Elf Cyberknight

[(SHIFTY)]

I have a Cyberknight question. Can regular elves/Palladium elves become Cyberknights?

[kaid]

Yes cyberknight seems open to most races capable of having psionics and willing to undergo the training/accepting the code and a few that are even somewhat borderline on the psi capability area.

[Library Ogre]

Sure. No reason why not.

[ShadowLogan]

Yes, Rifts Conversion Book 1 would allow for it, and even specifically calls it out as a potential option. SoT4 doesn't have any Elf NPCs, but does have Cyber-Knight Elves depicted in the artwork at times and even mentions that 5% of all Cyber-Knigts are D-Bees of undeclared type ("Other") and a full ~24% are non-human (I'm including mutant humans as human). The Class itself doesn't have a racial requirement, so as long as the race can meet the attribute requirements you should be good.

[glitterboy2098]

yeah. as long as a race or RCC has the option to take an OCC, you can have a cyberknight of it.

[kaid]

Well in theory they also need to have psionics but there are some exemptions mentioned in both Dbee's of north america and the cyberknight book of some races that technically are not supposed to be able to have psi powers but still are listed as allowed cyberknights.

[42dragon]

That whole thing about being able to be cyberknights without having the potential for psionics now confuses me. It was fine in the RMB days when you could train to be a cyberknight just with no psionics. But now that they all get psionics even the non-psionic characters, what exactly does that mean for a race that has no psionic potential. Do they now get the automatic psionics or are they more like the original version and just a trained cyberknight without the psi-sword and other powers?

[kaid]

That whole thing about being able to be cyberknights without having the potential for psionics now confuses me. It was fine in the RMB days when you could train to be a cyberknight just with no psionics. But now that they all get psionics even the non-psionic characters, what exactly does that mean for a race that has no psionic potential. Do they now get the automatic psionics or are they more like the original version and just a trained cyberknight without the psi-sword and other powers?

Apparently at least a few of the races listed as having no PSI users have some canon ability to be cyberknights with full powers so I dunno. Then you get stuff like elemental fusionists who are restricted to human only but have some D'bees that also specifically list it as an option such as the mastadonids I think.

[blackwingedheaven]

As with any rules question, you can figure out the answer by asking yourself two questions:
1) Does it break anything? Given that this is Rifts we're talking about, the answer is almost certainly "no."
2) Will it enhance the fun of the player without damaging the fun of anyone else? The answer for something like this is almost certainly going to be "yes."

And if you can answer those two questions that way, then the only acceptable response is "Sure, why not."

I'm personally of the opinion that good GMs find a way to say "yes." Saying "no" is a sign that you don't trust your players--which is a further sign that maybe you should be playing with other people. I think a lot of traditional roleplaying games inadvertently train people to say no, creating this assumption that adversarial play is the norm.

So what if elves are normally psi-null? Maybe your character is the one in a million exception. And I know that lots of GMs have this unthinking hate for the "one in a million exception," especially if the party is seemingly full of them, but let's look at the fiction, shall we? Rifts is much more strongly influence by superhero stories and high fantasy stories than it is by traditional post-apocalyptic fiction. (It's also got some "dying earth" influence, but that has its own baggage.) If you look at the Justice League, one of the most iconic superhero groups in fiction, you have: the last son of a dead alien race, gifted with godlike powers; a billionaire playboy whose parents died in his youth, inspiring him to become one of the world's greatest martial artist and the world's greatest detective; a literal demigoddess wielding ancient artifacts; a shapechanging telepathic Martian; and the list goes on. If you look at fantasy fiction, take the Wheel of Time books, where the main characters are all reincarnations of the greatest heroes of the past, or are the prodigies in their respective fields that will shape the future.

What I'm saying here is that player characters are the main characters of the story they're in. If there are a million other elves with no psionic ability, they're just the background that makes the one psionic elf who became a cyber-knight into a player character. They create a story tension that the player character is acting in opposition to, blessed (or cursed) with this ability that none of his race can actually understand. With a decent player, that creates all kinds of potential stories and plot hooks.

