Titanium in PFRPG

[pblackcrow]

How much would titanium cost in PFRPG, per 1 pound bars? I will have to house rule it. I can't find it in the book.

[kiralon]

Making it and shaping it would be incredibly difficult in the palladium world just like aluminium, and titanium only has a better strength to weight ratio. The strongest steels are actually tougher than titanium. Titanium alloys are better for aircraft because of the better strength to weight ratio but on the whole titanium wouldn't really be used in a pretech era.

But way more expensive then it would be worth.

[glitterboy2098]

it's pretty useless prior to industrial technology being developed (which allows it to be produced and worked), so unless Alchemists have some esoteric use for it i doubt it would be regarded as anything other than a curiosity.

[Bill]

I think it would be quite expensive. Titanium was impossible to isolate in any significant quantity until 1937 when William Kroll developed a process to refine it using volatile chemicals and high temperatures. Alchemy could obviously short-cut that though.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Ti would be at least x10 the cost of Al.
But if you know that before the industrial refining of Al was developed. Volume per volume Al was more expensive then any of the platinum group metals. (gold, silver, platinum, etc..)
Even today (based on some real world numbers based on Wire rings) Ti is about 4 times as expensive as Al.

The way I would rule it a Ti made armor would be x1000 the cost of a carbon steal body armor.
--------------

Could magic be used to mine and refine Ti and Al in the game? yep….!!!!IF!!!!! the mage had any clue that the metals existed.

side note:I posted a magic mining spell in the fan spells topic ages ago.

Note that Al and Ti are NEVER found in their pure form in nature.

[ShadowHawk]

well, metallurgy is known to all alchemists in our games over a certain level. along with it the recipes for mystic electrum, damascus steel, hell; steel in general. that being said, I'm not sure about the cost or what it would be per pound.

but it is for the most part the equal to refining and strengthened of silver...AKA mithril. it's lighter and stronger than steel. hummm...I think I just hit on an experiment to try with a blacksmith friend of mine...take raw titanium and mix it with a silver.

Drewkitty, Shannon was telling me something interesting a few games back...that the queen of England's scepter was considered almost priceless before...(um...hell...was it the late 1800 or early 1900s?)...because it has a small ball of aluminum.

anyway, like I said before I'm at a loss here man. I have no idea what kind of price to put on a titanium golem.

[kiralon]

The titanium golem would be about half the weight of a steel golem of the same size, have almost the same sdc, be heat, cold and acid resistant.
Refining it requires the titanium ore to be treated with chloirine, because the reason titanium is stable is that it forms a titanium oxide over itself when it contacts oxygen. Titanium Oxide is very inert. Titanium is fairly reactive. The chlorine take the place of the oxygen and you know have titanium chloride. You then remove the chlorine with sodium or magnesium. This has to be done at 1200'c or 2192f. The things you are doing this in has to be airtight, because if any oxygen gets in it ruins it all. Usually argon is pumped into the "reactor" to keep the oxygen out. Once sealed it has to stay there for a few days depending on the size of the reactor. This also means that Titanium is made in batches and not in a continuous line like steel.

It would be cheaper to make the thing out of Mithril, because if an alchemist can do all that why is he wasting time on making titanium when he should be making rail guns and nukes, unless he is wishing the titanium into existence.

and after you have finished you still have a golem that isn't quite as strong as a steel golem, but is a lot less likely to break the marble flooring.

The strongest non alloy metal is tungsten, which can take the most pressure before warping\breaking. The hardest metal is chromium. There is also a magnesium alloy out there that is close to being as tough as titanium alloys. Vanadium steel is probably the best to make the golem out of if weight isn't a problem.


So at a guess titanium would be at least the cost of gantrium, if not more.

[drewkitty ~..~]

snip…
Titanium Oxide is very inert. Titanium is fairly reactive.
…snip

The same it true with Al.

It would be cheaper to make the thing out of Mithril, ….snip

Nope…not going to happen in the Megaverse. Mithril is under a copy-write.

[kiralon]

Baalrog lol.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Baalrog lol.

