Super Energy Expulsion clarification

[Razorwing]

Specifically with the Aura Flash effect of the power.

The damage states that it is 1d6 +1 per level... which I have seen interpreted in two different ways.

1) the 1d6 +1 per level is added whole... so at 2nd level the attack would do 2d6 +2; 3rd level would do 3d6 +3 and so forth.

2) only the +1 per level is increased... so at 2nd level that attack does 1d6 +2; 3rd level would do 1d6 +3 damage.

Which is generally accepted as the proper interpretation of damage for this power?

[drewkitty ~..~]

If you note...there is a space between the 1d6 and the +1. If the text had been 1d6+1/L then it would of been answer #1, but since it is 1D6 +1/L it is answer #2.

#2 is is in-line with the meaning typicly used for that format of math the book uses.
See the "Level of Experience" examples on page 225. The example of similer math format is in the range section.

[SittingBull]

I have to agree here.

[Razorwing]

I have to disagree with the space between the two being the difference. I have seen in other places in Palladium Books where there have been spaces where the entire damage is increased and instances where there was no space between the two and only the addition was increased.

Different writers seem to have different intentions with the way they write damage (at least when it comes to additional damage beyond what is rolled on dice). Some put a space in the equation others do not... in most cases the damage doesn't increase (since it is often some sort of weapon), but there are a few cases of its use with powers.

Then there is the possibility that the space between the two parts of the damage was merely a typo and never intended (something so small is easily missed and could be seen as insignificant and not worth bothering with since it could be assumed people are smart enough to ignore it). Palladium does its best to fix mistakes such as this, but even they are not perfect (and we all know all too well how things like auto-correct can add to problems it is meant to fix... putting spaces and changing words that are not needed).

I do appreciate the opinions that both of you shared (and am likely to go with it, since this is a "flash" attack type power meant more to surprise and startle than to hurt), but it would be nice to get an "official" word on whether this is the right interpretation or not (as unlikely as it may be to get such).

[eliakon]

I would think that the flash should be +1/level because other wise that AoE blast quickly is doing more damage than most of the regular Energy Blasts do to a single target.

As I don't think it was meant to be a super-duper massive kill everything power, I would go with +1/level

[Glistam]

I would think that the flash should be +1/level because other wise that AoE blast quickly is doing more damage than most of the regular Energy Blasts do to a single target.

As I don't think it was meant to be a super-duper massive kill everything power, I would go with +1/level

All the other core book Energy Expulsion powers do at least 3D6 at level 1, and gain 1D6 per level thereafter. This aura flash, if it was allowed to do 1D6+1 per level instead of 1D6, +1 per level, would not outstrip those powers until after level 10. And since it is a subset of a Major power that feels just fine to me.

[eliakon]

I would think that the flash should be +1/level because other wise that AoE blast quickly is doing more damage than most of the regular Energy Blasts do to a single target.

As I don't think it was meant to be a super-duper massive kill everything power, I would go with +1/level

All the other core book Energy Expulsion powers do at least 3D6 at level 1, and gain 1D6 per level thereafter. This aura flash, if it was allowed to do 1D6+1 per level instead of 1D6, +1 per level, would not outstrip those powers until after level 10. And since it is a subset of a Major power that feels just fine to me.

Two targets though splits that dice.
so if you get 3d6+1d6 at level 3 I would do more damage to two people (3d6+3 each) than the person with a normal power can (3d6 to one and either 2d6 or 3d6 to the other depending on how you run stuff.)

If there are more than 2 people in the blast radius the damage throughput gets even more skewed quickly.....
....and this isn't even the main ability of this Major power, but just one of its many powers.

[Glistam]

I would think that the flash should be +1/level because other wise that AoE blast quickly is doing more damage than most of the regular Energy Blasts do to a single target.

