Propose a Rifts World Book

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Didn't they already release a book about Chi-town?

Unfo, no. Lots and lots of stuff about the Burbs. No Chi-Town. Kevin is apparently torn on the Chi-Town idea 'cause lots of folks like the "mystery" of the walled city. I think a "life inside the walled city" book would be cool.

Fairly useless for campaings, though, since about 85-90% of all characters wouldnt be playable. Not useless, i guess, but severely limited. Id much rather have sourcebooks/world books that have broad use potential. Palladium has limited resources, so lets not devote them to niche stuff, eh?

[say652]

Rifts Alternate Earth.

The Coalition States are Ogres.
Atlantis is Atlantis.
All of Mexico and central America are one gargantuan Futuristic City infested with Vampires.

[Jorick]

Didn't they already release a book about Chi-town?

Unfo, no. Lots and lots of stuff about the Burbs. No Chi-Town. Kevin is apparently torn on the Chi-Town idea 'cause lots of folks like the "mystery" of the walled city. I think a "life inside the walled city" book would be cool.

Fairly useless for campaings, though, since about 85-90% of all characters wouldnt be playable. Not useless, i guess, but severely limited. Id much rather have sourcebooks/world books that have broad use potential. Palladium has limited resources, so lets not devote them to niche stuff, eh?

I agree, to a point. In general, I'm happy with Palladium/Kevin's policy of only writing what he's excited about at the moment, and relying on freelancers for the rest. Even if the book isn't the best, at least someone felt really inspired, and it wasn't forced. A large amount of books come out this way, despite the sadness of delays.

However, a large part of the draw, perhaps the largest draw, of Rifts in particular is the world/fluff. I buy books I don't care about (before I get them), just to read them, then find I'm influenced by them (because they're exciting and badass, and some page somewhere has something that springs something in my imagination).

I think the Atlantean book makes sense from a "useful for campaigns" point of view, as Atlanteans are popular options and can fit pretty much anywhere in any Rifts campaign. But it won't come out until after however many books this new Coalition stuff ends up being. Because the Coalition stuff is more fun to Kevin right now.

The Coalition stuff comes on the heels of the Minion War, and that fit in exactly zero campaigns before it was written, and likely, if used, would completely destroy the current trajectory of many campaigns. It was no less chock full of goodies.

I dunno how useful the Sovietsky or the China books are to people, but you can shoehorn anything into a Rifts campaign.

We already have the begginings of stuff that could work in a "cyberpunk" focused area. More of that is just more of that. Chi-town itself is just an example, and the material could be extended to other magacities, normal cities in the Coalition, the NGR, Japan, and any other tech bastion that would have relatively stable communication systems.

Furthermore, a campaign in Chi-town itself is just as doable as a campaign in chaos earth alone, or the burbs alone (the burbs books EDIT: and black market, already suggest ways in and out).

But, at the end of the day, it's really just about reading more about one of the two most, if not the most central city in the game since it's birth. I think it would be cool.

[Wise_Owl]

Full disclosure that I haven't bought a Rifts book in quite some Time. I think China 2 was the last book I purchased, and that was some time ago. I suspect part of me has 'grown past' Rifts in a sense?(i.e. that now that I'm old and cynical and weary with the world I'm not as delighted by Cyborg Mutants and Slaving Alien Hordes as I once was.) That being said I've been looking over my Rifts stuff over the course of the last while, and peeking at the new stuff and I'd observe that what I liked most about Worldbooks was an expanding world. They always felt best when they were sort of expanding travel-louges, covering places we knew little or nothing about. Now some of the more localized NA books were good(I quite like Juicer Uprising even though it felt far more 'Juicer Sourcebooky' than like a 'worldbook'), but as time went on the continued focus on NA got sort of Boring. So with that in mind;

India
South-East Asia
Mesopotamia(which is what i'd call a book on the MIddle East if I were to do one.)
Persia

These are all pretty glaring in their absence. All also have potential in terms of localized mythologies and weirdness. Though I recognize that the Middle East is probably being avoided for political reasons.

More from Africa. The Africa book kind of sucks at this and commits... how do I say this politely... it commits common misconceptions regarding the continent. Africa is bloody HUGE. It's also a place filled with history, modern and ancient.

Basically I want more books like say the pair of Russian Books, which add interesting new players or a broad scope or new qualities or powers or what-ever.

[say652]

How about we turn the thread into our own Forums Worldbook.
List setting.
Created Occs.
Technology.
Magic.
Inhabitants history.
Play module.

[parkhyun]

Rifts: Korea

The Concept: Human kingdoms on the Korean peninsula carve out a tenuous existence with the help of supernatural goblins known as ttokebi, who are small, clever and never entirely trustworthy. As the signs of a Japanese invasion come faster and larger, palace factions plot their intrigues - with the ttokebi, with rival kingdoms, with the Japanese, or with the shamans.

Classes:
Seer - a political advisor with psychic powers.
Militia Commander - a fighter class with diplomacy/leadership bonuses.
Ttokebi - the RCC. Impish, SDC-only, but with incredible intelligence and strong magic.
Mudang - a shaman, whose connection to spirit allows her (always a her) to summon supernatural agents. Old, weak, and a social outcast, a mudang operates behind the scenes, but with enormous power.
Courtier Clone - A regular human with multiple backups. However, he or she is never quite sure how many there are left, and if the palace is destroyed, will lose them all.
Ki Assassin - A trained martial artist whose touch can penetrate any MDC armor to attack the life-force of the being beneath.

The Kingdoms:
The Northern Kim - an autocratic, paranoid kingdom, the Northern Kim are the most "tech-oriented" of Korea's principates. Relying heavily on modified Russian gear, the Kims defend a mountainous land while eyeing the lush but demon-infested plains of Manchuria. Their exclusionary culture would imply that they are above dealing with ttokebi or mudang, but appearances are deceiving in the north.

The Eastern Cho - the oldest of the four kingdoms, the Cho family focuses on trade, particularly with Japan. Their western lands are fenced by rugged mountains, which offer protection and rich mines. However, the Cho kingdom is clearly losing ground to its neighbors, and its nobles increasingly see Japan as the only viable option for protection and leverage.

The Southern Pahk - the youngest of the Kingdoms, the Pahk family is the most insecure. They have come therefore to rely the most heavily on the support of the ttokebi, for better or worse. If allowed to grow, this kingdom could be unbeatable due to its lush fields, high population, and powerful ley lines, but its factional politics and poorly-trained militia army offer little threat, for now.

The Eastern Lee - mystical, mysterious and murderous. Magic-users and shamans are welcome here, although men of arms aren't exactly turned away, either. The Lee family is close with the shamans, which generates suspicion among its lower classes. Ttokebi don't like the Lee, and will try to turn and warp its family members to sow chaos and distrust. However, the Lees are tight-knit and individually powerful, thanks to their practice of magic. If an uprising is to start, it will start here.

