Savage Topics on the PMB

Library Ogre · Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:32 pm

If folks have mechanical questions or creations for Savage Rifts, where should they put them on the PMB? The Rifts section? Other Games? Some new, as-yet-uncreated Savage Rifts board?

Fell · Unread post by **Fell** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:41 pm

B U M P

I would like to see a spot made here at PB forums also for the Savage Rifts stuff.

I vote: Some new, as-yet-uncreated Savage Rifts board.

kaid · Unread post by **kaid** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:34 pm

Honestly I would almost recommend keeping them in the main rifts section. The upside of that is get people interested in the new savage worlds stuff in forums to expose them to all the other rift stuff out there.

Daniel Stoker · Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:57 pm

I tend to think that a sub forum or something might make sense as it'll help make sure people realize it's a Savage World question and not a Rifts one and lead to arguments over systems.

Daniel Stoker

Natasha · Unread post by **Natasha** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:26 pm

hi Daniel. You're new here.

blackwingedheaven · Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:40 pm

Mark Hall wrote:If folks have mechanical questions or creations for Savage Rifts, where should they put them on the PMB? The Rifts section? Other Games? Some new, as-yet-uncreated Savage Rifts board?

There is a main thread for the Player's Guide in the Rifts section currently, and there are the Pinnacle forums as well.

Glistam · Unread post by **Glistam** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:19 am

I think the "no conversion" policy needs a revision too, while they're at it.

Since Savage Rifts is currently only available to the Kickstarter supporters, maybe a private forum like the Sound Off forum would be the more appropriate option? Then once the books are released for sale the forum could be opened up to all.

blackwingedheaven · Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:17 pm

Glistam wrote:I think the "no conversion" policy needs a revision too, while they're at it.

That's needed a revision for decades.

Natasha · Unread post by **Natasha** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:53 pm

Glistam wrote:I think the "no conversion" policy needs a revision too, while they're at it.

Since Savage Rifts is currently only available to the Kickstarter supporters, maybe a private forum like the Sound Off forum would be the more appropriate option? Then once the books are released for sale the forum could be opened up to all.

Maybe. But one good way to get someone interested in buying the game is to let them read about it. As is it, I already have a Savage Rifts game so I don't need to buy one if I want to play Savage Rifts but I might be made to want to buy one.

Mack · Unread post by **Mack** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:17 pm

We've requested a new forum for Savage Rifts... Don't know what the hold up is.

Likewise, we requested guidance regarding the No Conversions policy. I believe that one is pending an answer from a lawyer.

Sorry for the delays.

blackwingedheaven · Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:08 am

Mack wrote:We've requested a new forum for Savage Rifts... Don't know what the hold up is.

Likewise, we requested guidance regarding the No Conversions policy. I believe that one is pending an answer from a lawyer.

Sorry for the delays.

Two decades of policy doesn't get reversed overnight. We can take a little delay. =)

Rallan · Unread post by **Rallan** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:39 pm

Mack wrote:We've requested a new forum for Savage Rifts... Don't know what the hold up is.

Likewise, we requested guidance regarding the No Conversions policy. I believe that one is pending an answer from a lawyer.

Sorry for the delays.

Wait, I...

No, nothing good can come from asking why the board admins need permission to open a subforum, or you need to get legal advice about whether we can talk rules conversions between the rules Palladium uses and the rules a licensed Savage Worlds spinoff of one of Palladium's games uses. That way madness lies.

Sureshot · Unread post by **Sureshot** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:22 pm

Agreed and seconded with Rallan. I brought up the topic of conversions twice. Long before the SW Rifts were released. As usual looks like it's being looked into after the fact.

Library Ogre · Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:06 am

While we're at "getting new boards", what about the podcast boards that haven't had a post in two years? Or the ten year old "Help Save Palladium Books" forum that's been locked for two years? Or the board, with no posts in a year, to talk about a game for a platform discontinued eleven years ago?

Tiree · Unread post by **Tiree** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:52 pm

Mark Hall wrote:While we're at "getting new boards", what about the podcast boards that haven't had a post in two years? Or the ten year old "Help Save Palladium Books" forum that's been locked for two years? Or the board, with no posts in a year, to talk about a game for a platform discontinued eleven years ago?

Don't knock the "Help Save Palladium Books" locked forum. It took us years just to get it locked!

