Simple straight question, straight answer required

[wilycoyote]

As near as dangit, three months ago we were told that Wayne was collating the progress on all of the outstanding models in Wave 2 - I include the "resins" in this. Surely this it has been long enough tp preapre this

To date we have seen nothing of this, except for the bland"we are working on reducubg parts count".

Now the straight question, "Can you post these promised details now and if not why?"

P.S If someone points out that they do not read the comments here , can some kind mod shify the question upwards oand onwards - thanks

[bielmic]

You'll have to just make due for the forseeable future with one or two vague sentences about progress when they get around to doing their monthly update. Except for one or two updates this year, that's all we've gotten regarding wave 2.

[Lori]

You could always call the offices.

[wilycoyote]

Lori.

I am a UK rsident and being asked to call the US direct, when the cheaper and easier medium of the "Interweb" is available should not be necessary.

However, this is not just for me, we were promised better communication in the geat epic update months ago. A specific promise was made that Wayne would collate and let us know the status of evry model to date. Three months later we have had nothing, except for the weekly sales pitch. Note resins have not been mentioned at all since the KS was funded - go figure

It is really simpe - at least to my mind - you are running a million dollar plus project - you must be working to a defined schedule/project plan. Therefore how hard is it really to show a basic chart of each model and the milestones it is at or has passed through on its way to production? Of course pics would be nice, but tangible sign of progress will also help.

If PB have their finger on the pulse of this project then this should have been seen months ago and probably updated a couple of times since then. If I am honest it should be an easy update for them to ensure goes out and keeps the baying wolves away from the door.

[Forar]

I'm with Wily on this one. There's a thing called a Gantt Chart that project managers here at work use for large scale projects. Indicates what is being worked on (figures), what stage it's at (render, pre-production prototype, ready for mold milling, etc), a percentage of completion (if applicable/useful), and even indicates who is responsible for the work so people know who to reach out to for status/progress updates.

It's not a particularly advanced tool, but it's incredibly helpful in keeping everyone on the same page.

With Wave One we were told a lot about how little PB knew and relied on others and were burned for it. Not a great thing to hear, but okay, even if I accept that, they *know* now that it's vital to keep track of everything. Not doing so is how so many things were unknown, unfinished, and flew under the radar (even little details like the blast template not being painted).

With roughly two dozen figures being worked on, over half a dozen resin pieces, card printing, and whatever other odds and ends are being worked on, it's an awful lot to keep track of on cocktail napkins or in someone's head. While I recognize that this is a lot of work for the company/personnel involved, it's not heartening to take 3 months (and counting) just to find out where everything is on the project timeline.

I'm not expecting Wayne to be able to rattle off every one of those off the top of his head, but hell, even a dozen items a week for 3 weeks would be preferable. If he's just waiting on a few items, it'd buy time. If he's waiting for the status of a lot of items, they are not nearly as far along as they've been claiming.

And as the weeks tick by, I suspect that the community reaction will be measurably less charitable if it's the latter.

[Lori]

Lori.

I am a UK rsident and being asked to call the US direct, when the cheaper and easier medium of the "Interweb" is available should not be necessary.

However, this is not just for me, we were promised better communication in the geat epic update months ago. A specific promise was made that Wayne would collate and let us know the status of evry model to date. Three months later we have had nothing, except for the weekly sales pitch. Note resins have not been mentioned at all since the KS was funded - go figure

It is really simpe - at least to my mind - you are running a million dollar plus project - you must be working to a defined schedule/project plan. Therefore how hard is it really to show a basic chart of each model and the milestones it is at or has passed through on its way to production? Of course pics would be nice, but tangible sign of progress will also help.

If PB have their finger on the pulse of this project then this should have been seen months ago and probably updated a couple of times since then. If I am honest it should be an easy update for them to ensure goes out and keeps the baying wolves away from the door.

Wilycoyote,

It is unfortunate that the Kickstarter has taken as long as it has. The question is what are you doing about it? Palladium Staff doesn't respond here. Understand, I'm not attacking you-and maybe you'd prefer this more passive form of protest-which is perfectly acceptable. I've had my problems with Palladium and I let them know the why and the how. I was banned from this forum for my actions and all of my posts deleted. I have since apologized and been aloud to come back to the forum. I did not apologize because I didn't have issue with Palladium-I apologized because airing it on this forum was wrong.

I want to say that even though I took the wrong actions-I at least put in the effort.

I'm not telling you to do something to get banned, what would be the point...

However, there are ways you could put in more effort. Calling the offices is one way. My wife is from the Philippines and makes calls home from the united states via Skype and telephone all the time-it's really not the expensive.