[Zer0 Kay]

Full disclosure that I haven't bought a Rifts book in quite some Time. I think China 2 was the last book I purchased, and that was some time ago. I suspect part of me has 'grown past' Rifts in a sense?(i.e. that now that I'm old and cynical and weary with the world I'm not as delighted by Cyborg Mutants and Slaving Alien Hordes as I once was.) That being said I've been looking over my Rifts stuff over the course of the last while, and peeking at the new stuff and I'd observe that what I liked most about Worldbooks was an expanding world. They always felt best when they were sort of expanding travel-louges, covering places we knew little or nothing about. Now some of the more localized NA books were good(I quite like Juicer Uprising even though it felt far more 'Juicer Sourcebooky' than like a 'worldbook'), but as time went on the continued focus on NA got sort of Boring. So with that in mind;

India
South-East Asia
Mesopotamia(which is what i'd call a book on the MIddle East if I were to do one.)
Persia

These are all pretty glaring in their absence. All also have potential in terms of localized mythologies and weirdness. Though I recognize that the Middle East is probably being avoided for political reasons.

More from Africa. The Africa book kind of sucks at this and commits... how do I say this politely... it commits common misconceptions regarding the continent. Africa is bloody HUGE. It's also a place filled with history, modern and ancient.

Basically I want more books like say the pair of Russian Books, which add interesting new players or a broad scope or new qualities or powers or what-ever.

So Persia isn't part of the Middle East? They wouldn't do that either, believing that the same people they're worried about would have issues about being excluded.

[say652]

Rifts: Korea

The Concept: Human kingdoms on the Korean peninsula carve out a tenuous existence with the help of supernatural goblins known as ttokebi, who are small, clever and never entirely trustworthy. As the signs of a Japanese invasion come faster and larger, palace factions plot their intrigues - with the ttokebi, with rival kingdoms, with the Japanese, or with the shamans.

Classes:
Seer - a political advisor with psychic powers.
Militia Commander - a fighter class with diplomacy/leadership bonuses.
Ttokebi - the RCC. Impish, SDC-only, but with incredible intelligence and strong magic.
Mudang - a shaman, whose connection to spirit allows her (always a her) to summon supernatural agents. Old, weak, and a social outcast, a mudang operates behind the scenes, but with enormous power.
Courtier Clone - A regular human with multiple backups. However, he or she is never quite sure how many there are left, and if the palace is destroyed, will lose them all.
Ki Assassin - A trained martial artist whose touch can penetrate any MDC armor to attack the life-force of the being beneath.

The Kingdoms:
The Northern Kim - an autocratic, paranoid kingdom, the Northern Kim are the most "tech-oriented" of Korea's principates. Relying heavily on modified Russian gear, the Kims defend a mountainous land while eyeing the lush but demon-infested plains of Manchuria. Their exclusionary culture would imply that they are above dealing with ttokebi or mudang, but appearances are deceiving in the north.

The Eastern Cho - the oldest of the four kingdoms, the Cho family focuses on trade, particularly with Japan. Their western lands are fenced by rugged mountains, which offer protection and rich mines. However, the Cho kingdom is clearly losing ground to its neighbors, and its nobles increasingly see Japan as the only viable option for protection and leverage.

The Southern Pahk - the youngest of the Kingdoms, the Pahk family is the most insecure. They have come therefore to rely the most heavily on the support of the ttokebi, for better or worse. If allowed to grow, this kingdom could be unbeatable due to its lush fields, high population, and powerful ley lines, but its factional politics and poorly-trained militia army offer little threat, for now.

The Eastern Lee - mystical, mysterious and murderous. Magic-users and shamans are welcome here, although men of arms aren't exactly turned away, either. The Lee family is close with the shamans, which generates suspicion among its lower classes. Ttokebi don't like the Lee, and will try to turn and warp its family members to sow chaos and distrust. However, the Lees are tight-knit and individually powerful, thanks to their practice of magic. If an uprising is to start, it will start here.

Very nice. But no,dedicated Martial Artists type class?
"Next Korea book Remo. ...

[Blue_Lion]

Full disclosure that I haven't bought a Rifts book in quite some Time. I think China 2 was the last book I purchased, and that was some time ago. I suspect part of me has 'grown past' Rifts in a sense?(i.e. that now that I'm old and cynical and weary with the world I'm not as delighted by Cyborg Mutants and Slaving Alien Hordes as I once was.) That being said I've been looking over my Rifts stuff over the course of the last while, and peeking at the new stuff and I'd observe that what I liked most about Worldbooks was an expanding world. They always felt best when they were sort of expanding travel-louges, covering places we knew little or nothing about. Now some of the more localized NA books were good(I quite like Juicer Uprising even though it felt far more 'Juicer Sourcebooky' than like a 'worldbook'), but as time went on the continued focus on NA got sort of Boring. So with that in mind;

India
South-East Asia
Mesopotamia(which is what i'd call a book on the MIddle East if I were to do one.)
Persia

These are all pretty glaring in their absence. All also have potential in terms of localized mythologies and weirdness. Though I recognize that the Middle East is probably being avoided for political reasons.

More from Africa. The Africa book kind of sucks at this and commits... how do I say this politely... it commits common misconceptions regarding the continent. Africa is bloody HUGE. It's also a place filled with history, modern and ancient.

Basically I want more books like say the pair of Russian Books, which add interesting new players or a broad scope or new qualities or powers or what-ever.

So Persia isn't part of the Middle East? They wouldn't do that either, believing that the same people they're worried about would have issues about being excluded.

I thought Persia was Iran. It is one of the culture names of the area. Did a quick search Persia is one of the culture names of country we identify as Iran that places it in middle east. At its height the Persian empire stretched from Pakistan and Afghanistan to Egypt and Greece. So yes Persia is part of the middle east.

Mesopotamia is reference to the area in the Tigris and Euphrates river system, includes modern day Iraq, Syria and Kuwaiti but includes some of the Iran-Iraq boarders and Syria Turkish borders. Basically he is dividing the middle east into two books so there is twice the chance to offend the Islamic community of the middle east.

[parkhyun]

Very nice. But no,dedicated Martial Artists type class?
"Next Korea book Remo. ...

Any classes from Japan and China could apply, and would certainly be good springboards into adventures. Maybe they'll go looking for Sinanju.

[say652]

Very nice. But no,dedicated Martial Artists type class?
"Next Korea book Remo. ...

Any classes from Japan and China could apply, and would certainly be good springboards into adventures. Maybe they'll go looking for Sinanju.

500 cool points for knowing that. Lol.

In all seriousness though, I like the outline for Korea you layed down. Facing Demons and A Rival Nation lots of intrigue potential and open world monster hunting.
Well done.

[parkhyun]

I think Korea's a good choice, not only because it's a really interesting place right now, but also because its position as a nexus between Russia, China and Japan make it a good melting pot for several existing Rifts worldbooks. There's a lot of potential both as a worldbook and as a campaign series.

[IronWarrior]

Rifts: Steampunk
A Techno Wizard Haven

[Riftmaker]

Maybe a book on some nice experimental mecha that has more that one mode just saying this stuff falls out of the rifts someone should pick it up right.

[Zer0 Kay]

Maybe a book on some nice experimental mecha that has more that one mode just saying this stuff falls out of the rifts someone should pick it up right.

NGR already did where do u think the sub came from?