Mack · Unread post by **Mack** » Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:06 pm

It's not my sandbox. I just play in it.

palladiumjunkie · Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:26 pm

Tiree wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:While we're at "getting new boards", what about the podcast boards that haven't had a post in two years? Or the ten year old "Help Save Palladium Books" forum that's been locked for two years? Or the board, with no posts in a year, to talk about a game for a platform discontinued eleven years ago?

Don't knock the "Help Save Palladium Books" locked forum. It took us years just to get it locked!

Exactly what I was going to say.

On the topic at hand, though, this was in tonight's update...

PALLADIUM BOOKS® WEEKLY UPDATE - 2016-07-08 wrote:UPDATE: Savage Rifts® for Savage Worlds

Excitement continues to run high for Savage Rifts® from Pinnacle Entertainment for the Savage Worlds game system. Palladium is working with Pinnacle to allow fans to create conversions and fan materials on the Palladium website and elsewhere. The official policy will be coming soon.

Marcus · Unread post by **Marcus** » Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:46 pm

palladiumjunkie wrote:
Tiree wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:While we're at "getting new boards", what about the podcast boards that haven't had a post in two years? Or the ten year old "Help Save Palladium Books" forum that's been locked for two years? Or the board, with no posts in a year, to talk about a game for a platform discontinued eleven years ago?

Don't knock the "Help Save Palladium Books" locked forum. It took us years just to get it locked!

Exactly what I was going to say.

On the topic at hand, though, this was in tonight's update...

PALLADIUM BOOKS® WEEKLY UPDATE - 2016-07-08 wrote:UPDATE: Savage Rifts® for Savage Worlds

Excitement continues to run high for Savage Rifts® from Pinnacle Entertainment for the Savage Worlds game system. Palladium is working with Pinnacle to allow fans to create conversions and fan materials on the Palladium website and elsewhere. The official policy will be coming soon.

Coming soon. How much I dread the use of these two simple words by PB.

Rallan · Unread post by **Rallan** » Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:18 am

"Working to allow?" As if fans doing fan conversions for their favorite RPGs some monumental and unprecedented thing that nobody in the history of RPG fandom has ever dared to dream of before.

Josh Hilden · Unread post by **Josh Hilden** » Sat Jul 09, 2016 3:22 pm

There is nothing wrong or illegal with fan conversions as long as there's not profit involved.

blackwingedheaven · Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:16 pm

Josh Hilden wrote:There is nothing wrong or illegal with fan conversions as long as there's not profit involved.

Nothing wrong with? I agree.

Nothing illegal? Well... That's not quite true.

I'm a librarian, and I work with copyright issues a lot. One of the things we have to remind people about is that profit doesn't enter into it. Intellectual property can be infringed without a profit being turned by the person doing the infringing, and indeed this happens all the time. Technically, any IP holder has the right to request that outside parties don't use their material in situations that haven't been specifically licensed. In practice, most game companies have permitted it, since it builds healthier communities and acts as free advertising. Palladium is notable (though not unique) in being a company that doesn't permit it.

On the other hand, it was ruled a while back that "rules systems" don't count as intellectual property and can't be copyrighted, only setting material, fiction, and other similar things. This directly led to the boom of the so-called Old School Revolution, where companies would make "retro-clones" of older versions of D&D and release them with new fluff and settings. Technically, you could do the same thing with Palladium's house system, but it probably doesn't have a market for a retro-clone considering it's still being actively published in a form that hasn't really changed in 25+ years.

Short version: It doesn't matter if you're making money from it or not. If the IP holder says "no conversions," then you're technically infringing. (However, let me also say that actual court cases involved in non-profit infringing almost never result in punitive damages or other monetary compensation equivalent to the asked-for damages, so it's not worth it for a company as small as 99% of gaming companies.)

Todd Yoho · Unread post by **Todd Yoho** » Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:33 pm

The Palladium system isn't retro-cloneable; it's just retro.

Rallan · Unread post by **Rallan** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:44 pm

Todd Yoho wrote:The Palladium system isn't retro-cloneable; it's just retro.

Yeah I mean what significant changes has the Palladium system even had? They gave characters SDC as well as hit points, they made spellcasting run on PPE, and...

Shark_Force · Unread post by **Shark_Force** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:57 pm

Rallan wrote:
Todd Yoho wrote:The Palladium system isn't retro-cloneable; it's just retro.

