Return of the masters 1998 edition

[Defender_X]

Just got the PDf of the book. The additional Earth mecha was always a fan favorite of mine, the Delta fighter and ZSB were always good additions, the logan and assault battloid weren't as nice, but then I never liked the logan. The new masters mecha were a joy, something less fragile than the original masters mecha, got some good mileage out of those. Now with the updated system, I'll be looking at what will be needed to update those to it. Without violating rules here, in short, some stats may go up, some may go down based on what the 2nd baseline for each of the new mecha will be.

[glitterboy2098]

honestly, the main change would be to rewrite the fluff of those mecha to fit into the new history, and replacing the powerplants with appropriate systems for 2nd ed, with the right endurance.

i would suggest:
Super Logan - give it fusion turbines with the same endurance as a standard 2nd Ed logan. probably would work best as either an abandoned competitor to the Ajax, or a less common Logan replacement the Ajax program superseded when the war hit.

Assault Battloid - Fusion turbine with the same endurance as a standard 2nd ed ASC battloid. would probably work best as an effort to develop a more capable battloid for the masters war, deployed too late. (frankly it predating the standard ASC stuff never made sense)

Super Alpha - probably should use the "Delta fighter" name. give it the same endurance as a 2nd ed Alpha, just increase the # of cells required to 24. probably best used as an 'assault fighter' program deployed near the end of the war with the regent (late 2030's early 2040's), that got overshadowed by the deployment of the Beta (which does the job better and was easier to upgrade Alpha fighter squadrons to use) and then Shadow technology. Shadow device equipped models probably would exist in small numbers as refits ala the VF/A-6ZX Maia Sterling flew at reflex point. (which was a VF/A-6Z refit to VF/A-6X standards, which is why it still had the -6Z head and the shoulder sensor box. backstory is officially that the UEEF refit older fighters to use shadow devices originally [to fight the last battle against the regent], and didn't develop a dedicated shadow fighter variant [the -6X] until that war was over and they could devote all their attention to reclaiming earth in 2042.)

The Striker battloid is kind of a difficult one to rework the backstory too.. the new canon does not have the UEEF distrusting their zent members (instead, they made them the core of the UEEF Marines!), and the ZSB is a bit too zentraedi to fit into the linage we see with the UEEF pods in the UEEF Marine sourcebook.. yet it does not fit well as a competitor to the Bioroid Interceptor. the best bet might be to make it a competitor to the Condor and give it the same powerplant as a Condor.

[Arnie100]

I still find it funny that Breaux forgot to mention that the Shadow Device was designed OFF-WORLD. So I scratched the Shadow Device from the Super Alpha. Though I did like the Super Logan.

[Defender_X]

Yeah, that was an oversight there with the Shadow device. For adapting it to the new canon, I'll place the adventer after 21st mars division gets wiped out and end around the same time as the battle of reflex point. The moon base...a smaller facility on the moon that if it was discovered the UEEF could afford to lose. For the rewrite of the fluff for the ZSB, I'll have it as a mecha that was too expensive to mass produce and drop the distrust thing.

[taalismn]

The SuperLogan and the Battloids were frankly my favorites of that lot, too. If the Logan was a cat, the SuperLogan was a puma.

[ShadowLogan]

Just got the PDf of the book. The additional Earth mecha was always a fan favorite of mine, the Delta fighter and ZSB were always good additions, the logan and assault battloid weren't as nice, but then I never liked the logan. The new masters mecha were a joy, something less fragile than the original masters mecha, got some good mileage out of those. Now with the updated system, I'll be looking at what will be needed to update those to it. Without violating rules here, in short, some stats may go up, some may go down based on what the 2nd baseline for each of the new mecha will be.

Never really like the Logan? The mecha had potentially the #1 or #2 most powerful VT gun in the 1E game when looking at Range/Damage/ROF/Payload together, the only guns more potent where BFGs on the heavy Destroids or units with multiple instances of a less powerful gun. The 1E nose gun bascially had the potential to pop a (fresh undamaged) Zentreadi Regult in each attack per melee (GU-11 could only do that x1 per melee, the VHT main cannon x2 per melee, and the Logan was x4 minimum), it out ranged most enemy guns (it out ranges the GU-11 and matches the VHT main cannon), had unlimited payload (no reloading/recharging). It's main weakness was its "light armor" compared to other full VFs.

