Ghost Fleet and New Books

[MikeM]

I apologize if this has been discussed before, but I am confused about the Ghost Fleet book.
In the weekly newsletters, sometimes the book seems to be for Robotech Tactics and other for the actual RPG.
Does anyone know definitively?

Anyone know if there are any actual Robotech RPG (not Tactics) books being planned?

Thanks,

MikeM

[TagsPB]

Ghost Fleet Saga is for the RPG.
Hopefully Chuck will be able to give a better answer on what to expect in it, but it's all new RPG fun stuff.

[Sambot]

Like Mike, I'd also like to know. The Updates keep saying the Ghost fleet is for the RRT which is Robotech Tactics. So I'm confused too. Is it RPG, RRT or both?

[drewkitty ~..~]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rr ... ts/1799282

About half way down they talk about the "Ghost Fleet Sage" as a RTT Scenario book (Adventure modual in DND speak).

On a smaller scale, Harmony Gold has approved our proposal and art concepts for the first RRT Scenario Book and our plans for the Ghost Fleet Saga™ series.

[drewkitty ~..~]

level 5 edit due to double post

[MikeM]

That's too bad. I was hoping for some rpg books. Don't really have any interest in the minis game.

[ShadowLogan]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/posts/1799282

About half way down they talk about the "Ghost Fleet Sage" as a RTT Scenario book.

On a smaller scale, Harmony Gold has approved our proposal and art concepts for the first RRT Scenario Book and our plans for the Ghost Fleet Saga™ series.

-----------------
The RT 1st ed book is called "Ghost Ship", so I think the GF will be ""loosely"" based off the same animation snip'it the GS book was based off of.
Reference the travel to capture the RT factory.

Well depending on how the scenario books are put together they might still be usable directly or adaptable to the RPG. I'm just not sure on what the scenario book(s) will include (I don't have any interest in the Mini's line, but I thought they are supposed to be some degree of compatiblity between the two: RPG and Mini's).

[tobefrnk]

The latest Palladium Update does seem to list Ghost Fleet as a separate ROG book from the Tactics Scenario book.

[Premier]

Hi Everyone,

Sorry for the delay, but I would be more than thrilled to answer your questions and to hopefully bring some clarity on the confusion.

ROBOTECH: Ghost Fleet Saga is designated to be official source material for expanding the Robotech Role Playing Game produced by Palladium Books, but also to be utilized by Harmony Gold as a new exclusive source of new material for the Robotech Intellectual property.

Ghost Fleet Saga is a new story arc that transpires within the Robotech universe that expands on a new, epic adventure with new factions, aliens and mecha. It takes place during the earlier days of the UEEF and the testing and introduction of the Haydonite's Shadow Technology. In 2031, Zor has destroyed the Robotech Master's ship back on Earth triggering the spores of the Flower of Life to be spread across the planet, thus attracting the attention of the Invid. Led by Regess, most of the Invid raced to Earth.

As far as anyone can tell, only the Inorganics, some Genesis Pits and an unknown number of independent Invid Scientist including the Regent (and some of the Invid troops that follow them) are believed to have been left behind, and they are comparatively few and scattered across the Tirolian region of space.

Dana Sterling has arrived to Tirol using the ship she commandeered from Wolfe and it was loaded with some of the southern Cross mecha via Ajax and Spartas mecha. A special fleet is assembled to go liberate and fight the remaining Invid and various space pirates across the planetary system of Tirol. The array of liberated alien species such as Karbarrans, Praxians, etc., have joined the fight. Haydonite Shadow Tech and other enhancements are implemented into new remanufactured mecha to test and prototype Shadow Technology. With the exploration fleet and their special strike teams equipped with the prototype Shadow Tech they are dubbed the Ghost Fleet. The fleet will engage an array of space pirates, rival Tirolian forces, rogue Zentraedi and remaining Invid across various worlds plus encounter new alien allies and threats.

I'm seeking to introduce all kinds of prototype/experimental mecha with Shadow Technology, space pirates and bounty hunter characters, rogue Zentraedi, UEEF special ops and strike teams liberating people and planets from the Invid Regent. Alpha Fighters and Ajax fighting in intense space battles against rogue Zentraedi or Invid as the UEEF attempts to escort strike teams of space cyclones to breach and infiltrate Zentraedi space ships, pirate ships and Invid Hives. New Genesis Pits that house new dark secrets lurking inside their gestating chambers. Just so much more I wish I could share.

[Arnie100]

CAN WE HAVE THIS...NOW?! PPPPPPPPLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEAAAAAASSSSEEEE?!

[MikeM]

That sounds great. Thank you so much for an update (Really should be added to a weekly update).

It also sounds like Ghost Fleet is what is going to replace The Sentinels (as they were the ones going around liberating Invid infested planets before).

Looking forward to seeing the book. Is there a target date for release?

Thanks,

MikeM

[glitterboy2098]

wait.. shadow tech in 2031? per HG's own continuity it didn't show up till the early 2040's.

[Arnie100]

wait.. shadow tech in 2031? per HG's own continuity it didn't show up till the early 2040's.

Doesn't mean the book is actually set in 2031.

