Healer in Palladium Fantasy

tmbn · Unread post by **tmbn** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:54 pm

A healer could be a very important player character or NPC and be the difference from life and death with many great powers. But somehow I feel the Healer is underpowered and also just have spells to level 3. A Healer could be so much more. He should at least have spells like heal burns, restoration and remove course. Also ability to make healing potions. Also maybe mass healing and the ability to heal from a distance. I feel something is missing in this class.

I am playing 1 ed. Is there any books that have more information about the Healer or some reamp somewhere ? Or have you made some home rules to the healing class that maybe I could use in my game ? Looking forward to hear what you think of the Healer in Palladium Fantasy RPG.

The Dark Elf · Unread post by **The Dark Elf** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:00 pm

tmbn wrote:A healer could be a very important player character or NPC and be the difference from life and death with many great powers. But somehow I feel the Healer is underpowered and also just have spells to level 3. A Healer could be so much more. He should at least have spells like heal burns, restoration and remove course. Also ability to make healing potions. Also maybe mass healing and the ability to heal from a distance. I feel something is missing in this class.

I am playing 1 ed. Is there any books that have more information about the Healer or some reamp somewhere ? Or have you made some home rules to the healing class that maybe I could use in my game ? Looking forward to hear what you think of the Healer in Palladium Fantasy RPG.

We had a major PC who was a healer 1st edition. He quickly changed OCC (multiple) cos ur right - they suck power wise. Rarely used his abilities, a mind mage is Waaaaay better at healing and a priest did all the healing touches once ever other round (so full heals after every fight).
No house rules sorry. My advice is selct the OCC Mind Mage and allow the player to be " a healer" in his own right by selecting loads of healing psionics, then he get some other choices and super psionics for his adventuring aspects. The charatcer can be focused through those power selections, skill selections, backgrounds and plain old roleplaying even though on paper his OCC says otherwise.

kiralon · Unread post by **kiralon** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:52 pm

tmbn wrote:A healer could be a very important player character or NPC and be the difference from life and death with many great powers. But somehow I feel the Healer is underpowered and also just have spells to level 3. A Healer could be so much more. He should at least have spells like heal burns, restoration and remove course. Also ability to make healing potions. Also maybe mass healing and the ability to heal from a distance. I feel something is missing in this class.

I am playing 1 ed. Is there any books that have more information about the Healer or some reamp somewhere ? Or have you made some home rules to the healing class that maybe I could use in my game ? Looking forward to hear what you think of the Healer in Palladium Fantasy RPG.

I will see if I can dig it up but I made modifications to the healer and gave them lvl 4,5,6,7,8,9 abilities that mostly came out of second ed, I also picked some herbs that he could use the holistic medicine skill out of yin sloth jungles to make healing potions and cures. I also made some fetishes that he could use to increase his healing efficiency.
Remember his healing is superior to that of a priest in combat because he can do a healing touch per attack, where the priest does his every second round.
If the healer is serious about being a healer I will encourage you to get hands of the healer from MERP as it has an awesome amount of herbs to use with holistic medicine. Morrowinds potion making also meshes well if you want to use that too.

SittingBull · Unread post by **SittingBull** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:46 pm

MERP?

kiralon · Unread post by **kiralon** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:29 pm

Middle Earth RolePlaying
The rolemaster version by I.C.E

grab arms law and claw law if you want the most awesome character killing critical tables.

eg
◾Foe’s head is but a charred stump. Sadly, foe cannot handle the loss and he dies instantly. Add +10 to your next roll. (C Heat Critical – 100)
◾Blast annihilates foe’s entire skeleton. Foe is reduced to a gelatinous pulp. Try a spatula. (E Impact Critical – 100)
◾Insulting strike to foe’s nose. If foe has full helm, he is stunned 2 rounds. If not, foe has shredded nose, takes +3 hits per round and is stunned for 9 rounds (A Tiny Animal Critical – 96-99)
◾Shot through both ears proves effective. Foe dies instantly. Add +20 to your next 6 rounds. Pretty shot (C Puncture Critical – 100)
◾There are no children in foe’s future. Groin shot leaves all within 15′ groaning in sympathy for foe (everyone stunned for one round). (E Ballistic Armor Piercing Critical – 66)

Glistam · Unread post by **Glistam** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:47 pm

Is this a class represented in the second edition?

