Savage Rifts Kickstarter - April 26th - May 19th

[kaid]

It is personal preference but a lot of companies go the full color stuff even when it makes no sense such as some of the small pathfinder supplements that are like 20 dollars for a 20-30 page booklet. The prettier look gets offset by disappointing lack of information and actual content. I have always been happy with the look/feel of palladium books and have in general have had high quality artists working with their books from kevin long in the beginning to the new crop of artists who have really been knocking it out of the park on the recent materials.

[Sureshot]

It is personal preference but a lot of companies go the full color stuff even when it makes no sense such as some of the small pathfinder supplements that are like 20 dollars for a 20-30 page booklet. The prettier look gets offset by disappointing lack of information and actual content. I have always been happy with the look/feel of palladium books and have in general have had high quality artists working with their books from kevin long in the beginning to the new crop of artists who have really been knocking it out of the park on the recent materials.

I sort of agree about the smaller sourcebooks. Pathfinder being popular and from the looks of it they do well enough for Paizo to keep selling them. The larger hardcovers like it or not the current prices are the industry standard. It bothers me when some in the hobby imply that they are getting ripped off without saying that. When they are not. Now if the majority of the rpg companies were selling at PB prices. Then one can say were getting ripped off. When the industry as a whole whether it's low or high production values still sell the same product at same prices. With all due respect were not getting ripped off imo. AS I keep saying. Your not getting tommorow rpgs now at yesterdays prices. I get your point. Yet as long as the majority of the fanbase in gaming has no problems with the pricing. Nothing will change imo.

[everloss]

The color art is nice but it adds both time and cost palladium has done a good job keeping the price of even big supplements to super reasonable levels. A lot of full color RPG books are either smaller format such as many of the savage world books or 30-40 bucks per book almost everybody else.

I rather pay 30-40$ for better production values and color art. Which by the way is the industry standard for most if almost all current rpg companies. I get they want to keep the cost of their books down. That does cost them in terms of fans. I know a few who won't even look at a PB product even with the cheaper price. As they hate the low production values.

Not to mention that a lot of those full color, hardcover books tend to fall apart pretty quickly from poor binding.

What exactly do you mean by low production value? Thick paper and indestructible binding seem like good production value to me. As for the art, I've found the art in the newer books to be wanting. The older books had amazing black and white art, though.

Value means different things to different people. What you do not like, other people do. Palladium fills a market niche, and has for 30 years.

[kaid]

The color art is nice but it adds both time and cost palladium has done a good job keeping the price of even big supplements to super reasonable levels. A lot of full color RPG books are either smaller format such as many of the savage world books or 30-40 bucks per book almost everybody else.

I rather pay 30-40$ for better production values and color art. Which by the way is the industry standard for most if almost all current rpg companies. I get they want to keep the cost of their books down. That does cost them in terms of fans. I know a few who won't even look at a PB product even with the cheaper price. As they hate the low production values.

Not to mention that a lot of those full color, hardcover books tend to fall apart pretty quickly from poor binding.

What exactly do you mean by low production value? Thick paper and indestructible binding seem like good production value to me. As for the art, I've found the art in the newer books to be wanting. The older books had amazing black and white art, though.

Value means different things to different people. What you do not like, other people do. Palladium fills a market niche, and has for 30 years.

While the art values on things like the 20 dollar 20-30 page pathfinder books is good if I spend 20 dollars and get a 190+ page palladium book there is an awful lot more artwork most of it very high quality. Also you don't have to worry about the heat from your fingers melting/smearing the color ink some of these supplements use and I have never in 30 years had a palladium books binding fail on me and lose pages and some of my old ones spent a lot of years in my back pack and are beat to hell. Now I do enjoy a good full color book so maybe having a special book here and there get the full color treatment could be cool but overall a lot of companies seem to overuse the color treatment to make up for lack of useful info for supplements.

[Sureshot]

Not to mention that a lot of those full color, hardcover books tend to fall apart pretty quickly from poor binding.

I have also had a few PB books fall apart as well. Hardcover or softcover neither is immune to falling apart. Or the random chance of getting one from a bad printing run. Neither is immune to falling aprt..

