Curious about Wave Two

[Arkangel]

First time poster, long time lurker:

From what I've been reading, it seems that there is some confusion and bad blood about when Wave Two becomes available to those of us who missed out on the KS for Robotech Tactics. In addition, I've seen packages with official Palladium back cards for things like scaled jeeps, terrain, etc. I've asked around and haven't seen anything definite, but does anyone know when Wave Two minis are supposed to release to public sale? Will the items on the flash sale still be available after the sale? Also, why do I have to buy every single pack (not that I don't use them) of miniatures to get the Malcontents cards?

Robotech RPG Tactics is one of the coolest games I've played in a long time. In fact, it promoted us to hunt down the old Robotech RPG books and buy the new ones. I would like to have an official answer since the last one I received was "sometime after GenCon".

Thanks so much,

Shoot to thrill!!

[Morgan Vening]

First time poster, long time lurker:

From what I've been reading, it seems that there is some confusion and bad blood about when Wave Two becomes available to those of us who missed out on the KS for Robotech Tactics. In addition, I've seen packages with official Palladium back cards for things like scaled jeeps, terrain, etc. I've asked around and haven't seen anything definite, but does anyone know when Wave Two minis are supposed to release to public sale? Will the items on the flash sale still be available after the sale? Also, why do I have to buy every single pack (not that I don't use them) of miniatures to get the Malcontents cards?

Robotech RPG Tactics is one of the coolest games I've played in a long time. In fact, it promoted us to hunt down the old Robotech RPG books and buy the new ones. I would like to have an official answer since the last one I received was "sometime after GenCon".

Thanks so much,

Shoot to thrill!!

You're not likely to get an official answer. They've been woeful at predicting ETA's, and the backlash as a result has left them a little gunshy.

From official sources, though, around April, they were hoping for end of year, maybe November. The most recent claim has been "End of year, or Q1 (ie, end of March) next". But given the lack of progress, that looks to be at best another wishful claim. With only six months until that deadline, and no physical work*, and with Black Friday, Christmas, and Chinese New Year in there to screw things up, I think just prior to GenCon is the earliest it'll be done. On a personal opinion, I wouldn't wager on until at least this time next year.

* Before the models go to print, they go through the following steps. Digital Sculpts. 3D Print (optional). Sprue Breakdowns. Pre-Production Prototypes. Milling Molds. Test Sprues. Approval to Manufacture. Each of those steps beyond Milling Molds will require approval from at least Palladium (so take shipping times into account there too) and maybe Harmony Gold. As far as we've been told, none of these beyond the Digital Sculpts have been done for any of the 24+ models that are due in Wave 2. And I think given the dearth of news from them (and the threats of litigation), they'd be anxious to show some kind of physical proof if it existed.

But that's on PB's end. After that, you've got waiting for a slot to open at the manufacturers, the Print Run. Bulk Packaging. Shipment to the Dock. Customs. Travel by boat. Customs again. Shipment to Michigan. Specific batching. Sent out by post. That's going to take some time too. Best estimate is 10 weeks, based on information at hand. Best case is closer to 6 weeks, but that's not something that should be relied on, and is mostly out of PB's hands.

[Alpha 11]

They are putting a bunch of free stuff like unit cards and stuff on drivethrurpg. One of the big things that people have complained about is how many pieces it takes to put a model together. So they have been trying to reduce the amount, though with the amount of time that is past, they might be taking that part a bit to far. With the way things went with wave 1, I think, by what they have said in the past, they are trying to correct and make wave 2 perfect, and they have said, they were second guessing themselves. That has backed them into a corner, into doing nothing. Again, what they said, IIRR. Though they said they were going to chance that. Hence a lot of extra free stuff at that site. I also hope that means, there will be new news on the wave 2 models in the near future. And yes, I myself, am enjoying the game!

[Arkangel]

I see. Thanks for the info. However, I've seen pics of 3D modeled sculpts for the Officer pod with booster and the female power armor with the blaster rifles. Are those legit?

One other thing I saw was packs that had metal jeeps and "micronian" troops. The cards have the PB logo on it and the RPG Tactics name, but are these legit or bootleg? I ask because they would make for cool set decoration or even house rules for such things.

