Shapeshifting Dreadnoughts

[Vrykolas2k]

Is a book going to cover these at any time (mentioned in the original Phase World book but never statted out).

[drewkitty ~..~]

What page are they mentioned on?

[eliakon]

Is a book going to cover these at any time (mentioned in the original Phase World book but never statted out).

Considering we have had both a Fleets book and the book on Phase World?
I would not be holding my breath for anything on them anytime soon.

[Alrik Vas]

Use stats for the SDF-1. ...what? it's a shapeshifting dreadnought...

[Jefffar]

Use stats for the SDF-1. ...what? it's a shapeshifting dreadnought...

I've long held that the passage is a reference to Robotech.

[glitterboy2098]

phase world gives hooks to use Aliens Unlimited and Mechanoids, so why not robotech?

[drewkitty ~..~]

phase world gives hooks to use Aliens Unlimited and Mechanoids, so why not robotech?

The SDF-1 is one of the trophies on display on atlantis.

*cough cough* would some one say where the text is?

[Vrykolas2k]

Use stats for the SDF-1. ...what? it's a shapeshifting dreadnought...

Then change everything to phase-tech, add some MDC and shields, and so on... ya, I've already spent a couple of hours making my own version, was hoping there'd be something official eventually.

[ShadowLogan]

Is a book going to cover these at any time (mentioned in the original Phase World book but never statted out).

Can you cite the page please?

Shapeshifting hardware in Phaseworld is known on the smaller scale:
-Kittani (DB2) Space Fighter
-Naruni Ovid (DB3), but it's origins are unkown (did Naruni acquire the design or is it an original)
-a Machine Person (solo or group) might be able to pull it off using their natural powers, it is also possible their creators could possibly have the hardware (if they still existed but its been over 3000years IIRC)
-the Invaders (DB3) and their energy hardware might be considered shape shifting (hidden feature having the solid energy reconfigure for new uses)
-other shape shifter races?

So if someone is to have the option of shape shifting warships, I would suspect it would be one of these in the setting or a new faction not covered yet. Unless the shape shifting is more limited.

Robotech only really has ONE starship known to shapeshift, Macross2 is another matter, but even there it isn't very common. It is possible that is the source though as RT/M2 is brought up in the back of the book for crossovers with other lines.

[glitterboy2098]

a few thoughts on what 'shapeshifting' might include.. while the macross derived "ship to giant robot" is a possibility, there are a few others.

like for example, a ship that has a 'combat mode'. which could mean things like radiators, wings, and other external features being retracted into the armored hull to give fewer vulnerable locations to target, or the weapons and other combat features being in sub-hull sections that extend on wings and struts to give them better separation and fields of fire.

another option might be illusion systems (tech or magic) that allow a single ship to look like several different types, liek the holographic camouflaged romulan ship seen in season 4 of Enterprise, which used holograms and adaptable systems to mimmick the look and sensor profile of ships from several different races.

[ShadowLogan]

But would that be enough to qualify as "shape shifting". I do think when it comes to "shapeshifting" Palladium at the editorial level (at least) has a defined idea on what they consider shapeshifting/transformable. I don't think the "combat mode" where things retract or deploy is what they think of given it doesn't seem like the Merbot PA, SA2's flying turtle 'bot, or even PW's "Battleram" 'bot (in flight mode) are considered shape shifters in their descriptions.

[Alrik Vas]

I think the closest thing to a dreadnought that you mentioned there was the Battleram, ShadowLogan.

I don't think transforming power armor or 'bots under 40ft would count. I think they're referring to large spaceships with large caliber.

[ShadowLogan]

I think the closest thing to a dreadnought that you mentioned there was the Battleram, ShadowLogan.

I don't think transforming power armor or 'bots under 40ft would count. I think they're referring to large spaceships with large caliber.

I agree. However I was looking at the "shapeshifting" aspect and not the "dreadnought" aspect from an editorial/writer use.

When something is a shapeshifter they seem to call it such (or transformable in Rifts), but "poses" like the Merbot PA and Battleram Bot assume, and simple retraction like the SA2 flying turtle bot don't seem to qualify. So gb2098's suggestion that the shapeshifting dreadnoughts could be simple retractable/extendible does not seem to fit with how the writer/editors are known to use the word IMHO.

[RockJock]

Phaseworld page 162 mentioned the "shape-shifting dreadnoughts that could destroy entire fleets".

[glitterboy2098]

just checked.. under the star ghost fluff. describing how the phase tech systems are only used on fighter and frigate sized ships, but there are ancient records of bigger ships.

interesting. they're implied to be phasetech in origins.

also, i would love to see the 'frigate sized' phase tech ships mentioned there. aside from the star ghost itself (which is halfway between a fighter and a frigate by size), and the TGE's variant beserker class ship, we don't really have any more phasetech ships.

