Hitting the enemies eye with a called shot in melee.

SittingBull · Unread post by **SittingBull** » Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:22 pm

What would the penalties be for hitting this location during melee?

tuvermage · Unread post by **tuvermage** » Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:28 pm

We always used -6 because it's a small target.

SittingBull · Unread post by **SittingBull** » Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:31 pm

I had thought and hoped the penalty might be steeper.

Thank you.

kiralon · Unread post by **kiralon** » Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:05 pm

16 or higher for called shot
-4 for targeting head
-8 for targeting eye.

This might be N&S or Turtles or even first ed palladium rules, I cant remember, but it is the way we have played it forever.

SittingBull · Unread post by **SittingBull** » Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:08 pm

16 or higheR? called shot is 12 or higher I thought.

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:37 pm

-10 to called shot so a 24 or better with bonuses and a miss doesn't hit the main body.

Deals triple critical hit damage(x2 then x3).

kiralon · Unread post by **kiralon** » Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:16 pm

this might interest you
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=112264#p2154125

it is 12 with -4 but it costs 2 attacks, with the attack going off on the second action

SittingBull · Unread post by **SittingBull** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:27 am

kiralon wrote:this might interest you
http://www.palladium-megaverse.com/foru ... 4#p2154125

it is 12 with -4 but it costs 2 attacks, with the attack going off on the second action

Two actions for a melee attack?

kiralon · Unread post by **kiralon** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:41 am

SittingBull wrote:
kiralon wrote:this might interest you
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=112264#p2154125

it is 12 with -4 but it costs 2 attacks, with the attack going off on the second action

Two actions for a melee attack?

Only if its a called shot

SittingBull · Unread post by **SittingBull** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:42 am

Making a called shot in melee wouldn't be possible unless your fighting someone who is no threat to you.

kiralon · Unread post by **kiralon** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:48 am

Probably done on purpose to stop people from doing called shots to the eyes so they ignore armour and then argue that their opponent should now be blind in one eye/dead from being stabbed in the head.
and
The explanation for this was that this was the time the character used to look for an opening in the opponent's defenses and time the hit just right.

SittingBull · Unread post by **SittingBull** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:52 am

I know, I read it. I rather have STEEP penalties than multiple action movies.

eliakon · Unread post by **eliakon** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 5:12 am

The problem is that it is pretty easy to get super high bonuses to strike.
When its easy to get a +16 or more to strike....then suddenly that -15 penalty is now 'your only at +1 to hit an eye in a sword fight.'.....

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:31 pm

Memnoc house rule.

Called shots no bonus to strike, counts as two actions and a 14 or higher must be rolled.
If course a miss misses, no free damage and the attacks are still used.

I don't like this system.

tuvermage · Unread post by **tuvermage** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 2:57 pm

anyone have the book and page for called shot. I couldn't find it in palladium fantasy main book. only referrences to it in bowman and palladin. In Rifts main book page 40. it is above a 12. which book did the -4 come into play?

SittingBull · Unread post by **SittingBull** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 5:40 pm

eliakon wrote:The problem is that it is pretty easy to get super high bonuses to strike.
When its easy to get a +16 or more to strike....then suddenly that -15 penalty is now 'your only at +1 to hit an eye in a sword fight.'.....

In SOME games a +16 to strike might be easy, in other games its impossible.

kiralon · Unread post by **kiralon** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:48 pm

In palladium its way too easy because of fleet feet.

SittingBull · Unread post by **SittingBull** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:28 pm

The spell I never allowed. Well this isnt in a fantasy setting but I figured I would get the most basic answer in this forum.

Veknironth · Unread post by **Veknironth** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:48 pm

Well, there is no hard and fast rule for this but personally I'd make it a natural 20. I assume melee combat to be two or more people actively trying to strike/parry/dodge each other. Hitting the head is hard enough, but going for the eye? It's a tiny area on a moving target that you're aiming for as you are also moving.

-Vek
"Hell, a natural 20 is bad enough!"

kiralon · Unread post by **kiralon** » Sat Sep 26, 2015 12:22 am

Veknironth wrote:I assume melee combat to be two or more people actively trying to strike/parry/dodge each other. Hitting the head is hard enough, but going for the eye? It's a tiny area on a moving target that you're aiming for as you are also moving.

+1

The called shot isn't present in fantasy like it is in rifts and the others even though it is mentioned. Its not a valid combat move because it isn't in the books (that I can easily see).

SittingBull · Unread post by **SittingBull** » Sat Sep 26, 2015 12:47 am

Veknironth wrote:Well, there is no hard and fast rule for this but personally I'd make it a natural 20. I assume melee combat to be two or more people actively trying to strike/parry/dodge each other. Hitting the head is hard enough, but going for the eye? It's a tiny area on a moving target that you're aiming for as you are also moving.

-Vek
"Hell, a natural 20 is bad enough!"

Other tiny/small and difficult targets in other systems by palladium are only -3 or -4 though.

The Dark Elf · Unread post by **The Dark Elf** » Sat Sep 26, 2015 6:33 am

Next youve gotta work out the penalties for being hit in the eye, because atm it's moot (IIRC). :mrgreen:

URLeader Hobbes · Sat Sep 26, 2015 8:19 am

What is the situation exactly?

If the foe is wearing a helmet it may be more difficult as the blade will have to slide into the small opening to then hit them in the eye.

