Hypothetical: What Do You Think Would Happen

[HWalsh]

Okay, we don't know how it happened, that isn't important... But Chi-Town is gone. Completely obliterated. In a flash 5.5 Million lives are wiped out. Prosek and his family are dead. The rumor is that someone did it with magic. The reports are that a huge Rift opened and from it billowed out a beam of brilliant energy that was miles wide and that it completely destroyed everything in its path. Nothing survived. There is a huge cone of charred earth from the origin point to the end point, nothing survived the hit.

Nobody has taken credit for it. The FoM has no idea what happened. Lazlo is in shock. All anyone knows is that a massive beam of energy came out of nowhere and in the end nothing in its path remains. I mean, literally nothing, there is no evidence that anything once stood there, it has all been blasted into ash and soot.

How do the people in YOUR version of Rifts North America react?

[dragonfett]

All out war against all magic users.

[Bill]

The Coalition fractures and civil war breaks out. Northern Gun, Free Quebec, and the Colorado Baronies take the opportunity to either ally with the neighboring Coalition state or attempt to absorb it. Meanwhile, the vampires, splugorth minions, xiticix, and other hostile alien forces take advantage of the chaos to push the borders in on themselves. Archie-3 might even make a move to expand his political sway; something unnecessarily grandiose like replacing several leaders with android doubles.

[Zer0 Kay]

The Coalition fractures and civil war breaks out. Northern Gun, Free Quebec, and the Colorado Baronies take the opportunity to either ally with the neighboring Coalition state or attempt to absorb it. Meanwhile, the vampires, splugorth minions, xiticix, and other hostile alien forces take advantage of the chaos to push the borders in on themselves. Archie-3 might even make a move to expand his political sway; something unnecessarily grandiose like replacing several leaders with android doubles.

r u sure ARCH wouldn't be too busy trying to hold back the sploogs and VIs?

[Zer0 Kay]

FQ takes over as the ruling state and rolls out its full GB force for all to see AND ramps up production. The destroy or sanitize and repurpose Lonestar
they spin the story even further. Stating that though the horrible incident was caused by mages it was compounded due to the CS tolerating the storage of magic items within their own city rather than destroying them by any means necessary. Simply having the items within the city corrupted the minds of the citizens, turning enough against the city to allow the mages access. In addition the presence of such powerful evil items just in the area magnified the powers of the mages to allow such a horrible attack.

[HWalsh]

All good ideas... So far most of those are from the CS-ish side... So what happens in Lazlo, or the FoM... Bear in mind, neither of them knows what happened either.

[Dr Megaverse]

What usually happens when large central powers disappear...primarily warlordism for a while and a scrambling of the lesser constituents to make something out of the wreckage. I imagine the mid west CS affiliates join together and try to provide mutual defense with FQ possibly stepping in as big boy for the remaining CS states or perhaps deciding to go it's own way. Id imagine there will be quite a bit of struggle with this as there are plenty of Chi-Town soldiers and officers who were in the field when this happened and they may have differing opinions on how stuff should merge. Lazlo and New Lazlo breathe a sigh of relief and try and figure out what happened. FoM steps up its machinations to inflict pain on the stragglers but not in any organized way. Splugorth slavers move further inland. Archie keeps being a nutjar and does some covert stuff while fighting more sploogs. Vampire Kingdoms expand into Texas ans maybe grab off LoneStar if the Pecos don't give them too much trouble (unlikely). Out west folks keep on keeping on except the Tolkeen refugees are probably safer.

The CS is supposed to be the 500 lb gorilla in the room but without Chi-Town and the Proseks holding everything together with their cult of personality I can't imagine much a coherent CE remaining as a big league player.

[ShadowLogan]

What do I think would happen if Chi-Town suddenly disappeared?

The Coalition as an entity ceases to be, with the various states going their own way IF Prosek and other high officials are all taken out in the act. I do not see FQ moving to restore the CS (assuming post CoU). Chi-Town, and specifically the Proseks, is what holds the CS together. You might see more magic communities spring up in SE WI and NE IL, areas the CS was occupying to deny them, without Chi-Town and the CS, these areas likely become "open".

Now if Prosek escaped the act (or a "clone" is created by Bradford to hold the CS together and presented to as the real deal), the CS likely is to survive, but their power will be depleted (CS tech base will likely stagnate given Chi-Town was #1 and FQ was #2 before it split). This could put strain on the CS recruiting, as the CS Fortress Cities are now shown to be vulnerable with people not looking to get into them.

Everyone else likely proceeds to operate as business as usual, or close to it. There likely will be some effort to determine what happened to Chi-Town though. Regardless of if Proseks survived or not.

[Library Ogre]

Geographically, I think you'd see Iron Heart start to fall into the orbit of the Manistique Imperium, leading to greater strength in the UP. I think Lone Star would go rogue, with a bit of a civil war between the military and scientific factions. Missouri and Arkansas might stay together, along with the remnants of the state of Chi-Town (as distinct from the fortress city).

Lazlo would be inclined, I think, to hunker down... their lack of external action tends to cast them in a pretty passive role. The FoM would start to expand, but would run into the barriers of remaining states.

Personally, I wonder what would happen in Ft. Pinnacle and Houstown... Pinnacle's always been at the end of an attenuated supply line, but has a military population greater than the total population of Houstown, a nearby hub city for trade (and, in my version, cybernetics). Pinnacle can't really ally easily with the rest of Lone Star, or even with Arkansas... there's a lot of miles involved... but they either have to attack Houstown or come to some terms with them.

[ShadowLogan]

think you'd see Iron Heart start to fall into the orbit of the Manistique Imperium, leading to greater strength in the UP

I'm dubious of this. Iron Heart is reported to be anti-non-human to the extreme (the Chi-Town having reigned them in somewhat), and Manistique has 30% population of D-Bees (even in RUE) and possibly even magic users (they did in RMB, not sure about RUE period as it isn't mentioned).

While Chi-Town might be willing to support/ally with nation/states w/D-Bees (ex Columbia and Dwarves, Triax has a D-Bee general, etc), Iron Heart's history doesn't make it seem likely they would ally with the UP independents because of their more accepting D-Bee (and other) policies IMHO.

[Alrik Vas]

FQ would take over, then the magicians of the world would shiver in their beds, wondering how things could have possibly gotten worse.

But Lazlo, FoM, etc...they would do what they've always done. Wait and hide.

[Library Ogre]

think you'd see Iron Heart start to fall into the orbit of the Manistique Imperium, leading to greater strength in the UP

I'm dubious of this. Iron Heart is reported to be anti-non-human to the extreme (the Chi-Town having reigned them in somewhat), and Manistique has 30% population of D-Bees (even in RUE) and possibly even magic users (they did in RMB, not sure about RUE period as it isn't mentioned).

Good point.

[eliakon]

What do I think would happen if Chi-Town suddenly disappeared?

