More Immobilize Questions

[Veknironth]

Well, I seem to be obsessed with this spell but the more I think about it, there more bizarre questions arise.

So, previously we decided that it you place this spell in the front of a sailing ship, it will be affixed to the ship rather than the area in the air. It's a cone relative to the ship. So, if said sailing ship was running into something it didn't want to hit, could the cone be used as a bumper? For example, the Merchantman vessel Titanic is at sea and the captain notices it's about to hit a large frozen object. Could the on board wizard cast Immobilize on the prow of the vessel and have the Immobilize spell stop all motion? Would that spell absorb all of the energy of the ship so that no damage would be done to any part of the ship from the sudden stop? Would things aboard the ship be subject to whip lash (cargo in the hold slamming against a wall, people flying towards the front of the ship, etc.)

If it doesn't slow the ship, could you reverse the cone so that it winnows away from the ship you're on and creates a ram cone?

Is the cone solid or hollow? If it's upside down in the rain, will it fill with water, assuming it's hollow. If it's solid, would the rain stick to it until the rain is bouncing off of the other rain?

Bonus question. Can you stand inside a Globe of Daylight? Like how big is it? Can you have it around you and hide in plain sight?

-Vek
"I'm aware I'm over thinking this."

[kiralon]

With the immobilise spell these days I'd just have the spell fail to effect anything unless it is completely covered by the immobilise, but I would have rain or water dripping down over it once the first layer

I thought the globe of daylight was about basketball sized, and I wouldn't have it blind people unless they are blinded in normal daylight because its globe of daylight, not globe of sun.

[Veknironth]

Well, Kiralon, that's what I was thinking as well but then my devious mind came up with another exploit. If it only affects whatever is in it, could you place it on th eprow of a ship with the wide end of the cone on the ship and the narrow funneling out, thus creating an indestructible ram? The same would go for a battering ram. As a battering ram, it wouldn't have the mass, but it would protect against incoming arrows and such.

-Vek
"Immobilize = stop, battering ram = hammer time."

[Prysus]

Well, I seem to be obsessed with this spell but the more I think about it, there more bizarre questions arise.

So, previously we decided that it you place this spell in the front of a sailing ship, it will be affixed to the ship rather than the area in the air. It's a cone relative to the ship. So, if said sailing ship was running into something it didn't want to hit, could the cone be used as a bumper? For example, the Merchantman vessel Titanic is at sea and the captain notices it's about to hit a large frozen object. Could the on board wizard cast Immobilize on the prow of the vessel and have the Immobilize spell stop all motion? Would that spell absorb all of the energy of the ship so that no damage would be done to any part of the ship from the sudden stop? Would things aboard the ship be subject to whip lash (cargo in the hold slamming against a wall, people flying towards the front of the ship, etc.)

Greetings and Salutations. Everything outside of the cone would still be subject to the sudden stop, and the cone won't encompass the whole ship. The ship might be safe (if we count it as a whole object, and once it touches the cone the whole becomes immobile, though I'm not sure I'd consider something as large as the Titanic be considered one whole piece either). The spell seems to stop momentum (which is why arrows and people/creatures of flight will fall once its over, because their momentum/motion has stopped). People and cargo within the cone's influence would also stop, so they should be fine. Cargo and people NOT within the cone would be thrown around.

Note: I doubt there's any ruling that can fully protect this spell for those trying to apply it to such large scale. Even if I ruled that anything larger than the cone would be unaffected by the cone, the question then arises what happens to objects within. Do they get run over (probably not the best ruling)? Does it push the cone? If it pushes the cone then couldn't you just push everything stuck in it off a cliff if you had something big enough to push everything within off a cliff? Maybe the safest ruling would be anything too big for it instantly ends the spell (so cast wisely). But I'm trying to play within the rules of the actual post.

If it doesn't slow the ship, could you reverse the cone so that it winnows away from the ship you're on and creates a ram cone?

Once the ship becomes immobile, it's immobile and couldn't ram anything. I'm not sure how you ram something without momentum. Now, if the stance is, for some reason momentum continues (unless you're an arrow or a person or anything else), then you'd have a different issue. The moment you make contact with whatever you're ramming, it would also become immobile. While it's possible you would crash, the other object (as a whole) would also be under the effects of the spell (it had to touch the object to ram it). So both ships (or wall, or other item) would be under the protection of the spell.

Is the cone solid or hollow? If it's upside down in the rain, will it fill with water, assuming it's hollow. If it's solid, would the rain stick to it until the rain is bouncing off of the other rain?