[Jorel]

those are from the campaign in 2013

[Arkangel]

2013?! Was that before the KS? Is there a way to get these models or are they gone the way of the do-do bird?

[Jorel]

I believe those pics are from the end of the KS campaign, possibly after. I'm not 100% sure on the dates but I recall seeing similar pics before the estimated delivery date.

[Forar]

2013?! Was that before the KS? Is there a way to get these models or are they gone the way of the do-do bird?

They said that they'd spent 6 months working on the project before the KS even launched, which is why the campaign had some pics released that were renders, and some that were simply concept art.

Some were used (as the basis for or converted to a compatible format) for 3D printed prototypes, which PB has shown off at the last 3 Gencons.

According to their KS updates, the figures are being worked on at the factory, with the renders we're seeing being used as guidelines for recreating the models due to file incompatibilities (though starting from scratch still seems like an awfully large leap compared to just finding whatever tool or tools might allow for conversion between formats, even if some clean up work was necessary).

So no, you didn't miss anything, none of those models have been available. According to PB they will be available by the end of March, but given that they have nothing tangible to show off since the last wave two update in February, I'm not optimistic about that.

With Wave One, even if we go from the time range when they announced swapping from full delivery to split waves, it still took them three quarters of a year to deliver on under a dozen figures (and that's being highly generous, more like a year or more). Wave two has two dozen figures, and over half a dozen resin pieces.

Doing two or three times the work in half the time (or less) seems characteristically overly optimistic. In the same way that announcing a dozen books for a 12 month release schedule when they've only delivered a handful per year always elicits a chuckle. And that's a field they've been in for over a third of a century.

Long story short, don't hold your breath.

Until they can show off some actual progress, it's all just vaporware.

[Alpha 11]

I see. Thanks for the info. However, I've seen pics of 3D modeled sculpts for the Officer pod with booster and the female power armor with the blaster rifles. Are those legit?

One other thing I saw was packs that had metal jeeps and "micronian" troops. The cards have the PB logo on it and the RPG Tactics name, but are these legit or bootleg? I ask because they would make for cool set decoration or even house rules for such things.

They are trying to get more conventional forces, like tanks, plans, helicopters, etc. into the game. These will come from GHQ, a US company in Min. Link: http://www.ghqmodels.com/pages/military/index.asp At this time, it looks like they are trying to get enough people to say they want them, before they begin production of the units. I'm all in for it. Pre ordered like a small battalion wroth of troops. GHQ already has all the models that will be used, so as soon as enough people say they want it, they can have them ready in a very short amount of time, and it doesn't interfere at all with the Wave 2. Can't find the link to the pre orders, but it's still pending in my order history, so I guess it's still on.

[Morgan Vening]

I see. Thanks for the info. However, I've seen pics of 3D modeled sculpts for the Officer pod with booster and the female power armor with the blaster rifles. Are those legit?

One other thing I saw was packs that had metal jeeps and "micronian" troops. The cards have the PB logo on it and the RPG Tactics name, but are these legit or bootleg? I ask because they would make for cool set decoration or even house rules for such things.

They are trying to get more conventional forces, like tanks, plans, helicopters, etc. into the game. These will come from GHQ, a US company in Min. Link: http://www.ghqmodels.com/pages/military/index.asp At this time, it looks like they are trying to get enough people to say they want them, before they begin production of the units. I'm all in for it. Pre ordered like a small battalion wroth of troops. GHQ already has all the models that will be used, so as soon as enough people say they want it, they can have them ready in a very short amount of time, and it doesn't interfere at all with the Wave 2. Can't find the link to the pre orders, but it's still pending in my order history, so I guess it's still on.

Started June 8th with a deadline of July 15, correction (Comanche retracted) issued June 14th along with a note that the stats were due the following week, deadline extended on July 16 until August 15th, and then August 27th they both gloss over the deadline neither opening, extending or finalizing a date, and added that now there's a minimum order count. The initial offerings seemed to indicate that it'd be printed to order for backers with leftovers from prize support, with a retail offering only being opened if demand was sufficient.