[eliakon]

So wait a second...
...this fleet has Shadow technology, and is reclaiming the empire...
...but the fleets sent to earth have never heard of Shadow Tech?

Am I confused or is this another change to continuity just to use something cool.
(Honest question here, I am not a Robotech expert and unlike some people on these boards can not cite every date from memory. *shrug* I buy it though, so meh)

[Premier]

CAN WE HAVE THIS...NOW?! PPPPPPPPLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEAAAAAASSSSEEEE?!

By all means, I want to see GFS out ASAP, but I have been doing the first pass of mecha designs and cast as well as warming up the hands with the drawing the older mecha as well. What I need for everyone here to do is simply remind Palladium how bad you want Ghost Fleet Saga.

[Premier]

That sounds great. Thank you so much for an update (Really should be added to a weekly update).

It also sounds like Ghost Fleet is what is going to replace The Sentinels (as they were the ones going around liberating Invid infested planets before).

Looking forward to seeing the book. Is there a target date for release?

Thanks,

MikeM

Lets just say, I wasn't seeking to "replace" the Sentinels or contradict anything in the sentinels material. Just that I see so much RPG potential during that setting and era that I felt it well-worth delving into. The story arc and cast in Ghost Fleet Saga will be different than the Sentinels RPG source material and novels. Same universe different story and expansion, basically.

[Premier]

wait.. shadow tech in 2031? per HG's own continuity it didn't show up till the early 2040's.

Your absolutely correct. However, Ghost Fleet Saga is the fleet that is equipped with the experimental prototype versions - before it was successfully implemented. Not all experiments will go as planned. implementing the Haydonite Shadow Technology into an entire faction would have had to have proved its metal first. Ghost Fleet will share that metal with you. One of the biggest things I don't want to do is have anything in Ghost Fleet Saga conflict/contradict with any established official material by Harmony Gold, though I'm not anticipating any Voltron cameos either.

[Premier]

wait.. shadow tech in 2031? per HG's own continuity it didn't show up till the early 2040's.

Doesn't mean the book is actually set in 2031.

Absolutely correct as well Arnie.
The key for the 2031 mention was that it sets the stage and it helped me get one of my favorite mecha of all time into the scenario, the Ajax.

[Premier]

So wait a second...
...this fleet has Shadow technology, and is reclaiming the empire...
...but the fleets sent to earth have never heard of Shadow Tech?

Am I confused or is this another change to continuity just to use something cool.
(Honest question here, I am not a Robotech expert and unlike some people on these boards can not cite every date from memory. *shrug* I buy it though, so meh)

Glad to help.
The fleet has the first prototypes of Shadow Technology which includes, the cool, the good, the bad and the nightmares.
As to reclaiming the empire, may I ask which empire you are speaking of?

The Ghost Fleet is seeking to purge the remnants of the Invid left behind in the Tirolian space, which lead to new expansion and exploration.

The Fleets sent to earth may or may not have heard of this technology, but none of them would have utilized it at the timeframe because it is very raw and experimental and the reason the Ghost Fleet was designed to test it in the field. Improvements, augmentations could still be conducted by Haydonites as well, before it was successfully mass produced and certainly for the dreaded 2044 treachery.

[Arnie100]

wait.. shadow tech in 2031? per HG's own continuity it didn't show up till the early 2040's.

Doesn't mean the book is actually set in 2031.

Absolutely correct as well Arnie.
The key for the 2031 mention was that it sets the stage and it helped me get one of my favorite mecha of all time into the scenario, the Ajax.

An AJAX with a shadow device would be interesting.

[Premier]

wait.. shadow tech in 2031? per HG's own continuity it didn't show up till the early 2040's.

Doesn't mean the book is actually set in 2031.

Absolutely correct as well Arnie.
The key for the 2031 mention was that it sets the stage and it helped me get one of my favorite mecha of all time into the scenario, the Ajax.

An AJAX with a shadow device would be interesting.

Your entering into the zone man...the zone

[Arnie100]

wait.. shadow tech in 2031? per HG's own continuity it didn't show up till the early 2040's.

Doesn't mean the book is actually set in 2031.

Absolutely correct as well Arnie.
The key for the 2031 mention was that it sets the stage and it helped me get one of my favorite mecha of all time into the scenario, the Ajax.

An AJAX with a shadow device would be interesting.

Your entering into the zone man...the zone

I think I hit on something here, LOLOL.

[glitterboy2098]

wait.. shadow tech in 2031? per HG's own continuity it didn't show up till the early 2040's.

Your absolutely correct. However, Ghost Fleet Saga is the fleet that is equipped with the experimental prototype versions - before it was successfully implemented. Not all experiments will go as planned. implementing the Haydonite Shadow Technology into an entire faction would have had to have proved its metal first. Ghost Fleet will share that metal with you. One of the biggest things I don't want to do is have anything in Ghost Fleet Saga conflict/contradict with any established official material by Harmony Gold, though I'm not anticipating any Voltron cameos either.

except that the prototype UEEF versions didn't get deployed, per HG, till the battle of Opetera in 2043.

the UEEF did not even encounter shadow tech until 2040, when Edwards deployed one ship and a squadron of fighters with it. the UEEF was completely caught off guard, even their high command.
(also worth noting, that right after Edwards flees Tyrol, we find out that sentinels worlds have just recently been liberated. it is the sentinel's worlds help that allows for the UEEF to reverse engineer and refit with shadow tech as rapidly as it does)


seriously, do any of PB's robotech writers even bother to check what HG's canon is?