What exactly do you mean by low production value? Thick paper and indestructible binding seem like good production value to me. As for the art, I've found the art in the newer books to be wanting. The older books had amazing black and white art, though.

Lack of any real flow. Stuff from one section leads into another. No index. Copy and paste errors. Recycled art sometimes too much so. Poorly defined terms rules. Sometimes buried in a section
where it has no business being in the first place. I enjoy the books they are not perfect by any means. I find the modern stuff easier to read. They have a index and if I want to find a rule it's in the right section.

Value means different things to different people. What you do not like, other people do. Palladium fills a market niche, and has for 30 years.

Great I get I get you like the layout. Some of us don't. Being in the business for 30 years. Does in no way shape or form make PB immune to criticism. Or any other rpg company for that matter. I'm a fan of Paizo and Pathfinder I'm just as critical with them as I am with PB.

[kaid]

Just in the way of an actual example take for instance the following

Pathfinder Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Heaven Unleashed price 22.99$ soft covered 64 pages.

Rifts Northern Gun 2 price 27.00$ soft covered TWO HUNDRED AND FIFITY SIX PAGES. Literally four times the content for 4 dollars more price.

Rifts Minion war 18.71 soft covered 192 pages. This is even less expensive than the path finder book and still nearly 4 times larger.


While I do like pathfinder every time I buy one of their supplements a part of me asks what the hell am I doing thats a lot of money to drop on something this small. I have never once felt that palladium did not give me great value for my cash their smaller supplements like the merc adventures are priced right for their size and their big books are insanely high quantity/quality to cost compared to damn near anybody in the industry these days.

[Sureshot]

While the art values on things like the 20 dollar 20-30 page pathfinder books is good if I spend 20 dollars and get a 190+ page palladium book there is an awful lot more artwork most of it very high quality. Also you don't have to worry about the heat from your fingers melting/smearing the color ink some of these supplements use and I have never in 30 years had a palladium books binding fail on me and lose pages and some of my old ones spent a lot of years in my back pack and are beat to hell. Now I do enjoy a good full color book so maybe having a special book here and there get the full color treatment could be cool but overall a lot of companies seem to overuse the color treatment to make up for lack of useful info for supplements.

Again i get your point. The problem is if enough of the fanbase are willing to pay what the market is selling the product at and do without any complaints. It's not going to get any cheaper. Even then appearence still very much matters. PB are functional. A few even beautiful. The majority are functional. While it gets the job done at the gaming table. They don't catch the interest as much as the ones with better production values. I'm not impressed with the finger smearing on the pages from some rpg publishers who know better. It's one thing if it's a small time rpg publisher. Unacceptable in terms of bigger publishers. It's not like it's something you can hide.

[Sureshot]

Just in the way of an actual example take for instance the following

Pathfinder Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Heaven Unleashed price 22.99$ soft covered 64 pages.

Rifts Northern Gun 2 price 27.00$ soft covered TWO HUNDRED AND FIFITY SIX PAGES. Literally four times the content for 4 dollars more price.

Rifts Minion war 18.71 soft covered 192 pages. This is even less expensive than the path finder book and still nearly 4 times larger.


While I do like pathfinder every time I buy one of their supplements a part of me asks what the hell am I doing thats a lot of money to drop on something this small. I have never once felt that palladium did not give me great value for my cash their smaller supplements like the merc adventures are priced right for their size and their big books are insanely high quantity/quality to cost compared to damn near anybody in the industry these days.

Unless the rpg fanbase as a whole decides to stop buying products as a large group. Those prices won't get cheaper. Paizo wanted to release less material. The fans from the looks of it want more. No one getting ripped off in the hobby. In the end your not forced to buy any product. Myself I refuse to buy any Pathfinder versions of new rpgs anymore. If a rpg publisher is not offering at least 50%+ new material in the core of a new edition. I'm just not interested. You have made your point. The current rpg market is proving you wrong. If the majority were not interested in high production values. Those would either go out of business or publish their books like PB does.

[Sureshot]

I brought this up before. What is PB policy on conversions. With SW fans will want to convert PB material to SW and vice versa and post them here. Will thier be exceptions made to PB no conversions policy?