They added an extra 'a'.

[Bill]

Mythryll?

[pblackcrow]

Hum, well...Since I CAN'T find a damn thing that is consistent on the strength of or ANY sort of weight per cubic foot chart on mithril...And I don't want it to fall through the decks of my bloody ships! THAT IS EXACTLY WHY!

Guys, listen...I know what it takes to make titanium. I also know when vacuums were discovered...I am a huge fan of the BBC TV documentary Connection, too bad I hear James Burke isn't doing very well. And chlorine IS NOT a new thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorine#History ... Nor is pressure cooking. Now, please, tell me...is there any reason why an alchemist couldn't do it?

I appreciate the conversation. But my question remains unanswered. And now that you have danced around that questions, I would like an answer, PLEASE. Or give me an SDC conversion and weight on mithril...only call it Silver steel. Don't tell me it's impossible or impractical.

MAKE SOMETHING UP IF YOU HAVE TO!

[kiralon]

Having an extra a wouldn't protect it from a trademark complaint as it is very obviously a balrog from lotr. What protects it now is the lack of the Tolkien foundation or middle earth enterprises having done anything about it, and as mithril has been used in multiple things and hasn't been trademarked and then defended means its there for open use.



Some of the special materials I use

Special Materials for forging and enchanting.

Palladium
Ultra rare, items made from %10 Palladium can have double the amount of enchantments, Can hold 500ppe per 10grams. Can parry magical energy attacks like fire and lightning, turning the spell back into ppe to be stored. a Full suit of armour made from palladium will have -1 ar, -%25 sdc, be %25 heavier then steel, but will add 5 levels to the spells of the caster and will automatically absorb any spell cast at the wielder. Alchemists have speculated that this awesome material exists in large quantities in the centre of the world.
Value Modifier: Minimum - get a book, fill it with 0's but put a 1 at the start.


Miithril:
Also known as True Siilver, is lighter and stronger than steel and is innately magical.
Powers – It is %50 lighter than the same amount of steel, and is much stronger with +%50 sdc. It innately does +1 damage with weapons but most weapons do less damage from less weight excepting arrowheads and quarrels. Any weapon made from miithril is classed as a siilver weapon and a magic weapon.
Value Modifier: Minimum x100gp but up to x1000gp

Adamantite:
One of the strongest material known, it is heavier than steel, stonger than
miithril and very rigid, but its strength makes up for its lack of flexibility when used with weapons.
Powers – It is x3 heavier and gives +%500 sdc, + 1 AR for half suits and +2 AR for full suits and interferes with magic casting twice as much.
Weapons made from Adamantite are +1 die damage but -2 to strike and -4 to parry except with shields which are -4 to strike and -2 to parry (and these negatives are halved if you have a strength of 20 or higher, and are negated if you have supernatural strength). Adamantite weapons are classed as magic weapons.
Value Modifier: x100gp to x1000gp but usually slightly more than miithril.


Orichalcum:
An Ultra rare mineral found only in a certain mountain range, It is to copper as
mithril is to silver, Also known as slain mountain copper or true copper. Floats on water, is as strong as miithril, is superconductive at room temperature and a full suit of armour made from it makes the wearer immune to electrickery (earths to ground). Can be enchanted easily (%50 less cost in enchanting materials, however this is rarely passed onto the customer), very useful in wand making. Full suits don’t interfere with spellcasting.
Powers - +%50 sdc, no negatives to fine manual work. Using a shield made with it can deflect direct damage spells (parry at -5, need to get 16 or higher, modified by casters spell strength and be able to see attack coming).
Value Modifier: x1000gp to x5000gp


Enchanted Glass:
LotSW has the best glassblowers, and have found that if they make the
glass out of a particular mix of sand which is only found it the Land of the South Winds, which is enchanted during the process which makes the weapons and items made from it somewhat unbreakable. The glassmakers have refined the art to majestic proportions and can have runes and symbols inside the glass.
Powers: Razor edge give +1 dice and +3 damage, can be enchanted easily, can store ppe/isp/chi. Whenever used to parry a roll of 1 will break the item. Armour made from Enchanted Glass is %15 lighter, has %10 less sdc but spells can be cast by wearer without interference but anytime It takes damage higher than its AR its AR goes down by 1.
Value Modifier: x50gp to x200gp