[Zer0 Kay]

Rifts: Steampunk
A Techno Wizard Haven

Call the book Haven

[Zer0 Kay]

Full disclosure that I haven't bought a Rifts book in quite some Time. I think China 2 was the last book I purchased, and that was some time ago. I suspect part of me has 'grown past' Rifts in a sense?(i.e. that now that I'm old and cynical and weary with the world I'm not as delighted by Cyborg Mutants and Slaving Alien Hordes as I once was.) That being said I've been looking over my Rifts stuff over the course of the last while, and peeking at the new stuff and I'd observe that what I liked most about Worldbooks was an expanding world. They always felt best when they were sort of expanding travel-louges, covering places we knew little or nothing about. Now some of the more localized NA books were good(I quite like Juicer Uprising even though it felt far more 'Juicer Sourcebooky' than like a 'worldbook'), but as time went on the continued focus on NA got sort of Boring. So with that in mind;

India
South-East Asia
Mesopotamia(which is what i'd call a book on the MIddle East if I were to do one.)
Persia

These are all pretty glaring in their absence. All also have potential in terms of localized mythologies and weirdness. Though I recognize that the Middle East is probably being avoided for political reasons.

More from Africa. The Africa book kind of sucks at this and commits... how do I say this politely... it commits common misconceptions regarding the continent. Africa is bloody HUGE. It's also a place filled with history, modern and ancient.

Basically I want more books like say the pair of Russian Books, which add interesting new players or a broad scope or new qualities or powers or what-ever.

So Persia isn't part of the Middle East? They wouldn't do that either, believing that the same people they're worried about would have issues about being excluded.

I thought Persia was Iran. It is one of the culture names of the area. Did a quick search Persia is one of the culture names of country we identify as Iran that places it in middle east. At its height the Persian empire stretched from Pakistan and Afghanistan to Egypt and Greece. So yes Persia is part of the middle east.

Mesopotamia is reference to the area in the Tigris and Euphrates river system, includes modern day Iraq, Syria and Kuwaiti but includes some of the Iran-Iraq boarders and Syria Turkish borders. Basically he is dividing the middle east into two books so there is twice the chance to offend the Islamic community of the middle east.

Iran was Persia but it is still the middle east. Why cuz he couldn't offend the Jews?

Such a rich place for a world book. Too bad certain extremist get offended too easily. But same goes for Korea, no telling if the crazy Cabbage Patch kid will get offended. Surprised Kevin decided to do Ireland as a blurb, it could have offended the IRA. Dunnoh, maybe Kevin should get to know his customer base.

[glitterboy2098]

Rifts: Steampunk
A Techno Wizard Haven

Call the book Haven

honestly? given the easy convergence of westerns and steampunk, i'd say if you want a steampunk influenced part of the setting, do a book on the Colorado Baronies. it would be TW steampunk but that's close enough.

[Zer0 Kay]

Rifts: Steampunk
A Techno Wizard Haven

Call the book Haven

honestly? given the easy convergence of westerns and steampunk, i'd say if you want a steampunk influenced part of the setting, do a book on the Colorado Baronies. it would be TW steampunk but that's close enough.

Actually do a book on the Baronies. What detail someplace that should already be detailed? Next crazy thin you'll say is they should do a New Lazlo Book.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

I think Korea's a good choice, not only because it's a really interesting place right now, but also because its position as a nexus between Russia, China and Japan make it a good melting pot for several existing Rifts worldbooks. There's a lot of potential both as a worldbook and as a campaign series.

This is exactly what I meant by broad use case. I really like this idea, and the outline above is very solid.

[Zer0 Kay]

I think Korea's a good choice, not only because it's a really interesting place right now, but also because its position as a nexus between Russia, China and Japan make it a good melting pot for several existing Rifts worldbooks. There's a lot of potential both as a worldbook and as a campaign series.

This is exactly what I meant by broad use case. I really like this idea, and the outline above is very solid.

Yeah but Kim Jon-un is as likely to try to put a hit on the author because he doesn't like that the author didn't make the North survive and the South die as Islamic Extremists are to find the author and behead them because they didn't like the rendition of the 13th Imam in Rifts: Middle East.

[IronWarrior]

Rifts: Steampunk
A Techno Wizard Haven

Call the book Haven

nah ...call it Warehouse 13

[Blue_Lion]

Rifts: Steampunk
A Techno Wizard Haven

Call the book Haven

nah ...call it Warehouse 13

As funny as that would be it will cause a lawsuit.

[Wise_Owl]

Iran is what Persia is called in Farsi(a.k.a. Persian). 'Persia' is an Anglicization of the Latin term for the Empire of Persia, which itself comes from the Greek I believe. We started calling it Iran in the 1930's, it's always been 'Iran' or some linguistic variant within the country itself...

That said I think of Iran as being cultural and historically different enough from Mesopotamia or the Mediterranean cultures to warrant it's own book. 'The Middle East' as a term is based largely on modern cultural/imperial modes that definitely don't hold in Rifts Earth. Plus ultimately I imagine "Rifts Persia" would sell better than "Rifts Iran".

The idea that producing books about these area's would some-how lead to attacks against Palladium books is a bit silly. First of all there is plenty of pre-Muslim 'stuff' to draw from, and one could readily work with host of mythologies for that content as well as other science-fictiony elements. It's unlikely any-one in the middle east frankly gives a fig about what a modest publisher of a somewhat obscure hobby does. Palladium could just do what it does with Christianity and put in the subtlest of references and generally just ignore the issue.

Mostly I just think the area surrouding the Indian Ocean should get more love. I mean it was the hub of human water-going trade for centuries, and presumably you have Lemuria already right there. The broad ignorance on that area just seems pretty glaring in it's ommision and as I said I liked the world-books as travelogues.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Just popping in here, but again, I re-iterate. They're not going to touch the Middle East with a 20 foot pole unless it's Egypt and Egypt has already been done (And yes I'm aware it's in Africa but that's not how it's perceived, and Egypt is 'included' in the "Middle East")

One's liking or disliking of Iran, doesn't some how magically transport it OUT of the Middle east. (Though in Rifts you could magically transport it if you want, but I don't think anyone here is suggesting that)

The Middle East is traditionally defined as Iran (Persia) Asia Minor, Mesopotamia, the Levat, the Arabian Peninsula, and Egypt.

i.E. Bahran, Cyprus, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Oman, Palastine, Qatar, Saudia Arabia, Syria, Turkey, the UAE, and Yemen.

Palladium/Kevin just aren't going to touch the Middle East. It's picking a fight noone wants. ANY WAY they do it, there's going to be VERY VERY VERY Vocal people that aren't going to be happy. They can stay out of the middle east and do world books for 20 more years and just not have the fight. If you do it one way and focus too much on one thing, the other people get mad. For example, if you have Israel Survive, then people that don't like Israel and the Jews are going to freak. have Israel gone, and those that DO like Israel are going to call you anti-jew and freak. No matter HOW it's handled, it's a bad day when it hits shelves.

Palladium is also known for...... eh... to put it kindly.... Cultural ignorance and lack of cultural sensitivity when it comes to religion and people. There's still people in Northern Europe boycotting Palladium about how some gods were done in one of the old books. England maybe? Palladium Could NOT do a middle east book and ignore religion as that would affront ALLL The religions there.. but if they DID touch the religions they'd STILL affront all the people there as there's no way they could do it with out doing so (Religious scholars can't pull it off. Some dudes in Southern Michigan sure aren't going to)

So... seriously, just kiss a Middle East book good bye. The only thing we might have gotten would be Egypt as they went for old god sterotypes and.. well we've already got that.