The Coalition as an entity ceases to be, with the various states going their own way IF Prosek and other high officials are all taken out in the act. I do not see FQ moving to restore the CS (assuming post CoU). Chi-Town, and specifically the Proseks, is what holds the CS together. You might see more magic communities spring up in SE WI and NE IL, areas the CS was occupying to deny them, without Chi-Town and the CS, these areas likely become "open".

Now if Prosek escaped the act (or a "clone" is created by Bradford to hold the CS together and presented to as the real deal), the CS likely is to survive, but their power will be depleted (CS tech base will likely stagnate given Chi-Town was #1 and FQ was #2 before it split). This could put strain on the CS recruiting, as the CS Fortress Cities are now shown to be vulnerable with people not looking to get into them.

Everyone else likely proceeds to operate as business as usual, or close to it. There likely will be some effort to determine what happened to Chi-Town though. Regardless of if Proseks survived or not.

I see something like this.
FQ isn't going to take over. LS and FQ are diametrically opposed on several issues. Many of the other states have huge differences as well. And to be honest, I don't think that most of the other states are going to want to give up their psychics.

I also imagine that everyone and their dog(boy) is going to be investigating what happened to Chi Town. And I mean everybody. From the CS, to the FoM, to the Splugorth, Archie, the Demons, Devils, EVERYBODY. Miles wide beams from rifts that vaporize cities are the sort of bogey man super weapon that keeps people up a night. If it was a weapon, and someone has it... the civil war on North America is going to look like a sand box scuffle at the day care compared to the carnage that will erupt over such a thing.

[ShadowLogan]

FQ would take over, then the magicians of the world would shiver in their beds, wondering how things could have possibly gotten worse.

But Lazlo, FoM, etc...they would do what they've always done. Wait and hide.

I seriously doubt FQ would take over. They are more isolationist than empire building in canon.

With Chi-Town gone, the FoM (or more accurately elements w/n) likely would make some move, though I suspect it would be to "magically" important areas (like NE IL or SE WI) and not necessarily attempt to go for everything.

[HWalsh]

Yeah, I think a huge amount of effort would go into figuring out what the source of the Rift cannon was. Given that if it could take Chi-Town out in a single blast even Splynny would be concerned as it could wipe out Atlantis and kill him as well.

[Proseksword]

The Coalition States would likely splinter, with Iron Heart signing a defense pact with Free Quebec and Lonestar taking control of the rump states in the south. Both would likely try to discover what happened and create a buffer zone between them and the surrounding states - Free Quebec would probably lay siege to Lazlo, while Lonestar would attempt to wipe out the Pecos Empire and probably pick a losing battle with the Federation of Magic. When the dust cleared, the Alistar Dunscon would likely rule Illinois and Missouri.

[Pepsi Jedi]

think you'd see Iron Heart start to fall into the orbit of the Manistique Imperium, leading to greater strength in the UP

I'm dubious of this. Iron Heart is reported to be anti-non-human to the extreme (the Chi-Town having reigned them in somewhat), and Manistique has 30% population of D-Bees (even in RUE) and possibly even magic users (they did in RMB, not sure about RUE period as it isn't mentioned).

Good point.

Not just that, but Manistique is the smaller of the two 'nations' in the UP. Northern Gun being the biggie. Manistique is sort of the smaller dirtier, poorer cousin to NG. Iron Heart would be larger and more powerful. They were a heavy manufacturing base for the CS. They wouldn't be absorbed by anyone, if anything Iron heart would absorb Chi town's left overs.

[Pepsi Jedi]

My own answer to this would be ."Not that much would change"

Chi town would be gone. The CS has enough people though that the other states would nominate a new capital and move the 'seat' of government there. Likely Ironheart. As it was 1 close-ish to Chi town and is it's own mega city with manufacturing points. They'd loose a goodly number of troops but not all of them. If you read the CWC they had (Note the had) about 4million troops and dogboys under arms. Even if 1 million of them were in or around chitown (A huge number were, hundreds of thousands but I'm jumpign t up for ease here) That'd still leave 3 million to protect the other states.

With HoH coming out they've got an influx of another 3.5 MILLION coming in. Now, a huge number of those would be in and or around Chi town getting training bnut you can't train three and a half million people at one mega city, so many of those troops would have been sent out to other cities to train. I'm guessing... ALOT of them would be training... in Texas. The Lone Star megacity was onluy at half capactiy. So you probably sent 2 million of them down there. With the other 1.5 spread around.

1st, the highest ranking military officer still alive takes command. This very well could be the Female General in Lone star.
Second you account for military power and LOCK IT ALL DOWN. Martial law. Strict cerfews. Shoot on sight orders for anything susupishious.
Third, you conslidate your power base. In this event, Ironheart and Lone star would be the two regional powers.
you push the training of those troops that you just took in to put more boots on the ground. You mix them in with vetran units (Remember the standing CS War machine have tons of lvl 6-9 troops now. Those that entered the TOlkeen war lvl 1 and survived) So you mix your green ttroops in with them to help boost your numbers.
Fourth. You analize external threats.
Fifth, being the CS... you make an example of one of them... I know it sounds bad.. but.. you've got to show you're still strong. I'm thinking the Fed would pray to god that Tolkeen gave them that anti nuke shield before being destroyed (But as the Fed told them to burn in hell when they asked for help.. it's unlikely) BOOOM! The CS takes out one or two magic kingdoms with atomic fire. To show they still have fangs.


Now... if power could NOT be consolidated, (Though with the entire country on strict military hiarchy it shouldhn't be "Too" hard. A DHT can transverse the entire 'country' in an hour or two.) But if they could NOT consolidate power you would see it balkinizing into smaller city states each vieing for it's own power in it's respective region.

[dragonfett]

Aside from the remaining states declaring war on all magic users, I think that the Federation of Magic would move as quickly as possible to secure the area where Chi-Town used to be and north all the way to the Ruins of Chicago.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Why? What's the tactical advantage of coming out of the shadows and putting a target on themselves in that manner? The rest of the CS are going to be looking for the threat that 'did' this. if the Fed moved out of the shaodows at the very best they'd be caught between the two remaining halves of the CS, it'd be suicide.

[Proseksword]

Part of this depends upon whether we're talking about the entire state of Chi-town, or Chi-Town the fortress-city. Eliminating just the city would really only **** the Coalition States off. CWC indicates there's around a dozen other fortress-cities within the Illinois portion of Chi-Town alone. IF they survive, the capital moves to Waukegan and it's business as usual, and by usual, I mean hunting down every last magic user within reach. If we're discussing the whole state, you're going to be talking about a huge vacuum not just in terms of troops but also in stockpiled equipment, intelligence, food and other resources. CS Missouri is woefully under staffed to re-secure the Illinois Contingent against a hostile Federation of Magic Invasion force, Xiticix, and whatever has spilled out of the St. Louis rift this week.