My personal opinion on the matter is that passive complaining is sort of pointless... Not because of the complaint (which may or may not have validity) but just that nothing will come of it. In other words you're wasting you're own time. As I said Palladium won't respond on here.

If your goal is to bring some attention to what you (and others) perceive as a problem then I'd say you're accomplishing you're goal. If it is to really get an answer to you're questions, that's just not going to happen...

I wish you luck.

[Morgan Vening]

My personal opinion on the matter is that passive complaining is sort of pointless... Not because of the complaint (which may or may not have validity) but just that nothing will come of it. In other words you're wasting you're own time. As I said Palladium won't respond on here.

To horribly misquote Edmund Burke, "All that is necessary for the triumph of incompetence is that a disgruntled backer do nothing.".

If PB won't respond publicly (here, the Kickstarter, Facebook), then they have to accept that they'll get routinely dinged reputation-wise as a consequence. It's unlikely to change, but it's never gonna change if people keep their mouths (fingers?) shut.

Elsewise, you might have Palladium believing silence grants approval. They have before. The GenCon vote "rigging" was predicated on that concept, and we saw how that went over. And there's a fair number of backers who don't consider Palladium's silence on the issue to be an acceptable situation. When the only realistic communication option remaining (if he doesn't have access to Skype, for example) is ineffectual complaining, ineffectual complaining is what you do.

[Lori]

My personal opinion on the matter is that passive complaining is sort of pointless... Not because of the complaint (which may or may not have validity) but just that nothing will come of it. In other words you're wasting you're own time. As I said Palladium won't respond on here.

To horribly misquote Edmund Burke, "All that is necessary for the triumph of incompetence is that a disgruntled backer do nothing.".

If PB won't respond publicly (here, the Kickstarter, Facebook), then they have to accept that they'll get routinely dinged reputation-wise as a consequence. It's unlikely to change, but it's never gonna change if people keep their mouths (fingers?) shut.

Elsewise, you might have Palladium believing silence grants approval. They have before. The GenCon vote "rigging" was predicated on that concept, and we saw how that went over. And there's a fair number of backers who don't consider Palladium's silence on the issue to be an acceptable situation. When the only realistic communication option remaining (if he doesn't have access to Skype, for example) is ineffectual complaining, ineffectual complaining is what you do.

I guess that's what I don't understand...

Someone knows that the method they are complaining is pointless. Pointless to receive a response or resolution. Why?

The only reason to do it is to bring attention to the problem. Not what the OP claims which is to seek answers to the (legit) questions they have. In a different light the questions are essentially flame baiting the company that owns these forums. The only way to seek answers is to put forth the effort. If you feel you have been ripped off by Palladium you should drop the premise of BS and say, "I have been ripped off." Or whatever situation fits you're fancy... As in what you perceive has been transpired...

Again the only effective way to do this is to spend some $ and drop them a line.

Personally, I think all of these threads asking for answers about RTT should be purged. There is no point to them. They won't be answered. And as this poster pointed out it is just a means of ineffectual complaining... Why waste the thread space?

My point is made.

[McPherson]

As a fellow UK resident I would say that at least from my perspective he's expecting a level of professionalism from the company he's dealing with.

If they have spent the time and effort to build and maintain an online presence complete with contact options available for people (http://palladiumbooks.com/index.php?opt ... Itemid=192) then the least you'd expect is for them to actually monitor and respond to them.

Its a case of expectations - having lived in the US for many years and having been born and raised in the UK I can say there was a bit of a disconnect when I first moved over trying to understand why so many businesses treated customers so 'poorly' from the way I expected. It isn't that US customer support is worse or bad its just different and when your expecting one thing and get something else its shocking.

Also there is the simple matter of time zones to add to the complications of phoning and the fact that many people have phoned and effectively wasted their time by getting the run around on the phone line vs the net and it makes 'just spending a few more $ to drop them a line' an even worse prospect one which many quite frankly do not want to do (and do not expect to have to do).

Long story short, if your doing business online then you are expected to answer to questions and requests online.

- End of Line -

[Forar]

I guess that's what I don't understand...

Someone knows that the method they are complaining is pointless. Pointless to receive a response or resolution. Why?

The only reason to do it is to bring attention to the problem. Not what the OP claims which is to seek answers to the (legit) questions they have. In a different light the questions are essentially flame baiting the company that owns these forums. The only way to seek answers is to put forth the effort. If you feel you have been ripped off by Palladium you should drop the premise of BS and say, "I have been ripped off." Or whatever situation fits you're fancy... As in what you perceive has been transpired...