[TagsPB]

wait.. shadow tech in 2031? per HG's own continuity it didn't show up till the early 2040's.

Your absolutely correct. However, Ghost Fleet Saga is the fleet that is equipped with the experimental prototype versions - before it was successfully implemented. Not all experiments will go as planned. implementing the Haydonite Shadow Technology into an entire faction would have had to have proved its metal first. Ghost Fleet will share that metal with you. One of the biggest things I don't want to do is have anything in Ghost Fleet Saga conflict/contradict with any established official material by Harmony Gold, though I'm not anticipating any Voltron cameos either.

except that the prototype UEEF versions didn't get deployed, per HG, till the battle of Opetera in 2043.

the UEEF did not even encounter shadow tech until 2040, when Edwards deployed one ship and a squadron of fighters with it. the UEEF was completely caught off guard, even their high command.
(also worth noting, that right after Edwards flees Tyrol, we find out that sentinels worlds have just recently been liberated. it is the sentinel's worlds help that allows for the UEEF to reverse engineer and refit with shadow tech as rapidly as it does)


seriously, do any of PB's robotech writers even bother to check what HG's canon is?

I'm sorry, but HG's Cannon is what they say....not what you say they say it is. And Premier and Kevin actually you know, TALK with HG.

So if they say it's cannon, and tell PB it's cannon. It's cannon. Even if it wasn't before, it is now.

[glitterboy2098]

except this isn't "what i say it is" it's "what prelude and the Art of shadow chronicles say and show"
which is a very different thing.

so if HG is contradicting their own canon they have a fairly big problem.

[eliakon]

except this isn't "what i say it is" it's "what prelude and the Art of shadow chronicles say and show"
which is a very different thing.

so if HG is contradicting their own canon they have a fairly big problem.

Wasn't this sort of self contradicting canon the whole reason that they reset in the first place?
So that, theoretically, they would have a new, consistent canon that would be consistent across all the materials so that everything would be using the same time lines and stuff?
If their not going to do that... why bother with the reboot?

[ShadowLogan]

I'm sorry, but HG's Cannon is what they say....not what you say they say it is. And Premier and Kevin actually you know, TALK with HG.

So if they say it's cannon, and tell PB it's cannon. It's cannon. Even if it wasn't before, it is now.

Previous CANON material produced and released by HG states when when Shadow Technology was developed (2042-4 PER Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles Graphic Novel for the UEEF proper, Edwards was developing the technology in Secret form the UEEF for even longer than that. That is a canon material). So gb2098 is not incorrect when he raises the canon flag.

So you essentially end up with a continuity mess, which we see in UEEF Marines (as posters have indicated that is one of the reasons I didn't get the book) where there seems to be a disconnect.

Wasn't this sort of self contradicting canon the whole reason that they reset in the first place?
So that, theoretically, they would have a new, consistent canon that would be consistent across all the materials so that everything would be using the same time lines and stuff?
If their not going to do that... why bother with the reboot?

In part. It wasn't that the canon was self contradicting, it was more that there was no canon. You had the novel take on events, the comics take, the RPGs take, and the shows take (and maybe some more or even subdivided factions). Oddly enough though the novels and RPG agreed on compatible dates for series events actually, and the series was pretty sparse on dating (NG being the prime era with no easily established dating, if there was you wouldn't have had the ER vs LR timeline debates), and I don't know the comics to even comment here.

[glitterboy2098]

the ghost fleet idea is an interesting one and certainly would work, it is just the shadow technology angle that doesn't fit the HG timeline.

drop the shadow technology, and maybe move the start back a few years to 2034/2035 (to account for the time it would take for the ASC survivors to make the transit between earth and tyrol.. the earliest they left in 2031, per love and war issue 1 and love live alive, and it has been established in multiple sources, both HG and canon, that the travel time between the two prior to the advent of the Nichols enhanced drives in 2043 is measured in years. the RPG establishes a three year trip**, as does the HG timeline)
2-3 years to get there, and 6 months to a year for the UEEF to fully organize the fleet. since the UEEF helped evacuate them they'd know they were on their way, but even knowing exactly who and what is coming you'd need time after the official forming to integrate everything)

if you need a justification for calling it the ghost fleet when there is no shadow technology involved in its forming, just claim it is the unofficial name due to the high number of ASC personnel. "soldiers of a dead military", a perfect excuse for people to call them ghosts.

and you can still put the shadow technology in once it is developed in 2042. you just have to be specific that it did not exist prior to then. a force like this would be a great place to test experimental units, but prior to 2042 you don't have shadow tech or anything like it being deployed. once the UEEF gets hold of it (and thanks to the haydonites help, they get it pretty fast) you'd see them deploying the prototypes.