[HWalsh]

Fifth, being the CS... you make an example of one of them... I know it sounds bad.. but.. you've got to show you're still strong. I'm thinking the Fed would pray to god that Tolkeen gave them that anti nuke shield before being destroyed (But as the Fed told them to burn in hell when they asked for help.. it's unlikely) BOOOM! The CS takes out one or two magic kingdoms with atomic fire. To show they still have fangs.

Would have to be Lazlo or Kingsdale, they don't know where the Federation of Magic is and it is through a portal, underground, through winding tunnels. Nukes aren't so useful in that kind of situation.

[HWalsh]

Part of this depends upon whether we're talking about the entire state of Chi-town, or Chi-Town the fortress-city. Eliminating just the city would really only **** the Coalition States off. CWC indicates there's around a dozen other fortress-cities within the Illinois portion of Chi-Town alone. IF they survive, the capital moves to Waukegan and it's business as usual, and by usual, I mean hunting down every last magic user within reach. If we're discussing the whole state, you're going to be talking about a huge vacuum not just in terms of troops but also in stockpiled equipment, intelligence, food and other resources. CS Missouri is woefully under staffed to re-secure the Illinois Contingent against a hostile Federation of Magic Invasion force, Xiticix, and whatever has spilled out of the St. Louis rift this week.

Okay, allow me to add details (and yes, I am developing this for the metaplot for my current players, no this hasn't happened yet):

Two weeks before the event the psychics in Chi-Town start reporting having visions of "Death. Burning white death. The destruction of the Coalition States." They can't "see" anything because they all report a burning white nothingness.

The CS doubles security at Chi-Town and Emperor Prosek is moved to his private security bunker. They assume that the massive bunker can withstand any attack. That would be true, if this were an attack by conventional means.

Meanwhile, on an alien world, a group of Mystics watch as catastrophic destruction plows toward their world. In a desperate attempt, at the last minute, to save their people they open a huge Rift, hoping to escape certain death as the blast wave from a supernova is inbound. They are too late. The Rift opens and some of them do indeed make it though, but then somehow, through the rift the massive energy wave comes through, turning the Rift into the barrel of a gun as a wide spray of death spews forth. The blast wave is hundreds of miles long and miles wide as it spreads blackening and blasting the ground killing and utterly destroying everything in its wake. Everything in the path is destroyed, towns, cities, and in the loss is Chi-Town itself. Chi-Town and many of the farms used to feed the Coalition States are destroyed in a flash of an instant. The loss of troops to the CS is massive as they had doubled the normal number of standing troops before the attack.

The blast is witnessed by many. It came out of a massive Rift that formed at a nexus point. Reports are spotty but it is said that some D-Bees frantically ran out of the portal before they were destroyed by the blast wave. The length of the furrow cut by the blast is irradiated in excess, unusable by anyone, scorched Earth has never before been so an appropriate term. When the dust clears, nothing in the path survived, devastation on a scale not seen since the cataclysm.

[Library Ogre]

Oh, then that's easy. Direct exposure to a supernova, even though a relatively narrow aperture (like a Rift)?

The Earth is wiped clean of life and the orbital community is really confused as to where the planet went.

[HWalsh]

Oh, then that's easy. Direct exposure to a supernova, even though a relatively narrow aperture (like a Rift)?

The Earth is wiped clean of life and the orbital community is really confused as to where the planet went.

Momentary exposure. And yeah I am going with the "rule of cool" on the theory. Its not like anything else in Rifts follows scientific logic or physical laws.

Hell, the original write-up of the Boom Gun would have caused untold massive planetary devastation the first time it was fired.

Actually... It might not be as bad as you think, its the wave, not the actual supernova itself. So depending on the distance of the planet from the blast and what not that could all have a wild blunting effect.

[Library Ogre]

Aside from the specifics, I have the feeling that the CS wouldn't survive the obliteration of the Proseks... there are too many competing strong personalities, with too much independence. Oh, the Proseks are gone? Desmond Bradford is barely contained NOW... he's gonna do whatever the **** he wants. Arkansas is just recently a state... they'll go back to being independent, maybe lopping off a chunk of Missouri.

[HWalsh]

Aside from the specifics, I have the feeling that the CS wouldn't survive the obliteration of the Proseks... there are too many competing strong personalities, with too much independence. Oh, the Proseks are gone? Desmond Bradford is barely contained NOW... he's gonna do whatever the **** he wants. Arkansas is just recently a state... they'll go back to being independent, maybe lopping off a chunk of Missouri.

So I am looking at then, from the general consensus:

The CS would fracture, with probably half breaking off (probably the southern area) who would fall under Bradford, who probably goes off his rocker with the genetic experiments. Akansas breaking off into its own area. The northern part of the CS, it seems everyone thinks would go to, or would be taken by, Free Quebec. So the CS would probably cease to be and instead be replaced by three new factions. An expanded Lonestar, Southern Quebec (As good a name as any), and Arkansas and the "middle" cities would be trying to pick up the pieces, I think, and remaining the true Coalition States.

Honestly... This isn't bad for the setting. The CS is still around, though in a much weakened capacity, they are still a threat but no longer able to just steamroll anyone they want to. CS characters would have threats on all sides, which would be a nice change of pace from being the Big Dog in the room. The CS would be forced to blunt some of its "diplomacy" because they just don't have the firepower to back it up.

Lonestar becomes more interesting as more insane genetic experiments start taking place and the Lonestar scientists start messing more with D-Bee DNA (which we know they don't have a problem doing due to the Xitcitix Hunter. (I can never spell that darn word.)

The Republicans might be working to seize control of the weakened Coalition States, now that it may be possible. Which would give ARCHIE Three pause.

I don't see the Spluggorth really stepping up attacks because Splynny wasn't ever afraid of the CS anyway so he's not going to change tactics because one CS place got destroyed.

[Alrik Vas]

FQ would take over, then the magicians of the world would shiver in their beds, wondering how things could have possibly gotten worse.

But Lazlo, FoM, etc...they would do what they've always done. Wait and hide.

I seriously doubt FQ would take over. They are more isolationist than empire building in canon.

With Chi-Town gone, the FoM (or more accurately elements w/n) likely would make some move, though I suspect it would be to "magically" important areas (like NE IL or SE WI) and not necessarily attempt to go for everything.

Eh, I was just matching sillies with the OP.

[Slight001]

Bradford, having just witnessed the death of a fellow god would likely lapse into depression then about five minutes later realise that he'd been a fool Prosek clearly hadn't been a true god unlike himself... with that moment pushed aside he would get to work.
0: implement already existing contingencies... (you have read his profile right?) for gaining control of lone star complex from any overzealous individuals who don't know their proper place.

1: He would unleash his omega beasts (lone star comics... cannon IIRC) this would ensure the eventual death of all magic users... again as per omega beast writeup...

2: He would begin manipulating everyone to either A; set himself up as the new ruler... unlikely, or B; create a new puppet ruler loyal to him alone... probably a clone of Joseph Prosek II... because who better to be made into a puppet then the one who had given him such trouble... yeah option B is his likely play...