It's solid, so to speak. Anything "entering or touching" the cone is halted. If you walked you'd be halted as soon as you touched it, you could still in theory teleport within the outer edge, but you'd still be frozen because you entered it. So if you're thinking if you can cast it around yourself and still act, the answer would also be no (since you'd still be included in "EVERYTHING within"). As for rain, you'd probably (at most) create a watery shell. Then rain would, eventually, just hit itself and drip off.

Bonus question. Can you stand inside a Globe of Daylight? Like how big is it? Can you have it around you and hide in plain sight?

Only if you can't see in daylight. So, for example, if you're standing outside my house in the middle of the street in daylight and I look out my window, I shouldn't have any problem seeing you (considering my window is facing the right direction, of course). Same holds true here. Now, if for some reason you're thinking the globe from the spell is the equivalent of the sun, and you're thinking about standing INSIDE THE SUN, I wouldn't recommend it. However, since the spell doesn't mention the globe burning everything it touches, I'm fairly sure that's NOT what it does. The spell does what it says, create daylight. If you're wondering if you can hide in plain sight in daylight, go outside on a bright and sunny day and try it. Test your results.

Okay, that should be all for now. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

[kiralon]

Well, Kiralon, that's what I was thinking as well but then my devious mind came up with another exploit. If it only affects whatever is in it, could you place it on th eprow of a ship with the wide end of the cone on the ship and the narrow funneling out, thus creating an indestructible ram? The same would go for a battering ram. As a battering ram, it wouldn't have the mass, but it would protect against incoming arrows and such.

-Vek
"Immobilize = stop, battering ram = hammer time."

I think Prysus covers it all but that is a pretty good idea in a way, except that I'm pretty sure the spell is a cone from the sky, but if it attaches to the ship a few castings of immobilise will protect the ship from arrows and siege weapons. Have a few little arms that go out from the ship to cast immobilise on and suddenly your ship has good protection from missile weapons.

[Veknironth]

Well, it would also make the ship ram proof. So if someone is trying to ram the ship you can cast immobilize and boom, it stops. If the sailors aboard aren't braced for the sudden stop, then they're going to continue to travel at however many knots until they hit something solid. Or, only a part of the ship is stopped and the rest of it is going to test the sheer strength or the compression strength of the material. The Immobilize spell becomes an immovable object into which the ship slams. It's a tricky spell when applied to large objects. What if you cast it and catch a dragon's tail? Is the entire thing immobilized? Can you shoot the parts of the dragon which aren't in the spell? I think the wording of anything touching the cone also becoming immobilized is the bad part.

-Vek
"Up next, Mystic Portal"

[kiralon]

I would only effect things that are within the scope of the spell, and to be exact the spell says it immobilises anyone who touches it and anything inside it, so I would rule it would have to be fully inside it for it to be immobilised, which rules out ships, but I could see immovable objects being made for a ship to run in to. So I wouldn't run a horse and cart into it either as it would be unhappy for the cart and occupants, Also anyone frozen in time would be impervious to all attacks until unfrozen.

[Veknironth]

Well, I'm reserructing this post to ask more questions about Immobilize. As you can see, the consensus is that Immobilize essentially only stops what's inside of it. That's a cleaner way to deal with it. I would also rule that touching the cone sort of draws you in rather than extenting around you. Now, however, I need to ponder what happens INSIDE of the cone.

If someone saves against the spell, they could be free of its effects before it expires. Since the spell is level 7, it's likely this situation will occur. So, what can that person do while inside the cone? Here are some considerations in a list form so people can easily cut and quote:

1. The free person attacks the people stuck inside. Can this person stab/bludgeon/cut people still under the effects of the spell, or are they protected by the magic? Or, could that person attack them but the effects wouldn't appear until after the spell elapses (or if they also saved but rolled higher on their d4?)?

2. The free person uses distance attacks from inside the cone. This would imply that the free person and all of his or her possessions are free inside. I'd rule that any attempt to throw something or use a disance weapon would have that missile stop in the air just as if it were used by someone outside of the spell.

3. The free person tries to use a psionic power. This would come in two forms. The first is the power creating an effect outside of the cone like a forcefield/pillar of fire/evil eye. The other is a spell that originates from the psion like mind bolt or fireball. It seems to me that the first case would work, but that anything the caster tries to make eminate from them would be caught in the cone. Now, the next question is would it dissipate, or sit there until the cone disspiates and then fly forth? The book only mentions missile weapons and flying creatures. That implies there is some mass effect (intentional) and that powers which might be pure energy could pass through the cone, or would be halted momentarily and then shoot forth.