SittingBull · Unread post by **SittingBull** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:57 pm

Does this 'being able to heal every action' cost points?

kiralon · Unread post by **kiralon** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:59 pm

Glistam wrote:Is this a class represented in the second edition?

Its 2nd ed version is the Psi-Healer, but unlike first ed, second eds psi abilities aren't level limited

Hotrod · Unread post by **Hotrod** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:59 am

The second edition psi-healer is pretty underwhelming, actually. With the meditation time required for all healing psionics, some of which take many hours, plus the fact that these powers are available to just about any psionic character (and all of them could be acquired by any character with major psionics), plus the fact that 2nd edition healers can't resurrect anyone, ever, it's the psionic class equivalent of a vagabond. In fact, the only practical difference between a peasant with major psionics in healing and a psi-healer is that the psi-healer gets more ISP to play with and a few extra skills.

If you want to be a healer, you can be far more effective as a priest, druid, wizard, warlock, summoner, or psi-mystic, all of whom can acquire healing powers that blow 2ed psi-healers away, and some of which can start with those powers.

Glistam · Unread post by **Glistam** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:42 am

Hotrod wrote:The second edition psi-healer is pretty underwhelming, actually. With the meditation time required for all healing psionics, some of which take many hours, plus the fact that these powers are available to just about any psionic character (and all of them could be acquired by any character with major psionics), plus the fact that 2nd edition healers can't resurrect anyone, ever, it's the psionic class equivalent of a vagabond. In fact, the only practical difference between a peasant with major psionics in healing and a psi-healer is that the psi-healer gets more ISP to play with and a few extra skills.

If you want to be a healer, you can be far more effective as a priest, druid, wizard, warlock, summoner, or psi-mystic, all of whom can acquire healing powers that blow 2ed psi-healers away, and some of which can start with those powers.

Yeah, when I started looking into how I could make a decent healer in Palladium 2nd Edition I discovered the same thing. That was a bit frustrating. But I didn't mean to derail this topic, which is about the first edition "Healer".

eliakon · Unread post by **eliakon** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:04 pm

First edition we had a Healer that was pretty useful. Due to some.....issues our group didn't have any priests which ruled out the unlimited healing touches. The healer was very useful, especially since socially he did not have the prejudice against psychics. The main thing about it was that the Healer (and the Diabolist, and a few others) ended up having to do a lot of social RP because they didn't have the same sort of raw power as some of the others. But its a lot easier to get invited to the princesses ball when your a known healer than when your an assassin.......

kiralon · Unread post by **kiralon** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:29 pm

eliakon wrote:First edition we had a Healer that was pretty useful. Due to some.....issues our group didn't have any priests which ruled out the unlimited healing touches. The healer was very useful, especially since socially he did not have the prejudice against psychics. The main thing about it was that the Healer (and the Diabolist, and a few others) ended up having to do a lot of social RP because they didn't have the same sort of raw power as some of the others. But its a lot easier to get invited to the princesses ball when your a known healer than when your an assassin.......

+1 This, healers often tend the poor so they can get free meals, lodgings and that sort of thing, and even the rich need them sometimes as I tend to let the healers be better healers then priests.

Lukterran · Unread post by **Lukterran** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:36 pm

This is something that everyone that plays Palladium Fantasy knows, that after 2nd edition the changes basically killed the classes usefulness. Why doesn't palladium books fix this terrible mistake and make the class actually good option that people would like to play.

I for one loved that the I.S.P. from 1st edition was based off of P.E. instead of M.E. Instead of ever OCC being basically based off of just 3 attributes with all other 5 being secondary. Healer also needs a restoration and resurrection. I also think healer should be more of a hybrid class of both clergy+psychic. In 2nd Ed. the Healer was removed from clergy category.

eliakon · Unread post by **eliakon** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:33 pm

I have done some various things with house rules over the years to make the Healer more attractive in (both in first and second edition). A lot of the mods were player/group/game specific to allow THAT healer to be useful in THAT game and were stuff that THAT group thought was good/fair.