[say652]

If the SDF-1 is considered the Gold standard perhaps homebrew creations are in order.

[ShadowLogan]

Phaseworld page 162 mentioned the "shape-shifting dreadnoughts that could destroy entire fleets".

Well the text goes:
"Some very old records mention shape-shifting dreadnoughts that could destroy entire fleets. Most people disregard those tales while hoping privately that they never have a chance to discover otherwise."

Given that this is part of the Star Ghost-Class Fighter fluff text. It suggest that Phase Tech is involved. Which could be achieved in a few ways:
-1. Parts are phase in-out as needed, essentially shape shifting. (maybe based on D-Phase or D-Shift Ghost or Dimensional Leap?)
-2. Parts are subject to Phase Power(s) that distort the ship's structure in multiple ways simultaneously causing it to "shape-shift" as parts "expand" or "contract" like the D-Shift Distance power or Phase Warp: Confuse.
-3. There are aspects of Phase Technology/powers not yet explored

Then again these are said to be very old records, so that would explain why they aren't in the books, the shape-shifting dreadnoughts aren't around any more and no one has discovered one (or lived to tell about it?).

also, i would love to see the 'frigate sized' phase tech ships mentioned there. aside from the star ghost itself (which is halfway between a fighter and a frigate by size), and the TGE's variant beserker class ship, we don't really have any more phasetech ships.

Is it possible that there wouldn't be much difference between what the Star Ghosts can do in practice (Phase Fields, Phase-Jump System, and trading a few gun emplacements for phase cannons) and regular fighters, only at the Frigate scale?

It might also mean that Frigates are to expensive for the open market or the Prometheans haven't made them available to the market. A Star Ghost Fighter runs 280million credits, you can buy at least x4 regular fighters for that generally (in DB2). If the "regular fighter" vs "phase equipped fighter" cost ratio holds to Frigates (or goes higher) that might explain their absence, the market just can not support them. It is interesting though, but I don't think any Phaseworld book post DB2 builds on Phase Powers or Tech examples AFAIK/IIRC.

[ShadowLogan]

I think the closest thing to a dreadnought that you mentioned there was the Battleram, ShadowLogan.

I don't think transforming power armor or 'bots under 40ft would count. I think they're referring to large spaceships with large caliber.

I agree. However I was looking at the "shapeshifting" aspect and not the "dreadnought" aspect from an editorial/writer use.

When something is a shapeshifter they seem to call it such (or transformable in Rifts), but "poses" like the Merbot PA and Battleram Bot assume, and simple retraction like the SA2 flying turtle bot don't seem to qualify. So gb2098's suggestion that the shapeshifting dreadnoughts could be simple retractable/extendible does not seem to fit with how the writer/editors are known to use the word IMHO.

As an example in Fot3G on pg82-84 for the TGE Etherium Destroyer (prototype) they have retractable (and folding) features mentioned, but at no time do they mention it is considered transformable or a shapeshifter.

[Alrik Vas]

Can it punch things? If not, I don't count it.

[Axelmania]

Examples of smaller shapeshifters would be Naruni's Ovoid or the Kittani... whatever it was. I bet both could make large transforming bots if they wanted to, but it probably wouldn't be profitable.

As it is I don't really understand the point of the SDF turning humanoid.

[Alrik Vas]

As it is I don't really understand the point of the SDF turning humanoid.

In the show, it was due to a mishap. When they used the fold drive they "vanished" (there is a lot of other reason and theory on this, but whatever) and in so going poof, the power conduits that ran energy from the Reflex furnace to the capacitors for the main gun were no longer connected. Their arguably only truly effective weapon against the enemy was nixed. Though the ship's design allowed them to essentially exchange one conduit for another, but the format of the SDF-1 had to change to bring them together, and the so-called modular transformation was born, as it would relink the furnace to the gun.

Though, really, it was the 80's and transformation fever was all over japan at the time.

Arguably as well, you could point to the ship having a better multi-directional combat profile while transformed, as they never showed the other large anti-warship weapons as having much range of movement.

[glitterboy2098]

And to be honest the humanoid look in setting is meant to be coincidental, a side effect of how the various modules shifted to bring the gun and powerplant together. Later macros setting ships are the 'why bother' camp though, since they not only have more humanoid form but also greater articulation

Robotech thankfully have avoided that in later vessels, leaving the SDF1's transformation just a one off field expedient

[Alrik Vas]

Robotech thankfully have avoided that in later vessels, leaving the SDF1's transformation just a one off field expedient

I have to disagree with the thankfully part, i believe transforming ships are cooler than non-transforming ships.