**it establishes it for the wrong ******* reasons, but it does. UEEF marines uses the pre-reboot 'extremely long fold' of the old early return/mckinneyist camp, which contradicted both the indications in the show (where prior to shadow chronicles, folding required you to drop out every so often recharge and adjust your course) and the current RPG (where the fold drives could only take you a maximum distance in one fold. ship stats averaged 100 to 150 parsecs per fold for the pre-shadow chronicles ships. that is, 326.16 to 489.23 light years. which is a really tiny distance on the galactic scale. human built ships (the ASC ships) tended to be on the lower end of this range, while zentreadi ships tended to be on the upper. it is likely that the UEEF ships of the time (which the RPG does not yet have properly updated stats for) were on par with the ASC ships, since most were designed around the same time.
at least the three year travel time was established prior to UEEF marines (per the HG timeline, the SDF-3 left in 2022, and we have several entries in the shadow chronicles RPG core book establishing the UEEF was fighting the invid in tyrol space as early as 2025) so we can take the time involved as accurate, and we just have to junk the improbable single jump.

(the SDF-1 and master's motherships could do 200 parsecs/652.313 light years, suggesting that tyrolian built ships at the height of their empire were better than the zentraedi systems. however the ASC survivors would not have any of these (the masters at earth no longer had the protoculture fuel needed), and when the UEEF arrived at tyrol all the infrastructure for the master's empire was more or less destroyed by the invid and had to be rebuilt with mostly human knowledge.)
in 2042 the UEEF refit to use a new drive system developed by louie nichols (and built with haydonite help) that gave their ships (according to the RPG stats) a roughly 5x range boost over the older models.

[Arnie100]

Well, Harmony Gold approved the book and the ideas in it.

[eliakon]

Well, Harmony Gold approved the book and the ideas in it.

Which tells us that either:
1) HG is either not reading their own canon
2) HG doesn't care about canon anymore.
3) HG is going to decanonize the game and so doesn't care what the game does since its not going to be official anymore.

I'm starting to suspect #3.

[glitterboy2098]

Well, Harmony Gold approved the book and the ideas in it.

Which tells us that either:
1) HG is either not reading their own canon
2) HG doesn't care about canon anymore.
3) HG is going to decanonize the game and so doesn't care what the game does since its not going to be official anymore.

I'm starting to suspect #3.

i suspect it is a mix of both 1 and 3.

edit: to elaborate, i suspect that HG's team reviewing the RPG does not keep themselves up to date with the canon the HG creative team is creating, and that HG does not consider the RPG an important part of the new canon at all. the review team is likely looking more to ensure that the RPG does not violate any of the copyright/trademark issues HG has, like say incorporating large amounts of material derived from the japanese macross sequel works, or other material HG does not have access to.

that said, the onus is on the RPG's writers to conform to HG's canon as well as to remain consistent internally. the books by Mr. marker did a fairly good job of sticking ot the official HG canon (though the level of detail and internal consistency was occasionally lacking). the books by Mr. jackson were fair in that regard, with the exception of UEEF marines.. which is causing no end of trouble in reconciling it with both Hg canon and the previous RPG works. (and this despite the fact that multiple reviewers of the RAW edition of the book were pointing out the same damn problems it had relative to the HG canon.)

moving forward we need to fixing the continuity problems of the UEEF marine books with soft-retcons of that book's timeline and setting info to conform to HG canon, while expanding on the areas that book left open.

[Robroy]

I stopped worrying about the Sentinels/UEEF timeline and went with my own. Lot less headache.

[Warshield73]

I stopped worrying about the Sentinels/UEEF timeline and went with my own. Lot less headache.

I use my own timeline as well but for me it is more for convenience and to make things easier on players. I want them to be able to use mecha and aliens from the beginning that aren't available until later.

I love the premise of the Ghost Fleet, it sounds like a great platform to run a Robotech campaign from so I don't care if it fits with the official timeline. My big hope would be to get a few types of player group sized spacecraft that can carry mecha for a planet hopping campaign away from the fleet. Scout ships if you will.

[BookWyrm]

I'm just looking forward to new RT data.

[Tiree]

I think GB2098 has a valid point about Canon, and keeping with Harmony Gold's stated canon.

I like GB2098's idea, but I would like to expand upon it. Make the Ghost Fleet, TR Edwards Fleet. It initially was the squadron that he had formed when coming on board the SDF-3 and the UEEF's Mission to Tirol. Have it be bolstered by the survivors of the ASC. This could still allow the Shadow Technology be added to all the ASC Mecha, Have all the Shadow Technology be done in secret from the prying eyes of the UEEF. We know TR Edwards had to test it, had to perfect it, etc...

How long did he have access to an Invid Scientist and Brain to help him develop the new technology. He could even in theory have it done in secret from his own people. Just providing new technology to beta-test while he is off saving the rest of the galaxy from the Invid Scourge.

Chuck - I totally appreciate what you have brought forth. I hope you are able to still edit/massage the manuscript to add in fan concerns about timeline and canon. I would hope you would reach out to fellow freelancers who know Robotech Canon and hold it a bit closer to the vest than Mr. Jackson. Maybe even GB2098 could potentially help, from what I understand he is in the middle of writing his own Manuscript for Palladium. Tap the fans for help, and make this book a massive success.