Which is the trick with house rules. Its really hard to make ones that will work for everyone as 'alternate universal rules' but it is easy to make ones that will work as needed.

kiralon · Unread post by **kiralon** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:36 pm

Lvl 4
Psychic Diagnosis: Requires light trance for 2d4 rounds, diagnoses physical and mental issues with patient %99, also detects curses and enchantments %12 per level of healer. (5 ISP) Range: Touch.
Superior Healer: Adds level to healing potions made and healing touch.

Lvl 5
Speedheal: Requires Trance for 1d6 rounds then doubles all healing from all natural and magic healing rates including potions and clergy healing. (10 isp) Range: Self or Other by Touch. Duration: 1 hour per level of healer.

Healing Aura: anyone who is within 20ft of the healer gets 2d6+2 hp when cast and then at the start of every round thereafter.
(15 ISP), Range 20ft, Duration 1 round per level of healer.

Lvl 6
Psychic Surgery: Allows the Healer to do Psychic Surgery to remove foreign objects, set broken bones and remove organs and stich you back up again. Requires Psychic diagnosis to be done first. Takes 1d4 minutes per procedure.
If done on a patient who has recently passed (no more than 2 minutes have passed) it has a %10 per level of returning them to life.
Has %12 chance per level to restore limbs that have been cut off, but removed limb is required.
Bones set take 1 days to heal for small bones and 3 days for large bones.
Has %2 chance per level to restore sight, can only be tried once.
(20 ISP) Range: Touch. Duration: Varies

Lvl 7
Life Surge: The Healer can transfer some of his health to increase the healing of his subject. Every 2hp transferred gives his target 3hp (speedheal does work on this power), this can give his target more HP temporarily then they normally have. These temporary HP last for 1 hour per level, and are the first to be removed when subject is damaged. While subject has life surge HP over his maximum no healer healing powers will work on him except psychic surgery, negate toxins and soothing touch.
(1 ISP per 2hp transferred, cannot spend more than 1 ISP per level per casting - so a level 7 healer can spend 7 isp and give 21hp or 42hp on a speedhealed person and lose 14hp themselves) Range touch. Duration up to 1hr per level.
Takes 1 action to do, and both parties have to be willing

Lvl 8
Hibernate: The healer can go into a self induced coma that lasts 1 week per level, he doesn't need to eat or drink (but will wake up hungry and thirsty), and he requires %99 less oxygen to breathe. However, for each week of hibernation the healer gets back 1 permanent isp expended with Resurrection. Hibernation also gives the impression of death, so someone finding a hibernating healer has to make a medical check at -%70 to figure out that the hibernating person is alive. See aura and other detection type spells and abilities will reveal life straight away.

Veknironth · Unread post by **Veknironth** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:30 pm

Well, I find that very few players want to play a healer, which might be why the class is so poorly fleshed out. People want to kill, crush, and destroy not to mend and grant succor. While the Psi-Healer is a little more useful than the 1st Edition Healer, what with the physical Psionics it can have, it still isn't much of a superior healer. You could take a mind mage, and select all the healing powers and still be able to grab those juicy Super Psionic powers. Hell, just rolling a Major Psionics character can give you 6 Healing powers, which is about all you need. (Healing Touch, Attack Disease, Exorcism, Lust for Life, Bio-Regeneration for oneself, and Psychic Purification). The way the damage works, being essentially a point system, you don't actually need Psyhic Diagnosis or Psychic surgery. You just hit the patient with Healing Touch and let the points do all the work. Characters "feel" pain but since the player can merely say "Grit my teeth and bear it" Deaden Pain isn't necessary. Suppress Fear, Transfer I.S.P., Detect Psionics, Induce Sleep you also don't need at all to heal. Resist Fatigue might come in handy, but that only affects the healer.

