A Psi-Sword Shield?

[Mack]

Amusing thought crossed my mind: Since an experienced Cyber-Knight can make his Psi-Sword into just about any melee weapon, could he make it take the shape of a shield? He could have a normal Psi-Sword in one hand and "Psi-Sword-Shield" in the other.

Leafing through RUE, I don't see anything that expressly forbids it. However, the context is pretty clear that the shape is limited to typical melee weapons. Allowing it is effectively an end-run around the Psi-Shield's ISP requirement.

If I were to allow it, I'd limit it to a small shield (such as a buckler or targe).

[ShadowLogan]

Well technically Shields can be used as weapons (even the WP gives them bonuses to strike and what they do in a hit), though if you shape it into a shield you would be using the "weaker" offensive skill for strike bonuses.

If you want to get even funkier their are shield/sword combos called lantern shields that sport blades on them and where a real thing (IIRC they where limited to buckler), though which WP would be most applicable to this setup I'm not sure. IIRC they are even in one one of the ancient weapon compendiums (want to say the compilation one but not sure).

[Nightmartree]

I'd Allow you to have a "Psi-sword" shaped as a shield and function under the shield WP, but you can't have a Psi-sword shaped like a shield AND one like a blade, the power itself doesn't work like that since its based on the users ideals/mental image. So if you somehow have a mental image that makes your Psi-sword a shield,okay I can buy it, but then you wouldn't be able to make another one as a sword cause your Psi-sword is a shield, not this other thing. Though having two shields is possible I guess, I never thought of dual wielding Psi-swords so I never considered if using it twice would get you two.

Now i'm imagining Psi-sword bladed boots or something, boxing gloves? Psi-boxer, give him a right hook, an uppercut, and that's the knockout blow! with my mind!...

[glitterboy2098]

actually since SOT4 cyberknights get the Psi-Shield power free as part of their 'zen combat' training.

[Mack]

Right. They get the psionic, but it still costs them 15 ISP to activate and would only inflict SDC damage when used for attack.

[Killer Cyborg]

Amusing thought crossed my mind: Since an experienced Cyber-Knight can make his Psi-Sword into just about any melee weapon, could he make it take the shape of a shield? He could have a normal Psi-Sword in one hand and "Psi-Sword-Shield" in the other.

Leafing through RUE, I don't see anything that expressly forbids it. However, the context is pretty clear that the shape is limited to typical melee weapons. Allowing it is effectively an end-run around the Psi-Shield's ISP requirement.

If I were to allow it, I'd limit it to a small shield (such as a buckler or targe).

Works for me, as long as it fit the cyberknight's personality.
Neat idea!

[Axelmania]

So they could make 3 shields?

Someone remind me why they would use a psi shield at any level than 2nd except for looks? wP shield parries aren't better than sword parries.

[Killer Cyborg]

So they could make 3 shields?

Someone remind me why they would use a psi shield at any level than 2nd except for looks? wP shield parries aren't better than sword parries.

Cover.

[Nightmartree]

So they could make 3 shields?

Someone remind me why they would use a psi shield at any level than 2nd except for looks? wP shield parries aren't better than sword parries.

hmmm...don't they stack? I always felt the shield parry bonus added onto anything else, after all its gotta be easier to parry when you have this big spot on your body you don't have to worry about

[ShadowLogan]

I'd Allow you to have a "Psi-sword" shaped as a shield and function under the shield WP, but you can't have a Psi-sword shaped like a shield AND one like a blade, the power itself doesn't work like that since its based on the users ideals/mental image. So if you somehow have a mental image that makes your Psi-sword a shield,okay I can buy it, but then you wouldn't be able to make another one as a sword cause your Psi-sword is a shield, not this other thing. Though having two shields is possible I guess, I never thought of dual wielding Psi-swords so I never considered if using it twice would get you two.

Now i'm imagining Psi-sword bladed boots or something, boxing gloves? Psi-boxer, give him a right hook, an uppercut, and that's the knockout blow! with my mind!...