Yeah I mean what significant changes has the Palladium system even had? They gave characters SDC as well as hit points, they made spellcasting run on PPE, and...

perception. they added perception.

and two attacks for living, which iirc they argue was always a thing.

i'm sure there are a few other things if we take the time to think them up.

blackwingedheaven · Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:57 am

Shark_Force wrote:
Rallan wrote:
Todd Yoho wrote:The Palladium system isn't retro-cloneable; it's just retro.

Yeah I mean what significant changes has the Palladium system even had? They gave characters SDC as well as hit points, they made spellcasting run on PPE, and...

perception. they added perception.

and two attacks for living, which iirc they argue was always a thing.

i'm sure there are a few other things if we take the time to think them up.

Pretty well glacial change by any standard in the industry. In that same time, we've had five editions of AD&D, seven editions of Call of Cthulhu, and six editions of RuneQuest--and those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head that were around when Palladium started.

Tiree · Unread post by **Tiree** » Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:26 am

blackwingedheaven wrote:
Shark_Force wrote:
Rallan wrote:
Todd Yoho wrote:The Palladium system isn't retro-cloneable; it's just retro.

Yeah I mean what significant changes has the Palladium system even had? They gave characters SDC as well as hit points, they made spellcasting run on PPE, and...

perception. they added perception.

and two attacks for living, which iirc they argue was always a thing.

i'm sure there are a few other things if we take the time to think them up.

Pretty well glacial change by any standard in the industry. In that same time, we've had five editions of AD&D, seven editions of Call of Cthulhu, and six editions of RuneQuest--and those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head that were around when Palladium started.

I think we are on 6 or 7 Editions of Star Wars, between 3 different game companies.

Killer Cyborg · Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:18 pm

Mack wrote:It's not my sandbox. I just play in it.

Forar · Unread post by **Forar** » Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:21 pm

I... shouldn't this have been something sorted out before the campaign went live? During those 6 years of negotiations?

Damian Magecraft · Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:11 pm

Forar wrote:I... shouldn't this have been something sorted out before the campaign went live? During those 6 years of negotiations?

Yeah... how dare they over look this one thing among the hundreds of legalities involved in bringing Rifts to another system officially... [/sarcasm]

Rallan · Unread post by **Rallan** » Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:48 pm

Forar wrote:I... shouldn't this have been something sorted out before the campaign went live? During those 6 years of negotiations?

More realistically, shouldn't this be something that doesn't even need sorting out in the first place? Nobody else has to run off and get legal advice about whether to let RPG fans post fan conversions or original material on RPG forums.

Damian Magecraft · Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:57 pm

Rallan wrote:
Forar wrote:I... shouldn't this have been something sorted out before the campaign went live? During those 6 years of negotiations?

More realistically, shouldn't this be something that doesn't even need sorting out in the first place? Nobody else has to run off and get legal advice about whether to let RPG fans post fan conversions or original material on RPG forums.

given the fact that PEG has a similar (if slightly less stringent) policy...
no.

Shawn Merrow · Unread post by **Shawn Merrow** » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:37 pm

Here is a link to the answer Pinnacle posted last year.

Savage World Rifts and Conversions

ScottBernard · Unread post by **ScottBernard** » Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:28 am

Damian Magecraft wrote:
Forar wrote:I... shouldn't this have been something sorted out before the campaign went live? During those 6 years of negotiations?

Yeah... how dare they over look this one thing among the hundreds of legalities involved in bringing Rifts to another system officially... [/sarcasm]

And what was that rudeness in aid of?

Forar · Unread post by **Forar** » Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:23 pm

ScottBernard wrote:
Damian Magecraft wrote:
Forar wrote:I... shouldn't this have been something sorted out before the campaign went live? During those 6 years of negotiations?

Yeah... how dare they over look this one thing among the hundreds of legalities involved in bringing Rifts to another system officially... [/sarcasm]

And what was that rudeness in aid of?

The PB forums maintaining their reputation?

Truly, I have been told.

;-)

Damian Magecraft · Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:55 am

Forar wrote:
ScottBernard wrote:
Damian Magecraft wrote:
Forar wrote:I... shouldn't this have been something sorted out before the campaign went live? During those 6 years of negotiations?

Yeah... how dare they over look this one thing among the hundreds of legalities involved in bringing Rifts to another system officially... [/sarcasm]

And what was that rudeness in aid of?

The PB forums maintaining their reputation?

Truly, I have been told.

considering the comment was the opening salvo in yet another round of how even when PB does something the fans ask for they still can't do it right?
the sarcasm was warranted.

Forar · Unread post by **Forar** » Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:30 pm

As a point of order, they haven't done anything but say that it's being worked on.