What would make healers better is if there were more variation of wounds. If there were things that Healing Touch/Heal Wounds/The other Healing Touch/The other other Healing Touch wouldn't completely heal. As it is, if you have a scratch, use Healing Touch. Headahce? Use Healing Touch. You've been stabbed, use Healing Touch. If you are concussed, use Healing Touch. Severed limb, use Healing Touch. If you have a Priest handy, Healing Touch is going to fix just about everything. 2d4 every other round, with no use of PPE or ISP. There's no reason your group should ever go from one encounter to another without being at full HP. Also, no would is mortal with a priest around, unless it kills instantly or causes bleeding in excess of 1d4/round.

-Vek
"That Priest Healing Touch is out of whack. Actually, the whole OCC needs work."

kiralon · Unread post by **kiralon** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:00 pm

Veknironth wrote:-Vek
"That Priest Healing Touch is out of whack. Actually, the whole OCC needs work."

Truly, if it wasn't so much bookwork id have the priestly healing touch only work once per wound, so if a wound was more then the healing touch could fix you still need other healing. Priests make grinding down a party slowly impossible as they will always be on full hp if you give em 30 minutes rest.

A quick fix is you can only healing touch once per person, per level per day, so if you are level 5 you can only do 5 healing touches on a person per day.
but I play that healing touch can only heal wounds, it wont heal broken bones/strained tendons, and I have crits that break bones/strain tendons etc if you aren't wearing rigid armour (Makes full plate better too)

I also play priests as martial or magical, if you want to cast spells you can only take hth non men at arms, if you want to fight you can take up to hth soldier depending on your god, but you don't get to pick a spell per level.

Tor · Unread post by **Tor** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:15 pm

Priests aren't reliable!

The Dark Elf wrote:a mind mage is Waaaaay better at healing

How so? I did the math on that and the Healer OCC healing touch costs less than the psionic version if I recall.

Also: can a mind mage resurrect people?

One bonus would be that since the Healer OCC abilities are non-psionic that they wouldn't register and could operate in places that discriminate against psychics.

Also, the healer OCC may be available to races who don't have psychic abilities, since their ISP fuels non-psionic powers.

Glistam wrote:Is this a class represented in the second edition?

Nope, they replaced it with a "Psi-Healer" who uses boring psychic powers to heal, totally different.

Veknironth · Unread post by **Veknironth** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:01 pm

Well, Kiralon, we did the EXACT same thing with priest healing. 1 touch per level/day. I worry about hijacking the healer thread with priest talk, but the other problem is the spells they have. I don't like that there's a set list. You can have a priest worship a god and have spell knowledge the god doesn't, even though that magic is supposed to come from the god. I was disappointed that Dragons and Gods didn't have a list of what powers each god can grant its priests so they would all be different.

-Vek
"No more clergy discussions from me here."

Hotrod · Unread post by **Hotrod** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:51 pm

Another oddity is that warlocks gain the ability to insta-revive people from comas (Flame of Life, Level 6) and/or resurrect without any permanent cost(Breath of Life, Level 5), while the 1st ed. Wizards can acquire an impressive array of healing spells, and summoners can do some serious healing inside a Healing Power Circle and resurrect with a Wonder Power Circle (granted, they have to burn a unicorn horn, but still!). 1st edition Healsers have to permanently lose ISP to resurrect, and 2nd edition psi-healers have no resurrection or auto-revive abilities whatsoever.

Lukterran · Unread post by **Lukterran** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 3:47 pm

Veknironth wrote:Well, I find that very few players want to play a healer, which might be why the class is so poorly fleshed out. People want to kill, crush, and destroy not to mend and grant succor. While the Psi-Healer is a little more useful than the 1st Edition Healer, what with the physical Psionics it can have, it still isn't much of a superior healer. You could take a mind mage, and select all the healing powers and still be able to grab those juicy Super Psionic powers. Hell, just rolling a Major Psionics character can give you 6 Healing powers, which is about all you need. (Healing Touch, Attack Disease, Exorcism, Lust for Life, Bio-Regeneration for oneself, and Psychic Purification). The way the damage works, being essentially a point system, you don't actually need Psyhic Diagnosis or Psychic surgery. You just hit the patient with Healing Touch and let the points do all the work. Characters "feel" pain but since the player can merely say "Grit my teeth and bear it" Deaden Pain isn't necessary. Suppress Fear, Transfer I.S.P., Detect Psionics, Induce Sleep you also don't need at all to heal. Resist Fatigue might come in handy, but that only affects the healer.