[kaid]

I have to assume the license has some allowances for conversions as it sounds like some of the iconic frame work stuff is built specifically so you can mimic favorite OCCs.

[Damian Magecraft]

I brought this up before. What is PB policy on conversions. With SW fans will want to convert PB material to SW and vice versa and post them here. Will thier be exceptions made to PB no conversions policy?

a thread in the Bugs and fixes forum suggests that Kevin and co. are now aware of the potential conversion issue and should be addressing it.
Given the history of the Forums I would say we will know/hear/see something pertaining to it at the last possible moment.

[Daniel Stoker]

And we have another update and more stretch goals:

We have an exciting new Stretch Goal for you! Actually, several.

After considering all the requests to print Stretch Goal PDFs like playing D-Bees and Dog Boys and Dragons (yes Dragons! see below), or additional weapons and gear, we decided to try making the Player's Guide BIGGER!

This is something we've never done before in our graphic novel format, but since this Kickstarter is really something special, we've decided to do something special too.

We can't promise all of the material being offered as PDF stretch goals will make it into the expanded Player's Guide, but we'll do our best. The retail price after the Kickstarter will be higher, but we don't know by how much yet. You fine folks backing our Kickstarter, of course, are not paying any more for the bigger book—that's why it's a stretch goal for $300,000. (And yes, of course there are more Stretch Goals before that!)

Our merchant level friends may be especially excited about this announcement since they now get a greater than 50% discount on their package if we hit $300,000. We hope this starts people playing Savage Rifts® in their store every week. So please tell your FLGS!

It's also another reason for your friends to back at the Player's Guide level: they get the book at retail price PLUS all the Stretch Goal material, including Bookmarks and Character Folio! So you do nothing to get a bigger book. Just tell all your friends and help us hit $300,000 goal.
Three Weeks

This will delay the books by 3 weeks. We're already working on the material and ordering art. We have a plan to make this work pretty quickly, but it's still a lot of extra work from all our team.

We figured the vast majority of you won't mind a potential delay in exchange for all this material worked into the print versions, but of course if that does bother you, we understand if you need to withdraw your pledge.
The EU Solution

As we've said for a while with both this and our previous projects, we are constantly looking at new shipping solutions to the EU. Even working with great partners overseas hasn't saved much once they add in the additional labor and freight. Companies with higher volume than ours get better rates, but we're still a little company and just can't get the same kinds of discounts that some others do.

But we do have at least a partial solution for our friends in the EU, and we're continuing to look for even more. We just don't want to promise anything until we know for sure it will work. (Sorry, Australia and Canada, we still don't have a better solution for you.)

What we have been able to work out means that customers in the EU pay no VAT or customs taxes. (We're paying it.)

For some of you, this means a savings of around $100 on the highest tier package. The process is this: we ship a palletload of prepackaged, prelabeled boxes to our friends in Germany and pay the customs as a publisher. They ship to you, if you live in the European Union. We reimburse them the postage.

Right now we have a little over 100 backers coming from the EU, but no way to tell if they are print or PDF backers. This is an experiment for us, and does not yet mean a reduction in the other shipping costs (we can't alter the reward levels anyway—Kickstarter locks them as soon as one person backs at that level, to protect you).

Do you know of a warehouse in Canada or Australia who will reship a palletload of boxes? Have them email Jodi at PEGJodi@gmail.com. So far it hasn't worked out with the usual suspects, but we'll keep trying for you.
New Stretch Goals

I bet you jumped down here to read the stretch goals already, didn't you?

$210,000 D-Bee: Quick-Flex Another very popular D-Bee race, the Quick-Flex live up to their names, excellent in combat and vehicle operation. (PDF)

$220,000 EX-5 Behemoth The "mobile home" of Robot Armor vehicles, the venerable and beloved Behemoth Explorer is a fortress on the move for your Tomorrow Legion team. (PDF)

$230,000 The Contamination Principle Adventure by Darrell Hayhurst Darrell Hayhurst has worked on Hard Vacuum, Ninja Crusade 2nd Edition, Codex Infernus, AMP Year 3, Torg Eternity with Shane, and now Savage RIFTS®. (PDF)

$240,000 D-Bee: N'mbyr Gorilla Man An iconic D-Bee race, found in many `Burbs around Chi-Town and elsewhere, and notable for its resemblance to Earth-born simians. (PDF)

$250,000 Character Folio in Print! Players and GMs alike, take note! This booklet will have a character sheet for filling out and pages for notes, character portraits, maps, NPC rosters, and more, so your character is ready to play anytime! Note: This Stretch Goal will be delivered to physical backers in print; everyone will receive a PDF copy.