Honestly the best course for updating them I think would to just redo the flavor text and make them IMUs (which is surprisingly easy to do with "RotM" and "SF" prototypes) from the existing material. Sure it requires a bit of reworking on the campaign module, but its probably easier than updating the various mecha.k

Assault Battloid - Fusion turbine with the same endurance as a standard 2nd ed ASC battloid. would probably work best as an effort to develop a more capable battloid for the masters war, deployed too late. (frankly it predating the standard ASC stuff never made sense)

Several ways to handle the AB:
-a late war development as you suggest.
-an example of "early" ASC designs that where found to be to "heavy" (similar to the CDC Unicorn PA mentions with regard to its grenade launcher)
-make it a non-ASC associated design (UEDF or UEEF)
-make it a joint-ASC-RDF/REF design which would explain the "hybrid" feel it has in terms of weaponry

The Striker battloid is kind of a difficult one to rework the backstory too.. the new canon does not have the UEEF distrusting their zent members (instead, they made them the core of the UEEF Marines!), and the ZSB is a bit too zentraedi to fit into the linage we see with the UEEF pods in the UEEF Marine sourcebook.. yet it does not fit well as a competitor to the Bioroid Interceptor. the best bet might be to make it a competitor to the Condor and give it the same powerplant as a Condor.

It really doesn't fit as a competitor to the nt-Condor though, the ZSB would fly rings around both it and the Bioroid Interceptor in 2E (it's 1E air speed tops out at Mach 3, nt-Condor and BI don't even breach Mach 1), and its weapon systems is more diverse with better endurance (more missiles, better/more gun endurance).

Trying to make it work is pretty difficult from a backstory perspective as you say, at least if you try to make as little change as possible by keeping it a Zentreadi design. Though there is precedent in canon for it being to costly to produce (VF-X-4, VR-041 ex), which the ZEB is noted as being in that particular club, so it could be a Bioroid Interceptor competitor that was not selected for that reason. One could also push for it to be a non-Zentreadi design, but still retain its Zentreadi influences as a post-1stWar design as a "super nt-battloid" attempt to reduce the need for costly VFs (but failing to live up to it).

[taalismn]

Just got the PDf of the book. The additional Earth mecha was always a fan favorite of mine, the Delta fighter and ZSB were always good additions, the logan and assault battloid weren't as nice, but then I never liked the logan. The new masters mecha were a joy, something less fragile than the original masters mecha, got some good mileage out of those. Now with the updated system, I'll be looking at what will be needed to update those to it. Without violating rules here, in short, some stats may go up, some may go down based on what the 2nd baseline for each of the new mecha will be.

Never really like the Logan? The mecha had potentially the #1 or #2 most powerful VT gun in the 1E game when looking at Range/Damage/ROF/Payload together, the only guns more potent where BFGs on the heavy Destroids or units with multiple instances of a less powerful gun. The 1E nose gun bascially had the potential to pop a (fresh undamaged) Zentreadi Regult in each attack per melee (GU-11 could only do that x1 per melee, the VHT main cannon x2 per melee, and the Logan was x4 minimum), it out ranged most enemy guns (it out ranges the GU-11 and matches the VHT main cannon), had unlimited payload (no reloading/recharging). It's main weakness was its "light armor" compared to other full VFs.

Honestly the best course for updating them I think would to just redo the flavor text and make them IMUs (which is surprisingly easy to do with "RotM" and "SF" prototypes) from the existing material. Sure it requires a bit of reworking on the campaign module, but its probably easier than updating the various mecha.k.

The SuperLogan has enough Alpha-looking parts to make the IMU option VERY viable...it would be one of the more refined patchworks done by some experienced engineers.

[ShadowLogan]

@taalismnn
Yes the Super Logan has enough Alpha parts to make the IMU option viable, but that could also be said about the Assault Battloid and the Delta (the ZEB would require a lot of work) really. When the IMU threads where still hot, I did just that with most/all of the "prototypes" from 1E "Strike Force" and "Return of the Masters (Revised)".

@gb2098
another option for the Assault Battloid is to turn it into an "add-on" for stock ASC Battloids that adds a heavy missile punch with possibly additional armor.