What would make healers better is if there were more variation of wounds. If there were things that Healing Touch/Heal Wounds/The other Healing Touch/The other other Healing Touch wouldn't completely heal. As it is, if you have a scratch, use Healing Touch. Headahce? Use Healing Touch. You've been stabbed, use Healing Touch. If you are concussed, use Healing Touch. Severed limb, use Healing Touch. If you have a Priest handy, Healing Touch is going to fix just about everything. 2d4 every other round, with no use of PPE or ISP. There's no reason your group should ever go from one encounter to another without being at full HP. Also, no would is mortal with a priest around, unless it kills instantly or causes bleeding in excess of 1d4/round.

-Vek
"That Priest Healing Touch is out of whack. Actually, the whole OCC needs work."

That all depends on what kind of GM you have. If he is a by the book "Roll"playing gamemaster or a smart and ingenious "Role"playing GM. If you go by the book and just strictly stick to a point based system you are correct. However, if I GM puts realism into his game and considers how much damage and axe chop to the skull actually does a simple healing touch ain't going to cut it.

Veknironth · Unread post by **Veknironth** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 3:52 pm

Well, yes, GM's do make a big difference. However, all I can do is address the book rules as I am unfamiliar with everyone's GM.

-Vek
"House rules rule!"

The Dark Elf · Unread post by **The Dark Elf** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:31 pm

Tor wrote:Priests aren't reliable!
The Dark Elf wrote:a mind mage is Waaaaay better at healing

How so? I did the math on that and the Healer OCC healing touch costs less than the psionic version if I recall.

Ok so Im looking at versatility by way of the quantity of powers they can get to select each level and if they focus on selecting healing ones. I'll change to to a little "waay" better... :wink:

ShadowHawk · Unread post by **ShadowHawk** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:10 pm

there is a webpage...if I can find it. but I need to go to work, so I can't do it right now.

Torval · Unread post by **Torval** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:44 am

I only played 1E one time many years ago and never got to look through the book. I am always fascinated by the idea of the 1E healer from the many times it is mentioned on these forums as being superior to the 2E Psi-Healer. Can someone give a very high level summary of the types of healing the 1E healer was capable of as well as the energy source used? Were they able to resurrect?

Hotrod · Unread post by **Hotrod** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:20 pm

The 1st Edition healer used ISP, but wasn't psionic in the strictest sense. Healer ISP was more akin to PPE. 1st Edition Healers could use their powers at any time without the ludicrous "trance times" required for 2nd Edition healing psionics (1D6 hours for "increased healing" being a particularly outrageous example). 1st Edition healers could resurrect characters (at the permanent cost of ISP), while the best a 2nd Edition healer can do is dig a grave.

I wrote up a Psi-Healer OCC a while ago for Rifts that had worthwhile powers and abilities. All trance times were eliminated, all healing psionics could be performed at half the ISP cost, and all abilities that took time had their time cut in half (exorcism, purification). They could also remove curses, perform cosmetic surgery to reduce/eliminate scarring, re-attach limbs, and experienced healers could even, perform organ transplants and, over time, re-grow limbs (but not complex internal organs). I'm not saying that all that should be part of the healing-focused OCC of PF, but they ought to have something to set them apart.

ShadowHawk · Unread post by **ShadowHawk** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:36 pm

http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/vortexsha ... ealer.html and http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/vortexsha ... magic.html

Tor · Unread post by **Tor** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:20 pm

Veknironth wrote:You can have a priest worship a god and have spell knowledge the god doesn't, even though that magic is supposed to come from the god.

Maybe in 2nd ed, but since we're doing 1st ed comparison with the Healer OCC (vs Psi-Healer PCC) it's worth noting that the priest OCC has also changed.

PRPGp140 under "Choosing and gaining spells" said:

The spells available are limited by the deity's knowledge. Thus, if a god only knows spell magic levels one through five, the priest can never be given a spell higher than fifth level, even if the priest is tenth level. The god can only provide what he knows.