$260,000 D-Bee: Lyn-Srial The Golden Ones are a winged race of protectors and peacekeepers, many earning their other nickname, the Sky-Knights. (PDF)

$270,000 Playing a Flame Wing Dragon by Sean Patrick Fannon The chance to play a genuine dragon is one of the legacies of RIFTS®. We’ll detail how to create and play a Dragon Hatchling, including special abilities and Edges for this unique Iconic Framework. (PDF)

$280,000 Murderthon PDF Adventure by Ross Watson Ross cranks out a second adventure! (PDF)

$290,000 Coalition Field Manual by Sean Patrick Fannon The armor, vehicles, weapons, and other gear of the Coalition States are some of the most coveted on the Black Market, and most despaired by any on the wrong side of a conflict with them. (PDF)

$300,000 Bigger Player’s Guide! (Print) We’ll add as many of the digital Stretch Goals into the Player’s Guide *in print* and into the final PDF. Retail price on the Player’s Guide at this point will be higher than $19.99, so backers are getting a more expensive book—a more comprehensive Player’s Guide—for free!

That's lots of news...please go share it! And thank you for your support.

Daniel Stoker

[BuzzardB]

Pathfinder Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Heaven Unleashed price 22.99$ soft covered 64 pages.

Rifts Northern Gun 2 price 27.00$ soft covered TWO HUNDRED AND FIFITY SIX PAGES. Literally four times the content for 4 dollars more price.

Rifts Minion war 18.71 soft covered 192 pages. This is even less expensive than the path finder book and still nearly 4 times larger.

Yeah Paizos prices really run the gambit of being a really good deal to making me hesitant on a purchase. I mean their Core Rulebook is full colour, hardcover, 578 pages and only like $33 on amazon. $10 more for 9x as many pages as that heaven unleashed book.

[Sureshot]

I'm not surprised that it's now only being looked into. You think it's something that they would do before the Kickstarting. I don't see why we can't do conversions it remains to be seen what they want to do.

[MurderCityDisciple]

I wonder if Palladium has the rights to publish stuff for the Savage Worlds line or not?

That would be very interesting.

[Damian Magecraft]

I wonder if Palladium has the rights to publish stuff for the Savage Worlds line or not?

That would be very interesting.

in all likelihood it is a one way deal. (On the product end).

[Shark_Force]

palladium doesn't have enough time to get their own product through the pipeline. i can't imagine what would possess them to add more onto that.

[MurderCityDisciple]

palladium doesn't have enough time to get their own product through the pipeline. i can't imagine what would possess them to add more onto that.

They do what they do every year.
Promise to release 20+ titles and end up coming out with 3. Just shoehorn in a few Savage Rifts compatible ones...with all the 'heat' the new line is generating they'd more than likely get done.

If they just re-statted old books for Savage Worlds...it'd be Click, Copy, Jam Some New Stuff In and Paste. That's Palladium's greatest strength.

[oni no won]

I love the art. I wish PB could do the same. Black and white is all good but the color illustrations just make it more dynamic to me at least.

RIFTS Ultimate would make you very happy then! Most of the color artwork is from the dead ccg but they are gorgeous!

[Daniel Stoker]

Hopefully the SW Rifts will offer enough of a toolkit for SW players to do their own conversions from Palladium books, thus entice them to become PB customers.

My first project will be a Savage Chaos Rifts as I often enjoy playing during the Apocalypse more than afterwards.

Well ask and you shall receive:

Updated Stretch Goal for $240K

We're heeding the call many of you made for something we know will be extremely popular—a special PDF entitled Savaging Your Favorite Rifts® Ideas!

You've all read and heard that bringing Rifts® to the Savage Worlds rules is an exercise in translation and artful design rather than conversion. However, there are some very useful guidelines that will help you think through the process of translating your favorite O.C.C., D-Bee, and gear into the Savage Rifts® paradigm, and we're sharing those with you when we hit this Stretch Goal just as you requested!