[glitterboy2098]

seems unlikely that anyone using shadow tech on a major scale like that would be able to prevent knowledge of it from leaking out. a fleet means thousands of people, and it would only take one set of loose lips. when Edwards revealed one squadron of shadow alphas and one (small) warship it was a complete surprise. hell, they didn't even know that the ship had been built (it was an extra from a class they'd not even finished building the rest of yet.. and edward's ship had a major design change to boot!) clearly edwards was keeping his shadowtech project extremely covert and limited to just an inner circle.

but really, you don't need shadow tech to get some of the stealth. ASC mecha are SLMH fusion powered. this means they should be invisible to the invid PC sensors. so a fleet using old Ajax, Logans, The battloids and power armor, the ASC aerospace fighters, etc would be very effective against the invid. it would just be a real pain to keep them supplied logistically since they'd be using a totally different set of designs than the UEEF stuff, and be running through SLMH at a rapid pace (remember, SLMH fusion powerplants only provide a week or two of power and required fuel tankage comparable to modern aircraft (by visuals in the show at least), while the PC stuff can power a mecha for a month only only a few quarts of PC)
(and while some of the ASC battloids tend to be a bit limited in firepower in the RPG, due to lack of missiles, it wouldn't be hard to justify the UEEF developing some FAST pack or Armor pack type modules to make the battloids more capable.)

aside from the logistical issues, the biggest problem with using ASC designs as special weapons against the invid would be gettign them to a planet, since even the ASC starship rely on protoculture for their main power.

that might be where you could sneak in some stealth tech.. just not shadow technology. the UEEF wold obviously be experimenting on stealth options, and even their pre-shadowtech technology should allow some sort of limited stealth technology developments. the canon comics has humans understanding gravity control fairly well, albeit with bulky systems, so maybe some sort of gravitational lensing system. or maybe some sort of hyperspace mcguyvering (like the way they created the barrier shields) could well be something they try. but it would need to be more limited than shadowtech.. something that can't be used on mecha for example, and giving a starship using it some sort of major drawback that makes it effectively a dead end or limited use system, explaining why shadowtech gets adopted so readily when it shows up.

[Sambot]

Hi Everyone,

Sorry for the delay, but I would be more than thrilled to answer your questions and to hopefully bring some clarity on the confusion.

It sounds great and I look forward to it and many sequels.

I don't know what is currant canon anymore. I went with head canon years ago. What glitterboy2098 said about ASC mecha already being stealthy to Invid does make some sense though. Although Invid do see other things and will strike back if attacked. If they couldn't they couldn't have taken Earth or other non Protoculture using planets. Plus there being a large contingent of ASC troops on the expeditionary force goes along with Wolfe having hovertanks, the expeditionary force using ASC uniforms, and Leonard saying that the Expeditionary force stripped Earth's defenses. Presuming those things still happened of course. But doing so does have the logistics issues which could lead to the blending of Mecha styles like those seen in the old Strike Force book and the new Marines book. At least that's how my head canon worked things. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens. Please don't make us wait too long.

[glitterboy2098]

sure the invid have other sensing systems (mainly visual, in the show) but to put it into the RPG terms, they are more accurate shooting at a protoculture power enemy than a non-PC one (by a significant margin.) a non-PC opponent can also go undetected easier by staying under cover, and even if seen, has a fair chance of being ignored by the lower rank invid as long as the non-PC opponent doesn't start shooting.

though given that scott bernard seem unaware that the individual invid mecha can track protoculture when he arrives at earth in 2042 he either hadn't fought the invid in tyrol space (a possibility [1]) or the UEEF had just been unaware of that specific fact and had assumed some other explanation for invid accuracy [2]

[1] it is possible that Scott's unit was never in tyrol space. we see them in shuttles, which are hardly the sort of ship that you'd want to be in to make a multi-month trip across the galaxy in. so the Horizonts and their squadrons may have been from a base in the solar system and just added to the 21st mars fleet last minute, or something. lack of exposure to the enemy would explain the ignorance.

[2] or it could be that since in the war with the regent fighting mostly occurred around hives, they assumed the hives had the special sensors and were feeding the invid mecha data. much like how the UEEF used their combat data networking.

[Premier]

I stopped worrying about the Sentinels/UEEF timeline and went with my own. Lot less headache.

I use my own timeline as well but for me it is more for convenience and to make things easier on players. I want them to be able to use mecha and aliens from the beginning that aren't available until later.

I love the premise of the Ghost Fleet, it sounds like a great platform to run a Robotech campaign from so I don't care if it fits with the official timeline. My big hope would be to get a few types of player group sized spacecraft that can carry mecha for a planet hopping campaign away from the fleet. Scout ships if you will.

Thank you Warhsield73!!!
I will certainly do my best with timeline challenges, but my goal is first and foremost to give the Robotech gamers and fans a setting that they can continue to enjoy and immerse their adventures in. With that being said, I do believe that the timeline for Ghost Fleet Saga will not be such a major challenge as some of the other previous titles might have been.
As to the player group sized spacecraft, let me just say, duly noted, and hopefully you will enjoy what's brewing in my concept room.