4. Someone outside of the cone could cast a spell like a cloud around the cone. That would make people who are in the cone have to save against the new threat once the cone is gone. But would that effect the free person before everyone else, or would they be immune until the cone dissipates?

-Vek
"This spell is a mess."

[kiralon]

I'd just force those who save out of the cone of effect in a random direction, bad luck if they are hand cuffed to someone inside the cone.
Since you can see inside it energy comes out of it (It really should be pitch black) so ultra low mass energy attacks would go though it, and then not effect the user unless it was something like a wall of fire as it would still be going.
Another option to use, is the spell can only do what is mentioned in the description, no extrapolating allowed. Makes it really easy to understand what the spell can do, because generally if someone asks can this spell do blah blah blah, you can just say no.
A more amusing method to use is whenever they ask the for something unusual about a spell roll 1d6, 1-3 it works, 4-6 it doesn't. Roll every time that situation arises.

But I play inside is a timestop so nothing inside can be effected. Anything directed at occupants inside just waits until the timestop spell finishes because it's timestopped too, unless it has saving throws and it depends on the save. If you save you are forced out even if it is to your detriment.

And another effect I have added to annoying spells is concentration.
The caster has to actively concentrate on it for it to keep running, so no moving, dodging, parrying attacking, losing LOS. taking damage or even talking. Perfect condition for a couple of the other horrid spells like CoS and CoA.

[Veknironth]

Well, I can answer my own question a bit. For #1, the spell clearly states that anyone who saves can exit the cone but cannot affect anything inside. So, the answer to #1 is no.

Here are some other considerations.

5. How is the cone oriented? Does it drop down from the sky like Kiralon imagines, and rests on the ground like a dunce cap? Can it be oriented in any other way?

6. Does it have to rest on a surface? In my water example, would it sink? Can it be made up in the air? Could you drop it on people but have it 4 feet above ground, and then crawl under and stab the hell out of their legs?

7. If an inanimate object touches the cone is it also immobilized? Does that field extent to wrap around and protect any thing that touches it? Can you daisy chain that field by having a series of objects touching eachother and then the field?

-Vek
"Obssessed with this spell."

[kiralon]

Tall is an orientation for me.
6. I don't believe so, i imagine the caster picks a point and it just drops from there.
7. No, I'd play the field is the trigger for the effect, not the radius for the effect.

[drewkitty ~..~]

again...it would taking the player telling the GM what their char 'intends' for what the magic does......before casting it.

[kiralon]

again...it would taking the player telling the GM what their char 'intends' for what the magic does......before casting it.

+1

[Franko Tyrador]

again...it would taking the player telling the GM what their char 'intends' for what the magic does......before casting it.

+1

+1.75

[Veknironth]

Well, mere intention can't be it. I can't cast Immobilize and intend for it to teleport me somewhere. If we wait until game time and I'm just trying to do a bunch of stuff with the spell that isn't in the description then we waste time as the GM repeatedly says no. So, I try to address the vagueries of the description before that.

But, I have figured out some of my questions. If you're inside and save, you can move out of the cone, but you cannot harm anyone inside of it. However, you can use psionic abilities that do not affect anything inside of the cone. Alternatively, you could walk to the exterior of the cone as a mage, stick your head out of the cone, and cast a spell while the rest of you remains inside. Or the GM could rule that once ANY part of you is outside you are kicked out.

Regarding people touching it, anyone who does so is immobilized. The toucher will be enveloped in the same energy and wlll be immobilized. However, anyone touching that being who touched it will NOT be immobilized. They just cannot affect the immobilzed creature which is outside of the cone, just as you can't do anything to things inside of the cone.

There is nothing in the spell description about the orientation of the spell. I'd say it can be oriented any way the caster wants. As for being stuck to a surface, that isn't necessary. It can be in midair, or touching the ground. Otherwise, if it's necessary to be attached to the ground you have another set of questions about surfaces that count, like running water.

As for the use in naval combat, I'm still soliciting opinions.

-Vek
"I should go through every spell and find all of the vagueries."

[kiralon]

It would help,
And if you said you were 15 feet tall, would you think of something 15 ft up from the ground or 15ft sideways. If it was cast sideways it wouldn't be 40 ft tall, it would be 20 ft tall at one point, 15ft tall at another and 40ft long