I don't know exactly how to ask this-MMORPG anyone?

[McHowl]

I've been a die-hard Palladium Games fan, player, GMer, buyer and tutor since I was in Middle School (when I started the Monticello Middle School Role-Playing Game Club with 2 of my friends and about a dozen or so other players who showed up); So basically what I'm asking is this:

Is there anyone else out there who wants to see a truly Multi-Genre, Massively Multi-Player, Online RPG that takes the Rifts game and codes it into the modern digital age the way it SHOULD be and CAN be done?

I'm talking about a game that would do what the Rifts game CAN do; It would allow a player to create a character from one of Palladium Games' games/realms, and start off adventuring in that particular realm, and later (if desired by the player) traverse the dimensional barrier to another realm and continue adventuring with that character

I don't know-maybe I'm the only one who thinks that because I know several gamers and computer programmers who know that A) Such a game is possible because we do it all the time, and B) The Code is possible because it has already been done on a smaller scale, that therefore it CAN be done

So, if I'm the only one who thinks it CAN be DONE, and DONE RIGHT, then go ahead and tell me so, and I'll go ahead and do it anyway;

[Forar]

No.

"Can" it be done? Sure. We could have people begging for tanks and healers for the Prossek raid in search of phat epic loots like any other WoW cookie cutter ripoff.

Would it remotely carry the flavour of Rifts? Should it be done? Probably not. It's an immense amount of work, time, money, and other resources to manage, update, and otherwise run such a game. Obviously PB wouldn't be the ones learning to code and run it from the ground up, but I don't think the Rifts license is nearly valuable enough to draw in a large audience (forget WoW numbers, I'm talking 2nd or 3rd tier MMOs). Warhammer Fantasy probably has a larger fanbase, and its MMO was put in Beta and then died in about a year and a half.

No matter how hands off PB was, it'd still require their okay/signature for details, input, and I frankly would be surprised if they didn't actively demand at least some creative control over their IP, which would mean both slow downs for the developer, and slow downs for PB as they had to split off their time from writing/editing/working on Robotech Tactics/etc.

It'd be one more thing on an already full plate.

[Shark_Force]

basically, it isn't too hard to make an MMO (there's a gazillion of them out there). but it is very hard to make a good MMO that is of interest. there is one WoW. there are hundreds of other MMORPGs that are nowhere near as good and haven't lasted nearly as long, and there are only a few that have lasted for any appreciable length of time and made remotely near as much (everquest is probably second place by a landslide, and even that isn't even close. if you go to a typical group of people and mention MMORPGs, they'll think of WoW... and if you specifically ask about MMORPGs that are not WoW, everquest will probably be the one that is most widely recognized, but it wouldn't come anywhere near).

and not only do you want to make an MMO (which as noted, is not easy if you want to make an actual good one), you want to make an MMO that encompasses just about everything you could possibly imagine... balancing that (because unlike a pen and paper RPG, an MMO does in fact pretty much need to be balanced) would be a nearly impossible task. it would be cool if the idea could work, but i just can't imagine any way to make it happen. not even with massive resources available, which it wouldn't have.

[McHowl]

RE: To Forar and Shark_Force

Sorry to read that you both think that;
For the rest of you out there that I've heard from who think along the lines that I do, like I said-hit me up and lets get to work on it

[Forar]

@Shark_Force: *pours one out for City of Heroes*

It wasn't in WoW's league, but it was fun enough, Task Forces were crazy, and it had both wonderfully diverse powers and an absurdly good character generator.

[Rallan]

I can't realistically see it happening. Rifts is an obscure brand with a tiny fan base and very little recognition, so why would an MMO developer want to pay cashmoney to use the brand when they could just make up their own magitech mashup setting?

[Sureshot]

I can't realistically see it happening. Rifts is an obscure brand with a tiny fan base and very little recognition, so why would an MMO developer want to pay cashmoney to use the brand when they could just make up their own magitech mashup setting?

I think you would be surprised imo. Rifts is the rpg that many have played at one time or another. With many after having tried it also moved on to other rpgs. Rifts is the classic "love the setting hate the rules" kind of thing. Why so you think Savage rifts Kickstarter did so well. Many like the flavor and fluff. They just don't want to deal with the mechanics or have someone else convert them to another rpg.

[Shark_Force]

I think a well-done rifts MMO could potentially work, I just think people underestimate the amount of work that goes into making a good MMO, and the amount of investment that would be required to make a rifts MMO feel like rifts. the pen and paper game can afford to be balanced by a living, thinking GM who designs a game to be played by a specific group. an MMO could not afford that.

[jaymz]

Can it be done? Sure IF you have millions to sink into it along with the years (yes years) of development time it will take. The cost cannot be justified however for the likely projected return.

As Shark has said, games like this do not get churned out in a few months nor are they easy.

Rifts would be better served by a platform game than an MMO if anything. Maybe a Call of duty like game where you are a trooper, juicer, or borg?

Or maybe a Final Fantasy like game? Or maybe a Deus Ex like game?

[Forar]

A single player narrative RPG experience is also something more easily controlled. Making it an MMO involves not just piles of content, but adjusting that content with an expectation of multiple players.

Rifts already did a video game, and I believe I recall hearing it was reasonably well received, even if the platform chosen was... unfortunate. A single player RPG leading a plucky band against CS forces and Demons in the vein of Shadowrun: Returns, or an app sized project, I could see that being done in a reasonable period of time and reaching the fan base cost effectively.

There was a period when *everything* was getting the MMO treatment, at least allegedly. Stargate! Firefly! If it was a Sci-Fi or Fantasy series it probably had at least a pre-Alpha treatment being worked up somewhere.