This is the updated stretch goal for $240,000:

$240,000 Savaging Your Favorite Rifts® Ideas by Sean Patrick Fannon. Sean provides guidelines for bringing material into your Savage Rifts® game from the original source material published by Palladium Books, Inc. (PDF)

Daniel Stoker

[palladiumjunkie]

Hopefully the SW Rifts will offer enough of a toolkit for SW players to do their own conversions from Palladium books, thus entice them to become PB customers.

My first project will be a Savage Chaos Rifts as I often enjoy playing during the Apocalypse more than afterwards.

Well ask and you shall receive:

Updated Stretch Goal for $240K

We're heeding the call many of you made for something we know will be extremely popular—a special PDF entitled Savaging Your Favorite Rifts® Ideas!

You've all read and heard that bringing Rifts® to the Savage Worlds rules is an exercise in translation and artful design rather than conversion. However, there are some very useful guidelines that will help you think through the process of translating your favorite O.C.C., D-Bee, and gear into the Savage Rifts® paradigm, and we're sharing those with you when we hit this Stretch Goal just as you requested!

This is the updated stretch goal for $240,000:

$240,000 Savaging Your Favorite Rifts® Ideas by Sean Patrick Fannon. Sean provides guidelines for bringing material into your Savage Rifts® game from the original source material published by Palladium Books, Inc. (PDF)

Daniel Stoker

Was just coming over to post this, myself.

-Chris

[Sureshot]

RIFTS Ultimate would make you very happy then! Most of the color artwork is from the dead ccg but they are gorgeous!

Which I already have and agree for the most part on the art. Some of it I did not like.

[Damian Magecraft]

Hopefully the SW Rifts will offer enough of a toolkit for SW players to do their own conversions from Palladium books, thus entice them to become PB customers.

My first project will be a Savage Chaos Rifts as I often enjoy playing during the Apocalypse more than afterwards.

Well ask and you shall receive:

Updated Stretch Goal for $240K

We're heeding the call many of you made for something we know will be extremely popular—a special PDF entitled Savaging Your Favorite Rifts® Ideas!

You've all read and heard that bringing Rifts® to the Savage Worlds rules is an exercise in translation and artful design rather than conversion. However, there are some very useful guidelines that will help you think through the process of translating your favorite O.C.C., D-Bee, and gear into the Savage Rifts® paradigm, and we're sharing those with you when we hit this Stretch Goal just as you requested!

This is the updated stretch goal for $240,000:

$240,000 Savaging Your Favorite Rifts® Ideas by Sean Patrick Fannon. Sean provides guidelines for bringing material into your Savage Rifts® game from the original source material published by Palladium Books, Inc. (PDF)

Daniel Stoker

$240,000 Stretch Goal Unlocked!

Now we just need to get that $300,000 Stretch goal (can't go wrong with a bigger Players Guide).

[Daniel Stoker]

My fingers are crossed, we're almost at $250K this morning and I think it should be able to manage another $50K in 14 days.


Daniel Stoker

[MurderCityDisciple]

My fingers are crossed, we're almost at $250K this morning and I think it should be able to manage another $50K in 14 days.


Daniel Stoker

Wow RIFTS fever has erupted. Never thought it'd get this big.

Kevin if you read this....time for another Palladium RIFTS Kickstarter. From now on all books should be dual statted for both systems.
Strike NOW while the iron is hot.
Don't miss this opportunity to get some more long time Palladium fans.
I can feel the enthusiasm, imagination and creativity surging.

[oni no won]

My fingers are crossed, we're almost at $250K this morning and I think it should be able to manage another $50K in 14 days.


Daniel Stoker

Wow RIFTS fever has erupted. Never thought it'd get this big.

Kevin if you read this....time for another Palladium RIFTS Kickstarter. From now on all books should be dual statted for both systems.
Strike NOW while the iron is hot.
Don't miss this opportunity to get some more long time Palladium fans.
I can feel the enthusiasm, imagination and creativity surging.

Please no dual stat books! During the d20 craze, some companies did those dual stat books for their original system and d20 and I felt I paid xtra for pages that were no use to me or for which I did not cared for at all.