3: begin really cutting loose with the gene-mod soldier enhancement programs, and begin a more open operations policy regarding his formerly covert programs and creations.

[Proseksword]

Honestly... This isn't bad for the setting. The CS is still around, though in a much weakened capacity, they are still a threat but no longer able to just steamroll anyone they want to. CS characters would have threats on all sides, which would be a nice change of pace from being the Big Dog in the room.

This sounds good in passing, but I honestly feel like it would be one of those "We switched off Friend Computer and now all the secret societies rule" or "Traveller: The New Era" type decisions that would ultimately cheapen the setting. Humanity surviving on RIFTs Earth by being one of the biggest, baddest monsters around is one of the things that makes the setting so interesting and dynamic. It'd be much harder to justify humanity surviving all the hostile threats in North America without the Coalition, and without the strength of its military, the surviving powers would have to make common cause with magic-users and d-bees to survive, leaving you with just another "bland coalition of rag-tag good guys fight off mindless demon hordes" setting, and that's been done to death.
The Coalition draws a real strong line across the continent which forces political powers and player characters alike to align along axis other than "Evil/Not Evil". Without their dominant military position, no-one can or has to consider compromising their principles for survival - you're depriving the setting of one of it's key roleplaying experiences, namely - who are the real monsters, and how much of a monster are you willing to be to survive?

[HWalsh]

Honestly... This isn't bad for the setting. The CS is still around, though in a much weakened capacity, they are still a threat but no longer able to just steamroll anyone they want to. CS characters would have threats on all sides, which would be a nice change of pace from being the Big Dog in the room.

This sounds good in passing, but I honestly feel like it would be one of those "We switched off Friend Computer and now all the secret societies rule" or "Traveller: The New Era" type decisions that would ultimately cheapen the setting. Humanity surviving on RIFTs Earth by being one of the biggest, baddest monsters around is one of the things that makes the setting so interesting and dynamic. It'd be much harder to justify humanity surviving all the hostile threats in North America without the Coalition, and without the strength of its military, the surviving powers would have to make common cause with magic-users and d-bees to survive, leaving you with just another "bland coalition of rag-tag good guys fight off mindless demon hordes" setting, and that's been done to death.
The Coalition draws a real strong line across the continent which forces political powers and player characters alike to align along axis other than "Evil/Not Evil". Without their dominant military position, no-one can or has to consider compromising their principles for survival - you're depriving the setting of one of it's key roleplaying experiences, namely - who are the real monsters, and how much of a monster are you willing to be to survive?

Well, save for one problem. You'd still have groups of powerful human supremacists.

I, find exactly the opposite. For example, I pretty much remove the CS from just about every game I run. Either I have the game take place where the CS has no presence or I kick them to the curb. Why? Because they are problematic. There are almost no real threats as long as the CS is still there. Does anyone really believe the Minion War is going to threaten anything in the setting? Of course not. The CS has a bazillion troops with more weapons, armor, and power armor than can be counted. They have so many massive machines of war they keep millions of them sitting on the shelf because they can.

Player characters don't compromise their morals. It usually has to be agreed on, you are either a CS game or a non-CS game. I've NEVER in-my-life had to choose in game if I was going to side with the CS. Either I was CS already, or we had characters that were incompatible with the CS and therefor it was a non-starter from the word go.

You can't "compromise" your morals with the CS because the CS never has to compromise. They are a plot device that literally is designed to be incompatible with (most) player groups. Yes you can play the CS, but again, only if everyone is human, only if nobody uses magic, and only if anyone playing a Psychic is willing to play second class citizen, because, in the CS, their propaganda is such that literally they aren't really considered human.

CS games can be fun, but its not a matter of PCs choosing to compromise their morals. It is a pretty binary situation.

A much better situation would be if the CS was weaker, and wasn't completely magic-phobic, and wasn't completely "kill all D-Bees." Why? Because then you could at least have the option of siding with them (albeit anything non-human would still have to accept second hand citizen status, and anyone with magic would be watched like a hawk) and instead of making it a moral choice over human supremacy and extinction of magic it could be about the subjugation of non-humans and the subjugation of magic. Which would be more of a viable option for a group after play had begun.

But right now we have a nearly invincible army that, due to ridiculous numbers that make absolutely no sense, can beat anyone anywhere and even a loss of 150,000 troops doesn't dent them for more than a month or two... Maybe... I'm pretty sure you could kill a million of them and it wouldn't really do much other than annoy them.

To put it into perspective about how large the CS army is...

Compare it to the current US Armed Forces (and note, that the human population in Rifts is a fraction of the real world) where there are a TOTAL of 1.4 million people serving in the US Armed Forces. The Coalition States has more SAMAS Armor than the entire US Military has people. The entire defense force of a single nation in the modern day is a fraction of the defense forces the CS has access to.

It, to me, breaks verisimilitude a lot because it makes no sense how an army that large hasn't just steamrolled everyone and completely conquered the entirety of North America.

But I digress. I just don't see the need for them to be that large and powerful in the setting. It simply isn't realistic.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Fifth, being the CS... you make an example of one of them... I know it sounds bad.. but.. you've got to show you're still strong. I'm thinking the Fed would pray to god that Tolkeen gave them that anti nuke shield before being destroyed (But as the Fed told them to burn in hell when they asked for help.. it's unlikely) BOOOM! The CS takes out one or two magic kingdoms with atomic fire. To show they still have fangs.

Would have to be Lazlo or Kingsdale, they don't know where the Federation of Magic is and it is through a portal, underground, through winding tunnels. Nukes aren't so useful in that kind of situation.

Money. the CS hold the banking system so they can literally 'make money' if it suits them, even if they couldn't they have the money of the largest nation in rifts earth. The Fed is made up of evil and selfish types. You put out enough money and SOMEONE will betray them. "50,000,000 for the mage that leads this group of...... mercenaries into the Fed's capital city"

They drive into the capital city with their APC.... apc is basicly a shell around a nuke.... boom. (Or any variation there of).

Fifty million not enough? 100 then.. 500 million, a billion credits. SOMEONE with an evil or selfish alignment will betray them.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Part of this depends upon whether we're talking about the entire state of Chi-town, or Chi-Town the fortress-city. Eliminating just the city would really only **** the Coalition States off. CWC indicates there's around a dozen other fortress-cities within the Illinois portion of Chi-Town alone. IF they survive, the capital moves to Waukegan and it's business as usual, and by usual, I mean hunting down every last magic user within reach. If we're discussing the whole state, you're going to be talking about a huge vacuum not just in terms of troops but also in stockpiled equipment, intelligence, food and other resources. CS Missouri is woefully under staffed to re-secure the Illinois Contingent against a hostile Federation of Magic Invasion force, Xiticix, and whatever has spilled out of the St. Louis rift this week.