The tl;dr version? If it makes the player happy and doesn't make anyone else unhappy, go for it. =)

[ShadowLogan]

That whole thing about being able to be cyberknights without having the potential for psionics now confuses me. It was fine in the RMB days when you could train to be a cyberknight just with no psionics. But now that they all get psionics even the non-psionic characters, what exactly does that mean for a race that has no psionic potential. Do they now get the automatic psionics or are they more like the original version and just a trained cyberknight without the psi-sword and other powers?

I would say they get the automatic psionics and would be considered a psychic now, even if they rolled for no extra psionics (regardless of version). Though I could see limiting it even further to just the Psi-Sword, as this is more a case of the Knight's will than anything else and seems to be a defining characteristic of the class (and required for knight-hood).

Elfs though can get psionics, same as humans.

IMHO when you roll for Psionics as a Cyber-Knight, you are really rolling for extra Psychic powers beyond the default that are taught (and in place of normal psychic power roll in character creation). I think that they are taught though is key.

[42dragon]

Well yeah, of course a GM can always rule one way or the other and that is correct for that game.

But what is the true intent of the rule? For example a Gromek, Psionics: None. (But they can take any Mat at Arms OCC except power armor) Would they get trained but no psionics? Would they get just the psi-sword? Would they get all the automatic psi-powers?

This is a race that has been proposed at a game before. This race gets 2 extra attacks, this player is clearly just after the extra attacks. And in a high powered campaign no big deal it is still SDC, but in a weaker mortal game this combination can get out of hand compared to some others.

[ShadowLogan]

It should be noted that in SoT 4 there are two NPC Cyber Knights that get discussed who's race description in DoNA has "Psionics: None" like the Gromek. (Sir Galston Kurbod is Quick-Flex Alien pg49 and Sir Gavin Grey a Vanguard Brawler pg58), and the Quick Flex Alien is 9% of the Cyber Knight population (pg23). Unfortunately they aren't fleshed out like some NPCs.

So YES a Gromek (or any other eligible race) can become a Cyber-Knight. And if using RUE/SoT4 would get the automatic powers.

Text on pg 23 of SoT 4 (and loosely in RMB in a POV fashion IIRC, but repeated in RUE) is that the automatic powers (Psi-Sword, Psi-Shield, Meditation) may in fact be Chi based "The Cyber-Knight's training is such, that ALL can call upon their Inner Strength and Spirit (ancient, pre-Rifts Oriental masters might have called this 'chi') to perform superhuman feats as follows." Which is when they get into the powers.

So they are using Chi to manifest Psychic Powers, but only apparently these powers (and maybe even their Zen Combat abilities and/or their Cyber Armor).

[Prysus]

Greetings and Salutations. If using SoT4 and RUE I'd suggest just using the options for non-psychic Cyber-Knights as the default for non-psychic races. That just makes sense to me. Note: RMB is a little different.

Azure Sky helped develop advanced martial arts training that enabled the knights in training to draw upon their inner spirit (chi and P.P.E.). It was this combination of building upon and using both mind and body that enabled the Cyber-Knights to create the Psi-Sword...
[snip]
This unique system of combat... goes beyond mere physical training and takes on aspects of ancient Oriental mysticism.

... no natural psionics, but years of physical training and spiritual awakening will give the character the psionic powers noted above, as well as all other Cyber-Knight skills and abilities.

A similar note (to the one on page 24) 50 is found in RUE on page 64 under the "Non-Psychic Cyber-Knight" option. That should at least help with an official answer. In the end you need to decide what's right for your game. Farewell and safe journeys.

[Blue_Lion]

PG 87 conversion book 1 revised.
"Thus, an elf is far more likely to be a knight/Cyber-knight, warrior of renown, scientist, doctor or wizard than a vagabond or common thief."

so the book says they can be cyber-knight. the Psi of elves is the same as humans not sure why so much time has been spent to come up with can elves be cyber-knights.

[Axelmania]

cyberknight seems open to most races capable of having psionics

and to many with no such capability