I think GB2098 has a valid point about Canon, and keeping with Harmony Gold's stated canon.

I like GB2098's idea, but I would like to expand upon it. Make the Ghost Fleet, TR Edwards Fleet. It initially was the squadron that he had formed when coming on board the SDF-3 and the UEEF's Mission to Tirol. Have it be bolstered by the survivors of the ASC. This could still allow the Shadow Technology be added to all the ASC Mecha, Have all the Shadow Technology be done in secret from the prying eyes of the UEEF. We know TR Edwards had to test it, had to perfect it, etc...

How long did he have access to an Invid Scientist and Brain to help him develop the new technology. He could even in theory have it done in secret from his own people. Just providing new technology to beta-test while he is off saving the rest of the galaxy from the Invid Scourge.

Chuck - I totally appreciate what you have brought forth. I hope you are able to still edit/massage the manuscript to add in fan concerns about timeline and canon. I would hope you would reach out to fellow freelancers who know Robotech Canon and hold it a bit closer to the vest than Mr. Jackson. Maybe even GB2098 could potentially help, from what I understand he is in the middle of writing his own Manuscript for Palladium. Tap the fans for help, and make this book a massive success.

Tiree, have you been peaking into the classified hangars ? Indeed, I am paying attention and there are indeed, precious gems that I am thrilled to talk with, to help make Ghost Fleet Saga an epic Robotech setting. Help is certainly being enlisted as we speak.

You guys are absolutely the best!

[Robroy]

sure the invid have other sensing systems (mainly visual, in the show) but to put it into the RPG terms, they are more accurate shooting at a protoculture power enemy than a non-PC one (by a significant margin.) a non-PC opponent can also go undetected easier by staying under cover, and even if seen, has a fair chance of being ignored by the lower rank invid as long as the non-PC opponent doesn't start shooting.

though given that scott bernard seem unaware that the individual invid mecha can track protoculture when he arrives at earth in 2042 he either hadn't fought the invid in tyrol space (a possibility [1]) or the UEEF had just been unaware of that specific fact and had assumed some other explanation for invid accuracy [2]

[1] it is possible that Scott's unit was never in tyrol space. we see them in shuttles, which are hardly the sort of ship that you'd want to be in to make a multi-month trip across the galaxy in. so the Horizonts and their squadrons may have been from a base in the solar system and just added to the 21st mars fleet last minute, or something. lack of exposure to the enemy would explain the ignorance.

[2] or it could be that since in the war with the regent fighting mostly occurred around hives, they assumed the hives had the special sensors and were feeding the invid mecha data. much like how the UEEF used their combat data networking.

In my games I explain Scott not knowing as the UEEF as always in a stand up fight. Ether liberating a planet or defending from a counter attack against the Regent. As a resistance fighter he had to adopt gorilla tactics, which meant laying low sometimes. We see in the show Lancer discover that turning on his weapon the Invid change in behavior. The UEEF always went in ready for a fight not realizing it was their PC power source that the Invid was tracking.

[taalismn]

[In my games I explain Scott not knowing as the UEEF as always in a stand up fight. Ether liberating a planet or defending from a counter attack against the Regent. As a resistance fighter he had to adopt gorilla tactics, which meant laying low sometimes. We see in the show Lancer discover that turning on his weapon the Invid change in behavior. The UEEF always went in ready for a fight not realizing it was their PC power source that the Invid was tracking.

It's 'guerilla' tactics for future reference.
"Oh dear god, we misfolded and landed on the Planet of the Apes!"
"Ah, actually, sir, I'm Lieutenant Bernard and, well, lost my shaving kit when I crashlanded. Been too busy running and fighting to replace it, sorry, sir."

[Robroy]

[In my games I explain Scott not knowing as the UEEF as always in a stand up fight. Ether liberating a planet or defending from a counter attack against the Regent. As a resistance fighter he had to adopt gorilla tactics, which meant laying low sometimes. We see in the show Lancer discover that turning on his weapon the Invid change in behavior. The UEEF always went in ready for a fight not realizing it was their PC power source that the Invid was tracking.

It's 'guerilla' tactics for future reference.
"Oh dear god, we misfolded and landed on the Planet of the Apes!"
"Ah, actually, sir, I'm Lieutenant Bernard and, well, lost my shaving kit when I crashlanded. Been too busy running and fighting to replace it, sorry, sir."

Not my fault, I didn't do it, blame auto correct.

But in all seriousness, if not for auto correct you would think that was using an alien language. I am happy that I only made one mistake.

[Sambot]

sure the invid have other sensing systems (mainly visual, in the show) but to put it into the RPG terms, they are more accurate shooting at a protoculture power enemy than a non-PC one (by a significant margin.) a non-PC opponent can also go undetected easier by staying under cover, and even if seen, has a fair chance of being ignored by the lower rank invid as long as the non-PC opponent doesn't start shooting.

though given that scott bernard seem unaware that the individual invid mecha can track protoculture when he arrives at earth in 2042 he either hadn't fought the invid in tyrol space (a possibility [1]) or the UEEF had just been unaware of that specific fact and had assumed some other explanation for invid accuracy [2]

[1] it is possible that Scott's unit was never in tyrol space. we see them in shuttles, which are hardly the sort of ship that you'd want to be in to make a multi-month trip across the galaxy in. so the Horizonts and their squadrons may have been from a base in the solar system and just added to the 21st mars fleet last minute, or something. lack of exposure to the enemy would explain the ignorance.