Okay, allow me to add details (and yes, I am developing this for the metaplot for my current players, no this hasn't happened yet):

Two weeks before the event the psychics in Chi-Town start reporting having visions of "Death. Burning white death. The destruction of the Coalition States." They can't "see" anything because they all report a burning white nothingness.

The CS doubles security at Chi-Town and Emperor Prosek is moved to his private security bunker. They assume that the massive bunker can withstand any attack. That would be true, if this were an attack by conventional means.

Meanwhile, on an alien world, a group of Mystics watch as catastrophic destruction plows toward their world. In a desperate attempt, at the last minute, to save their people they open a huge Rift, hoping to escape certain death as the blast wave from a supernova is inbound. They are too late. The Rift opens and some of them do indeed make it though, but then somehow, through the rift the massive energy wave comes through, turning the Rift into the barrel of a gun as a wide spray of death spews forth. The blast wave is hundreds of miles long and miles wide as it spreads blackening and blasting the ground killing and utterly destroying everything in its wake. Everything in the path is destroyed, towns, cities, and in the loss is Chi-Town itself. Chi-Town and many of the farms used to feed the Coalition States are destroyed in a flash of an instant. The loss of troops to the CS is massive as they had doubled the normal number of standing troops before the attack.

The blast is witnessed by many. It came out of a massive Rift that formed at a nexus point. Reports are spotty but it is said that some D-Bees frantically ran out of the portal before they were destroyed by the blast wave. The length of the furrow cut by the blast is irradiated in excess, unusable by anyone, scorched Earth has never before been so an appropriate term. When the dust clears, nothing in the path survived, devastation on a scale not seen since the cataclysm.

So you're using the plot from Star Trek Enterprise where they did that to Florida? (Granted theirs was a weapon but same result) Mixing it with Tolkeen's "Nuke shield that just shunts the nukes. "Some where else, we don't know where but not here" ?

Ehh.... I mean it's a way to go but honestly it's going to come off as contrived. (Which,, this sort of thing would pretty much have to be.)

[HWalsh]

Part of this depends upon whether we're talking about the entire state of Chi-town, or Chi-Town the fortress-city. Eliminating just the city would really only **** the Coalition States off. CWC indicates there's around a dozen other fortress-cities within the Illinois portion of Chi-Town alone. IF they survive, the capital moves to Waukegan and it's business as usual, and by usual, I mean hunting down every last magic user within reach. If we're discussing the whole state, you're going to be talking about a huge vacuum not just in terms of troops but also in stockpiled equipment, intelligence, food and other resources. CS Missouri is woefully under staffed to re-secure the Illinois Contingent against a hostile Federation of Magic Invasion force, Xiticix, and whatever has spilled out of the St. Louis rift this week.

Okay, allow me to add details (and yes, I am developing this for the metaplot for my current players, no this hasn't happened yet):

Two weeks before the event the psychics in Chi-Town start reporting having visions of "Death. Burning white death. The destruction of the Coalition States." They can't "see" anything because they all report a burning white nothingness.

The CS doubles security at Chi-Town and Emperor Prosek is moved to his private security bunker. They assume that the massive bunker can withstand any attack. That would be true, if this were an attack by conventional means.

Meanwhile, on an alien world, a group of Mystics watch as catastrophic destruction plows toward their world. In a desperate attempt, at the last minute, to save their people they open a huge Rift, hoping to escape certain death as the blast wave from a supernova is inbound. They are too late. The Rift opens and some of them do indeed make it though, but then somehow, through the rift the massive energy wave comes through, turning the Rift into the barrel of a gun as a wide spray of death spews forth. The blast wave is hundreds of miles long and miles wide as it spreads blackening and blasting the ground killing and utterly destroying everything in its wake. Everything in the path is destroyed, towns, cities, and in the loss is Chi-Town itself. Chi-Town and many of the farms used to feed the Coalition States are destroyed in a flash of an instant. The loss of troops to the CS is massive as they had doubled the normal number of standing troops before the attack.

The blast is witnessed by many. It came out of a massive Rift that formed at a nexus point. Reports are spotty but it is said that some D-Bees frantically ran out of the portal before they were destroyed by the blast wave. The length of the furrow cut by the blast is irradiated in excess, unusable by anyone, scorched Earth has never before been so an appropriate term. When the dust clears, nothing in the path survived, devastation on a scale not seen since the cataclysm.

So you're using the plot from Star Trek Enterprise where they did that to Florida? (Granted theirs was a weapon but same result) Mixing it with Tolkeen's "Nuke shield that just shunts the nukes. "Some where else, we don't know where but not here" ?

Ehh.... I mean it's a way to go but honestly it's going to come off as contrived. (Which,, this sort of thing would pretty much have to be.)

Star Trek stole it from the Ultimate Fantastic Four. The same place I stole it from.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

My own answer to this would be ."Not that much would change"

Chi town would be gone. The CS has enough people though that the other states would nominate a new capital and move the 'seat' of government there. Likely Ironheart. As it was 1 close-ish to Chi town and is it's own mega city with manufacturing points. They'd loose a goodly number of troops but not all of them. If you read the CWC they had (Note the had) about 4million troops and dogboys under arms. Even if 1 million of them were in or around chitown (A huge number were, hundreds of thousands but I'm jumpign t up for ease here) That'd still leave 3 million to protect the other states.

With HoH coming out they've got an influx of another 3.5 MILLION coming in. Now, a huge number of those would be in and or around Chi town getting training bnut you can't train three and a half million people at one mega city, so many of those troops would have been sent out to other cities to train. I'm guessing... ALOT of them would be training... in Texas. The Lone Star megacity was onluy at half capactiy. So you probably sent 2 million of them down there. With the other 1.5 spread around.

1st, the highest ranking military officer still alive takes command. This very well could be the Female General in Lone star.
Second you account for military power and LOCK IT ALL DOWN. Martial law. Strict cerfews. Shoot on sight orders for anything susupishious.
Third, you conslidate your power base. In this event, Ironheart and Lone star would be the two regional powers.
you push the training of those troops that you just took in to put more boots on the ground. You mix them in with vetran units (Remember the standing CS War machine have tons of lvl 6-9 troops now. Those that entered the TOlkeen war lvl 1 and survived) So you mix your green ttroops in with them to help boost your numbers.
Fourth. You analize external threats.
Fifth, being the CS... you make an example of one of them... I know it sounds bad.. but.. you've got to show you're still strong. I'm thinking the Fed would pray to god that Tolkeen gave them that anti nuke shield before being destroyed (But as the Fed told them to burn in hell when they asked for help.. it's unlikely) BOOOM! The CS takes out one or two magic kingdoms with atomic fire. To show they still have fangs.


Now... if power could NOT be consolidated, (Though with the entire country on strict military hiarchy it shouldhn't be "Too" hard. A DHT can transverse the entire 'country' in an hour or two.) But if they could NOT consolidate power you would see it balkinizing into smaller city states each vieing for it's own power in it's respective region.