Sky Iron:
Made from the flaming rocks that fall from the sky so is very rare. Is very hard to enchant (enchantment costs x 5, -%50 from enchanting rolls) but does an extra 1d of damage and ignores any organic armour (including organic mdc armour), so it ignores a dragons AR but not an Iron golems for example.
Has the same SDC as normal armour but ignores the first 6 damage done to it per hit
Value Modifier: x500gp to x1000gp

Liraen:
Enchanted Living Coral, used extensively by underwater peoples, especially merfolk.
Is very tough when wet, but brittle when it dries out, as this kills it (2d4 hrs).
Armour made of living coral has %20 more sdc, is %60 lighter (less material used) and when underwater regenerates 2 sdc per hour. Even if cut to pieces the biggest piece is likely to regrow if left underwater.
Fairly useless in weapon making (can’t hold an edge, and flexes a fair bit), but can hold 1 more enchantment then normal.
Value Modifier: x25gp to x150gp

Demonsteel:
One of the more common names of steel or iron quenched in the blood of demons and/or devils, The metal goes black with an oily green sheen. Gives +2 penetrate armour and an extra 2 dice of damage vs magical good (principled or scrupulous) beings (Unicorns, dragons, faeries etc) and +2 damage to good non-supernatural beings (Humans, elves etc). Has a distinct aura of evil and is thought to influence the wielder into doing more evil (may or may not be true, those who wield the cursed steel are likely to be bad anyway). Can have 1 less enchantment than normal.
Value Modifier: x100gp to x1000gp

[ShadowHawk]

psst, you forgot Nth metal for all of us DC fans.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Having an extra a wouldn't protect it from a trademark complaint as it is very obviously a balrog from lotr. What protects it now is the lack of the Tolkien foundation or middle earth enterprises having done anything about it, and as mithril has been used in multiple things and hasn't been trademarked and then defended means its there for open use.

And with the LotR and Hobbit movies there are licensees now involved with protecting the Tolkien estate.

Miithril:
Also known as True Siilver, is lighter and stronger than steel and is innately magical.
Powers – It is %50 lighter than the same amount of steel, and is much stronger with +%50 sdc. It innately does +1 damage with weapons but most weapons do less damage from less weight excepting arrowheads and quarrels. Any weapon made from miithril is classed as a siilver weapon and a magic weapon.
Value Modifier: Minimum x100gp but up to x1000gp

Tolkien Copywrite

Adamantite:
One of the strongest material known, it is heavier than steel, stonger than
miithril and very rigid, but its strength makes up for its lack of flexibility when used with weapons.
Powers – It is x3 heavier and gives +%500 sdc, + 1 AR for half suits and +2 AR for full suits and interferes with magic casting twice as much.
Weapons made from Adamantite are +1 die damage but -2 to strike and -4 to parry except with shields which are -4 to strike and -2 to parry (and these negatives are halved if you have a strength of 20 or higher, and are negated if you have supernatural strength). Adamantite weapons are classed as magic weapons.
Value Modifier: x100gp to x1000gp but usually slightly more than miithril.

Marvel Copywrite

[glitterboy2098]

to be honest, it would be better to look at real world mythical materials from antiquity's stories and records.
like Orichalcum, Hepatizon, Alkahest, Azoth, Batrachite, and Thokcha,


also, Adamant and "adamantine" actually come from ancient writings.. the marvel trademark is specifically "adamantium". Adamant, and Adamantine, is generally understood as "anything very very hard" when translating the old documents, it's been used for both metal and gemstones.

[kiralon]

Having an extra a wouldn't protect it from a trademark complaint as it is very obviously a balrog from lotr. What protects it now is the lack of the Tolkien foundation or middle earth enterprises having done anything about it, and as mithril has been used in multiple things and hasn't been trademarked and then defended means its there for open use.