As I don't think it was meant to be a super-duper massive kill everything power, I would go with +1/level

All the other core book Energy Expulsion powers do at least 3D6 at level 1, and gain 1D6 per level thereafter. This aura flash, if it was allowed to do 1D6+1 per level instead of 1D6, +1 per level, would not outstrip those powers until after level 10. And since it is a subset of a Major power that feels just fine to me.

Two targets though splits that dice.
so if you get 3d6+1d6 at level 3 I would do more damage to two people (3d6+3 each) than the person with a normal power can (3d6 to one and either 2d6 or 3d6 to the other depending on how you run stuff.)

If there are more than 2 people in the blast radius the damage throughput gets even more skewed quickly.....
....and this isn't even the main ability of this Major power, but just one of its many powers.

The Aura will also hit allies, while the split option for Energy Expulsion allows you to chose your targets. If the Aura only does 1D6, +1 per level, then when would it even be worth doing?

[Dakchronos]

If you note...there is a space between the 1d6 and the +1. If the text had been 1d6+1/L then it would of been answer #1, but since it is 1D6 +1/L it is answer #2.

#2 is is in-line with the meaning typicly used for that format of math the book uses.
See the "Level of Experience" examples on page 225. The example of similer math format is in the range section.

By this logic, not trying to twist words but, this makes it sound like the super blast would do (1d6x10+1d6)/L do to lack of spacing. I suggest looking for an NPC with the ability and follow the examples given there. There's plenty in the books. From what I've seen, assume the lesser when it comes to damage. So a level 12 would get 1d6 +11 for the aura, and the super blast would get 1d6x10+11d6+30 or 2d6x10+1d6+30.

Hope this helps.

@Gilstam, For the standard thugs or even other villains, It has the potential to BLIND them. The aura is more for support. -8 to combat rolls is pretty harsh for any character. Remember, heroes aim to bring villains to justice rather than beating them within an inch of their lives.

[SittingBull]

Aura flash not aura incinerate. ^^

[drewkitty ~..~]

By this logic, not trying to twist words but, this makes it sound like the super blast would do (1d6x10+1d6)/L do to lack of spacing. I suggest looking for an NPC with the ability and follow the examples given there. There's plenty in the books. From what I've seen, assume the lesser when it comes to damage. So a level 12 would get 1d6 +11 for the aura, and the super blast would get 1d6x10+11d6+30 or 2d6x10+1d6+30.

...snip

....typos do happen....however it is clear to experienced players what is meant with the super blast. Also the SB is depicted as a footnote to the Energy Ex. sub-power text....sooo...I would expect that they took space saving measures to make the text fit.

[Razorwing]

I have to agree that just because there is a space or not doesn't mean that only that which comes after such is all that is added. As was pointed out... the Super Energy Blast was written as 1d6x10+1d6 per level (no spaces)... which since there was no space between them should mean that a 2nd level the hero with this power should be doing 2d6x10+2d6 damage... probably not what was intended. While many claim that the intent of the writer was obvious... it is still an assumption (and as such, could be wrong). What if the writer did intend for the super blast to be that powerful?

Back to the Flash Attack... having it do 1d6+1 damage per level isn't really going to over balance things too much (this is a major power after all)... and as has been noted, it doesn't discriminate between friend and foe. There have been numerous instances in comics and cartoons where a hero or villain unleashes a similar attack that actually does incinerate those close to the blast (though usually only villains intend for such to happen).

[drewkitty ~..~]

S-EEx (@L10)
TI: Traditional Interp.
RAW: Rules as Written
Alt. I: Alternative Interp.
1: TI & RAW EEx: 3D6 plus 1d6/L.... 13D6 damage with a range of 13-78 damage (this is just only +1D6 over the minor power's damage range)

1.1 TI SB: 1D6x10 +1d6/L +30 for being L6+...1D6x10+10D6+30 (or 2D6x10+30) with a range of 50-150
or
1.1 RAW SB: 1D6x20+1D6 per level +30 for being L6+....10D6x10+10D6+30 (or 11D6x10+30) with a damage range of 160-710 damage.