This is fairly solid. Also remember that Chi-Town is only ONE of the fortress cities in that area alone. There are another 2-4 of them not too far away that also have populations in the million+ range. And they were/are in the process of building another one.

It'd hurt.. but not nearly as badly as everyone thinks. The biggest damage done is to the experienced chain of command.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

and only if anyone playing a Psychic is willing to play second class citizen, because, in the CS, their propaganda is such that literally they aren't really considered human.

Umm.. you might want to read CWC and Psyscape, particularly the parts about Psi-Net and Psi-Battalion.

"Good and Loyal" psychics (Psi-Net operatives and Psi-Bat troopers) are regarded as national heroes. You can thank (now) General Carol Black for that.

[HWalsh]

and only if anyone playing a Psychic is willing to play second class citizen, because, in the CS, their propaganda is such that literally they aren't really considered human.

Umm.. you might want to read CWC and Psyscape, particularly the parts about Psi-Net and Psi-Battalion.

"Good and Loyal" psychics (Psi-Net operatives and Psi-Bat troopers) are regarded as national heroes. You can thank (now) General Carol Black for that.

I have. It still says that, by and large, Psychics are seen as dangerous sort-of humans. The exact text in the RUE is, "Not really human." Since RUE is after both of those... Then we have to assume that the general sentiment of the CS is that Psychics can be heroes, but they are still not human, not fully.

[eliakon]

and only if anyone playing a Psychic is willing to play second class citizen, because, in the CS, their propaganda is such that literally they aren't really considered human.

Umm.. you might want to read CWC and Psyscape, particularly the parts about Psi-Net and Psi-Battalion.

"Good and Loyal" psychics (Psi-Net operatives and Psi-Bat troopers) are regarded as national heroes. You can thank (now) General Carol Black for that.

I have. It still says that, by and large, Psychics are seen as dangerous sort-of humans. The exact text in the RUE is, "Not really human." Since RUE is after both of those... Then we have to assume that the general sentiment of the CS is that Psychics can be heroes, but they are still not human, not fully.

Yep.
I mean even in RMB Dog Boys were seen as 'heroic'...they were (and are) also seen as animals.
Psychics are still, legally not human. Legally it is still a crime for a human and a psychic to have sex (since the mention of that law has to my knowledge never been revoked). Look at our world today, we lionize service animals like search and rescue dogs...but no matter how well we treat them, no matter how fondly we look upon them, they are still dogs. Psychics are like that, only just a bit better.

[HWalsh]

I have. It still says that, by and large, Psychics are seen as dangerous sort-of humans. The exact text in the RUE is, "Not really human." Since RUE is after both of those... Then we have to assume that the general sentiment of the CS is that Psychics can be heroes, but they are still not human, not fully.

Yep.

I mean even in RMB Dog Boys were seen as 'heroic'...they were (and are) also seen as animals.
Psychics are still, legally not human. Legally it is still a crime for a human and a psychic to have sex (since the mention of that law has to my knowledge never been revoked). Look at our world today, we lionize service animals like search and rescue dogs...but no matter how well we treat them, no matter how fondly we look upon them, they are still dogs. Psychics are like that, only just a bit better.

I really think some people have a kind of odd view of the CS. Once we strip away the in-game propaganda and go with what we know is fact... They are REALLY not good. There may be good PEOPLE in the CS but the CS itself is a really bad group. The people that "think" they are doing the right thing are literally, and tragically, dupes. They have bought a bunch of well-packaged lies and think of them as facts.

Psychics aren't people. They can't mate with "humans" and according to the book they are banned from many/most establishments. They also have to have special tags implanted in them and have to have a visible barcode tattoo. If they walk near a sensor, even if they aren't doing anything, security is alerted.

I ran into this actually in a game I ran once as a couple of small sessions for people in a gaming store. (like 3-5 sessions)

It was a CS campaign set in and around Chi-Town. One player made a Psychic and after a mission they wanted to RP some more, so their idea was to go back, find a restaurant and get dinner. They walked in, a few seconds later some security people arrived and asked the Psychic to step outside. She did so, they then told her, "I'm sorry. Our establishment doesn't serve your kind. Your friends can finish eating, and if you would like, out of respect for your service to the Coalition we can put the food you ordered in a disposable bag and let you eat it at another location of your choosing. If you insist on trying to enter we will have to alert the authorities."

The player was SHOCKED as the Player didn't even realize that those are parts of the CS and those are in the main RUE.

[dragonfett]

I have. It still says that, by and large, Psychics are seen as dangerous sort-of humans. The exact text in the RUE is, "Not really human." Since RUE is after both of those... Then we have to assume that the general sentiment of the CS is that Psychics can be heroes, but they are still not human, not fully.

Yep.

I mean even in RMB Dog Boys were seen as 'heroic'...they were (and are) also seen as animals.
Psychics are still, legally not human. Legally it is still a crime for a human and a psychic to have sex (since the mention of that law has to my knowledge never been revoked). Look at our world today, we lionize service animals like search and rescue dogs...but no matter how well we treat them, no matter how fondly we look upon them, they are still dogs. Psychics are like that, only just a bit better.

I really think some people have a kind of odd view of the CS. Once we strip away the in-game propaganda and go with what we know is fact... They are REALLY not good. There may be good PEOPLE in the CS but the CS itself is a really bad group. The people that "think" they are doing the right thing are literally, and tragically, dupes. They have bought a bunch of well-packaged lies and think of them as facts.

Psychics aren't people. They can't mate with "humans" and according to the book they are banned from many/most establishments. They also have to have special tags implanted in them and have to have a visible barcode tattoo. If they walk near a sensor, even if they aren't doing anything, security is alerted.

I ran into this actually in a game I ran once as a couple of small sessions for people in a gaming store. (like 3-5 sessions)

It was a CS campaign set in and around Chi-Town. One player made a Psychic and after a mission they wanted to RP some more, so their idea was to go back, find a restaurant and get dinner. They walked in, a few seconds later some security people arrived and asked the Psychic to step outside. She did so, they then told her, "I'm sorry. Our establishment doesn't serve your kind. Your friends can finish eating, and if you would like, out of respect for your service to the Coalition we can put the food you ordered in a disposable bag and let you eat it at another location of your choosing. If you insist on trying to enter we will have to alert the authorities."

The player was SHOCKED as the Player didn't even realize that those are parts of the CS and those are in the main RUE.

Can you cite a reference where it says that psychics and normal humans can't reproduce together? It was my understanding that psychic humans were just humans with a mutation...

[Proseksword]

I, find exactly the opposite. For example, I pretty much remove the CS from just about every game I run.

Then it's clear that you don't really get the role that the CS is supposed to play in the narrative, or you've decided it's one that doesn't work for you.

Either I have the game take place where the CS has no presence or I kick them to the curb. Why? Because they are problematic. There are almost no real threats as long as the CS is still there. Does anyone really believe the Minion War is going to threaten anything in the setting? Of course not.