[Shark_Force]

My fingers are crossed, we're almost at $250K this morning and I think it should be able to manage another $50K in 14 days.


Daniel Stoker

Wow RIFTS fever has erupted. Never thought it'd get this big.

Kevin if you read this....time for another Palladium RIFTS Kickstarter. From now on all books should be dual statted for both systems.
Strike NOW while the iron is hot.
Don't miss this opportunity to get some more long time Palladium fans.
I can feel the enthusiasm, imagination and creativity surging.

no, he really really REALLY shouldn't do that.

the problem with his crowdfunded books was not a lack of interest in or excitement for the books.

it was that people paid for the product and then waited for a ridiculous amount of time for them, after having already paid for the books and being promised them in a few months.

i'm sure he means well, but every single time he promises a certain time frame for when books will come out, it is wildly inaccurate (with the exception of when it is literally at the printer), and that causes problems when you're taking people's money before the product is finished (well, it causes problems even when you haven't taken people's money before the product is finished also, but it causes a lot more problems when you have because people get a lot more upset when they've paid for something and have not received what they paid for). a lot of people feel like there was a major betrayal of their trust over it.

unless there have been some very major changes at palladium (like, seriously major... like "kevin sold the company and is now working exclusively as a writer and editor (maybe artist too), and they also have more than one editor, and the new owner isn't investing with the goal of making money first and foremost, and is a huge fan of palladium just looking to free up kevin's time from random phone calls, layout, etc". i mean, if something like that happened, assuming i don't instantly die of shock, i would be pretty optimistic about a new crowdfunding effort. otherwise, just no. crowdfunding is a great idea for a lot of companies and ideas, but palladium should stay far far away from it. to do otherwise is just to go looking for trouble.

[Daniel Stoker]

And as of this morning they're over $260K so only 39K more needed in 13 days to get the expanded Players Guide.


Daniel Stoker

[MurderCityDisciple]

And as of this morning they're over $260K so only 39K more needed in 13 days to get the expanded Players Guide.


Daniel Stoker

I am going to back it when I get paid next Friday. Go Rifts Go!

I think the smart thing to do is dual stat books. I know some folks disagree with it, but what could it hurt? Just put the dual stats in the back of the book, separate from the original.

This could be really BIG for Palladium. With the retro gaming craze going on now, Palladium nostalgia with the right bump could get big.

[Forar]

And as of this morning they're over $260K so only 39K more needed in 13 days to get the expanded Players Guide.

And then 700k more to make it the second PB (adjacent) 1m+ campaign!

>.>

Seriously though folks, this is (most likely) why you don't trust 1st day Kicktraq estimates.

Demand in the first 6 hours will *not* hold up across the entirety of the following X weeks.

[Damian Magecraft]

And as of this morning they're over $260K so only 39K more needed in 13 days to get the expanded Players Guide.

And then 700k more to make it the second PB (adjacent) 1m+ campaign!

>.>

Seriously though folks, this is (most likely) why you don't trust 1st day Kicktraq estimates.

Demand in the first 6 hours will *not* hold up across the entirety of the following X weeks.

I never trusted Kicktraq estimates.
What I do trust are trends based on the last 10 days transactions (and those only barely).

[kaid]

And as of this morning they're over $260K so only 39K more needed in 13 days to get the expanded Players Guide.

And then 700k more to make it the second PB (adjacent) 1m+ campaign!

>.>

Seriously though folks, this is (most likely) why you don't trust 1st day Kicktraq estimates.

Demand in the first 6 hours will *not* hold up across the entirety of the following X weeks.

Although most kick starter activity tends to happen at the start for the first few days and then the last 2-3 days as a lot of folks wait to see if it is funded then wait for all the stretch goals to appear before they pounce.

[Jefffar]

I was thinking there was a couple more days of really big gains to be had based on the first few hours which would have it in striking range of the million f. or the last couple of days.

It slowed down a lot faster than I thought. Still, if it chugs up into .5M territory before the last week we could see some really big numbers at the finish

[JackMann]

Hey, long time Savage. Saw the thread and thought I'd pop in and answer a few questions. I'm not associated with the Kickstarter, but I've done game design in Savage Worlds before, both doing freelance work for Pinnacle, writing my own stuff, and conversion work for a client.