Given the only thing that's proprietary (ie, things that PB actually need to do) in the initial selection is the stat cards, the templates of which should be a simple matter, leaving the actual numbers. And given they admit that some people need those stats to make an order, but apparently don't want to do the stats if there's not enough orders, and around and round the carousel turns.

[Alpha 11]

I see. Thanks for the info. However, I've seen pics of 3D modeled sculpts for the Officer pod with booster and the female power armor with the blaster rifles. Are those legit?

One other thing I saw was packs that had metal jeeps and "micronian" troops. The cards have the PB logo on it and the RPG Tactics name, but are these legit or bootleg? I ask because they would make for cool set decoration or even house rules for such things.

They are trying to get more conventional forces, like tanks, plans, helicopters, etc. into the game. These will come from GHQ, a US company in Min. Link: http://www.ghqmodels.com/pages/military/index.asp At this time, it looks like they are trying to get enough people to say they want them, before they begin production of the units. I'm all in for it. Pre ordered like a small battalion wroth of troops. GHQ already has all the models that will be used, so as soon as enough people say they want it, they can have them ready in a very short amount of time, and it doesn't interfere at all with the Wave 2. Can't find the link to the pre orders, but it's still pending in my order history, so I guess it's still on.

Started June 8th with a deadline of July 15, correction (Comanche retracted) issued June 14th along with a note that the stats were due the following week, deadline extended on July 16 until August 15th, and then August 27th they both gloss over the deadline neither opening, extending or finalizing a date, and added that now there's a minimum order count. The initial offerings seemed to indicate that it'd be printed to order for backers with leftovers from prize support, with a retail offering only being opened if demand was sufficient.

Given the only thing that's proprietary (ie, things that PB actually need to do) in the initial selection is the stat cards, the templates of which should be a simple matter, leaving the actual numbers. And given they admit that some people need those stats to make an order, but apparently don't want to do the stats if there's not enough orders, and around and round the carousel turns.

So that's what happens. I still hope it happens though. Will add to the game.

[Forar]

Well, Mike made cards for conventional forces, and GHQ already produces conventional forces.

Whether or not they come in Officially Licensed RRT Blisters with Officially Licensed RRT Cards, you can already go to GHQ and pay equal or less than PB is asking for those units and use them right away if you feel so inclined.

[Alpha 11]

Well, Mike made cards for conventional forces, and GHQ already produces conventional forces.

Whether or not they come in Officially Licensed RRT Blisters with Officially Licensed RRT Cards, you can already go to GHQ and pay equal or less than PB is asking for those units and use them right away if you feel so inclined.

True, but you also got to include the cost for the blisters and cards. That is why the price is a little more. And ya, I've seen what Mike has done. He does good work.

[Arkangel]

Well for what it's worth, I would LOVE to see more conventional/micronian pieces in play. In fact, my extra missiles and MLOPs are being crafted into either stationary or mobile launchers (I haven't decided, but they would make great objective sites, and hazards). I saw PB advertising their convention exclusives. Dear PB: PLEASE KEEP THESE FOR SALE ON YOUR SITE!! While I'm not too thrilled about the price point, I don't have the ability to get to PB con sites. Since these heroes are illustrated in the base game, I think they should stay for sale.

Now there is one thing I'd like to add. I've backed roughly five KS projects. One never saw the light of day. I'm still waiting for my copy of the Traveller movie, and have only received two or three new books for Interface Zero 2.0. I didn't even know about the Robotech Tactical game until a month after the KS closed and begged them to let me donate a few hundred bucks to the cause, but I was denied. However, I am thrilled to see this bring produced. For those who've been gaming miniatures, and recall the ancient days of a small British company called Games Workshop and a game called Warhammer 40,000 Rogue Trader, you'll recall that getting anything from them besides plastic space Marines and metal orks was a genuine nightmare, if they even had them cast (I found a box of eldar pirates that became my army). It was expensive, frustrating, but we were patient. Mainly because we had no choice, and no internet to voice our opinions. I guess what I'm trying to say is I understand the frustrations. I wish they would've been able to get Wave 2 out when they thought they could. I'd love to see this line grow to cover the other eras (imagine what a Beta or Cyclone would be like against Invid? Or spartas tanks and Ajax Veritechs against bioroids?). That's why I think we need to support PB as best we can. I don't know what happened or why, but I've yet to do a KS that wasn't delayed and maybe that is unusual. I know they promised a 2014/early 2015 release for Wave 2. I'll wait patiently, growing my armies into true terrors. I still need another pack of pods, another pack of artillery pods, a couple more Valkyrie packs, and some more Destroids (imagine the look of terror on your opponents face when you reveal for Phalanx destroids, four Defenders, and four Tomahawks?). Besides, there are still special characters I need to model up for the UEEF and some Zentradi from available stock.