The CS is not really intended to be threatened by the player characters on an existential level, at least not unless we're talking about some sort of megaversal power-level Godling/Cosmo-Knight type party. It's intended to be a stabilizing presence in the North American setting, where it prevents things from getting too wild and offers shelter for player characters who are able to pretend to be something they aren't, or compromise their morals for security.

Player characters don't compromise their morals.

If you don't challenge your player's alignments, then you're missing out on a slew of good roleplaying opportunities. If you aren't asking your players to save CS civilians, or deal with discovering a captured and tortured CS Colonel when raiding the enemy base, or putting them in situations where they could save the village their protecting from demons if they could just convince that CS armor company to intervene, then you're missing out on a huge amount of great role-play opportunities.

I've NEVER in-my-life had to choose in game if I was going to side with the CS. Either I was CS already, or we had characters that were incompatible with the CS and therefor it was a non-starter from the word go.

That's a real shame. Perhaps you should try it out sometime?

You can't "compromise" your morals with the CS because the CS never has to compromise.

Both the CS as a whole and individual CS troopers compromise all the time! CS Rangers who work with D-Bees and magic users to gain the intel they need, CS grunts who turn a blind eye and let d-bees escape the attack on their villages, CS troops that are now cooperating with magic users in the minion war for mutual survival, Joseph Prosek working with the Vanguard, Karl Prosek letting folks letting Free Quebec off the hook and granting clemency during the Minion War - the CS compromises all the time! Survival demands it!

They are a plot device that literally is designed to be incompatible with (most) player groups.

They are a plot device which is designed to challenge post player groups. If they were easy to work with, they wouldn't present a challenge!

CS games can be fun, but its not a matter of PCs choosing to compromise their morals. It is a pretty binary situation.

Not really, and it's best if it isn't. You can work with the CS to kill, say, demons or xiticix without hating all magic users. You can allow an innocent d-bee to escape without going AWOL from the coalition. You can even play a Vanguard Ley Line Walker!

A much better situation would be if the CS was weaker, and wasn't completely magic-phobic, and wasn't completely "kill all D-Bees." Why? Because then you could at least have the option of siding with them (albeit anything non-human would still have to accept second hand citizen status, and anyone with magic would be watched like a hawk) and instead of making it a moral choice over human supremacy and extinction of magic it could be about the subjugation of non-humans and the subjugation of magic. Which would be more of a viable option for a group after play had begun.

There's really no challenge to that, though. If you can just easily accept working with the Coalition to gain all the benefits of the Coalition, everybody'd do it! A Coalition that tacitly accepts magic and d-bees would be one that would have conquered all of North America already. It's their hard-line that leaves them so many enemies.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Can you cite a reference where it says that psychics and normal humans can't reproduce together? It was my understanding that psychic humans were just humans with a mutation...

The CS doesn't allow it legally, is what he's saying. Which (is/was) true.

Keep in mind that RUE isn't really "after" CWC/Psyscape. -Parts- of it are (like the new Erin Tarn section), but other parts are literally cut-and-pasted from RMB (city descriptions, population numbers we KNOW have changed, descriptions of psychics/dog boys/others). It's extremely unreliable. Aftermath or the World Books that cover the area is where you want to go if you want "after".

RUE still assumes you're setting your game pre-Siege, given that NONE of the new gear is in the book, even though it rather schizophrenically partially describes the world after the Siege.

Typical Palladium editing.

Also, at no point did i try to say "all psychics" - I said that Psi-Net and Psi-Battalion (soon to be/now Psi-Division) personnel are regarded as heroes. Most CS psychics are part of neither of these organizations. (I think Psi-Batt/Division has less than 20,000 troops under arms, IIRC, and Psi-Net, while much larger, is still a tiny fraction of the 12% of CS citizens who are psychic).

[Proseksword]

Can you cite a reference where it says that psychics and normal humans can't reproduce together? It was my understanding that psychic humans were just humans with a mutation...

The CS doesn't allow it legally, is what he's saying. Which (is/was) true.

He's asking which book that was written in. I honestly don't recall anything like that either.

[Shark_Force]

Can you cite a reference where it says that psychics and normal humans can't reproduce together? It was my understanding that psychic humans were just humans with a mutation...

The CS doesn't allow it legally, is what he's saying. Which (is/was) true.

He's asking which book that was written in. I honestly don't recall anything like that either.

pretty sure it's one of the main books. i'll see if i can dig it up and edit it in to this post.

[dragonfett]

Can you cite a reference where it says that psychics and normal humans can't reproduce together? It was my understanding that psychic humans were just humans with a mutation...

The CS doesn't allow it legally, is what he's saying. Which (is/was) true.

This I knew, but I interpreted what he had said as physically an normal human and psychic human would not be able to produce offspring. I was pretty sure that they could and still can, by the rules, but knowing Palladium Books almost outright ban on cross species mating, I wasn't sure if this is what he was thinking.


Edit: I meant to place this outside of the quote instead of in it, but oh well...

[Pepsi Jedi]

Well it's another matter of people using partial information, and then purposefully skewing it to suit their preconceived notions and how things are treated.

They forget some very important facts.

1) There's more psychics than most people realize.
10% of all humans are Major psyhics. That means 1 in 10 people in the CS population are Major Psychis
15% of all humans are minor psychics. That's another 1.5 in ten people.

For a total of 1 in 4 people in the population being psionic in the CS. The write up does say that there are psi-scanners that pick up the chip, but they skip past the part that most psychics ... aren't actually chipped. Minor psychics are just noted in a file and arn't chipped or tattooed.

Only Major and Master level ones are. (Master level doesn't happen accidently by default, the only way to 'be' one is to choose the occ/rcc that 'is' one and it seems they make up such a small percentage as to not 'rate' a percent. So 1% or fewer.)

So you're back down to 1 in 10 psychics being chipped and coded. The code goes on the back of the neck. a place easily covered by a collar and or long hair. Or bandanna's or other fashion choices.
CS Military places have the readers sure. But what psychic is going to be randomly walking around a Military fortification? Few.

It does mention chip readers in some businesses and restaurants. It gives indication silent or other wise when a major psychic comes in. It does say that some places don't allow them on the premisis, but it's not like some people are making out. They're not lynched. It's a quarter of the population.

The only places you're going to see denying service due to someone being psychc is ultra high end places, that are -also- bigoted against psychics. Cutting out a QUARTER of the over all population is going to be financial suicide for most businesses. The only ones getting away with it are going to be the ones that turn away ALOT of people for a lot of different reasons. I'm sure they exist. Just like exclusive white clubs (And black ones) Exist in the real world, but they're going to be few and far between.