And with the LotR and Hobbit movies there are licensees now involved with protecting the Tolkien estate.

Miithril:
Also known as True Siilver, is lighter and stronger than steel and is innately magical.
Powers – It is %50 lighter than the same amount of steel, and is much stronger with +%50 sdc. It innately does +1 damage with weapons but most weapons do less damage from less weight excepting arrowheads and quarrels. Any weapon made from miithril is classed as a siilver weapon and a magic weapon.
Value Modifier: Minimum x100gp but up to x1000gp

Tolkien Copywrite

Adamantite:
One of the strongest material known, it is heavier than steel, stonger than
miithril and very rigid, but its strength makes up for its lack of flexibility when used with weapons.
Powers – It is x3 heavier and gives +%500 sdc, + 1 AR for half suits and +2 AR for full suits and interferes with magic casting twice as much.
Weapons made from Adamantite are +1 die damage but -2 to strike and -4 to parry except with shields which are -4 to strike and -2 to parry (and these negatives are halved if you have a strength of 20 or higher, and are negated if you have supernatural strength). Adamantite weapons are classed as magic weapons.
Value Modifier: x100gp to x1000gp but usually slightly more than miithril.

Marvel Copywrite

You might want to check copyright laws
Can't Copyright a single word, you can trademark it but copyright is for a work. Adamantite is a word used through history based from the word adamant so no trademark there. Adamantium might be trademarked and I cant be bothered looking it up, lucky im not using the word.
By your rules my miithril and true siilver get by because they aren't the same word (balrog and baalrog)
But you a right, mithril has now been trademarked, the last time I checked it hadn't but saul zaents trademarked it 2011 (from the movies)

[pblackcrow]

Having an extra a wouldn't protect it from a trademark complaint as it is very obviously a balrog from lotr. What protects it now is the lack of the Tolkien foundation or middle earth enterprises having done anything about it, and as mithril has been used in multiple things and hasn't been trademarked and then defended means its there for open use.



Some of the special materials I use

Special Materials for forging and enchanting.

Palladium
Ultra rare, items made from %10 Palladium can have double the amount of enchantments, Can hold 500ppe per 10grams. Can parry magical energy attacks like fire and lightning, turning the spell back into ppe to be stored. a Full suit of armour made from palladium will have -1 ar, -%25 sdc, be %25 heavier then steel, but will add 5 levels to the spells of the caster and will automatically absorb any spell cast at the wielder. Alchemists have speculated that this awesome material exists in large quantities in the centre of the world.
Value Modifier: Minimum - get a book, fill it with 0's but put a 1 at the start.


Miithril:
Also known as True Siilver, is lighter and stronger than steel and is innately magical.
Powers – It is %50 lighter than the same amount of steel, and is much stronger with +%50 sdc. It innately does +1 damage with weapons but most weapons do less damage from less weight excepting arrowheads and quarrels. Any weapon made from miithril is classed as a siilver weapon and a magic weapon.
Value Modifier: Minimum x100gp but up to x1000gp

Adamantite:
One of the strongest material known, it is heavier than steel, stonger than
miithril and very rigid, but its strength makes up for its lack of flexibility when used with weapons.
Powers – It is x3 heavier and gives +%500 sdc, + 1 AR for half suits and +2 AR for full suits and interferes with magic casting twice as much.
Weapons made from Adamantite are +1 die damage but -2 to strike and -4 to parry except with shields which are -4 to strike and -2 to parry (and these negatives are halved if you have a strength of 20 or higher, and are negated if you have supernatural strength). Adamantite weapons are classed as magic weapons.
Value Modifier: x100gp to x1000gp but usually slightly more than miithril.