Again the only effective way to do this is to spend some $ and drop them a line.

Personally, I think all of these threads asking for answers about RTT should be purged. There is no point to them. They won't be answered. And as this poster pointed out it is just a means of ineffectual complaining... Why waste the thread space?

My point is made.

We have people asking how the game is, what the timeline is, if the game is worth picking up.

Issues with/complaints regarding Wave Two's lacking existence is pertinent to those conversations. If a new potential player pops into the forums and sees conversations about said product being highly delayed with no end in sight, they might put off picking up the game. Thus, while it's not necessarily a dramatic hit to potential sales, the ongoing issues are a matter that they need to keep in mind. If they wanted to, they could spend some time like they did on the June Super Update Of Everything Ever and bring us up to speed. A lot of the complaints and frustrations stem from lacking information or context regarding figures that are supposed to be done in the next 6 months (spoiler alert: they won't be).

Believe me, the moderation team here are no strangers to clipping posts, threads, and users from the community. If they want to, they will. You're entitled to your opinion that such chatter is nothing but hot air, but until you are granted moderatorship (or convince them to take the pruning sheers back out), it doesn't trump people's freedom to speak regarding topics of concern that relate to RRT, of which there are several.

Sorry to hear you don't like hearing people express their frustration. I feel "don't express your frustration" is not a productive angle to take, however.

For a company so sensitive to 'hype' and 'buzz' as they expressed regarding Gencon 2014 (when one of the many contentious issues boiled over), the lack of community information is in large part tied to the negative commentary people have regarding the project.

They cannot believably say "it'll be out by Q1 2016!" and "we have nothing to show for the last 7 months of work" without people calling them out on the disparity.

So I don't call that "pointless". One need not be a s**t disturbing malcontent to feel that expressing their frustration is productive.

[wilycoyote]

Lori, I take your point but passive complaints are all that we have. Threats of legal action are too much hyperbole for a reserved Brit like me and serve nothing if PB are forced to pull the plug to cover lawyer costs.

A direct call is likely to simply get a "call you back", direct emails - which I have sent - get stock answers, snail mail , well a nice polite leter will likely jsut sit at the bottom of the in tray.

Short of going to PB itself or an US convention there is no chance of a direct conversation about what is going on. Even on these forums you have to tip toe around what appears balatantly obvoius or risk a ban,

As it stands PB took in a massive amount of investment (the largest single amount by far in their history) and like any investment should and must reoort on their actions to their investors. A simple update every other week, would be enough - god knows they have enough going on by their own admission.

Rather than a complaimt I believe I am simply asking PB to stand by their promises and fulfil their obligations

[Lori]

I have made my point and I appreciate the deeper perspective you all are willing to provide.
I am not for the method of complaining on these boards. My experience tells me that it is pointless to ask questions of the PB staff-here if you are seeking any answers. I just felt obligated to chime in.

I’m not suggesting that people don’t express their frustration. I’m suggesting that people find a better means to express their frustration, other than these boards. The excuses of “why we can’t complain by a better means,” are rather lame by my estimation-that’s just my opinion. And I might add I can be real jerk sometimes-

I am not implying that believe that people who are complaining don’t have something to complain about. Certainly, anyone is entitled to their view and has a right to complain if they deem fit. From what I’ve seen there is no doubt something to complain about…
Personally, I have went from a rabid fan of PB to seeing their faults.

I almost contributed to this kickstarter. Once it exploded I decided not to. The question I asked myself (and happened to be right) is what experiences had I had with this company that would lead me to believe they could handle such a project? Or one that was soon to reach over one million bucks… The answer was absolutely nothing. Nothing to go on…

So I didn’t. That said, I hope everything in the end turns out well.

If you want to continue complaining by all means… I can’t stop you. But again… To what end? That is all I'm challenging. What fruit will you're labor bring-so to say.

Keep on keeping on.

And I hope you all eventually get the game you paid for(I really do).

Best of luck folks-

[The Beast]

...A direct call is likely to simply get a "call you back", direct emails - which I have sent - get stock answers, snail mail , well a nice polite leter will likely jsut sit at the bottom of the in tray...

I've heard that Kevin actually responds to snail mail more often than he does email, though I have no way of knowing first-hand. I mean who the heck writes an actual letter anymore? I haven't done that since I was in BCT.

[wilycoyote]

Well, I will continue to post here and elsewhere and will try an old fashioned letter as well. Sometimes you have keep prodding the tiger with even a blunt stick until it wakes up

I do not see it as complaining but a simple customer enquiry about product I invested in, which in the case of a KS project like this, should be answered to the wider community - of course better communication was another "promise" by the Palladium