Savage Rifts, how much will it help?

[Alpha 11]

So, do you all think this will help out Palladium at all?

[Shawn Merrow]

Well there is money for the license. They have announced they are not planning to reprint all the setting info and have advised people to buy the books by Palladium for that. For example the Glitter Boy preview they posted does not have as much detail in its stats (size, weight, etc.) as you find in the books by Palladium. I'm hopping this will give them a bump in their PDF sales on DriveThruRPG for people wanting that extra information.

[Jefffar]

The big question is how the licencing arrangement was made and how popular the Savage Worlds version turns out to be.

If the licence is a large amount up front, that helps Palladium out now, paying down bills and getting languishing projects the needed funds to reach completion.

If the deal is more about a percentage over time, then the immediate effects will be much less, but there is the potential to reap significant long term rewards if the game sells well for an extended period, results in further new material. If it doesn't do well, there's not much for Palladium in this model.


Aside from the money, this is a chance to raise Palladium's public profile in a positive way which should result in more sales.

[Shark_Force]

i can't imagine it wouldn't help palladium "at all". i mean, if nothing else, it's publicity, and palladium is presumably getting paid *something* for the license.

how much it will help is, of course, not as easily measured.

[Spinachcat]

It will be positive. How much is unknown. We will need to see what happens about 6 months after Savage Rifts hits the store shelves. It will be interesting to see if there is an uptick in the PB forums.

[ffranceschi]

So, do you all think this will help out Palladium at all?

YES. No doubt about it.

[Alpha 11]

i can't imagine it wouldn't help palladium "at all". i mean, if nothing else, it's publicity, and palladium is presumably getting paid *something* for the license.

how much it will help is, of course, not as easily measured.

Well, after the RTT KS problems with Wave 2, that is what I'm hoping for, so good publicity. I also won't be surprised if they did this to make sure they stay above the red line in the long term.

[wilycoyote]

Well I see where you are coming from , as another RTT backer /player, but do not believe this will make things move any quicker.

RIFTS I would suggest is PB's most "commercial" product but in my opinion is diogged by the all to familiar issue of great background but clunky rules to implement them. I am a fan of the Savage Worlds system and so see this as a positive step for the RIFTS universe

However, I would suggest the monies that PB will get from new PDF sales will only be a trickle not a torrent and so apart from generating some short term interest , little else will change. Except the possibility of a modern modern distribution method for new releases via pdf rather than the printed word?

[Forar]

Will this help Palladium? Yes.

As per the OP's title, how much will it help? Only time will tell. Without knowing the details of the contract (which obviously neither side is likely to hand over to the internet at large), we have no way of knowing what percentages are being exchanged, how extensive the deal is, etc. Nor how the community will react; presumably an uptick in book sales for 'fluff', but given the amount of cheap PB books on Amazon, I'm not sure it'll amount to a deluge of demand. With all the books already out there and people funding a conversion to a new rules set, it's hard to say just what impact there will be on PB's bottom line, rather than PEG's.

That said, I'm not hopeful that it will spur much movement for RRT. Unless they got or are getting six figures through this deal (up front payments, percentages, whatever), it's a drop in the bucket compared to what they got with the RRT KS.

Which isn't to say that this campaign isn't doing well. 216k'ish in less than a week might be the most financial interest expressed in a PB adjacent project in years (specifically, 3 of them).

[Bill]

I think there's also likely to be a lot of sales generated by people looking for material above and beyond what PEG will be able to publish. PEG is only putting out a handful of race and class templates and three or so equipment catalogs, barely scratching the surface of what the source material covers. And their license doesn't cover the dimension books at all. So, while I hope Palladium gets a taste of PEG's sales, I expect that they'll reap a lot more subsidiary benefits from this project than just royalties.

[Sureshot]

On the positive:

It will generate possible new sales for PB. While giving exposure to Rifts and other Ip as well as PB in general. They may also acquire new and returning fans to the fold.

On the negative:

Something like this should have been by PB years ago. A new edition of their rules. Or even a simple streamlining of the rules. Correcting omissions and copy and paste errors when needed in the rules. When fellow gamers hate a certain rpg they usually don't return to the fold. Some also dislike how PB has handled the Robotech Kickstarter. As well as other reasons for disliking PB and or KS in general. So while I see more new fans I don't see that many older ones returning to the fold. They rather come up with what they need for their games on their own. Rather than using the current system. A good example is Pathfinder. Many don't even touch their 3.5. books and either ask for core Pathfinder only and no third party of 3.5.