Actually as of Sot4/RUE Cyber-Knights (expanding on what gb2098 said):
-at 3rd level and above can create two psi-swords (they can be identical or different)
-at 1st level all Psi-Swords (for CK) are simple shafts of light/energy that resembles a sword, it isn't until 2nd or 3rd level that they gain the ability to shape the blade into non-sword shapes and otherwise "customize" it
-Zen Combat provides WP Shield and Paired Weapons at 2nd level, though nothing prevents the CK from using an open WP/Skill slot to acquire the skill at 1st level or WP sword for that matter (I'm surprised these aren't part of standard training)

[Axelmania]

I figure most knights select sword as one if the two ancient if choice. Those who pick something else intend to change the sword at 2 or 3.

It was more confusing before SoT4 when sword was the only shape it could be. RMB a WP Sword would make sense.

Given that it only takes one melee action to make a non-sword, and since shields qualify (not ranged, no moving parts) the ISP version of the shield only seems useful if it could be thrown, left behind to jam a door, used as a snowboard or given to allies/innocents and the free version couldn't because it required staying in contact with at least 2 fingers.

[Freemage]

Just gonna note here: In Savage Rifts, C-Ks can learn to summon a Psi-Shield the same way as they summon their Sword; they can even choose to go sword-and-board if they summon the smaller version of the blade.

[Axelmania]

The ideal would be if you could hold your 2 indestructible shields and wear your MDC shield on your forearm and get 3 autoparries every attack.

[Nightmartree]

The ideal would be if you could hold your 2 indestructible shields and wear your MDC shield on your forearm and get 3 autoparries every attack.

strap one more to each leg and one on the back and i'm in, we'll call it "The Turtle"

[Alrik Vas]

So...psi-cellphone? My weapon is calling homies? ...for 1d6 mega damage?

[Nightmartree]

So...psi-cellphone? My weapon is calling homies? ...for 1d6 mega damage?

My first thought was do they like drive by and shoot the enemy when you call them? My second was a psychic drive by, my third was a psychic drive by with entities at the wheel and attacking from the vehicle as it goes by

[Axelmania]

The ideal would be if you could hold your 2 indestructible shields and wear your MDC shield on your forearm and get 3 autoparries every attack.

strap one more to each leg and one on the back and i'm in, we'll call it "The Turtle"

Only 3 more? Why stop at 6 when you can have seven

[drewkitty ~..~]

Amusing thought crossed my mind: Since an experienced Cyber-Knight can make his Psi-Sword into just about any melee weapon, could he make it take the shape of a shield? He could have a normal Psi-Sword in one hand and "Psi-Sword-Shield" in the other.

Leafing through RUE, I don't see anything that expressly forbids it. However, the context is pretty clear that the shape is limited to typical melee weapons. Allowing it is effectively an end-run around the Psi-Shield's ISP requirement.

If I were to allow it, I'd limit it to a small shield (such as a buckler or targe).

I would say that cannily, no. It does not match the spirit of the text. But I can see Gm's allowing it.
However, if I allowed it, the damage would only be 2d6 SD+ps bonus because of the concept change involved with changing it that way.

[Nightmartree]

The ideal would be if you could hold your 2 indestructible shields and wear your MDC shield on your forearm and get 3 autoparries every attack.

strap one more to each leg and one on the back and i'm in, we'll call it "The Turtle"

Only 3 more? Why stop at 6 when you can have seven

Cause pearl lost?

and I'm not using bucklers hehe, if I hold my arms in front and brace the goal is to resemble wall, and one in back that is a full body sized. Its like being the filling of a smores with MDC graham crackers. (plus I only have 7 shields and need one for my dog)

[TagsPB]

Look up Lantern Shields.....a Psi Sword/Shield version could be very useful

[Axelmania]

I would say that cannily, no. It does not match the spirit of the text. But I can see Gm's allowing it.
However, if I allowed it, the damage would only be 2d6 SD+ps bonus because of the concept change involved with changing it that way.

GMs...

Allowing non-swords already doesn't match the spirit. It is a concept change to allow psi-daggers the same damage as swords (psyscape already established they should do less) so SoT4 is already off the path. May as well allow MD bashing psi shields.

As an alternative we could wield paired psi short staffs and stack WP.

[drewkitty ~..~]

As an alternative we could wield paired psi short staffs and stack WP.

As a GM I would allow a CK to modify the 'sword' into a staff if their main weapons were staves.
However, I would not allow any stacking of two or more WP's bonuses unless there is specfice text in those WPs that allows them to stack. Because to do otherwise would be outside the text of the canon.