RRT is also being worked on, and nearly 38 months later let me tell you how comforting it is to hear that something is 'being worked on'.

And poking fun aside, they are the ones who bought up how long it took. If this was a 6 week or 6 month turnaround, sure, things get lost in the shuffle.

Sureshot · Unread post by **Sureshot** » Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:34 pm

I agree with Forar. Them saying it's being worked on does not inspire much confidence. RTT has been being worked on for months and little to no progress on that. Until I actually see a policy on conversions. I'm going to assume that it will take months as well.

Unread post by **NMI** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:25 pm

In regards to Savage Rifts, I am waiting on feedback from Kevin. Once I have the ok, I will be putting together a disclaimer of sorts - what sort of conversions can/cannot be posted, questions, etc...

kaid · Unread post by **kaid** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:54 pm

One thing I hope will be allowed is there are some really nice character creator programs it would be nice if they are allowed to use the new batch of skills/templates. It is one big strength with savage worlds with the more generic way you do characters its a lot easier to have a character generator.

MurderCityDisciple · Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:43 pm

Is Savage Rifts out yet?

It looks frikken amazing. Full color...sweet character sheets...modern system. Gonna buy it for sure.

palladiumjunkie · Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:50 pm

MurderCityDisciple wrote:Is Savage Rifts out yet?

It looks frikken amazing. Full color...sweet character sheets...modern system. Gonna buy it for sure.

The physical books won't start shipping to backers until around December, and probably be up for pre-order within the next few months. But, the PDFs of the core books have been sent to backers, and they actually went up for sale on DrivethruRPG.com today. Here are the links:

Savage Rifts: The Tomorrow Legion Player's Guide
Savage Rifts: Game Master's Handbook
Savage Rifts: Savage Foes of North America

-Chris

MurderCityDisciple · Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:21 pm

3 books...all out at once?

Pdf's?

In color?

Not years late?

No way dude...

palladiumjunkie · Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:32 pm

MurderCityDisciple wrote:3 books...all out at once?

Pdf's?

In color?

Not years late?

No way dude...

And... if you missed out on the Kickstarter, you can now pre-order from PEG's site. Looks like they are targeting January ship date for pre-orders.

Savage Rifts® Preorder Bundle

-Chris

MurderCityDisciple · Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:49 pm

palladiumjunkie wrote:
MurderCityDisciple wrote:3 books...all out at once?

Pdf's?

In color?

Not years late?

No way dude...

And... if you missed out on the Kickstarter, you can now pre-order from PEG's site. Looks like they are targeting January ship date for pre-orders.

Savage Rifts® Preorder Bundle

-Chris

Amazing stuff....

Makes what we're used to look amateurish.

Unread post by **NMI** » Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:56 pm

kaid wrote:One thing I hope will be allowed is there are some really nice character creator programs it would be nice if they are allowed to use the new batch of skills/templates. It is one big strength with savage worlds with the more generic way you do characters its a lot easier to have a character generator.

I am curious, other than Lone Wolf Development, who else has a Savage Worlds character generator? Does it allow customization by the user?

Steve Dubya · Unread post by **Steve Dubya** » Wed Jul 27, 2016 4:23 pm

NMI wrote:I am curious, other than Lone Wolf Development, who else has a Savage Worlds character generator? Does it allow customization by the user?

There are bunches of them, and that doesn't count the ones that have come out in the last three years.

Steve Dubya · Unread post by **Steve Dubya** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:22 pm

There's now basically an "official conversion document" for Savage Worlds to Rifts; has there been any further response as to how fans might address this?

Spinachcat · Unread post by **Spinachcat** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:08 pm

Anyone playing Savage Rifts?

Your thoughts?

blackwingedheaven · Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:41 pm

Spinachcat wrote:Anyone playing Savage Rifts?

Your thoughts?

Been running a campaign since the pdfs went to Kickstarter backers. It's been a hell of a lot of fun. It captures all of the gonzo enjoyment of the setting without having to do stuff like having one round of combat take two hours. I've had a couple of players leave for real-life reasons recently, so I've got two new players joining tomorrow. This will be their first real campaign, so I'm excited to see what they think of Rifts.

zyanitevp · Unread post by **zyanitevp** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:22 am

Steve President George W. Bush wrote:There's now basically an "official conversion document" for Savage Worlds to Rifts; has there been any further response as to how fans might address this?

We are waiting for an official reply.