So it remains to be seen what will happen. I remain cautiously optimistic while also being a realist.

[Alpha 11]

I never said it would help move RTT along. Although, I'm almost positive that money is the problem with wave 2. They underestimated on everything, IMO. With things taking longer then they thought, and the cost rising higher then they expected, they went with doing the 2 waves. Most likely thinking with the money leftover from the KS, and the money they would get from the sales of wave 1, they could get wave 2 out. But then the sales didn't come. So they just had to wait, which is most like why we are only seeing thing moving along now, because they might actually have the money now. Though that is just my guess in the end. Though actually this deal might have helped put enough money into finishing wave 2. The timing of Savage Rifts coming out and more Wave 2 info coming out, are around the same time. Good timing? Or somehow, is it more connected? And hasn't Kevin been VERY tight with Palladiums IPs in the past? Maybe the Wave 2 problems forced them into this a little? But again, who knows, since they won't tell us anything.

[Damian Magecraft]

The timing of Savage Rifts coming out and more Wave 2 info coming out, are around the same time. Good timing? Or somehow, is it more connected? And hasn't Kevin been VERY tight with Palladiums IPs in the past? Maybe the Wave 2 problems forced them into this a little? But again, who knows, since they won't tell us anything.

Let us nip this speculation in the bud now shall we?
Sean Patrick Fannon has been very open in his interviews on the fact that this PB/PEG deal has been in the works for over six years.

Things like this do not happen overnight in the business world folks.
Lawyers for both parties have to be involved, and if there are any other Licensees of the IP (like a film production company) their lawyers may need to be consulted, etc.

So; no. This is not happening now "because of RRT."

[wilycoyote]

Agree Damien that the deal was not made now to make RTT happen.

However, the delays in Wave 2 RTT do suggest a possible cash flow problem with a potential overspend on the original product,coupled with ever rising costs, which combine to severly delay PB's ability to deliver. So there is a suggestion that any monies garnered here, could find a welcome home in finally drawing a line under the RTT KS

Again it is all guesswork on how much new interest is sparked in RIFTS and the willingness for new fans to buy the older materials. I cannpt see it being a motherlode of ready cash that can be thrown wholesale at RTT

[oni no won]

I think the biggest benefit for us fans will be that the kickstarter will show Kevin how hungry people are for a more comprehensive rules update of RIFTS. The last time I checked the kickstarter was nearing a quarter of a million dollars. If this does not wake Kevin up to the potential, I'm not sure what will...

[Alpha 11]

The timing of Savage Rifts coming out and more Wave 2 info coming out, are around the same time. Good timing? Or somehow, is it more connected? And hasn't Kevin been VERY tight with Palladiums IPs in the past? Maybe the Wave 2 problems forced them into this a little? But again, who knows, since they won't tell us anything.

Let us nip this speculation in the bud now shall we?
Sean Patrick Fannon has been very open in his interviews on the fact that this PB/PEG deal has been in the works for over six years.

Things like this do not happen overnight in the business world folks.
Lawyers for both parties have to be involved, and if there are any other Licensees of the IP (like a film production company) their lawyers may need to be consulted, etc.

So; no. This is not happening now "because of RRT."

I stand corrected then. Thank you for pointing that out. But I couldn't help but think of what was causing the delays, and that just popped into my head. And with Palladium not talking, well..., you see were its all going.

Agree Damien that the deal was not made now to make RTT happen.

However, the delays in Wave 2 RTT do suggest a possible cash flow problem with a potential overspend on the original product,coupled with ever rising costs, which combine to severly delay PB's ability to deliver. So there is a suggestion that any monies garnered here, could find a welcome home in finally drawing a line under the RTT KS

Again it is all guesswork on how much new interest is sparked in RIFTS and the willingness for new fans to buy the older materials. I cannpt see it being a motherlode of ready cash that can be thrown wholesale at RTT

Glad I'm not the only one thinking it is the money. Its times like this, I wish I was a multi millionair. I would have written them a check at the first sign of trouble, no questions asked, or wanting nothing in return..., well..., maybe all the new books they come out with for free from, now on.

I think the biggest benefit for us fans will be that the kickstarter will show Kevin how hungry people are for a more comprehensive rules update of RIFTS. The last time I checked the kickstarter was nearing a quarter of a million dollars. If this does not wake Kevin up to the potential, I'm not sure what will...