[Blue_Lion]

Iran is what Persia is called in Farsi(a.k.a. Persian). 'Persia' is an Anglicization of the Latin term for the Empire of Persia, which itself comes from the Greek I believe. We started calling it Iran in the 1930's, it's always been 'Iran' or some linguistic variant within the country itself...

That said I think of Iran as being cultural and historically different enough from Mesopotamia or the Mediterranean cultures to warrant it's own book. 'The Middle East' as a term is based largely on modern cultural/imperial modes that definitely don't hold in Rifts Earth. Plus ultimately I imagine "Rifts Persia" would sell better than "Rifts Iran".

The idea that producing books about these area's would some-how lead to attacks against Palladium books is a bit silly. First of all there is plenty of pre-Muslim 'stuff' to draw from, and one could readily work with host of mythologies for that content as well as other science-fictiony elements. It's unlikely any-one in the middle east frankly gives a fig about what a modest publisher of a somewhat obscure hobby does. Palladium could just do what it does with Christianity and put in the subtlest of references and generally just ignore the issue.

Mostly I just think the area surrouding the Indian Ocean should get more love. I mean it was the hub of human water-going trade for centuries, and presumably you have Lemuria already right there. The broad ignorance on that area just seems pretty glaring in it's ommision and as I said I liked the world-books as travelogues.

It is a region where people are easily offended. Most of the people there probably would not care but all it takes is one to find it and let the others know for people to get upset to cause them to care. They have protested minor art about there faith so you can not say it will not upset them. You may think they should get more love but that is unlikely to happen do to the hot box of the area.

1 they need to leave some areas for the GMs to fill. (If you know about the areas history you probably do a better job with home brew than anything PB would publish.)
2 The area is avoided to avoid upsetting people much like how Austlia 2 was canned.

[ShadowLogan]

Maybe a book on some nice experimental mecha that has more that one mode just saying this stuff falls out of the rifts someone should pick it up right.

You mean like Atlantis (2 Kittani), World Book 7: Underseas (Triax, maybe a second in the Merbot PA), Phaseworld (Kittani), Phase World Source Book (Naruni), Naruni Wave 2 (Naruni), South America 2 (turtle 'bot as a maybe). And that is more or less of the top of my head, I don't even have a full Rifts inventory.

Really transfromable mecha aren't that practical, there really isn't a reason to produce that type of hardware currently. If a human block where to attempt it would have to be Triax or Japan Republic/Ichto, and Japan I can see being more interested than Triax (Triax is only really on the list because they have it)

i.E. Bahran, Cyprus, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Oman, Palastine, Qatar, Saudia Arabia, Syria, Turkey, the UAE, and Yemen.

Well Egypt has already been covered in Africa. Turkey IINM is also mentioned in Conversion Book 1 revised as home to a kingdom of giants IIRC. I'm not sure if the other areas have references elsewhere either (like in Pantheons as that is a book I don't own).

As much as I'd like to suggest putting the rest of the ME under water, WB7 has a global map that rules that option out. Though we can always go with Time-Warp? One big Fade-Town? or something else to allow PB to "ignore" the region.

I think Korea's a good choice, not only because it's a really interesting place right now, but also because its position as a nexus between Russia, China and Japan make it a good melting pot for several existing Rifts worldbooks. There's a lot of potential both as a worldbook and as a campaign series.

Rifts Japan already gives an idea of what's in Korea. I don't own China or Russia, so I don't know if they make any references (China would seem to be the place though).

[parkhyun]

Lots of Rifts books mention places described in depth by other Rifts books. Korea has a lot of potential, as a setting, and to fill out a geographic area (East Asia) the way other books fill out North America.

[Daniel Stoker]

It is a region where people are easily offended. Most of the people there probably would not care but all it takes is one to find it and let the others know for people to get upset to cause them to care. They have protested minor art about there faith so you can not say it will not upset them. You may think they should get more love but that is unlikely to happen do to the hot box of the area.

And he was talking about working with stuff that predates their faith, and I'm sorry but there is all KINDS of fiction and stories and even games written/take place in the Middle East that don't get threats or protests. And while I think Kevin will just continue to ignore this if he didn't I don't think they'll ever even know about any book Palladium puts out let alone start going off about it. We may all know about Palladium but let's be honest we're a really small part of the greater world audience.


Daniel Stoker

[Serus Angel]

I wouldn't mind a World Book in the same vein as Northern Gun for Wilks rather than spread across multiple books. It would be neat to see them expand into other kinds of markets from their Laser weapons to other related markets.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Mind, if he wanted input from Muslims and people of middle eastern lineage, he lives in the right place to find it, given that Dearborn has the largest concentration of both anywhere in the First World.

[Pepsi Jedi]

It is a region where people are easily offended. Most of the people there probably would not care but all it takes is one to find it and let the others know for people to get upset to cause them to care. They have protested minor art about there faith so you can not say it will not upset them. You may think they should get more love but that is unlikely to happen do to the hot box of the area.

And he was talking about working with stuff that predates their faith, and I'm sorry but there is all KINDS of fiction and stories and even games written/take place in the Middle East that don't get threats or protests. And while I think Kevin will just continue to ignore this if he didn't I don't think they'll ever even know about any book Palladium puts out let alone start going off about it. We may all know about Palladium but let's be honest we're a really small part of the greater world audience.


Daniel Stoker

But that's not really the point. The point is that Palladium, at the end of the day, is a company. THeir purpose to make money. They do this by producing books and selling them. Bad press is.. bad Press.

Palladium... putting it politely has plenty of that just now with the RTT thing. They don't need more.

So why risk it? No matter what is written it's going to anger someone. As pointed out even if you don't put anything religious at all in the book. __THAT__ Will anger some. If you DO, No matter what it is, you're going to anger half if not better than half. So it's a lose lose situation.

Why risk it? If you can produce 50 other world books before even touching it. Why touch it? Why make a risk? Palladium's producing 3 books a year.. maybe 4. If they're small or a larger book is split. Why put in a book that at the very best is going to perturb a number of people and perhaps anger them to the point of bad publicity?

Palladium -has- gotten grief about religion before. More than once. With Religions considered to be 'dead' or 'Mythical" To the point of boycotts. They've gotten grief over protrail of native peoples. Why risk it with religions of over a billion people?? (Whom I FULLY Agree are very very likely NOT to be the ones buying the book, but that said. It only takes one, then spreading it around to cause a ruckus)

I can't see them taking the risk. They don't 'NEED' to take the risk. Noone's beating down their doors for the book. Nothing else in the setting has lead up to and pointed the 'world' in that direction. It's not like there's factions there that have been mentioned as world powers but we just don't have the books for them. It's a blank spot.

The West cost of North America Still hasn't been covered after 25 years.

They've got a LONG way to go before they touch the nest of Vipers that would be the middle east.

And that's just brushing on the anger from those in the middle east or from the middle east.

That doesn't even touch the aspect of many people disliking the middle east and thus sales being reduced for THAT.