Savage Worlds has a license that's about halfway between an open license like d20 or FATE and a closed license like RIFTS or World of Darkness. Fan work is pretty much fair game, so long as you're not reproducing their content. If you want to publish it, you need to get their approval. It's not terribly onerous, but they want decent production values (okay art, good lay-out) and a decent product that matches their standards. Their standards aren't super high, but they're high enough to avoid shovelware like the d20 glut.

So if Palladium wanted to make Savage Worlds products of their own, they could do so fairly easily. This would likely consist of Kevin e-mailing Shane with his idea, getting it okayed, and then, once it's written, having Pinnacle's people look it over. They'd let them know if anything needed to be changed, make suggestions, and then it'd go up for publishing.

Now, whether or not Kevin is interested in doing so, and can write in a dramatically different fashion from RIFTS style, is a question only he can answer.

I would also say that anyone who wants to do a Kickstarter for a book should have the book mostly written before the Kickstarter begins, so the money can go towards lay-out, art, and printing. The writing is whether things tend to go wrong the easiest. This is not really the way Kevin normally works either, but it's the best way to run a Kickstarter.

The Kickstarter's slowed down quite a bit, which is normal. There will likely be a bit of a hockeystick effect in the last few days, as people who were on the fence make their decision. I think it'll probably end up somewhere between $350K and $450K, which is pretty good for a tabletop RPG.

[Forar]

Although most kick starter activity tends to happen at the start for the first few days and then the last 2-3 days as a lot of folks wait to see if it is funded then wait for all the stretch goals to appear before they pounce.

I'm aware of this.

It was pointed at the folks who were looking at the Kicktraq estimates and believing it could be a 1/2/3+ million dollar project based on 6 hours of data for a month'ish long campaign.

The tail end bump is also generally assumed to be tied to the 'reminder emails' going out 48 hours before the campaign closes, and those who are backing or thinking of backing having to 'crap or get off the pot'.

[Jerell]

As long as it gets over 300k I'll be happy, I'm hoping for the expanded book. Now if someone could just make some cool new cyber knight, deadboy and leyline walker minis...

[Forar]

Yeah, 300k is all but locked in, with them at 280 as of this morning.

I can even see the tail end pushing up to 400/500k or a bit beyond. Which is great.

[Daniel Stoker]

Yeah, $300K seems like a sure bet at this point, so I'm pretty darn happy but I'm interested to see what additional stretch goals they'll add next.


Daniel Stoker

[fbdaury]

I love the art. I wish PB could do the same. Black and white is all good but the color illustrations just make it more dynamic to me at least.

The color art is nice but it adds both time and cost palladium has done a good job keeping the price of even big supplements to super reasonable levels. A lot of full color RPG books are either smaller format such as many of the savage world books or 30-40 bucks per book almost everybody else.

Palladium has kept their page count high compared to their price by poor editing that takes up more space to convey less material, recycling artwork (and a lot of that art is pretty substandard as well, btw), and liberally re-printing material that was already presented in other books. I would rather have a smaller book with more info, better layout, and better art all in addition to a superior gaming system, even if it did raise the price some. But ymmv.

[Shawn Merrow]

Yeah, 300k is all but locked in, with them at 280 as of this morning.

I can even see the tail end pushing up to 400/500k or a bit beyond. Which is great.

If it has the normal spike in the last two days I'm expecting around 500K too.

[MurderCityDisciple]

I love the art. I wish PB could do the same. Black and white is all good but the color illustrations just make it more dynamic to me at least.

The color art is nice but it adds both time and cost palladium has done a good job keeping the price of even big supplements to super reasonable levels. A lot of full color RPG books are either smaller format such as many of the savage world books or 30-40 bucks per book almost everybody else.

Palladium has kept their page count high compared to their price by poor editing that takes up more space to convey less material, recycling artwork (and a lot of that art is pretty substandard as well, btw), and liberally re-printing material that was already presented in other books. I would rather have a smaller book with more info, better layout, and better art all in addition to a superior gaming system, even if it did raise the price some. But ymmv.