[Axelmania]

Inside the text, outside some readers' assumptions of spirit. Much like psi-staffs/psi-shields made by the knights since they fit parameters but lack explicit examples.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Not going to let you turn this into an argument about "Do WPs stack?" Since the answer to that is "Only if the texts of the individual WPs specifically allow it."

Therefore, will keep to the topic….
Just reread the RUE CK class and they can make other weapon forms, including a "pole", with the same damage rating as an unmodified CK Psi-Sword.
However, a shield is a shield. A tool for blocking. And is not enumerated within the CK text in RUE. So I will keep to my statement of "I would say that cannily, no." that the CK PS can not be modified into a shield form. If KS had meant for it to be available it would of been listed with the others within the text.

[Nightmartree]

Not going to let you turn this into an argument about "Do WPs stack?" Since the answer to that is "Only if the texts of the individual WPs specifically allow it."

Therefore, will keep to the topic….
Just reread the RUE CK class and they can make other weapon forms, including a "pole", with the same damage rating as an unmodified CK Psi-Sword.
However, a shield is a shield. A tool for blocking. And is not enumerated within the CK text in RUE. So I will keep to my statement of "I would say that cannily, no." that the CK PS can not be modified into a shield form. If KS had meant for it to be available it would of been listed with the others within the text.

I think the thing is that they say

they can make other weapon forms

and then we have a WP: shield

its always a GM call but I say that does make for an argument in its favor, and a shield is used to block but its not exclusively a blocking tool.

[Axelmania]

Cannily?

By your logic I could say "no sai" or "no polearms" because of no example.

Shields have a Weapon Proficiency. They are weapons.

[rem1093]

I would allow it only if the knight is a marvel fan...

I would say that cannily, no. It does not match the spirit of the text. But I can see Gm's allowing it.
However, if I allowed it, the damage would only be 2d6 SD+ps bonus because of the concept change involved with changing it that way.

GMs...

Allowing non-swords already doesn't match the spirit. It is a concept change to allow psi-daggers the same damage as swords (psyscape already established they should do less) so SoT4 is already off the path. May as well allow MD bashing psi shields.

As an alternative we could wield paired psi short staffs and stack WP.

How does using a mace or axe or a lance, not match the spirit of being a knight.

[drewkitty ~..~]

canonly….the spellcheck does not like this spelling.

stating that the list includes poles was only to state that pole were included within the examples presented.

What is a weapon?…..[sup]1[/sup]are we talking about tools made with the intent of inflicting harm to others? [sup]2[/sup]Or are we talking about any object that can be used to inflict harm upon another?
It is pretty obvious to me that this is the meaning of weapon being used in the text. Under the 1st question shields are not weapons. They are tools meant to parry and block incoming attacks.
But under the 2nd hands and feet are included within the answer. Are you saying that a CK can mold their psi-sword into a foot to do battle with just because it can be used to inflict harm?

[Nightmartree]

But under the 2nd hands and feet are included within the answer. Are you saying that a CK can mold their psi-sword into a foot to do battle with just because it can be used to inflict harm?

I actually interpereted it as allowing say a gauntlet or glove, or just an aura around the fist or legs

and if we get into whether or not a weapon is anything that can inflict harm upon someone...then yes in my opinion that is correct and as long as that's how your knight intends to use it that's how he can mold it, whether he uses a sword, a foot, a tree or a rubber chicken. Though i'd have to hear just how your knight is so sure a rubber chicken is a weapon he can inflict harm with and use against others as such (childhood trauma maybe?).

I'd consider a shield totally in the running as a weapon, I've read too many stories were its wielded as one better than any sword. I'd probably find it ridiculous for a guy to run around holding a Psi-leg in hand to hit things with, but I could 100% see them covering their leg/arms in a Psi-gauntlet or Psi-aura to enable them to do the same thing as a Psi-sword. Is it exactly right? maybe not but sure makes more sense (though maybe not as much fun) as the argument i'd have to see to allow you to wield a giant rubber chicken.

Poor Jacky grew up in the siege of 321 PA, it was an attack by the *unintelligible gargling* they were endless and undying...except for one weakness, rubber. It went through them like a hot knife through butter. Even now after all these year Jacky remembers the feel of fighting them back, the only reason they made it out was that a scavenger had found the remains of a joke shop the week before. So you can see why when she forms a weapon with her Psi powers why it may be a bit...unconventional
-Explanation of why a Balrog was slain by a 12 foot long floppy rubber Psi-Chicken

[drewkitty ~..~]

*shrugs*
I am pretty sure when the text says weapon in that it means a tool made to injure others. Not tools that are meant to defend the user. Whether that tool can be used as a weapon is not really within the concept of the power.
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I do like the idea of having a MA CK using the power to make power gloves or boots as a GM mod to the power.
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While the story was nice, it didn't follow how CKs get their PS powers.