I'm not a big complainer about the rules, but with all the talking about them, I wouldn't be against them "striating" them out some, and stream lining things to make it easier on people.

[Forar]

Let us nip this speculation in the bud now shall we?
Sean Patrick Fannon has been very open in his interviews on the fact that this PB/PEG deal has been in the works for over six years.

Mind linking to one of the interviews that state this?

Due to the campaign going on currently, Google searches are a a bit of a mess without more to go on.

The initial announcement doesn't mention that, though you did say it came from interviews.

Just looking to read more on the history here.

[rosco60559]

for the op, money coming in for any business is good. money coming in and all you have to do is collect royalties with the occasional proof read even better. as for how much it'll help no idea. for all we know kevin might get on a high horse and not renew the deal if this is really successful or if it didn't rake in as much as he feels it's worth. I've seen and dealt with too many small business owners that would take good advice for a long term project and scrap it because they didn't make ridiculous money for them immediately.

[Alpha 11]

for the op, money coming in for any business is good. money coming in and all you have to do is collect royalties with the occasional proof read even better. as for how much it'll help no idea. for all we know kevin might get on a high horse and not renew the deal if this is really successful or if it didn't rake in as much as he feels it's worth. I've seen and dealt with too many small business owners that would take good advice for a long term project and scrap it because they didn't make ridiculous money for them immediately.

I hope that doesn't happen. This could be big for Palladium long terms, and lots of help for them.

[Damian Magecraft]

Let us nip this speculation in the bud now shall we?
Sean Patrick Fannon has been very open in his interviews on the fact that this PB/PEG deal has been in the works for over six years.

Mind linking to one of the interviews that state this?

Due to the campaign going on currently, Google searches are a a bit of a mess without more to go on.

The initial announcement doesn't mention that, though you did say it came from interviews.

Just looking to read more on the history here.

Sean Patrick Fannons latest interview
https://gmshoe.wordpress.com/2016/05/05/qa-sean-patrick-fannon-rifts-for-savage-worlds/

[palladiumjunkie]

Let us nip this speculation in the bud now shall we?
Sean Patrick Fannon has been very open in his interviews on the fact that this PB/PEG deal has been in the works for over six years.

Mind linking to one of the interviews that state this?

Due to the campaign going on currently, Google searches are a a bit of a mess without more to go on.

The initial announcement doesn't mention that, though you did say it came from interviews.

Just looking to read more on the history here.

Sean Patrick Fannons latest interview
https://gmshoe.wordpress.com/2016/05/05/qa-sean-patrick-fannon-rifts-for-savage-worlds/

And, the pertinent section of that interview...

[19:47] <+SeanPatrickFannon> So I was still working for DriveThruRPG/RPGNow at the time (I’ve done every job in gaming, just about, except art – my stick figures have epilepsy)…

[19:48] <+SeanPatrickFannon> So I think it’s been 6-7 years now, and I drove up to Michigan from Alabama (where I was living at the time; in Denver, CO now). I had been working on Kevin – a friend of mine, mind you, for a long time – for a while, trying to get him to finally start putting Palladium books up on our sites in PDF

[19:49] <+SeanPatrickFannon> He agreed to meet with me, my boss said “Go,” and off I went.

[19:49] <+SeanPatrickFannon> Once I showed him how it all worked and how it would make him some money, he was pretty happy. That’s when I blind-pitched the idea of doing Savage Rifts. He was all about it, right out the gate.

[19:50] <+SeanPatrickFannon> It took a long while, however, to line up time, resources, and other things before everyone involved felt we were ready to commit. There’s been a LONG time spent on design and development, as well.

[19:50] <+SeanPatrickFannon> Like I said, this is the most challenging design work of my entire life.

-Chris

[palladiumjunkie]

Also, a big thank you to Sean, for being the one to finally get Kev to start publishing any PDFs back then! It still took a long time to get to current books, but it had to start somewhere.

-Chris

[Alpha 11]

A quick side question, why are the PDF's the same price as the real books? Should it cost less to get the PDF form since they aren't have to print them and stuff?

[Shawn Merrow]

What do you mean? The pledge for all the books as PDF is $45 and $85 for the print version. For just the players guide the PDF is $15 and print is $25.

[Damian Magecraft]

What do you mean? The pledge for all the books as PDF is $45 and $85 for the print version. For just the players guide the PDF is $15 and print is $25.