[Blue_Lion]

It is a region where people are easily offended. Most of the people there probably would not care but all it takes is one to find it and let the others know for people to get upset to cause them to care. They have protested minor art about there faith so you can not say it will not upset them. You may think they should get more love but that is unlikely to happen do to the hot box of the area.

And he was talking about working with stuff that predates their faith, and I'm sorry but there is all KINDS of fiction and stories and even games written/take place in the Middle East that don't get threats or protests. And while I think Kevin will just continue to ignore this if he didn't I don't think they'll ever even know about any book Palladium puts out let alone start going off about it. We may all know about Palladium but let's be honest we're a really small part of the greater world audience.


Daniel Stoker

But that's not really the point. The point is that Palladium, at the end of the day, is a company. THeir purpose to make money. They do this by producing books and selling them. Bad press is.. bad Press.

Palladium... putting it politely has plenty of that just now with the RTT thing. They don't need more.

So why risk it? No matter what is written it's going to anger someone. As pointed out even if you don't put anything religious at all in the book. __THAT__ Will anger some. If you DO, No matter what it is, you're going to anger half if not better than half. So it's a lose lose situation.

Why risk it? If you can produce 50 other world books before even touching it. Why touch it? Why make a risk? Palladium's producing 3 books a year.. maybe 4. If they're small or a larger book is split. Why put in a book that at the very best is going to perturb a number of people and perhaps anger them to the point of bad publicity?

Palladium -has- gotten grief about religion before. More than once. With Religions considered to be 'dead' or 'Mythical" To the point of boycotts. They've gotten grief over protrail of native peoples. Why risk it with religions of over a billion people?? (Whom I FULLY Agree are very very likely NOT to be the ones buying the book, but that said. It only takes one, then spreading it around to cause a ruckus)

I can't see them taking the risk. They don't 'NEED' to take the risk. Noone's beating down their doors for the book. Nothing else in the setting has lead up to and pointed the 'world' in that direction. It's not like there's factions there that have been mentioned as world powers but we just don't have the books for them. It's a blank spot.

The West cost of North America Still hasn't been covered after 25 years.

They've got a LONG way to go before they touch the nest of Vipers that would be the middle east.

And that's just brushing on the anger from those in the middle east or from the middle east.

That doesn't even touch the aspect of many people disliking the middle east and thus sales being reduced for THAT.

.

[Wise_Owl]

Well this got a bit away from the matter at hand, but still; No-one needs to be forced to do something they don't want to do. If Palladium Books isn't comfortable producing Rifts books set in the region than hey, more power to them. To be clear, as I said I haven't bought a Rifts book in years, so I begrudge no-one their choices in that regard.

That being said; Alif the Unseen is a Fantasy book set in the UAE about an Arab-Indian Hacker who basically figures out Allah's OS. It teems with the supernatural and also with complex issues of religion, faith, and the politics of the region. It's author, G. Willow Wilson is a Muslim Convert and writes Ms. Marvel, which is presently about a Muslim Superheroine. Why do I bring this up? Because the idea that Palladium books would publish a fantastical work called "Rifts Arabia" or whatever and it would draw some sort of massive negative publicity is laughable. How many copies do Rifts books sell in a year? Tens of Thousands perhaps? They already publish a book(Pantheons of the Megaverse) in which a god who is actively worshiped by Hundreds of Millions of people is portrayed as a Drug Addict. Unless you produced a book with Cyber-Mohamed and his suicide Bomber Mecha Squad, I think you'll be okay. Plenty of RPG companies have published plenty of things in and around the area in ways that would be far worse than a post-apocypltic weirdness factory. I guess what I'm getting at is that I think the idea of not doing a book for the reasons outlined is a bit silly. Don't have an interest in doing one? No freelancer has proposed a book thats sat right? Have a particular idea for it and you don't want anyone to do it but you haven't gotten around to it. These are all good reasons. But that some-how a book specifically just about the geographic region in question is a more serious issue? I don't buy it.

Big Kingdoms of Djinni warring with one another over Radioactive craters filled with Mutant Horrors and the cracked remnants of a destroyed Space-Elevator... or whatever. There's a million and one possibilities, though perhaps I should just write it myself. The topic was though, what books would you like to see. Hmm... a third China book wouldn' tbe bad either.

Historical Note, ignore if you don't care: Originally the term 'Middle East' referred to Iran, as well as Afghanistan and parts of India, Kakistan, etc. Basically everything between India, the Ottoman Empire, Russia and China. IT was a term that emerged out of British Imperialism, along with 'Near East' which encompassed the Ottomans, the Balkans, Greece, etc. and thus the 'Far East' of China, Japan, Korea and South East Asia. The shift to the present usage seems to have occured some-where around the World Wars. I wouldn't use it for the title of a book because it's 1)A Crappy title... and 2)Kind of Euro-centric in a way that doesn't make sense in Rifts Earth. Middle East of What? From What?

[Daniel Stoker]

So why risk it? No matter what is written it's going to anger someone. As pointed out even if you don't put anything religious at all in the book. __THAT__ Will anger some. If you DO, No matter what it is, you're going to anger half if not better than half. So it's a lose lose situation.

Beats me, I never said they should risk it. I did point out that BL's point missed that WO was suggesting to go with stuff that predated the faith of those who might get mad, but I never said they should and I did point out that I thought Kevin would in fact continue to ignore the Middle East; though I did point out my doubt of anything happening if they did much like Wise Owl also said above, but that's still not me saying they should or shouldn't.


Daniel Stoker

[Pepsi Jedi]

Well this got a bit away from the matter at hand, but still; No-one needs to be forced to do something they don't want to do. If Palladium Books isn't comfortable producing Rifts books set in the region than hey, more power to them. To be clear, as I said I haven't bought a Rifts book in years, so I begrudge no-one their choices in that regard.

That being said; Alif the Unseen is a Fantasy book set in the UAE about an Arab-Indian Hacker who basically figures out Allah's OS. It teems with the supernatural and also with complex issues of religion, faith, and the politics of the region. It's author, G. Willow Wilson is a Muslim Convert and writes Ms. Marvel, which is presently about a Muslim Superheroine. Why do I bring this up? Because the idea that Palladium books would publish a fantastical work called "Rifts Arabia" or whatever and it would draw some sort of massive negative publicity is laughable. How many copies do Rifts books sell in a year? Tens of Thousands perhaps? They already publish a book(Pantheons of the Megaverse) in which a god who is actively worshiped by Hundreds of Millions of people is portrayed as a Drug Addict. Unless you produced a book with Cyber-Mohamed and his suicide Bomber Mecha Squad, I think you'll be okay. Plenty of RPG companies have published plenty of things in and around the area in ways that would be far worse than a post-apocypltic weirdness factory. I guess what I'm getting at is that I think the idea of not doing a book for the reasons outlined is a bit silly. Don't have an interest in doing one? No freelancer has proposed a book thats sat right? Have a particular idea for it and you don't want anyone to do it but you haven't gotten around to it. These are all good reasons. But that some-how a book specifically just about the geographic region in question is a more serious issue? I don't buy it.

Big Kingdoms of Djinni warring with one another over Radioactive craters filled with Mutant Horrors and the cracked remnants of a destroyed Space-Elevator... or whatever. There's a million and one possibilities, though perhaps I should just write it myself. The topic was though, what books would you like to see. Hmm... a third China book wouldn' tbe bad either.