[2] or it could be that since in the war with the regent fighting mostly occurred around hives, they assumed the hives had the special sensors and were feeding the invid mecha data. much like how the UEEF used their combat data networking.

In my games I explain Scott not knowing as the UEEF as always in a stand up fight. Ether liberating a planet or defending from a counter attack against the Regent. As a resistance fighter he had to adopt gorilla tactics, which meant laying low sometimes. We see in the show Lancer discover that turning on his weapon the Invid change in behavior. The UEEF always went in ready for a fight not realizing it was their PC power source that the Invid was tracking.

The REF always going in "hot" would explain why Scott didn't know the Invid didn't track protoculture. Except, wouldn't the Masters and Zentraedi would have figured that out centuries ago? The always "Hot" explanation also doesn't make sense when considering the Invid occupied planets that don't use Protoculture beyond where the Masters or Zentraedi were based. Surely the Sentinal's races would have figured that out that Invid track protoculture and shared the information with the REF?

It makes me think that there's something different about the Regent's forces. Either something technological or in their experience/training. The Regent did use technology the Regis didn't, Inorganics and such, only much of their forces used identical units. So that kind of rules out tech. That leaves training and experience.

From what I remember the Regent's forces did the bulk of the fighting. That would make them more experienced and less likely to ignore people and vehicles than the Regis's forces would be. The Regent's Forces being experienced use all kinds of sensors to attack anything that might be a threat. That would allow them to maintain control over populations that didn't use protoculture. Meanwhile, the Regis's forces with their more limited experience overly relied on their Protoculture tracker to attack protoculture users.

That would explain why those fighting the Invid in space didn't realize the Invid could track protoculture, and why the Invid on Earth would ignore those not using protoculture or attacking them. Wouldn't it?

[Sambot]

"Oh dear god, we misfolded and landed on the Planet of the Apes!"

Now to get out Alien's Unlimited.

[ShadowLogan]

[1] it is possible that Scott's unit was never in tyrol space. we see them in shuttles, which are hardly the sort of ship that you'd want to be in to make a multi-month trip across the galaxy in. so the Horizonts and their squadrons may have been from a base in the solar system and just added to the 21st mars fleet last minute, or something. lack of exposure to the enemy would explain the ignorance.

Fold Bubble use would explain the shuttle issue (IIRC dialogue exists in Ep61 establishing they are in hyperspace), though the Garfish now has a Fold System (not present in 1E RPG or OSM) so maybe the Horizon-Ts receive a similar change.

[2] or it could be that since in the war with the regent fighting mostly occurred around hives, they assumed the hives had the special sensors and were feeding the invid mecha data. much like how the UEEF used their combat data networking.

That is possible explanation. In "The Fortress", Scott sends in Rand/Annie to knockout a Hive Sensor. Granted this doesn't necessarily explain why the concept is so far out considering Zentreadi mecha had PC detectors (Ep35 IIRC).

[Robroy]

sure the invid have other sensing systems (mainly visual, in the show) but to put it into the RPG terms, they are more accurate shooting at a protoculture power enemy than a non-PC one (by a significant margin.) a non-PC opponent can also go undetected easier by staying under cover, and even if seen, has a fair chance of being ignored by the lower rank invid as long as the non-PC opponent doesn't start shooting.

though given that scott bernard seem unaware that the individual invid mecha can track protoculture when he arrives at earth in 2042 he either hadn't fought the invid in tyrol space (a possibility [1]) or the UEEF had just been unaware of that specific fact and had assumed some other explanation for invid accuracy [2]

[1] it is possible that Scott's unit was never in tyrol space. we see them in shuttles, which are hardly the sort of ship that you'd want to be in to make a multi-month trip across the galaxy in. so the Horizonts and their squadrons may have been from a base in the solar system and just added to the 21st mars fleet last minute, or something. lack of exposure to the enemy would explain the ignorance.

[2] or it could be that since in the war with the regent fighting mostly occurred around hives, they assumed the hives had the special sensors and were feeding the invid mecha data. much like how the UEEF used their combat data networking.

In my games I explain Scott not knowing as the UEEF as always in a stand up fight. Ether liberating a planet or defending from a counter attack against the Regent. As a resistance fighter he had to adopt gorilla tactics, which meant laying low sometimes. We see in the show Lancer discover that turning on his weapon the Invid change in behavior. The UEEF always went in ready for a fight not realizing it was their PC power source that the Invid was tracking.

The REF always going in "hot" would explain why Scott didn't know the Invid didn't track protoculture. Except, wouldn't the Masters and Zentraedi would have figured that out centuries ago? The always "Hot" explanation also doesn't make sense when considering the Invid occupied planets that don't use Protoculture beyond where the Masters or Zentraedi were based. Surely the Sentinal's races would have figured that out that Invid track protoculture and shared the information with the REF?