I think he means the PB pdfs...

[Shawn Merrow]

Still doesn't work as the Rifts PDF are cheaper then the print versions.

[Alpha 11]

Still doesn't work as the Rifts PDF are cheaper then the print versions.

They are? They looked like they were the same price as the printed versions, not counting the discount when a book is first put out. Guess I'll have to look at them side by side.

[Forar]

Uhhh, Alpha?

Going here, at a cursory glance I'm seeing a pile of pdfs that are at roughly half price, at least by comparing MSRP to what is being charged.

A lesser discount compared to what some local shops and Amazon charge for a few of the physical books I've looked up, but it seems like a reasonable enough cost.

[Jefffar]

Yes, currently the most expensive PDF on RPG Drivethru is the RUE Main Book priced at 19.99 (about half off the cover price for the physical).

Palladium used to have it's PDFs priced at the same as their books and they used to have a very limited selection, but now they have almost 250 PDFs up, most of them half off (and quite a few of them free).

I agree it took them longer to get there than most of us would have liked, but it is a heck of an improvement over where we were not all that long ago.

Hopefully we'll move on to enhanced PDFs instead of basic scans or even to eBooks in the near future.

[Tiree]

Hopefully we'll move on to enhanced PDFs instead of basic scans or even to eBooks in the near future.

This is what I am really worried about in purchasing their PDF's. I don't want basic scans, I want something that shows the company cares about the product they are putting out there.

[BookWyrm]

I would say YES, but I personally am only going to pick up the relevant Rifts-linked books, not the all-Savage World stuff. So I would need a list of just those books.

[The Beast]

Hopefully we'll move on to enhanced PDFs instead of basic scans or even to eBooks in the near future.

This is what I am really worried about in purchasing their PDF's. I don't want basic scans, I want something that shows the company cares about the product they are putting out there.

Same here.

[Alpha 11]

Uhhh, Alpha?

Going here, at a cursory glance I'm seeing a pile of pdfs that are at roughly half price, at least by comparing MSRP to what is being charged.

A lesser discount compared to what some local shops and Amazon charge for a few of the physical books I've looked up, but it seems like a reasonable enough cost.

Yes, currently the most expensive PDF on RPG Drivethru is the RUE Main Book priced at 19.99 (about half off the cover price for the physical).

Palladium used to have it's PDFs priced at the same as their books and they used to have a very limited selection, but now they have almost 250 PDFs up, most of them half off (and quite a few of them free).

I agree it took them longer to get there than most of us would have liked, but it is a heck of an improvement over where we were not all that long ago.

Hopefully we'll move on to enhanced PDFs instead of basic scans or even to eBooks in the near future.

Looks like my bad. Must be old memories, or just remembering wrong, but mostly old memories. Glad this is taken care of.

Hopefully we'll move on to enhanced PDFs instead of basic scans or even to eBooks in the near future.

This is what I am really worried about in purchasing their PDF's. I don't want basic scans, I want something that shows the company cares about the product they are putting out there.

Maybe if or when they do, and you have bought the basic scans, they might give out free upgrades to the ones that bought those basic. I would hope they do that anyways.

[Tiree]

Maybe if or when they do, and you have bought the basic scans, they might give out free upgrades to the ones that bought those basic. I would hope they do that anyways.

This is Palladium, they will remark it as an "Expanded and Updated" or "Revised" PDF version

[kaid]

Also, a big thank you to Sean, for being the one to finally get Kev to start publishing any PDFs back then! It still took a long time to get to current books, but it had to start somewhere.

-Chris

And it seems like once that ball got rolling they are going through their collection at a pretty decent pace now for converting to .pdfs.

[Alpha 11]

Also, a big thank you to Sean, for being the one to finally get Kev to start publishing any PDFs back then! It still took a long time to get to current books, but it had to start somewhere.

-Chris

And it seems like once that ball got rolling they are going through their collection at a pretty decent pace now for converting to .pdfs.

Which is a nice change of pace.

[fbdaury]

Well there is money for the license. They have announced they are not planning to reprint all the setting info and have advised people to buy the books by Palladium for that. For example the Glitter Boy preview they posted does not have as much detail in its stats (size, weight, etc.) as you find in the books by Palladium. I'm hopping this will give them a bump in their PDF sales on DriveThruRPG for people wanting that extra information.

Nevermind- already addressed upthread.