Historical Note, ignore if you don't care: Originally the term 'Middle East' referred to Iran, as well as Afghanistan and parts of India, Kakistan, etc. Basically everything between India, the Ottoman Empire, Russia and China. IT was a term that emerged out of British Imperialism, along with 'Near East' which encompassed the Ottomans, the Balkans, Greece, etc. and thus the 'Far East' of China, Japan, Korea and South East Asia. The shift to the present usage seems to have occured some-where around the World Wars. I wouldn't use it for the title of a book because it's 1)A Crappy title... and 2)Kind of Euro-centric in a way that doesn't make sense in Rifts Earth. Middle East of What? From What?

Is it silly? Of course it is. So is killing people in Paris over a cartoon. So is blowing up people in Brussels. It's the height of absurdity, stupidity, and just flat out wackadoodle insanity.

Doesn't mean it doesn't sometimes happen. And I think it's pretty safe to point out it happens more these days than it did in the mid 90s

I'm not trying to say it makes sense. It makes no kind of sense, but that seldom stops people that -want- to have problems with this sort of thing.

Do I think someone's going to travel to MI and blow up Palladium? Of course not.

Do I think it's very easy for people on --all sides-- of anything "Middle east" To take offense or even feign offense? Yes. SO Easy. Does that offense stretch from simple online badmouthing to bad press to boycots to even more stupid and absurd things? Yes. Palladium doesn't want -any- of that. From the bottom all the way to the insane top.

Lose lose situations are seldom beneficial to enter into if you don't have to. Palladium doesn't have to

As for what makes up the middle east.... history lessons are well and good, but largely don't mean alot when you're talking about modern perception.

Modern Perception of the Middle Ease is as I defined above.

And any way you cut it, Iran, is in the Middle East, from the dawning of the term.

[eliakon]

I would go back to some of the other books and make some 2s
I would pay good money for a Japan 2 (or China 3) or Underseas 2, or another book on England or Africa. I would also like a book set in Europe that is from the point of the monsters. Not everything has to be humancentric. I would love a book on the gargoyle kingdoms and the brodkil kingdoms and the Blood Druids and stuff.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

I would go back to some of the other books and make some 2s
I would pay good money for a Japan 2 (or China 3) or Underseas 2, or another book on England or Africa. I would also like a book set in Europe that is from the point of the monsters. Not everything has to be humancentric. I would love a book on the gargoyle kingdoms and the brodkil kingdoms and the Blood Druids and stuff.

Japan 2 would be great (actually detailing some of the other civilizations on the island, the detailing the monster kingdoms a lot more)

England... needs an overhaul/retcon/rewrite. I mean, i'd keep the whole New Camelot thing, but i'd go back and make the rest of the book actually fit with the rest of Rifts Earth; increase the size and prestige of New Camelot and the surrounding kingdoms (not into the millions or anything, but more than like 30,000 people), etc. Just tune things up to make a little more sense and make New Camelot as a potential "land of heroes saving the world" actually like.. viable. As it stands right now, a single CS Field Army could conquer everything south of Scottland in a few hours (other than perhaps London of Splynn). I would likely include the "real" London as a city forced into a pocket dimension, or perhaps far underground, which has adopted a Techno-Wizard-Steampunk aesthetic, and now trying to bring itself back to surface/Rifts Earth and having to contend with Splynncryth's forces being where "home" is.

Underseas 2 could be welcome; more depth on the New Navy and Tritonia, especially - more than 2-3 OCCs each and a few pages not dedicated to stats. Some ret-con additions to the New Navy as well (they should have SAMAS (or whatever they were called by NEMA) and some other NEMA tech, as now that Chaos Earth isn't an alternate-Rifts-Earth-where-things-were-just-a-little-different (what a mistake THAT change was...) it makes no sense for the New Navy not to have been fully kitted out in NEMA technology.

Africa... meh. I dont really see a lot of potential there without some serious retcons (as most of the continent was detailed, very briefly, with population numbers, and there's no real civilization past "Africans hunter-gathering on the plains" anywhere on the entire continent)... not that i'd be opposed to that. There were Rumors of a Wolfen Empire being in Italy a while back (complete with Palladium Fantasy's Wolfen-as-Roman-replacements "new Rome") - id move them to Carthage. If they had been in Italy all this time and actually been a power that could hold off the Gargoyles, the NGR would have known about them long ago. I think the Wolfen Empire of New Carthage could be pretty awesome, and make a good enemy for the Phoenix Empire.

Would love to see Rifts Europe fleshed out a little more (Itally, France, Spain/Portugal, Greece, the european portion of Turkey), and particularly more focus on how you can play a campaign in Europe and not be NGR troops. There are what.. two other minor civilizations (both heavily tech oriented) detailed in Poland... and no mention of the rest of Europe at all. I'd love to see some small mountain kingdoms (monster and otherwise!) and maybe a piece done on the Vampire Intelligence that lives there ('cause there has to be one in Transylvania, right?)

[eliakon]

Ugh no Wolfen. Just no. Kevin was right to totally disavow this as pure fanon and nothing more. The last thing Europe needs is another full scale nation that 'no one noticed'. That has been bad enough in North America where we have had them popping up like mushrooms after a rainstorm. It makes even less sense in a place where supposedly the NGR is the sole beacon of light against the monster hordes[sup]1[/sup]




[sup]1[/sup]except for the Russians. And the Song Warriors. And Carthage. And.......

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Ugh no Wolfen. Just no. Kevin was right to totally disavow this as pure fanon and nothing more. The last thing Europe needs is another full scale nation that 'no one noticed'. That has been bad enough in North America where we have had them popping up like mushrooms after a rainstorm. It makes even less sense in a place where supposedly the NGR is the sole beacon of light against the monster hordes[sup]1[/sup]




[sup]1[/sup]except for the Russians. And the Song Warriors. And Carthage. And.......

Why the Wolfen hate? Theyre probably the most interesting race Palladium has, 'cause their elves and dwarves are generic as all get out. At least the Wolfen have some distinct style to them.

Thats why i said i'd put them in Carthage (where there has never been anything mentioned before, to my knowledge, unless it was some tiny byline somewhere) and not Europe. Id position them as the enemy of the Phoenix Empire.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Kevin was right to totally disavow this as pure fanon and nothing more.

And uh...

if that's what he's publicly said, he's a liar.

He said it, in my presence, at Palladium's booth at Youmacon a while back. I can find a few dozen other people who were there, too.

[eliakon]

Ugh no Wolfen. Just no. Kevin was right to totally disavow this as pure fanon and nothing more. The last thing Europe needs is another full scale nation that 'no one noticed'. That has been bad enough in North America where we have had them popping up like mushrooms after a rainstorm. It makes even less sense in a place where supposedly the NGR is the sole beacon of light against the monster hordes[sup]1[/sup]




[sup]1[/sup]except for the Russians. And the Song Warriors. And Carthage. And.......

Why the Wolfen hate? Theyre probably the most interesting race Palladium has, 'cause their elves and dwarves are generic as all get out. At least the Wolfen have some distinct style to them.

Thats why i said i'd put them in Carthage (where there has never been anything mentioned before, to my knowledge, unless it was some tiny byline somewhere) and not Europe. Id position them as the enemy of the Phoenix Empire.