PRPGp100 am not seeing any restrictions like this for the Witch though, which would've been worth noting since some Demon Lords had no spells at all (Kubera-Loe, Mictla, Mania, Diabolus) which seems like an advantage to witchery over priesthood.

In fact, since there weren't any rules for spell creation, you could theorize that all spells originated from witches

MADMANMIKE · Unread post by **MADMANMIKE** » Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:25 pm

I've always ignored the Trance times in my games; meditation is for replenishing one's energy, not focusing it for use in the first place. The Healer and the Shaman class were both hobbled with this build-up time..

kiralon · Unread post by **kiralon** » Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:33 pm

MADMANMIKE wrote:I've always ignored the Trance times in my games; meditation is for replenishing one's energy, not focusing it for use in the first place. The Healer and the Shaman class were both hobbled with this build-up time..

I'm guessing you didn't have a healer who tried to pull the brains\hearts out of his opponents with psychic surgery then. First Ed psychic surgery has no prep time, just a touch prerequisite, and no saving throw.

Hotrod · Unread post by **Hotrod** » Sun Sep 27, 2015 10:05 pm

kiralon wrote:
MADMANMIKE wrote:I've always ignored the Trance times in my games; meditation is for replenishing one's energy, not focusing it for use in the first place. The Healer and the Shaman class were both hobbled with this build-up time..

I'm guessing you didn't have a healer who tried to pull the brains\hearts out of his opponents with psychic surgery then. First Ed psychic surgery has no prep time, just a touch prerequisite, and no saving throw.

Genius!

kiralon · Unread post by **kiralon** » Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:11 pm

Hotrod wrote:
kiralon wrote:
MADMANMIKE wrote:I've always ignored the Trance times in my games; meditation is for replenishing one's energy, not focusing it for use in the first place. The Healer and the Shaman class were both hobbled with this build-up time..

I'm guessing you didn't have a healer who tried to pull the brains\hearts out of his opponents with psychic surgery then. First Ed psychic surgery has no prep time, just a touch prerequisite, and no saving throw.

Genius!

Not really, every player who got the power tried it. But those who lived by the sword psychic surgery died by the sword Psychic Surgery, and after a few quick character deaths to it agreed that it should take some time to do.

Quickest way to kill necrom is to remove his brain with psychic surgery.

Library Ogre · Unread post by **Library Ogre** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:22 pm

kiralon wrote:
Hotrod wrote:
kiralon wrote:
MADMANMIKE wrote:I've always ignored the Trance times in my games; meditation is for replenishing one's energy, not focusing it for use in the first place. The Healer and the Shaman class were both hobbled with this build-up time..

I'm guessing you didn't have a healer who tried to pull the brains\hearts out of his opponents with psychic surgery then. First Ed psychic surgery has no prep time, just a touch prerequisite, and no saving throw.

Genius!

Not really, every player who got the power tried it. But those who lived by the sword psychic surgery died by the sword Psychic Surgery, and after a few quick character deaths to it agreed that it should take some time to do.

Quickest way to kill necrom is to remove his brain with psychic surgery.

Or pull out the heart of a deity. Seen it happen. My only defense was I was a young GM and the Gods section seemed like a bestiary.

I don't have a problem with the trance times, beyond the usual Palladium problem of "We wrote these in minutes, we dropped melees down to a quarter of a minute, then gave everyone 2-4 times the number of attacks they had before... but kept the times in minutes."

If one were to buff up the Psi-healer, I would suggest a way to reduce trance times, and maybe some healer-specific powers that could be learned at various levels that serve as super versions of usual healing powers (a Super Healing Touch to go along with Super Bio-regeneration, for example, or a Lust for Life with some oomph behind it).

Lukterran · Unread post by **Lukterran** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:42 pm

Mark Hall wrote:
kiralon wrote:
Hotrod wrote:
kiralon wrote:
MADMANMIKE wrote:I've always ignored the Trance times in my games; meditation is for replenishing one's energy, not focusing it for use in the first place. The Healer and the Shaman class were both hobbled with this build-up time..