3 RAW&TI AE: 1D6 +1/L ....1D6+10 with a range of damage of 11-16.
or
3 Alt I AE: 1D6+1/L.....10D6+10 with a range of damage of 20-70.

For the Super Blast the RAW text seams a bit excessive while the TI seams nerfedvery much. However, the Alt. I of the Aura Effect seams one the money.

[Niji]

I would think that the flash should be +1/level because other wise that AoE blast quickly is doing more damage than most of the regular Energy Blasts do to a single target.

As I don't think it was meant to be a super-duper massive kill everything power, I would go with +1/level

All the other core book Energy Expulsion powers do at least 3D6 at level 1, and gain 1D6 per level thereafter. This aura flash, if it was allowed to do 1D6+1 per level instead of 1D6, +1 per level, would not outstrip those powers until after level 10. And since it is a subset of a Major power that feels just fine to me.

Two targets though splits that dice.
so if you get 3d6+1d6 at level 3 I would do more damage to two people (3d6+3 each) than the person with a normal power can (3d6 to one and either 2d6 or 3d6 to the other depending on how you run stuff.)

If there are more than 2 people in the blast radius the damage throughput gets even more skewed quickly.....
....and this isn't even the main ability of this Major power, but just one of its many powers.

The Aura will also hit allies, while the split option for Energy Expulsion allows you to chose your targets. If the Aura only does 1D6, +1 per level, then when would it even be worth doing?

It does 1d6 and then +1 per level starting with 2nd so 1D6+14 (maximum 20 damage with no other modifers in play), and has a good potential to blind enemies. What can you do with this Aura effect at paltry damage? Well it hits eveything, allies included, but everything means it hits bonds binding you(which is preventing you from firing your other blasts!), auto hits, which is huge vs a 99% or 100% evasion type villain (which are usually frail) or ninja, anything seeing it could be blinded (further). If you and your allies are all bound together with some rope thats too dificult or not enough time to struge free, a quick aura flash hits each bond, usually breaking it, deals for some light damage to your allies.

A lot of encasement powers give the encasement natural AR and around 10-20 SDC, 1 or two Aura flashes and you and/or your allies are freed! It also strikes all those other pesky natural AR things. And given the wording would probably deplete both armor sdc and occupent/wearer sdc/hp(or only take off the wearer/occupant's health except in the case of wearable natrual AR armor(matter expulsion: crystal, bio-armor, etc)) a nice double whammy. Really great when you are ganged up on by mooks, depending on your energy type of choice and factors like flamability (also a danger, no using this in hospitals, oil platforms, etc if typed fire!) as well. Though in general Super Energy Expulsion reads like a solo fighter power for taking on multiple opponents (or in general for aliens unlimited/galactic campaigns where one deals with energy stuff a lot).

It is, probably the strongest utility power on an otherwise almost purely offensive major ability. Really wish just the aura effect was a seperate minor power we could take. In the first campaign I played I had APS water (liquid) and Super Energy Expulsion, the water form's invulnerability to physical attacks(and ability to grow/pour through tight spaces) and the Aura Effect were pretty much all I needed to use for months of campaigning. It is a seriously useful utility power and probably the best ability of this major power (depending on which energy type you choose I guess). the campaign definitely had an insect theme so we were fighting huge swarms of things, and the aura effect basically clears out a 10' radius area around the character, with aps liquid dealing with the Giant 140' ants and all the gun toting mooks.

I found 14 more uses for Aura effect in that first campaign, I won't spoil anymore as thats meta gaming and takes away the fun of coming up with creative uses for the abilities the dice give you, but I just wanted to point out the most basic uses of the sub power.

Super Energy Expulsion could use some tweaking/updating with all the new types of minor ones out to flesh it out/balance it a bit better (or if they would release that 'customize' abilities article).

[Sir_Spirit]

I would think that the flash should be +1/level because other wise that AoE blast quickly is doing more damage than most of the regular Energy Blasts do to a single target.