ShadowLogan · Unread post by **ShadowLogan** » Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:29 am

SittingBull wrote:What would the penalties be for hitting this location during melee?

It comes down main factors as I see it:
-the nature of the attack (blade, powder, first, etc)
-how well protected the head is

The first factor, if you are talking about throwing dirt/water/powder/etc in the face. That seems a simple called shot, it doesn't require precision. If you are talking about getting just close that is different than actually needing to hit it specifically.

The second factor is obvious. If the area is protected, it limits the effectiveness of the first and could incur additional penalties since you have a much more limited range of attack.

SittingBull · Unread post by **SittingBull** » Sat Sep 26, 2015 7:17 pm

No head protection or armor.

Lukterran · Unread post by **Lukterran** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:54 am

kiralon wrote:In palladium its way too easy because of fleet feet.

The maximum bonus from P.P. that you are going to get from fleet feet is +8. That is if they have a starting P.P. attribute of 15 or higher. It maxes out at 30 and just gives +1 to initiative for every 3 points beyond 30.

Library Ogre · Unread post by **Library Ogre** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:20 pm

While I would have it somewhat depend on what kind of armor they're wearing (a slit visor is going to be better protection than a pot helmet), my gut is a -16, on top of the other rules regarding called shots.

SittingBull · Unread post by **SittingBull** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:47 pm

No armor being worn by the target.

Library Ogre · Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:17 pm

Then, my gut remains -16. An eye is a damned small target to aim for, reasonably well protected by cheeks and eyebrows, and of a part that humans instinctively protect in combat. You're essentially asking to cut off the tip of someone's thumb.

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:56 pm

I prefer videogame style, mainbody die at zero.
Much simpler.

Alrik Vas · Unread post by **Alrik Vas** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:20 pm

If you play with the 2 attacks for called shots (i do, but they happen immediately, even though I have some agreement with the "wait, parry, see the opportunity and strike" visual implied by it happening on the second attack, i just do it this way because it's faster), then I think...if a "hit" is 5+, then -10 is the highest you should go.

This means, roll to strike, say you have +8, you roll a 7. That's a hit, as with penalties, 15 is what you needed...but your roll is still a 5, remember. That means the enemy parrying or dodging only needs a 5 with their full bonuses in play to not get hit by it.

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:46 pm

Certain combos automatically hit a targeted area.

Block and Elbow to the face. Works off any incoming attack. But this is a game...

SittingBull · Unread post by **SittingBull** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:25 pm

The hero cant stand toe to toe with the enemy as it does more damage than him and can take more damage than him. The enemy is also not human but supernatural evil that's why I haven't vetoed this idea of his.

Alrik Vas · Unread post by **Alrik Vas** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:31 am

say652 wrote:Certain combos automatically hit a targeted area.

Block and Elbow to the face. Works off any incoming attack. But this is a game...

Yeah, and in the game you are pretty limited by the maneuvers your H2H grants you. Most classes don't have a combination parry/head strike.

Veknironth · Unread post by **Veknironth** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:30 am

Well, are we talking about the Block and Elbow to the face working of any attack in PFRPG?

-Vek
"Certainly not in real life, right?"

Alrik Vas · Unread post by **Alrik Vas** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:31 am

Say is talking about this order if combat:

Attacker rolls strike
Defender uses simultaneous strike: combination parry/attack.

Parry success, roll strike.

Veknironth · Unread post by **Veknironth** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:44 pm

Well, unless the person attacking has paired weapons as well.

-Vek
"This is why I'd have the number to hit be a natural 20."

Alrik Vas · Unread post by **Alrik Vas** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:00 pm

There are many who would say hands don't qualify as weapons for the use of that proficiency.

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:23 pm

Boxing gives the parry&strike combo.

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:24 pm

Alrik Vas wrote:
say652 wrote:Certain combos automatically hit a targeted area.

Block and Elbow to the face. Works off any incoming attack. But this is a game...

Yeah, and in the game you are pretty limited by the maneuvers your H2H grants you. Most classes don't have a combination parry/head strike.

This i call SLIPPERY TOOTH LOSS, irl a barroom fav and adds to the horror factor. Lol

eliakon · Unread post by **eliakon** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:23 pm

say652 wrote:Boxing gives the parry&strike combo.

Where?

SittingBull · Unread post by **SittingBull** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:35 pm

Only think I know of that allows parry and strike is paired weapons.

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:56 pm

eliakon wrote:
say652 wrote:Boxing gives the parry&strike combo.

Where?

When you are taught to parry a thrust with the forearm as you "punch through" incoming straight punches. Like a month or so into training.

Blackvault has a Boxing revised skill that fixes a shoddy game mechanic

SittingBull · Unread post by **SittingBull** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:59 pm

Not all of us use Blackvault material.

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:04 pm

And not all of us Box. Those that do know what i am talking about.

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:16 pm

Personally i am against called shots vs things without mdc by location charts.

As a gm, NO is your right and Duty.

Instead of a called shot, a DEATHBLOW does the same thing and is canon.

SittingBull · Unread post by **SittingBull** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:23 pm

I know what your talking about also.

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:27 pm

Vs fleshy targets a deathblow with dramatic descriptive oration seems more appropriate.

SittingBull · Unread post by **SittingBull** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:39 pm

Deathblow is something people dont start with at low levels though.

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:41 pm

White belts aren't normally taught the Dim Mak! Or the Five Point Exploding Heart Technique! What kinda game is this!!