Those days are gone. WoW eats larger competition for breakfast every year. The number of active, successful MMOs isn't just a mere handful, but we've lost more than we've retained (pours another one out for Hellgate: London), and stepping onto that pitch is to just ask for a merciless whipping unless the team involved is ready to play ball in the big leagues.

I could see another Rifts video game. I simply think that an MMO is one of the worst applications of that.

[Library Ogre]

And, of course, hurting the possibility of a Rifts MMO is the Rift MMO that already exists.

[Forar]

I don't see how that's hurting Palladium Rifts.

I believe Rift is a purely fantasy setting. The notion of 'tears/portals in space leading to crazy stuff' is all over the place (or we'd better lay into all those Stargate series).

Obviously they'd just name it Rifts: Adventures in Time and Space or whatever if they really wanted to completely distinguish themselves, but while there's magic and fantasy stuff, Rifts always struck me as a sci-fi post/apoc setting more than a fantasy one.

It's not like there'd be a lot of confusion. "Do you want Rift that came out 2011, or Rifts that came out in 2031?"

[palladiumjunkie]

I don't see how that's hurting Palladium Rifts.

I believe Rift is a purely fantasy setting. The notion of 'tears/portals in space leading to crazy stuff' is all over the place (or we'd better lay into all those Stargate series).

Obviously they'd just name it Rifts: Adventures in Time and Space or whatever if they really wanted to completely distinguish themselves, but while there's magic and fantasy stuff, Rifts always struck me as a sci-fi post/apoc setting more than a fantasy one.

It's not like there'd be a lot of confusion. "Do you want Rift that came out 2011, or Rifts that came out in 2031?"

I believe that what Mark might be referring to is the fact that Palladium had sued the company that made Rift, because of the name, back in 2010, or 2011. Trion hit back hard, and Palladium ended up settling out of court, or something like that. I don't remember many of the details, and of course neither company was exactly sharing information, either. I do know that Trion hit back hard, challenging Palladium's rights to the Rifts trademark, as it related to computer games. In the end, they kept the Rift name, so the best guess is that they gave some money to Palladium to not pursue it any further. As for Palladium having future rights to use the Rifts name, as it pertains to video games, I don't know what the outcome of that was.

Keep in mind, this is a high level view of what we saw happening at the time. There are some blogs out there still that were tracking what was going on, referencing the actual documents, and such. You could probably google it, if you were interested in knowing more.

-Chris

[cyber-yukongil v2.5]

...could you imagine if Palladium did have a Rifts MMO and then Trion sued them and won for IP theft...*ques Alanis Morrisette*

[Marcus]

...could you imagine if Palladium did have a Rifts MMO and then Trion sued them and won for IP theft...*ques Alanis Morrisette*

Nope.

[Rallan]

I don't see how that's hurting Palladium Rifts.

I believe Rift is a purely fantasy setting. The notion of 'tears/portals in space leading to crazy stuff' is all over the place (or we'd better lay into all those Stargate series).

Obviously they'd just name it Rifts: Adventures in Time and Space or whatever if they really wanted to completely distinguish themselves, but while there's magic and fantasy stuff, Rifts always struck me as a sci-fi post/apoc setting more than a fantasy one.

It's not like there'd be a lot of confusion. "Do you want Rift that came out 2011, or Rifts that came out in 2031?"

What it basically means is that a Rifts MMO almost definitely wouldn't be allowed to be called Rifts, because trademarks are a thing and it would be a slam dunk case for Trion to argue that a second MMO with almost exactly the same name as their existing product is a terrible idea.

And as other folks have mentioned, Palladium tried to go after Trion for trademark stuff in the past and got smacked down for it, so Trion's lawyers wouldn't be backwards about coming forwards if something with a name like Rifts Online or whatever came out.

[Forar]

This also assumes that Rift is still even out when this theoretical Palladium MMO arrived.

MMO development is a loooooong term project, as I'm sure we can all imagine. Bigger games have come and gone in the time frame we'd be talking about here.

Worrying that the name would be a problem isn't even on the same continent as the time and effort necessary to have a playable game in need of a name.

[RockJock]

Intellectual properties take awhile to go "poof", and the older game can always reissue, or add an expansion, or even put out a flyer to say are working on a sequel, or whatever.

I think a game would be great, but I also don't see a large scale MMORPG being a realistic start. If a movie ever saw the light of day sure, but my uneducated opinion is that you need a significant pile of resources thrown at this to make it work. Could a mobile/facebook type game be a clone with a Rifts skin? Yes. Take Avenger Alliance with a Rifts feel. I just don't see it happening without a lot of resources.

[J_cobbers]

I think they'd be better off with a more linear style computer RPG more like a old school Final Fantasy games (thinking like FF6 or 7) or some of the various DnD games (Icewind Dale / Neverwinter Nights series). I know we saw the Promise of Power game back in the day but very few people got the N-gage or were familiar enough with it. The other thing that might be easier and fun could be a RTS with different factions: CS, Tolkeen, FoM, Free Quebec, Archie III/Republicans/Shemarians, Atlantis, Vampire Kingdom, Manistique/NG/Ishpeming, NGR, Gargoyle/Broadkill Empire as possible sides. Each could have their own story campaign to play through and then multiplayer could be pretty epic.

[parkhyun]

If you aren't familiar with the Mount & Blade games (and if you aren't, I strongly recommend Warband), check it out. It's a sandbox medieval-battle simulator single-player campaign with multi-player skirmishes.

What makes this a great model for Rifts is that it's really designed for first-person small-group leadership roleplaying, and has good - no, incredible - arcade action. It's also easily modable. It is not fancy and not prententious, but it offers character development, emerging storylines and wide-open class specialization.

If Rifts could be played as a computer game, that's how I'd want to do it.