As I don't think it was meant to be a super-duper massive kill everything power, I would go with +1/level

All the other core book Energy Expulsion powers do at least 3D6 at level 1, and gain 1D6 per level thereafter. This aura flash, if it was allowed to do 1D6+1 per level instead of 1D6, +1 per level, would not outstrip those powers until after level 10. And since it is a subset of a Major power that feels just fine to me.

I can agree with this reasoning.

[Niji]

I would think that the flash should be +1/level because other wise that AoE blast quickly is doing more damage than most of the regular Energy Blasts do to a single target.

As I don't think it was meant to be a super-duper massive kill everything power, I would go with +1/level

All the other core book Energy Expulsion powers do at least 3D6 at level 1, and gain 1D6 per level thereafter. This aura flash, if it was allowed to do 1D6+1 per level instead of 1D6, +1 per level, would not outstrip those powers until after level 10. And since it is a subset of a Major power that feels just fine to me.

I can agree with this reasoning.

The original version of Super Energy Explosion omited the rechannel and expel component and richochet component, personally i feel the rechannel sub power ruins the fantasy and thematics of this power and removing it to boost up aura flash makes more sense.

Incidentally the aura flash was originally 1/2 your normal energy expulsion damage, and in general the power was more spectacular (the super blast was 4x your normal blast damage which at higher levels was perhaps too strong, though left you more weakened after if i recall correctly). Thouh do keep in mind, if your GM allows rifter content you can just use the original version (it has a slightly different name, rifter number 1 2 or 3 i think?) which is less utility and tricky and more 'lets blow up that incoming meteor/spaceship' (and is more appropriate power for an aliens unlimited or phase world/galactic campaign).

[Niji]

It occured to me (finally) that super energy expulsion is actually a very weak power today. At least the reprinted version anyway.

Its only as strong as other energy expulsion minors.

The super blast SEEMS strong, but at level 6 plus, it is not doing much for how many attacks it can potentially take.

If you have two actions per melee, the super blast is very strong, but if you have 4 or more actions per melee (very common in HU setting) its effectiveness is almost nill.

Even a base static 4D6 level 1 blast from an APS power can do 12-16D6 damage in one round, thats a potential max of about 96, SEE does 60 at best.
At level 11 it does 2D6x10+30, for a cost of between 1-9 of your actions, and you must have initiative (and hit or miss is all you get).
That same 4D6 character at level 11 will be doing 4D6x10 for all their actions (and 10 strike rolls on an easy to land ability), 150 vs 240 maximums (50 vs 40 on the minimums though!).

A minor energy expulsion power would be doing 12-14d6 per attack at level 11 (or you can use super's regular attack kf you have a lot of attacks), so 12d6x10-14d6x10, greatly out pacing a majory ability.

Richochet blast is interesting since its pretty useful for hitting impossible to hit characters or preforming trick shots, and sure, great if that is the main flavor for your character, but over all very weak.

Aura Flash: solid aoe attack, if you are multi fighting vs 100 mooks, is is great, there are better aura powers as minirs though that auto hit, though they can't be used to blind or free your from physical restraints or encasement in a material(ice, stone, etc).

Rechannel: garbage unless you took electricity as your base and want to do some crazy stuff redirecting power grids without killing yourself.

Passives: impreviousness to energy type, pretty standard in majors, and certainly on its own qualifies it.

But this major ability is over all pretty weak, even from a utility standpoint for how much it gates you (its original print is significantly better however), maybe worth 1.5-2 minors on the Major ability scale, useful if you only have access to one major and one minor (or just one major).

But having seriously examined this again today with a clear head after reading through pu1-3 and heroes of the megaverse.....ehhh its aweful. Energy Wings is considerably better and spectacular!

Also minor powers are signifcantly stronger than I had thought before (and most APS powers are extremely strong! Both on utility and defense and offense!). This thread really made me change my look at this game hahah.

[SittingBull]

Yep. Some powers fall short or have fallen by the way.