Orichalcum:
An Ultra rare mineral found only in a certain mountain range, It is to copper as
mithril is to silver, Also known as slain mountain copper or true copper. Floats on water, is as strong as miithril, is superconductive at room temperature and a full suit of armour made from it makes the wearer immune to electrickery (earths to ground). Can be enchanted easily (%50 less cost in enchanting materials, however this is rarely passed onto the customer), very useful in wand making. Full suits don’t interfere with spellcasting.
Powers - +%50 sdc, no negatives to fine manual work. Using a shield made with it can deflect direct damage spells (parry at -5, need to get 16 or higher, modified by casters spell strength and be able to see attack coming).
Value Modifier: x1000gp to x5000gp


Enchanted Glass:
LotSW has the best glassblowers, and have found that if they make the
glass out of a particular mix of sand which is only found it the Land of the South Winds, which is enchanted during the process which makes the weapons and items made from it somewhat unbreakable. The glassmakers have refined the art to majestic proportions and can have runes and symbols inside the glass.
Powers: Razor edge give +1 dice and +3 damage, can be enchanted easily, can store ppe/isp/chi. Whenever used to parry a roll of 1 will break the item. Armour made from Enchanted Glass is %15 lighter, has %10 less sdc but spells can be cast by wearer without interference but anytime It takes damage higher than its AR its AR goes down by 1.
Value Modifier: x50gp to x200gp


Sky Iron:
Made from the flaming rocks that fall from the sky so is very rare. Is very hard to enchant (enchantment costs x 5, -%50 from enchanting rolls) but does an extra 1d of damage and ignores any organic armour (including organic mdc armour), so it ignores a dragons AR but not an Iron golems for example.
Has the same SDC as normal armour but ignores the first 6 damage done to it per hit
Value Modifier: x500gp to x1000gp

Liraen:
Enchanted Living Coral, used extensively by underwater peoples, especially merfolk.
Is very tough when wet, but brittle when it dries out, as this kills it (2d4 hrs).
Armour made of living coral has %20 more sdc, is %60 lighter (less material used) and when underwater regenerates 2 sdc per hour. Even if cut to pieces the biggest piece is likely to regrow if left underwater.
Fairly useless in weapon making (can’t hold an edge, and flexes a fair bit), but can hold 1 more enchantment then normal.
Value Modifier: x25gp to x150gp

Demonsteel:
One of the more common names of steel or iron quenched in the blood of demons and/or devils, The metal goes black with an oily green sheen. Gives +2 penetrate armour and an extra 2 dice of damage vs magical good (principled or scrupulous) beings (Unicorns, dragons, faeries etc) and +2 damage to good non-supernatural beings (Humans, elves etc). Has a distinct aura of evil and is thought to influence the wielder into doing more evil (may or may not be true, those who wield the cursed steel are likely to be bad anyway). Can have 1 less enchantment than normal.
Value Modifier: x100gp to x1000gp

Thank you, Mate, it does help. But are these prices in oz, gram, pound, or what? You forget, I need exact amounts.

[pblackcrow]

Having an extra a wouldn't protect it from a trademark complaint as it is very obviously a balrog from lotr. What protects it now is the lack of the Tolkien foundation or middle earth enterprises having done anything about it, and as mithril has been used in multiple things and hasn't been trademarked and then defended means its there for open use.

And with the LotR and Hobbit movies there are licensees now involved with protecting the Tolkien estate.

Miithril:
Also known as True Siilver, is lighter and stronger than steel and is innately magical.
Powers – It is %50 lighter than the same amount of steel, and is much stronger with +%50 sdc. It innately does +1 damage with weapons but most weapons do less damage from less weight excepting arrowheads and quarrels. Any weapon made from miithril is classed as a siilver weapon and a magic weapon.
Value Modifier: Minimum x100gp but up to x1000gp

Tolkien Copywrite

Adamantite:
One of the strongest material known, it is heavier than steel, stonger than
miithril and very rigid, but its strength makes up for its lack of flexibility when used with weapons.
Powers – It is x3 heavier and gives +%500 sdc, + 1 AR for half suits and +2 AR for full suits and interferes with magic casting twice as much.
Weapons made from Adamantite are +1 die damage but -2 to strike and -4 to parry except with shields which are -4 to strike and -2 to parry (and these negatives are halved if you have a strength of 20 or higher, and are negated if you have supernatural strength). Adamantite weapons are classed as magic weapons.
Value Modifier: x100gp to x1000gp but usually slightly more than miithril.