Yeah most of the information you need could be conveyed in bullet points. Instead Palladium chooses to write what amounts to fiction and you have to fish out the info which is buried in the text.

[Forar]

To be fair, it being a '1d6x100+20 per level' word count for a given section can really add up as the topics of a given book go by.

[JackMann]

I love the art. I wish PB could do the same. Black and white is all good but the color illustrations just make it more dynamic to me at least.

The color art is nice but it adds both time and cost palladium has done a good job keeping the price of even big supplements to super reasonable levels. A lot of full color RPG books are either smaller format such as many of the savage world books or 30-40 bucks per book almost everybody else.

Palladium has kept their page count high compared to their price by poor editing that takes up more space to convey less material, recycling artwork (and a lot of that art is pretty substandard as well, btw), and liberally re-printing material that was already presented in other books. I would rather have a smaller book with more info, better layout, and better art all in addition to a superior gaming system, even if it did raise the price some. But ymmv.

Yeah most of the information you need could be conveyed in bullet points. Instead Palladium chooses to write what amounts to fiction and you have to fish out the info which is buried in the text.

A lot of people don't get that writing an RPG book is largely technical writing. You want it to be entertaining too, but by-and-large the purpose of an RPG sourcebook is to act as a reference. This has been a problem in the industry going back to Gygax. If you look at the early D&D sourcebooks, the rules are buried in paragraphs of text, there are a lot of charts, but no index, and the language is often florid and hard to follow. This isn't unexpected, given that Gygax was making something new and didn't have any examples to follow. Unfortunately, that meant the example most people followed was his, and it took a long time for people to start thinking critically about how gamebooks were laid out (among other assumptions in RPGs).

[Damian Magecraft]

Yeah most of the information you need could be conveyed in bullet points. Instead Palladium chooses to write what amounts to fiction and you have to fish out the info which is buried in the text.

A lot of people don't get that writing an RPG book is largely technical writing. You want it to be entertaining too, but by-and-large the purpose of an RPG sourcebook is to act as a reference. This has been a problem in the industry going back to Gygax. If you look at the early D&D sourcebooks, the rules are buried in paragraphs of text, there are a lot of charts, but no index, and the language is often florid and hard to follow. This isn't unexpected, given that Gygax was making something new and didn't have any examples to follow. Unfortunately, that meant the example most people followed was his, and it took a long time for people to start thinking critically about how gamebooks were laid out (among other assumptions in RPGs).

except you also need convey information about the setting as well...
Technical writing will not sell a setting.

[Daniel Stoker]

Well we're over 300K and hit the last stretch goal:

$300,000 Bigger Player’s Guide! (Print) We’ll add as many as we can of the digital Stretch Goals into the Player’s Guide *in print* and into the final PDF. Retail price on the Player’s Guide at this point will be higher than $19.99, so backers are getting a more expensive book—a more comprehensive Player’s Guide—for free!


Daniel Stoker

[kaid]

At the rate its going I feel pretty confident it gets to around the 500k mark and maybe above before this is done it started picking up speed a bit again today it seems. Honestly if they can incorporate a lot of the stuff previously mentioned into the players guide at this 300k range I will be super stoked. Also by the end of this I am going to want to upgrade for a print map which their early design looks nice and maybe the box to hold all the stuff which would work well on my new shelves in my bedroom.

[Tiree]

At the rate its going I feel pretty confident it gets to around the 500k mark and maybe above before this is done it started picking up speed a bit again today it seems. Honestly if they can incorporate a lot of the stuff previously mentioned into the players guide at this 300k range I will be super stoked. Also by the end of this I am going to want to upgrade for a print map which their early design looks nice and maybe the box to hold all the stuff which would work well on my new shelves in my bedroom.

I don't know their over 300k stretch goals seem a bit underwhelming...

[Daniel Stoker]

A bit? But I'd rather have underwhelming ones then have them bite off more then they can chew and have it push things back or just mess it up.


Daniel Stoker

[Forar]

I think it's already being pushed back, someone in the comments was saying that the estimate for pdf delivery had gone from 1 month to 2.

[Daniel Stoker]

I thought they pushed the books back when they added to the players handbook?


Daniel Stoker