Fixing the broken stats for 2E Robotech

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Okay, a friend shared a suggestion on Facebook a while back on how to un-frack the rather absurd armor/damage issues wrt to Robotech 2E (as in the Bioroid Soldier being less armored than the Invid Pincer and on-par with the Regult Battlepod). Since we cannot post ACTUAL stats, I'll just give his advice: use the. 1E stats/damage for both the Macross Saga and New Generation mecha. This will solve 90% of the problem. The remaining 10% requires re-jiggering the small arms and mecha long arms stats ( there is no logical reason for the EU-11 to do less damage than any character-scale blaster rifle).

This brings things pretty much back into focus. The main problems remain the Pincer (aka Scout) and Protector. The EP-37, not only in the liner notes but shown in the Tv series, can obliterate a Pincer with a single shot. Halving the 1E Scout MDC should fix that (as well as fixing the faxt we see Rand shoot Scouts into swiss cheese with his EP-40, which is just a souped-up blaster pistol).

The Protector is a light suit of Power-Amplified Body Armor that the Gallant H-90 pistol can bring down (reference The Big Apple). So, bring its MDC to at least the Pincer's, if not halving that as well. These are mooks, after all and not Hero mecha.

[ShadowLogan]

I don't think the suggestion really solves the problem. A good portion of the problem with the system is that it lacks a sense of scale, and the mechanics don't necessarily replicate on screen performance (ex. effectiveness of the Logan's guns, ROF of the VHT maingun, the uselessness of the H-90 for all but an eye shot on the larger Invid Mecha, etc).

If you want a quick easy fix:
-reduce infantry size (human-size, BA and PA) MDC protection by a factor of 10, and light weapons by 1 DIE code (1d6 becomes 1d4 for ex) (heavy anti-armor role weapons stay the same)
-increase giant size (mecha, Zentreadi) weapons damage by a factor of 2 or 5 or 10 for simplicity (probably x2 for TMS as it already is heavily slanted in terms of power output, TRM/NG/TSC x5 or x10 depending on preference and math ability) and leave the MDC alone (specific cases might exist for a tweak), I'd probably double the range of most guns
-missiles and explosives now do x10 more damage, except mini's and grenades (I'd double them though) and exploding bullets (since these get covered by the above IMHO, no need to double dip)

[Jefffar]

MDC was created to resolve scaling issues and in the first edition first book it did so, serving as a hard line dividing mecha; tanks; and battleships from infantry; unarmored vehicles; and civilian equipment.

However, that didn't last very long (ie the 4th book of the first edition) before this line broke down, and in the new edition, which has been heavily influenced by Rifts, that line is gone completely.

Personally, in my own stats I start with the Battlepod. I give it an arbitrary value. From there, mecha and combat vehicles are assigned a value based on how hard I think. They are to kill compared to a Battlepod.

So, for example
Battlepod: 1
Valkyrie: 2.5
Defender: 2.5
Phalanx: 2.5
Spartan: 3
Tomahawk 3.5
Jet Fighter .5
Etc

Then, I base the weapons on how many hits I want them to (on average) kill a Battlepod

32mm autocannon: 6 hits
Light Zentraedi Particle Beam: 4 hits
55mm autocannon: 3 hits
78mm autocannon: 2 hits (APDS)
155mm Particle Beam .75 hit
Light anti-mecha missile (Short Range Missile) 1 hit
Heavy anti-mecha missile (medium range missile) .5h

Once the baselines are there, the next generations just play for the same scale.

So Bioroids would be at 1.5 to 3 depending on version
Southern Cross Battloids 2.5 to 3.5 depending on version
Logan probably a 1.5 or 2, Ajax a 2.5 or 3 and VHT 3 or 3.5
Southern Cross Power Armour a .75 to 1.25 depending on version
Southern Cross body armour a .25 to .4

Weapons receive a similar treatment
30mm Energy Gunpod 4 or 5 hits
40mm Energy Gunpod 3 or 4 hits
105mm Cannon: .75 hit (APDS)
220mm Energy Cannon: .5 hit

Infantry weapons would take dozens of hits to destroy a mecha, unless they are a specific anti-mecha weapon.

Again the hits to kill are average values, so while it averages only a single missile hit to kill a Battlepod, that same missile can do serious damage to a Destoid or Battloid, possibly even making a kill on a critical hit.

[glitterboy2098]

personally, i just assume the full stats are there for when you are using the enemy as a boss battle. if you are facing mooks, i just go with a more narrative approach. i say it goes down before the mdc is depleted? well you hit something important. this way i can adjust the challenge to make for a more dramatic and cinematic scene.

after all, while a VF-1 should be able to take down multiple battlepods as per the show.. a group of people on foot with anti-tank missiles is going to find a single battlepod much more of a challenge. if you scale them for the VF, the infantry get it much easier. if you scale it for the infantry, the VF has problems. if you try to scale for both.. both do badly.

[Tiree]

There might be notes of the Mook/Hero rules I suggested back before 2E came out here on the forums.

Basically it made hero's stand out. Giving the PC some ability to withstand MD combat even without armor. With the idea that the damage actually hitting, but being more of a 'wear down' and 'near misses'. You can only do so much before you get hit... etc...