Other than some bigots (Which surely exist. CS or no.) There's no real indication that they suffer anything else in CS society. It's 1 in 4 people after all. I'm sure it's much like minorities are treated in OUR society. yes there's some bigots and redneck types that treat them bad. For sure. Some one might give 'non' psychcis a job over psycyhics, because.. it's a bigoted society (All human societies are in some way) But they're not spat on in the streets or anything. Would you risk such a thing if 1 in 4 people in EVERY Group is going to rate in that minority that you're spitting on? And more than that.. the one's your trying to spit on.. are the ones with the powers! lol


There is ZERO indication about psyhics not being allowed to breed with non psychics. Other than idiot rednecks like we have that don't want a white girl with a black guy, you don't see that thing at all.

It's not mentioned in RUE at all.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

For a total of 1 in 4 people in the population being psionic in the CS.

SB1 says 12%. of the CS population is psychics. The reason for there being less psychics in the CS probably largely revolve around the fact that they are treated as second class citizens, so a lot of them choose to leave.

12% is still an awful lot of people, though. (SB1 also included (at the time) Free Quebec, so the stats might be off slightly, since FQ throw Psychics out on their asses)

[eliakon]

I would point out that PCs are supposed to be 'high end' of the spectrum so the rules for PC creation may not apply to the population at large.
Ergo, just because one in four human PCs can be a psi doesn't mean that one in four humans is a psi. Especially if we have statements in other books about different numbers (hello SB1)

Regardless of if it is 12% or 25% it is still a lot of psychics.

[eliakon]

I, find exactly the opposite. For example, I pretty much remove the CS from just about every game I run.

Then it's clear that you don't really get the role that the CS is supposed to play in the narrative, or you've decided it's one that doesn't work for you.

Either I have the game take place where the CS has no presence or I kick them to the curb. Why? Because they are problematic. There are almost no real threats as long as the CS is still there. Does anyone really believe the Minion War is going to threaten anything in the setting? Of course not.

The CS is not really intended to be threatened by the player characters on an existential level, at least not unless we're talking about some sort of megaversal power-level Godling/Cosmo-Knight type party. It's intended to be a stabilizing presence in the North American setting, where it prevents things from getting too wild and offers shelter for player characters who are able to pretend to be something they aren't, or compromise their morals for security.

That wasn't what he said though.
First off the CS seems to exist solely to provide an existential threat to groups that players are likely to be in (which is one reason I think that the CKs were set against them...so that they would be enemies of this very popular PC group too)
Second they are such powerhouses that there is no threat to them... not from PCs, but anything. They are basically the untouchable Bigger Fish out there to make sure that there is threat and danger.

Player characters don't compromise their morals.

If you don't challenge your player's alignments, then you're missing out on a slew of good roleplaying opportunities. If you aren't asking your players to save CS civilians, or deal with discovering a captured and tortured CS Colonel when raiding the enemy base, or putting them in situations where they could save the village their protecting from demons if they could just convince that CS armor company to intervene, then you're missing out on a huge amount of great role-play opportunities.

That isn't compromising their morals though.
I have yet to see a game where forcing players to compromise their characters morals EVER went well. Its a good way to get a lot of angry people though.
And trying to say "well you all are pro freedom people...but I am going to make you work to support Pure Evil <tm>even though it violates every one of your players alignments because I think it would be amusing" is going to break most games.

I've NEVER in-my-life had to choose in game if I was going to side with the CS. Either I was CS already, or we had characters that were incompatible with the CS and therefor it was a non-starter from the word go.

That's a real shame. Perhaps you should try it out sometime?

Why? I have never played a WWII game where I was choosing to play a loyal SS member unless the plan was for us to go rouge someplace. Probably because I find that roleplaying out atrocities, and supporting evil isn't fun.

You can't "compromise" your morals with the CS because the CS never has to compromise.

Both the CS as a whole and individual CS troopers compromise all the time! CS Rangers who work with D-Bees and magic users to gain the intel they need, CS grunts who turn a blind eye and let d-bees escape the attack on their villages, CS troops that are now cooperating with magic users in the minion war for mutual survival, Joseph Prosek working with the Vanguard, Karl Prosek letting folks letting Free Quebec off the hook and granting clemency during the Minion War - the CS compromises all the time! Survival demands it!

I don't think that "following orders to work with someone up until you betray them" is compromising morals.
I don't think that "dealing with bigger threats first" is compromising
ESPECIALLY when it is all done in secret or under duress...
When the CS starts doing stuff like this publicly, and when they are NOT under duress I will call it 'compromising' until then its just playing along.

They are a plot device that literally is designed to be incompatible with (most) player groups.

They are a plot device which is designed to challenge post player groups. If they were easy to work with, they wouldn't present a challenge!

The two are not exclusive.
Since as written unless one makes all sorts of fanon changes to the CS to remove the worst abuses, or reworks the alignment system and prohibits any PCs from playing mages, psychics, mutants, dee-bees, crazies, or human sub-groups then yeah...it is incompatible with most player groups.
I have been playing Rifts since the game came out. The only groups I have ever seen that were compatible with the CS in any way... were specifically built to be CS groups from the get go.

CS games can be fun, but its not a matter of PCs choosing to compromise their morals. It is a pretty binary situation.

Not really, and it's best if it isn't. You can work with the CS to kill, say, demons or xiticix without hating all magic users. You can allow an innocent d-bee to escape without going AWOL from the coalition. You can even play a Vanguard Ley Line Walker!

The first isn't a CS game, the second is a death sentence looking for a corpse, and the third again isn't CS, its Vanguard who likes to pretend that they are CS.

A much better situation would be if the CS was weaker, and wasn't completely magic-phobic, and wasn't completely "kill all D-Bees." Why? Because then you could at least have the option of siding with them (albeit anything non-human would still have to accept second hand citizen status, and anyone with magic would be watched like a hawk) and instead of making it a moral choice over human supremacy and extinction of magic it could be about the subjugation of non-humans and the subjugation of magic. Which would be more of a viable option for a group after play had begun.

There's really no challenge to that, though. If you can just easily accept working with the Coalition to gain all the benefits of the Coalition, everybody'd do it! A Coalition that tacitly accepts magic and d-bees would be one that would have conquered all of North America already. It's their hard-line that leaves them so many enemies.

I don't think that most people are going to accept slavery as second or third class citizens.
Right now as written the very idea of opposing the CS is absurd. No one can do it, why bother you cant fight them, you cant negotiate with them, all you can do is run or hide. Or get plot armor to keep you in play so there is something left for PCs to do.

[Shark_Force]

well, i can't find the "can't have children with non-psychics" statement in my core books. must be somewhere else.

that said, it's pretty easy to find the part where they something like 85+ percent of the population supported having them chipped because they don't consider them to be real humans, and let's face it that doesn't exactly imply people are going to react favourably towards breeding with them.

as to it being rare for a psychic to be stopped... well, i doubt that. all government buildings, most industrial complexes (good luck getting work, by the way), and many businesses, stores, restaurants, and *private homes* have the scanners, and further explicitly states that many establishments do not allow those psychics in.

so, uhhh... actually, it is pretty typical for a restaurant to just turn down psychics, per the books. page 138-139 in my copy of the RUE goes over how psychics are treated in the CS, and it isn't good.