But I'd sure love to see micronian combat vehicles enter the fray. Hell, do up some Cat's Eye recon birds, refueling trucks, IFVs, rocket and limpet mine troops. That would be awesome.

[Morgan Vening]

Now there is one thing I'd like to add. I've backed roughly five KS projects. One never saw the light of day. I'm still waiting for my copy of the Traveller movie, and have only received two or three new books for Interface Zero 2.0. I didn't even know about the Robotech Tactical game until a month after the KS closed and begged them to let me donate a few hundred bucks to the cause, but I was denied. However, I am thrilled to see this bring produced. For those who've been gaming miniatures, and recall the ancient days of a small British company called Games Workshop and a game called Warhammer 40,000 Rogue Trader, you'll recall that getting anything from them besides plastic space Marines and metal orks was a genuine nightmare, if they even had them cast (I found a box of eldar pirates that became my army). It was expensive, frustrating, but we were patient. Mainly because we had no choice, and no internet to voice our opinions.

That's part of the problem. Going back 30 years, with the limited options, this probably wouldn't be an issue. But we're not in the 80's anymore. There are so many options available. Heck, I can't remember there ever being so many active (ie, not completely fringe) TTG's out there, with frequent releases and active communities. Which is why the delays are so much an issue. Every fiscal quarter that PB don't put something new up, shelf space at LGS and personal budgets get committed to other projects. Every refusal to actively hype something specific (rather than the nebulous "Oh, stuff's happening, we promise. We just can't describe it, it's so HOOOGE! But soon."), and get in front of at least the most legitimate criticisms, causes some enthusiasm to drop.

Sure, if PB's market is only going to be people who have a deep seated nostalgia for a 30yr old anime, fine. But I don't think that's financially viable as an audience. They need to be getting market share from the wider community. And there's currently nothing that makes RRT really stand out amongst the competition, other than nostalgia.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I understand the frustrations. I wish they would've been able to get Wave 2 out when they thought they could. I'd love to see this line grow to cover the other eras (imagine what a Beta or Cyclone would be like against Invid? Or spartas tanks and Ajax Veritechs against bioroids?). That's why I think we need to support PB as best we can. I don't know what happened or why, but I've yet to do a KS that wasn't delayed and maybe that is unusual. I know they promised a 2014/early 2015 release for Wave 2.

Yup. A lot of Kickstarters are delayed. There's a lot of evidence to show that. The differences though, are in how far along, and in how they handle it. If it was a matter of months, and backers were told that, there'd likely be nary a peep. But it's been essentially two years of "Just a couple more months". What was supposed to be Dec 2013 became Feb 2014, became W1 April 2014/W2 in Oct, became W1 July/W2 EO2014, became W1 Sept/W2 Unknown (pre GenCon2015), became W1 delivered Oct, became W2 EOY 2015, became W2 EOQ1 2016. And in all that time, they've shown very little to indicate that those timeframes should be taken at their word. As others have said, they've had more than half a year since the W2 Update, and have nothing, by their own admission, to show for it. Take three projects I'm in that are currently late.

Shadows of Brimstone - Wave 1 produced mostly on time, huge delays on the remaining product. Infrequent updates. But a crapload of progress shown that work is moving forward at a steady, if not brisk paste.
Fireteam Zero - Currently a year late, half that delay was a reboot for a foreign language. Copious amounts of information regarding rules, miniatures and in game content as things got done. Shipping imminently.
CAV - W1 shipped close to on time. W2 is delayed, but they've kept the backers relatively informed as to the reason. No ETA on finalization, but it looks to still this year.