It makes me think that there's something different about the Regent's forces. Either something technological or in their experience/training. The Regent did use technology the Regis didn't, Inorganics and such, only much of their forces used identical units. So that kind of rules out tech. That leaves training and experience.

From what I remember the Regent's forces did the bulk of the fighting. That would make them more experienced and less likely to ignore people and vehicles than the Regis's forces would be. The Regent's Forces being experienced use all kinds of sensors to attack anything that might be a threat. That would allow them to maintain control over populations that didn't use protoculture. Meanwhile, the Regis's forces with their more limited experience overly relied on their Protoculture tracker to attack protoculture users.

That would explain why those fighting the Invid in space didn't realize the Invid could track protoculture, and why the Invid on Earth would ignore those not using protoculture or attacking them. Wouldn't it?

Would the Zentraedi or the Sentinal's races? The Masters made them dependent on PC. The Zentraedi didn't even know what PC was. Didn't they see Little White Dragon and think the FX in it was humans using PC?

And even if the Masters knew, would they care? From what I understand of the Masters I think they would just send in more Zentraedi, they can always clone more.

[glitterboy2098]

in prelude the UEEF does not learn about the invid being able to 'see' protoculture until they capture Edward's data in 2041. apparently Edward's had known already, but not the UEEF as a whole (and this is Lang being surprised by it)

so not only do the regents forces have the same protoculture sensors in their mecha, but evidently the UEEF did notice it to some degree, and the result of all that were being hidden by Edwards and his cronies.

[BookWyrm]

"Oh dear god, we misfolded and landed on the Planet of the Apes!"

Now to get out Alien's Unlimited.

Anyone else picture Caesar (classic PotA) flying an Alpha?

[Sambot]

Would the Zentraedi or the Sentinal's races? The Masters made them dependent on PC. The Zentraedi didn't even know what PC was. Didn't they see Little White Dragon and think the FX in it was humans using PC?

And even if the Masters knew, would they care? From what I understand of the Masters I think they would just send in more Zentraedi, they can always clone more.

How dependent on protoculture were the Sentinal's races really? Most don't seem to have much use for it. Plus they've been fighting the Invid for ages. You'd think they'd notice the Invid tracking protoculture.

Superpowered humans and kissing aren't a fuel source. Even if the Zentraedi didn't know what powered their ships and mecha, I would think that the Zentraedi would be able to notice getting the Invid's attention when they turn on their equipment. Tiroleans too.

And when you consider the Perytonia's abilities I'm not sure why the FX were so shocking to them.

And yes, the Masters would initially just send in more Zentraedi but after years of that not working and their protoculture supplies dwindling, I'd of thought they'd do something to mitigate the Invid tracking them. Not that the Invid wouldn't shoot known Zentraedi/Masters stuff on site and ask questions later. But I would have thought they'd think of something.

in prelude the UEEF does not learn about the invid being able to 'see' protoculture until they capture Edward's data in 2041. apparently Edward's had known already, but not the UEEF as a whole (and this is Lang being surprised by it)

so not only do the regents forces have the same protoculture sensors in their mecha, but evidently the UEEF did notice it to some degree, and the result of all that were being hidden by Edwards and his cronies.

So that would mean the Regent had more experienced troops, and Edwards had people in high places to cover things up?

"Oh dear god, we misfolded and landed on the Planet of the Apes!"

Now to get out Alien's Unlimited.

Anyone else picture Caesar (classic PotA) flying an Alpha?

Lol!

[glitterboy2098]

in prelude the UEEF does not learn about the invid being able to 'see' protoculture until they capture Edward's data in 2041. apparently Edward's had known already, but not the UEEF as a whole (and this is Lang being surprised by it)

so not only do the regents forces have the same protoculture sensors in their mecha, but evidently the UEEF did notice it to some degree, and the result of all that were being hidden by Edwards and his cronies.

So that would mean the Regent had more experienced troops, and Edwards had people in high places to cover things up?

not sure how you got the idea of more experienced troops for the regent (care to elaborate?), but comment on edwards is pretty much spot on.

we know he had fairly big ties to the R&D department. he was able to get shadow devices and synchrocannons developed without anyone else knowing, and get a still under construction Shimikaze class ship not only completed way ahead of schedule, but heavily modified from its original (already fairly experimental) design.

this suggests he had to have agents throughout a lot of the UEEF's different departments. scientific research, technology R&D, manufacturing, logistics, human resources, communications, internal security, etc. people who shared his vision about how to defend earth and what the UEEF should be (if not necessarily aware of his exact goals and actions) and which were willing to use their positions to perform under-the-table activities for his projects. if they were careful to make everything look as legal as possible it would be hard to pick up on and root out such a conspiracy too.

odds are that is where Edwards got all the inorganics he used in Prelude's opening battle too. having deactivated inorganics sent back to the R&D facilities on Tirol for study would seem a fairly normal thing, and it would be unlikely that anyone would notice him diverting and stockpiling them if he made sure the shipments came in small enough batches.