Because the 'Wolfen who managed to replicate Rome" already got done?

And they don't have style. Not really. They are honestly just furries....the 'style' is from social constructs (either that of Palladiums Wolfen Empire of Phase Worlds Wulfen) neither of which makes much sense.
Transporting a Wulfen colony to Earth is going to be a nightmare due to the massive tech imbalance
and the Wolfen are a no-go due to the IP separation. And if they weren't they empire hasn't really been around long enough to spawn a daughter empire that gets rifted to earth, adapts to earth and technology....

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

and the Wolfen are a no-go due to the IP separation.

What IP separation is that? The completely imaginary one that people pretend exists even though there are canon conversions, and some sourcebooks with them are published for MULTIPLE IPs, and an entire on-going story arc that isn't finished that deliberately bridges all of the IPs?

And if they weren't they empire hasn't really been around long enough to spawn a daughter empire that gets rifted to earth, adapts to earth and technology....

Time isnt necessarily congruent between the Palladium Pocket-Dimension and Rifts Earth, and Rifts themselves can move people forward or back in time. You might leave your planet at Year X and arrive on Earth in Year Y. Though im not really sure that's the issue - my experience with Palladium Fantasy is limited (i think i have the First Edition basic book somewhere...) but i was under the impression the Wolfen Empire was several hundred years old.

A group of them who ended up in Northern Africa during the Dark Ages would have had plenty of time to adapt.

I'd agree that Three Galaxies Wolfen wouldn't make a lot of sense (or maybe they could?) because of potential tech issues, but if they were forced to work with what they had here on earth for a few centuries, there's no reason they couldn't be more tech-equivalent to what's already on earth, since they dont have access to manufacturing capabilities, et al, from TTG.

And basing them on Carthage.... Carthage is NOT Rome. Other than being competing civilizations from around the same time periods, they are more different than alike.

[glitterboy2098]

actually going by the description in the books, the wolfen empire is less than a century old. though the Wolfen themselves have been around a lot longer. (it's just the unified nation and the neo-roman thing that is new)


and as far as the separation thing goes.. according to what i was told when i asked Kevin S. about it, when PB started looking into film and other spinoffs, they were advised to separate the lines more to avoid legal "who can use what" hassles if licensing for things like films go to different people.

so while you can use wolfen in rifts, in a non-conversion book product your not supposed to have direct references to PFRPG stuff coming to rifts.

this represents a change in the policy compared to earlier books though, so you still have some examples.

(actually, the example i'd asked about was elves and dwarves, but the result is basically the same)

[Zer0 Kay]

Rifts: Steampunk
A Techno Wizard Haven

Call the book Haven

nah ...call it Warehouse 13

As funny as that would be it will cause a lawsuit.

3 points of difference. Also Haven is a term while one can not say that Warehouse 13 is unrelated. Or rather it is far easier to disassociate Haven that Warehouse 13..

[Zer0 Kay]

actually going by the description in the books, the wolfen empire is less than a century old. though the Wolfen themselves have been around a lot longer. (it's just the unified nation and the neo-roman thing that is new)


and as far as the separation thing goes.. according to what i was told when i asked Kevin S. about it, when PB started looking into film and other spinoffs, they were advised to separate the lines more to avoid legal "who can use what" hassles if licensing for things like films go to different people.

so while you can use wolfen in rifts, in a non-conversion book product your not supposed to have direct references to PFRPG stuff coming to rifts.

this represents a change in the policy compared to earlier books though, so you still have some examples.

(actually, the example i'd asked about was elves and dwarves, but the result is basically the same)

Yup could never allow one company to have Rifts and another PFRPG geeze that would be like Marvel having their own studios for movies, giving Spiderman to Sony and X-Men to Fox. Dang if they did that Spiderman couldn't be in Avenger or X-men comics any more. Hey... Wait a second.

[Pepsi Jedi]

It's actually been a known thing for Palladium for a while. For a long long time it was "Crossover, anything goes, anywhere" but as Glitterboy pointed out, when palladium started wanting to/trying to farm out it's IP's it was shown to them if 'everything' was in Rifts, and they sold the rights to rifts, that the other games could be piggy backed into the IP licensing. Thus came the "Seperation"

The first time you really see it is in the RUE. where the Dragons from the RMB, which were.. of course, Dragons from Palladium Fantasy, suddenly disappear and you have funky replacements put in. To keep the IP's separate. Ever since the RUE, they try (To varying levels of success) To keep the IP's separate, so they can license them separate.

It's not a new concept for Palladium, nor is it anything that's been contested by Kevin. he's told multiple people multiple times this is -exactly- what was done and for which exact purpose.

As for your last post Zero Kay. You misunderstand. Different companies licensing out different IP's is EXACTLY what Palladium wants. Your example isn't quite apt though. When Sony got Spiderman they got ___SPIDERMAN____ Not the entire MCU. When Fox got Xmen they got ____XMEN____ Not the MCU (And the Xmen that they got were very specific. Which one's they could use and which ones they could not use.) Then the MCU started to be developed and.... suddenly there were a couple of people that were out side their perview. I.E. Spidy and the Xmen.

As to the Xmen, in specific you'll notice that there's some contention over Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch/Polaris. In the Xmen movie they have quicksilver but he's called "Peter" And is represented as "MAYBE" Magneto's kid. There's hints, just like there's hits of Polaris. In his lap at one point.

in Age of Ultron, It's Pietro Maximoff, and you never once hear the word 'Mutant" because "Mutant" is owned along with the 'Xmen" by sony. Infact the origins that they have imply that Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch were 'given' their powers.

So it was a problem. If Sony and Fox keep producing movies, even crappy ones they retain the rights. That's why you see a spiderman movie every 5 or so years, even if it sucks.

NOW.... Sony has entered into contract with the MCU to basically license BACK the ability to use spiderman. It's not free, it's not an action of good will. It's costing them money to put Spidy into Civil War. And A LOT of it.

in Kevin's Case, it wasn't that he didn't want the IP's spread around, it's that he very much DID want them spread around. Sort of the oppisite of what happened with Marvel.
He DOES Want to license Heroes Unlimited to one company. Nightbane to another company, After the Bomb to a third, and Rifts to a fourth. The problem arose when someone pointed out "You know.. if you license rifts... that company can point to this book andgo "Hey it's got ther Palladium dragons in it. we get those too. For free. And it's got Night bane in it, so we get those for free too, and it's got Heroes Unlimited chars so we get them too.

So one company could license for "Rifts" and get the entire package. All of Palladiums IPs. They didn't want that. They wanted the ability to license piece meal. Thus... the need to separate the lines.

Now there's alot to be said about "Locking the barn door once the horse is out" and all but... I'm not a lawyer. It's assumed that whom ever their lawyer was, told them to do this to attempt to separate the lines so they could be licensed individually, instead of in total.

[Blue_Lion]

Rifts: Steampunk
A Techno Wizard Haven

Call the book Haven

nah ...call it Warehouse 13

As funny as that would be it will cause a lawsuit.

3 points of difference. Also Haven is a term while one can not say that Warehouse 13 is unrelated. Or rather it is far easier to disassociate Haven that Warehouse 13..