Though, I have to say, I'm out on a lot of the ship weapon visual effects of the later Macross series. I miss my big orange/red beam of doom.

[Axelmania]

it was due to a mishap. When they used the fold drive they "vanished" (there is a lot of other reason and theory on this, but whatever) and in so going poof, the power conduits that ran energy from the Reflex furnace to the capacitors for the main gun were no longer connected. Their arguably only truly effective weapon against the enemy was nixed. Though the ship's design allowed them to essentially exchange one conduit for another, but the format of the SDF-1 had to change to bring them together, and the so-called modular transformation was born, as it would relink the furnace to the gun.

the humanoid look in setting is meant to be coincidental, a side effect of how the various modules shifted to bring the gun and powerplant together.

For those who have seen the original SDF Macross in Japanese (subs) or the Robotech season 1 dubbing, is there any difference in the explanations for the altered form? I'm curious what episode gives it and which character(s?) explain it.

[camk4evr]

It's been awhile since I've watched Robotech but I believe so.

In Macross, the fold drive disappeared it took with it more power conduits and other materials than they could replace so they took advantage of the modular nature of the ship and shifted the sections around effectively bringing the ships powerplant closer to the Super-Dimension Cannon so they could fire it.

[Nightmask]

It's been awhile since I've watched Robotech but I believe so.

In Macross, the fold drive disappeared it took with it more power conduits and other materials than they could replace so they took advantage of the modular nature of the ship and shifted the sections around effectively bringing the ships powerplant closer to the Super-Dimension Cannon so they could fire it.

I always found it baffling in the RPG where they refer to the transformation of the SDF-1 as being because 'well they figured it was supposed to do that and built it that way' rather than being the only way to compensate for the battle damage caused by the fold event misfire. They must have REALLY skimmed the show or gone on what someone else said to get that so wrong.

[glitterboy2098]

it occurs to me it might not be a robotech reference after all..

rather Gunbuster
where to beat a massive invasion of bizzare aliens, humanity (for some reason) built a battleship size transforming multipart giant robot able to throw absurdly powerful firepower around.

[Alrik Vas]

it occurs to me it might not be a robotech reference after all..

rather Gunbuster
where to beat a massive invasion of bizzare aliens, humanity (for some reason) built a battleship size transforming multipart giant robot able to throw absurdly powerful firepower around.

absurdly? WHAT? you mean awesomely, right?

And it was just guarding the black-hole bomb until it could be set off, it didn't win the war by itself.

[Blue_Lion]

Is a book going to cover these at any time (mentioned in the original Phase World book but never statted out).

Can you cite the page please?

Shapeshifting hardware in Phaseworld is known on the smaller scale:
-Kittani (DB2) Space Fighter
-Naruni Ovid (DB3), but it's origins are unkown (did Naruni acquire the design or is it an original)
-a Machine Person (solo or group) might be able to pull it off using their natural powers, it is also possible their creators could possibly have the hardware (if they still existed but its been over 3000years IIRC)
-the Invaders (DB3) and their energy hardware might be considered shape shifting (hidden feature having the solid energy reconfigure for new uses)
-other shape shifter races?

So if someone is to have the option of shape shifting warships, I would suspect it would be one of these in the setting or a new faction not covered yet. Unless the shape shifting is more limited.

Robotech only really has ONE starship known to shapeshift, Macross2 is another matter, but even there it isn't very common. It is possible that is the source though as RT/M2 is brought up in the back of the book for crossovers with other lines.

The oni have a shape shifting ship. Changes between 3 different ships.

[Blue_Lion]

it occurs to me it might not be a robotech reference after all..

rather Gunbuster
where to beat a massive invasion of bizzare aliens, humanity (for some reason) built a battleship size transforming multipart giant robot able to throw absurdly powerful firepower around.

No NO NO it is a reference to Spaceball one turning into a giant maid to suck the all the air off a planet.

(we may never know but it could be a reference to something that got cut.

[ShadowLogan]

Phaseworld page 162 mentioned the "shape-shifting dreadnoughts that could destroy entire fleets".

If anyone's interested there is another bit on the matter I found in Fot3G recently on pg46 in the Dominator's Star Fortress entry...

"The Lay also makes mention of 'fleets of shape-shifting dreadnoughts,' leading many to presume that the aforementioned Premethai are, in fact, the Prometheans of Phase World."

So it appears that these shape-shifting vessels are Elder Race (in general or just the Promethans), which is further supported by the text in DB2 (pg162 in the Star Ghost entry: "Some very old records mention shape-shifting dreadnoughts that could destroy entire fleets. Most people disregard those tales while hoping privately that they never have a chance to discover otherwise.".)