Marvel Copywrite

YOU CAN'T COPY WRITE A BLOODY WORD! Sorry! You can only trademark. Just like I can't patent my communication sheet that I use to communicate when the power goes off.

[kiralon]

The price is the multiplier. Find the cost of what you are making, then use the multiplier, so say a sword takes 3 ingots of steel, if an ingot of steel is 15 gold the miithril ingot version could be from 1500 to 15000 gold per ingot depending on how close to the source they are. In my game the rare stuff is usually in dangerous places, so the players can either buy cheap at the source and maybe get eaten by a grue, or they buy it in a town on the other side of the world for pretty much the maximum cost.

[Library Ogre]

Adamantite:
One of the strongest material known, it is heavier than steel, stonger than
miithril and very rigid, but its strength makes up for its lack of flexibility when used with weapons.
Powers – It is x3 heavier and gives +%500 sdc, + 1 AR for half suits and +2 AR for full suits and interferes with magic casting twice as much.
Weapons made from Adamantite are +1 die damage but -2 to strike and -4 to parry except with shields which are -4 to strike and -2 to parry (and these negatives are halved if you have a strength of 20 or higher, and are negated if you have supernatural strength). Adamantite weapons are classed as magic weapons.
Value Modifier: x100gp to x1000gp but usually slightly more than miithril.

Marvel Copywrite

Marvel has trademarked Adamantium, but Adamantite is not trademarked. And while Mithril might be an original creation of Tolkien, Adamantium is a call back to Adamas, the Latin for diamond.

[pblackcrow]

The price is the multiplier. Find the cost of what you are making, then use the multiplier, so say a sword takes 3 ingots of steel, if an ingot of steel is 15 gold the miithril ingot version could be from 1500 to 15000 gold per ingot depending on how close to the source they are. In my game the rare stuff is usually in dangerous places, so the players can either buy cheap at the source and maybe get eaten by a grue, or they buy it in a town on the other side of the world for pretty much the maximum cost.

How much do the ingots weigh?

[drewkitty ~..~]

You all knew that I was pointing out that the mentioned "Ideas" are properties of companies and the Tolkien estate. I was talking about the Ideas that those collections of letters represent.

Besides it would not of gotten raised if the poster had said he created the list. ( *raises a halting finger as if to say 'stop and think about it'* He does not specifically say this in any way in that post. And leaving everyone to intuit his meaning does not count as saying it.)
Having not said this, something had to be noted that, some of the stuff mentioned was not PB canon.
So chill.


Now that everyone has vented, let's just move along.

[kiralon]

The price is the multiplier. Find the cost of what you are making, then use the multiplier, so say a sword takes 3 ingots of steel, if an ingot of steel is 15 gold the miithril ingot version could be from 1500 to 15000 gold per ingot depending on how close to the source they are. In my game the rare stuff is usually in dangerous places, so the players can either buy cheap at the source and maybe get eaten by a grue, or they buy it in a town on the other side of the world for pretty much the maximum cost.

How much do the ingots weigh?

That's a good question, for my game 2kg or approx. 4.5 lbs.

But I also have changed the value of gold, and the prices in the book are generally cost in silver for my games now as well. Gold is a much rarer coinage.

[ShadowHawk]

You all knew that I was pointing out that the mentioned "Ideas" are properties of companies and the Tolkien estate. I was talking about the Ideas that those collections of letters represent.

Besides it would not of gotten raised if the poster had said he created the list. ( *raises a halting finger as if to say 'stop and think about it'* He does not specifically say this in any way in that post. And leaving everyone to intuit his meaning does not count as saying it.)
Having not said this, something had to be noted that, some of the stuff mentioned was not PB canon.
So chill.


Now that everyone has vented, let's just move along.

NONE of this is OR EVER WAS meant to be PB canon! if it was, he wouldn't have said "I will have to house rule it. I can't find it in the book."