I was talking about calling Warehouse 13 as that would be seen as direct ripping off an existing IP. Many of its devices have a steam punk feel to them.

A steam punk haven would be significantly different than the sci fi show, so would not be a rip off, it was about people with strange gifts.

[Wise_Owl]

Is it silly? Of course it is. So is killing people in Paris over a cartoon. So is blowing up people in Brussels. It's the height of absurdity, stupidity, and just flat out wackadoodle insanity.

Doesn't mean it doesn't sometimes happen. And I think it's pretty safe to point out it happens more these days than it did in the mid 90s

I'm not trying to say it makes sense. It makes no kind of sense, but that seldom stops people that -want- to have problems with this sort of thing.

Do I think someone's going to travel to MI and blow up Palladium? Of course not.

Do I think it's very easy for people on --all sides-- of anything "Middle east" To take offense or even feign offense? Yes. SO Easy. Does that offense stretch from simple online badmouthing to bad press to boycots to even more stupid and absurd things? Yes. Palladium doesn't want -any- of that. From the bottom all the way to the insane top.

Lose lose situations are seldom beneficial to enter into if you don't have to. Palladium doesn't have to

As for what makes up the middle east.... history lessons are well and good, but largely don't mean alot when you're talking about modern perception.

Modern Perception of the Middle Ease is as I defined above.

And any way you cut it, Iran, is in the Middle East, from the dawning of the term.

This simply vastly over-inflates Palladiums importance and misunderstands the structure of 'Middle Eastern' politics as well as just the production of works. There are countless works out there dealing with a Fantasy Arabia. I provided a pretty good example of one which has vastly more visibility than Palladium is realistically ever going to have(It won a host of awards, was on some best-sellers lists, etc. It's a great book incidentally to anyone who is wondering.) Palladium isn't going to 'suffer' by putting out a fantasy/Sci-Fi/Post Apocyptic pastiche of Flying Carpets, Djinni and waste-lands. If the argument is 'We are too Ignorant and would end up making Cyber-Mohamed or portraying all remaining non-Isreali's as Monsters attacking the Judaic fountain of freedom' or some other such nonesense, well fine. Good to know your limitations. I just don't really see it, or by it. Other companies can pull this off. The Fear being projected here is just weird. Like being afraid that if they made a Rifts Korea, Kim Jong Un would have the writers kidnapped for offending the glorious peoples revolution or something. It's a fear out of step with reality.

Don't do the book if you think it will be garbage. Don't do the book if you don't have any good idea's for it. Hell, don't do the book if it just doesn't interest you and you have better idea's applied elsewhere. But 'We don't want to do this because we might offend people in the middle east'... that's just odd. I think we've kind of exhausted the topic so I'll just let it drop beyond this point.

I think another Africa book would be great incidentally. Fix some of the most glaring issues with the first Africa book. I mean Africa is HUGE and what we got is a bunch of 'tribes', some traditional magic, necromancy and a whole lot about Egypt? I liked the Horseman as much as the next guy but where are the surviving technological entities of Africa? It has like 20% of the planets landmass and 15% of it's population(North America is 16.5 and 7.5% respectively). There's Euro-centricism and than there's Eurocentricism. Africa is a huge place and it's different regions and Biomes deserve some love. Throw in a techno-magical rebirth Songhai empire that acts as a weird sort of Vassal state for enemies of the Splugorth, or odd powers aligned on Coast of the Arabian Sea producing a trade in Magical Artifiacts and Biomancy across the Indian Ocean or something.

Give me another book like the Warlords of Russia, where I read it and thought "Damn, I want to put a game there, that's pretty cool!".

[Blue_Lion]

Is it silly? Of course it is. So is killing people in Paris over a cartoon. So is blowing up people in Brussels. It's the height of absurdity, stupidity, and just flat out wackadoodle insanity.

Doesn't mean it doesn't sometimes happen. And I think it's pretty safe to point out it happens more these days than it did in the mid 90s

I'm not trying to say it makes sense. It makes no kind of sense, but that seldom stops people that -want- to have problems with this sort of thing.

Do I think someone's going to travel to MI and blow up Palladium? Of course not.

Do I think it's very easy for people on --all sides-- of anything "Middle east" To take offense or even feign offense? Yes. SO Easy. Does that offense stretch from simple online badmouthing to bad press to boycots to even more stupid and absurd things? Yes. Palladium doesn't want -any- of that. From the bottom all the way to the insane top.

Lose lose situations are seldom beneficial to enter into if you don't have to. Palladium doesn't have to

As for what makes up the middle east.... history lessons are well and good, but largely don't mean alot when you're talking about modern perception.

Modern Perception of the Middle Ease is as I defined above.

And any way you cut it, Iran, is in the Middle East, from the dawning of the term.

This simply vastly over-inflates Palladiums importance and misunderstands the structure of 'Middle Eastern' politics as well as just the production of works. There are countless works out there dealing with a Fantasy Arabia. I provided a pretty good example of one which has vastly more visibility than Palladium is realistically ever going to have(It won a host of awards, was on some best-sellers lists, etc. It's a great book incidentally to anyone who is wondering.) Palladium isn't going to 'suffer' by putting out a fantasy/Sci-Fi/Post Apocyptic pastiche of Flying Carpets, Djinni and waste-lands. If the argument is 'We are too Ignorant and would end up making Cyber-Mohamed or portraying all remaining non-Isreali's as Monsters attacking the Judaic fountain of freedom' or some other such nonesense, well fine. Good to know your limitations. I just don't really see it, or by it. Other companies can pull this off. The Fear being projected here is just weird. Like being afraid that if they made a Rifts Korea, Kim Jong Un would have the writers kidnapped for offending the glorious peoples revolution or something. It's a fear out of step with reality.

Don't do the book if you think it will be garbage. Don't do the book if you don't have any good idea's for it. Hell, don't do the book if it just doesn't interest you and you have better idea's applied elsewhere. But 'We don't want to do this because we might offend people in the middle east'... that's just odd. I think we've kind of exhausted the topic so I'll just let it drop beyond this point.

I think another Africa book would be great incidentally. Fix some of the most glaring issues with the first Africa book. I mean Africa is HUGE and what we got is a bunch of 'tribes', some traditional magic, necromancy and a whole lot about Egypt? I liked the Horseman as much as the next guy but where are the surviving technological entities of Africa? It has like 20% of the planets landmass and 15% of it's population(North America is 16.5 and 7.5% respectively). There's Euro-centricism and than there's Eurocentricism. Africa is a huge place and it's different regions and Biomes deserve some love. Throw in a techno-magical rebirth Songhai empire that acts as a weird sort of Vassal state for enemies of the Splugorth, or odd powers aligned on Coast of the Arabian Sea producing a trade in Magical Artifiacts and Biomancy across the Indian Ocean or something.

Give me another book like the Warlords of Russia, where I read it and thought "Damn, I want to put a game there, that's pretty cool!".

Well with rifts use of culture stereo types in the past they very may well do the cyber mohmid you described. They do not have good ideas for the area or any desire to make good ideas. They already canned a book in the past because they deemed in insulting to the people portrayed in it. they stay away from it because there writing stile for rifts books would be offensive, and they have no desire to come up with another way to make a book they do not need.

It is not inflating palladium but their policy starting with Australia 2.