Energy Melee Weapons and No P.S. Bonus, why?

[MaxxSterling]

So, I saw a sentence in I believe Aliens Unlimited, referencing Heroes Unlimited stating that Melee Energy weapons don't include a P.S. bonus because it is the energy doing the damage, not the force... Anyone else disagree with that statement, just curious? I mean I see the logic in force not applying at all, but then speed would still apply. Swing a laser over something quickly it may just score the surface, let it sit on an object and it'll burn through. However if the the energy has any kind of mass, force should apply, I would assume. Looking for opinions, examples to argue either direction. Did a search and didn't see anything like this come up.

[say652]

I support that. Mainly because most energy weapons cannot parry.
The ones that generate a field around a weapon should allow a ps bonus. Vibro swords yes add md ps, a laser sword, no it's a laser.

[Zer0 Kay]

Uh... Photons have mass

[say652]

So parry with a laser knife.

[Zer0 Kay]

No I didn't say that, I just said photons have mass. Not mutually inclusive. Laser no particle beam no unless they're using a magnetic bottle or gravity field, same with a plasma. But then you come up with issues of if the field can stop something how does the energy cause damage instead of just being a cool looking blunt weapon?

[say652]

Use a Neuro mace in one hand to parry and Neuro people and slice and dice with your favorite energy blade. Problem solved.

[Zer0 Kay]

Use a Neuro mace in one hand to parry and Neuro people and slice and dice with your favorite energy blade. Problem solved.

That's good, then there'd be no retaliation for the rest or the lightning attack. And THAT is why a Neuro sword should be used. May be low MDC but would only need to worry If you get tired. Maybe bladed boots like Soul Calibur V with Neuro on it and you have Thai kick boxing. Kick until stunned then move to behind an perform the kick that counts as a critical, called shot to head that should be a x4 (kick, behind, head) rinse, wash, repeat.

[PSI-Lence]

So, I saw a sentence in I believe Aliens Unlimited, referencing Heroes Unlimited stating that Melee Energy weapons don't include a P.S. bonus because it is the energy doing the damage, not the force... Anyone else disagree with that statement, just curious? I mean I see the logic in force not applying at all, but then speed would still apply. Swing a laser over something quickly it may just score the surface, let it sit on an object and it'll burn through. However if the the energy has any kind of mass, force should apply, I would assume. Looking for opinions, examples to argue either direction. Did a search and didn't see anything like this come up.

first off i don't really know HU but it's pretty much the same for rifts ...

so in real life yes a fast moving saber could do as much or more damage than a slower moving longsword but that's not represented in game all we have is PS = DMG for the most part

and a laser could work counter intuitively with slower doing more damage, but given that the speed of light (laser) is so fast human speed is really not going to be noticeable at all in the damage effect

as the laser/energy field leaves the emitter (presumably where the physical "blade" ends) it is under it's own power

much like shooting someone shooting a gun while running forward does not do any extra damage because once the bullet leaves the chamber it is under it's own force

if we take PS to equate to physical attack speed and strength for the purposes of doing damage and comparing a real life strike with something like a vibro blade that is physical not energy the blade would impact faster transferring more force, but equally be in contact for a shorter duration lowering the dmg, the 2 combined balance each other out in that case even if super speed is in effect

[drewkitty ~..~]

Its a matter of mass & momentum.. The more PS a char has the more momentum the weapon builds up because the mass is moving faster.

All the mass is in the handle of the energy melee weapon, not out at the tip on the weapon. so there is no momentum at the cutting edge so it only does the energy damage.

Note that the Aliens Unlimited energy melee weapons are more like those unconvertible weapons from Those movies then the wilks laser knife (really a laser rod with a range finding trigger of some sort), in that they can parry other melee weapons, even other AU energy melee weapons.

[PSI-Lence]

Its a matter of mass & momentum.. The more PS a char has the more momentum the weapon builds up because the mass is moving faster.

All the mass is in the handle of the energy melee weapon, not out at the tip on the weapon. so there is no momentum at the cutting edge so it only does the energy damage.

Note that the Aliens Unlimited energy melee weapons are more like those unconvertible weapons from Those movies then the wilks laser knife (really a laser rod with a range finding trigger of some sort), in that they can parry other melee weapons, even other AU energy melee weapons.

ok, i was thinking something more like kittani plasma weapons

so to revise a "laser sword" that has some containment field would still impact a target, but with very little force even if at great speed and only the blade portion would do damage

without a containment field if the laser only travels 2' aprox before self terminating it has no impact, but the beam itself is so fast that swinging it at a target regardless of speed or strength will not effect the dmg output since it is the beam of light doing the damage

in order to do less dmg on a slash it would need to be swung at greater than the speed of light so that after initial contact with the tip of the blade, the beam from the handle would not have time to travel the distance to the target before the swing was over

(with a weapon like that, more damage could be done for holding it to the target like a chainsaw, but instead of teeth cutting in, it would be beams of light

[eliakon]

The energy weapons here are basically Applied Phelmbotium.
These are handles that when active generate 'blades' of energy that are solid enough to cut and parry....but that don't get PS bonuses because they don't get PS bonuses.
The ones in Rifts are handles that when active generate 'blades' of energy that are solid enough to cut, but not parry and still don't get PS bonuses.

Both of them are basically the sci-fi/anime "beam saber" trope just of slightly different varieties. I would imagine that the PS was done because in HU the damage bonus for H2H can get pretty outrageous quickly and the blades already do a lot of damage.

[Alrik Vas]

I apply damage bonuses because it's better meta, honesty. I'd love to go on about technique, physics and the rest, but giving melee attacks extra damage helps them be powerful, which I think works out well for my game purposes.

[eliakon]

I apply damage bonuses because it's better meta, honesty. I'd love to go on about technique, physics and the rest, but giving melee attacks extra damage helps them be powerful, which I think works out well for my game purposes.

And that there is the absolute best possible reason in the world to apply a house rule When the Rules As Written and What Is Best For This Particular Game conflict the RAW should always lose....

[drewkitty ~..~]

[opinion]The one thing that annoys me is when the word "laser" indiscriminately replaces "energy" when talking about energy melee weapons.
Lasers are beams of coherent light that move out from the source. They form Beams or Blasts, not blades. And it riles up the "no this is not right/correct" hebigibies in the gut when people start talking about laser swords and such. Yes I know George L. described his energy sword as Lasers swords, but that was a first draft write down the idea thing for glowing energy swords.[/opinion]

Energy....this can mean many things that are 'not light', that can be contained in a containment field. So it is very easy to 'suspend disbelief' for the matter of the game. The usually mentioned suspect is that it is a Force Field contained mass of hot plasma.
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Kittani Plasma melee weapons: these are the most possible type of energy melee weapon (like the Zaku Heat Axe from the anime: MSG) in that it is a physical object that produces a field of contained plasma around it.