I'm guessing you didn't have a healer who tried to pull the brains\hearts out of his opponents with psychic surgery then. First Ed psychic surgery has no prep time, just a touch prerequisite, and no saving throw.

Genius!

Not really, every player who got the power tried it. But those who lived by the sword psychic surgery died by the sword Psychic Surgery, and after a few quick character deaths to it agreed that it should take some time to do.

Quickest way to kill necrom is to remove his brain with psychic surgery.

Or pull out the heart of a deity. Seen it happen. My only defense was I was a young GM and the Gods section seemed like a bestiary.

I don't have a problem with the trance times, beyond the usual Palladium problem of "We wrote these in minutes, we dropped melees down to a quarter of a minute, then gave everyone 2-4 times the number of attacks they had before... but kept the times in minutes."

If one were to buff up the Psi-healer, I would suggest a way to reduce trance times, and maybe some healer-specific powers that could be learned at various levels that serve as super versions of usual healing powers (a Super Healing Touch to go along with Super Bio-regeneration, for example, or a Lust for Life with some oomph behind it).

Not to mention Restoration and Resurrection are probably also needed to fully fill the role of the class properly.

Library Ogre · Unread post by **Library Ogre** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:59 pm

Lukterran wrote:Not to mention Restoration and Resurrection are probably also needed to fully fill the role of the class properly.

Maybe. I think you can do a lot with a healer who can't bring people back to life, and leave things like that to the truly powerful beings.

Tor · Unread post by **Tor** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:37 pm

Even if I could, I probably wouldn't unless I was super-attached to the person or offered a huge amount of money for it. In the long run you can save more people by having all your ISP available than you can if you bring a limited amount of people back to life and burn it off. There's probably in-universe examples of Psi-Healers who abused this and became useless and had to watch a bunch of people bleed to death and stuff because they were too committed to respawning people. Sacrifice 100 to save 10.

Hotrod · Unread post by **Hotrod** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:58 am

A related question: how often do characters die outright in your games or lose limbs/eyes? It seems reasonable that most deaths aren't insta-deaths. While decapitation, falling into a pool of lava, or getting eaten is generally insta-fatal, those should be the exception, while the norm should be something like "Sir Jim-Bob has fallen unconscious from his wounds! If I hurry, I can stop him from bleeding out and save him!"

Torval · Unread post by **Torval** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:56 am

MADMANMIKE wrote:I've always ignored the Trance times in my games; meditation is for replenishing one's energy, not focusing it for use in the first place. The Healer and the Shaman class were both hobbled with this build-up time..

For most psionics, we also ignore trance times(not talking about just healing abilities here). When I think of psionic powers, I think of something that can be done with a thought and the proper expenditure of energy. I will admit that removing the trance times from abilities does make them stronger than they are in the book, especially during combat; however, I feel like it reflects the ideal of the character better. Not to mention, they run out of ISP a lot faster - which I think is also a good reflection of the ideal psionic user in my head. They have incredible power that they can use at a single thought but they can't do it forever.

As a player, it gives a fun twist to the character too because you have to balance power with longevity.

DarkerSavant · Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:35 am

Summoners and Circle Magic are pretty potent healing. Healing Power Circle is hard to beat.

Good list here, http://www.palladiumbooks.com/forums/vi ... view=print

Axelmania · Unread post by **Axelmania** » Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:21 am

The problem there is access. You can't just automatically learn Power Circles leveling up, you have to discover it in some dangerous temple or pay huge amounts of money for it or incur a great debt from some knowledgeable being.

The problem is the same for Wizards, you're not just going to get those spells. Well I guess you can now but even then, you'd have to be very high level. Originally they would have to risk their sanity using the cauldron to maybe get the access, or else try to reverse-engineer a scroll (I hope you have Mystic Portal) or pay huge sums to be taught it.

It is true about Air Warlocks' Breath of Life being much better. I bet any Healer who learns of this would probably want to go multi-class as an Air Warlock, and for the most part there wasn't anything preventing that in first edition. Some races could learn Clergy OCCs like the Healer but not Men of Magic OCCs like Warlocks though. Healers are also more immediately useful since you need to be a higher-level Warlock to get those healing spells.