What do these three projects have that PB doesn't? Well, besides the fact that they're not close to as late as PB, they've all made it a point to show progress. Delays with explanation, expectation and evidence of movement are ultimately more acceptable than delays with handwaving, fingerpointing and nothing to show for it.

Palladium need to produce, obviously. But failing that, they need to show they can. Not tell us they can. Show us. If they did that, I think you'ld see a large drop in the complaints. Heck, just the PDF cards for the MPA/FPA brought the noise down a bit, for quite a while.

I'll wait patiently, growing my armies into true terrors. I still need another pack of pods, another pack of artillery pods, a couple more Valkyrie packs, and some more Destroids (imagine the look of terror on your opponents face when you reveal for Phalanx destroids, four Defenders, and four Tomahawks?). Besides, there are still special characters I need to model up for the UEEF and some Zentradi from available stock.

But I'd sure love to see micronian combat vehicles enter the fray. Hell, do up some Cat's Eye recon birds, refueling trucks, IFVs, rocket and limpet mine troops. That would be awesome.

To steal from Forar,
Days since Conventional Vehicles stats were supposed to be up: 102.

This would have been one of the things I was talking about in my first para. If they'd release this stuff, it'd go to keeping it actively in people's minds, in a positive way. While some try to dismiss the critics as a minor, even insignificant number of backers/customers, that there is a very little on the positive side to talk about means that the vast majority of the silent backers (cause let's not kid ourselves, the publicly pro AND con RRT backers are an tiny number compared to the backers, and completely insignificant if accounting for POTENTIAL customers) from engaging. And that's what's needed to be tapped for this game to be anything but fringe, if not fail outright.

You said earlier "That's why I think we need to support PB as best we can.". That has to work both ways. As was shown with the PDF Cards thing, that quieted things a little. When PB do good updates, they're given credit by most (obviously not all). But when they let stuff go unanswered, the silence is filled with grumbling. And that's on them. People want engagement from the people responsible. Even your original post, you wanted "an official answer". People respond better to the creator/publisher/provider being active. Relying on fans to do the heavy lifting doesn't cut it.

Personally, I think PB would get more support from their base if they showed they deserved it. But I think given the self-inflicted hits to their credibility, it's incumbent on them to show that "restarting the conversation", and promising to do more, is more than empty rhetoric. They step up, in a meaningful and consistent manner, and I'm confidant that a portion of the playerbase will as well. But if they don't, why should anyone not already wholly committed (Hi Mike!) invest time and resources themselves?

[Arkangel]

I completely agree. If you want to keep your backers, and non-backers, interested despite set backs you need to give them something more tangible than words. I keep seeing pics of prototype miniatures, but zip from PB. This does seem odd. And you're right, it does need to go both ways. This latest sale was a great idea, but I'd like to keep seeing them on their regular store site. I know these are "convention exclusives" but many of us can't make it to those events. Goodwill from then like this would go a LONG way towards placating the masses.

But I, like many others, would like to know what's up. Is wave 2 in production? When will it be available for general sale? Do they have more than just digital renderings? Why are photos of prototype minis making it on the 'net and not on PB's site?

I love the idea of using micro armor for micronian forces. But while house rules are all well and good, you're right, we could use some stat cards. Plus I'd like to see some Robotech specific units like IFVs, choppers, missile carriers, and more. That would be awesome.

[Kryptt]

You have to understand according to Kevin wave two as of now is just talk since PB is exploring ways of reducing the high piece count. The new renders that were shown (again from Kevin's mouth to our ears) are by ND. The Chinese are supposed to copy those renders. They were included in the update to appease the backers. Unfortunately some backers and fans failed reading comprehension and think there renders from the manufacturer.

The conventional forces rules are done. Super fan Mike turned them in a long time ago. I guess there not out because Kev and crew have to test them out first or maybe he's too busy with rifts products.

This game is floundering not because of a few disgruntled backers on the net, but because there are a lot of people who are silent that either don't appreciate what's going on and/or the product itself doesn't live up to expectations. A few unhappy backers aren't holding a gun to anybody's head forcing them not to buy rrt. To say that rrt is failing as a TTG because of a "few haters" is a desperate attempt to deflect from the fact that rrt is failing as a game and a business venture.