[Nightmartree]

*shrugs*
I am pretty sure when the text says weapon in that it means a tool made to injure others. Not tools that are meant to defend the user. Whether that tool can be used as a weapon is not really within the concept of the power.
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I do like the idea of having a MA CK using the power to make power gloves or boots as a GM mod to the power.
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While the story was nice, it didn't follow how CKs get their PS powers.

If that's your view that's perfectly alright, just different from mine
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it is cool
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True but it does explain why a CK would mold or use a weapon besides a sword, and how that weapon may be something ridiculous if the person PERCEIVES it as a weapon. Since i figure the power is Psi and therefore related somewhat to mental state (at least in this case the weapons form is related to the CKs choice, and the damage is a set amount correct?). Mostly it was an example of the kinda story that would have to exist to explain why, if the GM allowed you to use anything you could reasonably present as being a weapon in your CK's mind, that they should be allowed to swing a rubber chicken for Xd6 MD per attack using a psychic power.

[Axelmania]

But under the 2nd hands and feet are included within the answer. Are you saying that a CK can mold their psi-sword into a foot to do battle with just because it can be used to inflict harm?

Feet have moving parts so this is an irrelevant example.

Rather than your two definitions, we can simply follow Palladium's lead regarding what things have a "weapon" proficiency.

[Hotrod]

I'd allow it. One additional perk of this technique would be that it could parry ranged attacks, something the regular psi-shield cannot do.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Rather than your two definitions, we can simply follow Palladium's lead regarding what things have a "weapon" proficiency.

While your suggestion sounds reasonable, it does not fit the concepts presented in the text. Even if by a word by word meaning it could be mistakenly perceived as being possible.

Perhaps you could petition KS to get an expanded explanation of the text. To maybe make clear of what tools of combat are and are not covered by the CK psi-sword reshaping.

[Axelmania]

What concepts presented in the text? Shields are weapons.

[Alrik Vas]

What concepts presented in the text? Shields are weapons.

I'll go with the ability being called psi-sword, and them talking about polearms or axes if you want to not use a sword.

There's a psychic power that produces a shield, cyberknights happen to learn it as well. I'm sure we've all heard of it.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

The sword's actual appearance will generally reflect its creator.

rifts main book page 126

The sword's actual appearance will generally reflect its creator.

rifts main book page 63
Same text in RUE page 181 but while the text isn't the same under the cyber knight,the spirit of the text is.
So a cyber knight who lives like a warrior monk type wanted a staff psi sword, or in combat use one with a shield staff psi sword, or morning star, mace, frail or any of non sword type melee weapons as long as they have a w.p. for it, then I would allow it as a gm.

[Freemage]

Another option. Let the character summon a 'shield', and use it as a weapon under WP Shield.... but not in a shield-fashion. No defensive advantages whatsoever. The fact that the mundane version grants such benefits has nothing to do with the psychic construct that is being used as a manifestation of the CK's desire to create a weapon.

[Alrik Vas]

Another option. Let the character summon a 'shield', and use it as a weapon under WP Shield.... but not in a shield-fashion. No defensive advantages whatsoever. The fact that the mundane version grants such benefits has nothing to do with the psychic construct that is being used as a manifestation of the CK's desire to create a weapon.

I think that's the only notion I agree with so far that deviates from my own thoughts.

[Axelmania]

The examples of what you can make are not exhaustive. It says any weapon without moving parts. I could make a psi-trident or psi-lance if I wanted. Psi pike might have longest range. Doesn't exactly give length limits.

[rem1093]

Was thinking about this and something came to me. Instead of changing the weapon into a shield why not just change the psi-shield like they did with the normal psi-weapon. Even the non-psi, knight gets the shield. Haveing it gain ability's like, change size and shape (give it spikes, horns, a crest, or go from a buckler to a tower), block ranged attacks, cut cost, ext., as it levels.

[Axelmania]

I want a psi sword 48 feet long http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/wor ... est-sword-

Anyone recall if they were weightless?