I am going to say something and I want everyone to listen...this was Shannon's (PBlackCrow's) last post for a while, until he can calm down and as you said "chill". and yes, part of it is the fact that he is um..."outside the norm"...there and most of the people there in Tennessee use their religion to treat him like crap.

I think that he is right, most people there don't wants to think anymore and go beyond the limits of their understanding and push themselves to understand.

[tuvermage]

This is a tricky one. Aluminum in the Napoleonic era was worth more than gold, now it's very cheap. It's because electrical power. A wizard could have figured out that using electrical spells on aluminum ore could create aluminum cheaply. Also, if you have aluminum, then you can use it to make titanium from titanium dioxide in a thermite reaction (not just for iron oxides). While this would create raw titanium, it doesn't get it hot enough to melt the titanium so you would have titanium dust. If your wizard tried to use magic to melt the titanium dust to pour an ingot, it would oxide and turn back into titanium dioxide. Now, you could use spells to remove the air from the area and then apply magic heat to melt it into an ingot, but then working titanium into a weapon you can run into the same oxygen problems. So it would be possible to get titanium in the setting, but given the factors I would say it would be stupid expensive and only one or two people in the world can do it. Heck I would even make it where one guy knows how to make the titanium but can't make anything from it and another person knows how to work it. Make a quest out of the journey between the two.

[kiralon]

The problem is you are thinking with prior knowledge, the magic users especially tend not to bother with mundane things and try to forward magic research. Making titanium needs a level of technology that palladium doesn't have as they use magic instead. How would they know titanium dioxide exists, not to mention the process to make titanium. If a player even mentioned the word titanium with a thought to making it I would warn them about using player knowledge in game. Otherwise making a gun is a simpler process. When the players went to make their titanium some orks with ak-47's would shoot em dead.

[pblackcrow]

The price is the multiplier. Find the cost of what you are making, then use the multiplier, so say a sword takes 3 ingots of steel, if an ingot of steel is 15 gold the miithril ingot version could be from 1500 to 15000 gold per ingot depending on how close to the source they are. In my game the rare stuff is usually in dangerous places, so the players can either buy cheap at the source and maybe get eaten by a grue, or they buy it in a town on the other side of the world for pretty much the maximum cost.

How much do the ingots weigh?

That's a good question, for my game 2kg or approx. 4.5 lbs.

But I also have changed the value of gold, and the prices in the book are generally cost in silver for my games now as well. Gold is a much rarer coinage.

Thank you.

[pblackcrow]

You all knew that I was pointing out that the mentioned "Ideas" are properties of companies and the Tolkien estate. I was talking about the Ideas that those collections of letters represent.

Besides it would not of gotten raised if the poster had said he created the list. ( *raises a halting finger as if to say 'stop and think about it'* He does not specifically say this in any way in that post. And leaving everyone to intuit his meaning does not count as saying it.)
Having not said this, something had to be noted that, some of the stuff mentioned was not PB canon.
So chill.


Now that everyone has vented, let's just move along.

NONE of this is OR EVER WAS meant to be PB canon! if it was, he wouldn't have said "I will have to house rule it. I can't find it in the book."

I am going to say something and I want everyone to listen...this was Shannon's (PBlackCrow's) last post for a while, until he can calm down and as you said "chill". and yes, part of it is the fact that he is um..."outside the norm"...there and most of the people there in Tennessee use their religion to treat him like crap.

I think that he is right, most people there don't wants to think anymore and go beyond the limits of their understanding and push themselves to understand.

We will have words later about this.

[pblackcrow]

The problem is you are thinking with prior knowledge, the magic users especially tend not to bother with mundane things and try to forward magic research. Making titanium needs a level of technology that palladium doesn't have as they use magic instead. How would they know titanium dioxide exists, not to mention the process to make titanium. If a player even mentioned the word titanium with a thought to making it I would warn them about using player knowledge in game. Otherwise making a gun is a simpler process. When the players went to make their titanium some orks with ak-47's would shoot em dead.

The question was not asked wanting a response, instead it was used as a "statement of facts" for this planet...until it is asked correctly, I am not going to explain it. And if Shawn does, he can forget that Facebook game he wishes me to run.