Line of Sight?

[filo_clarke]

In a situation where an enemy is concealed from view, but an alternate means of "seeing" them is available, can a spell still be cast?

Example: You are fighting an enemy who is hunckered down behind a vehicle, out of view, but you would still REALLY like to use Call Lightning on them. You pull out your trusty crystal ball (or portable drone aircraft, or clairvoyance ability) and can now "see" him. He is within range of the spell. Can a spell that requires "line of sight" be used with an alternate sight line?

Canon answers. Opinions. Thoughts?

[Bill]

I don't know of a canon answer. In my opinion, you can use an alternate source of visual data to achieve the line of sight for indirect spell effects like lightning bolt. You must physically be within the listed range of the spell, but as long as you can direct the spell to the target it should work whether you're staring right at them or orienting through a device. I think it would be more flavorful to restrict it to mystical forms of observation, but that line can get very blurry with techno-wizards in the mix.

[Brayon]

Not sure of any Canon rules either, on this. I've allowed it via Home Rules, with the same conditions as Bill. In area, alt sight, & spell is not one that is a directly from the mage. So, powerbolt/firebolt would be out, but Call Lightning, Carpet of Adhesion, etc.

[Prysus]

Greetings and Salutations. I don't think this is ever addressed specifically, but keep in mind looking at a monitor displaying an image isn't actually the person. If I watch the Avengers movie, neither Robert Downey Jr nor Chris Evans are in my house, and they're not in my line of sight. My TV is in line of sight, and their images displayed upon it.

Now if you can actually see the person through the cover (like if you had x-ray eyes are can see the heat signature or something), then I'd argue line of sight (with indirect attacks, as obstacles would still obstruct direct fire). But if your line of sight is an object that is viewing them, then YOU do not have line of sight on that person. Note: I'd allow someone with x-ray goggles or other head gear that can enhance vision as well, the same as I wouldn't penalize someone who needed glasses to see. But it would still require you to see the person in direct line of sight.

Take that for what you will. Farewell and safe journeys.

[tuvermage]

Our rule is line or sight or you know the exact location. This rule was more for stationary targets; You see the desk, someone then move and blocks your view of the desk, you could still cast stuff on the desk (assuming the desk hasn't moved) It made for fun when the objects did get moved. Your using a remote viewing device would tell you the exact location, so as long as you are with range, my group would allow it.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I think the only spells that benefits from any remote viewing is the T-port self and T-port Sup. that is because the mage can use picture to focus on for the targeting of the spell.

But then you have to consider the spell itself and why the LoS requirement was put into the spell. Is it something that damages the 1st thing it hits? Is it a mental influencing spell? Or any other thing that needs a clear path to the target of the spell for it to effect the target?

[say652]

I say it works.

[Library Ogre]

I would only allow it if light reflected from the individual was what you were seeing... so a mirror, but not a drone or a scrying device. Otherwise, you don't really have "Line of Sight"... you know their location, but that's not the same thing.

[say652]

Astral projection and then cast spells?

[Tinker Dragoon]

"Line of sight" literally means you can draw an imaginary line directly between the observer and the target. Viewing the target on a screen or crystal ball gives you line of sight to the screen or crystal ball, not to the target.

[SpiritInterface]

Line of sight is still necessary for those indirect spells like call lightning, if you can't see where it is going to land you can't hit a target.

[ShadowLogan]

In a situation where an enemy is concealed from view, but an alternate means of "seeing" them is available, can a spell still be cast?

Example: You are fighting an enemy who is hunckered down behind a vehicle, out of view, but you would still REALLY like to use Call Lightning on them. You pull out your trusty crystal ball (or portable drone aircraft, or clairvoyance ability) and can now "see" him. He is within range of the spell. Can a spell that requires "line of sight" be used with an alternate sight line?

Canon answers. Opinions. Thoughts?

Can you still cast a spell, yes. Will it behave like you expect/want it to all the time? No.

"Line of Sight" can be involved with two things in the casting of the spell (or other power) IMHO:
1. the path the "effect" travels from its point of origin, which may or may not be the caster
2. the ability of the caster to see where he/she/it is targeting

The first thing is more important here. If the effect generated originates from the caster, then you need direct line of sight on the desired target and "alt. means of sight" don't help. If the effect generated has its origins somewhere else, then I would say yes though would likely incur a penalty to strike as such methods can distort perception ("objects in mirror are closer than they appear"), and w/n the Pyrokenesis/Burster Power (forget which form) there is a skill check involved with gauging distances, so some precedent for a skill check/modifier.

The second thing can fall under direct line of sight, or indirect line of sight. direct line of sight is what they can see by just looking in a given direction. Indirect line of sight has some type of augmentation allowing them to see around/past/through obstacles.

[Tor]

Scouting with a Familiar or Remote Viewing would be good for teleports I guess.

[say652]

Reason I allow Clairvoyance targeting.

Using scry mirror targeting, Mystic Portal delivery system, a fair amount of fusion blocks can be delivered.