Monster kingdom idea -non evil

[SycophantNagaraja]

So I've been kicking around an idea to form a monster/dbee kingdom with refugees from the Calgary Rift (ex-minions, slaves, political dissidents). Probably not a big kingdom given the difficulties I'd imagine some of them would have actually escaping if that was something they desired. What I'm having difficulty sussing out are the types of monsters might populate it. Open to ideas but initially I'm thinking a giant of some kind would be the leader (probably a selfish alignment). I was going to throw in some disenfranchised orcs and goblins and maybe a troll (all probably from the Calgary area). I was thinking probably some simvan but they are a main antagonist/minions for the main antagonist so I didn't want to overuse them. Also wanting to avoid the whole gargoyle thing because that's a focus of Europe. And I'm wanting to avoid demons/infernal types.

If all goes well they may wind up being an uneasy trading partner to the PCs kingdom and occasional source of drama but otherwise content to leave the players alone as there are bigger problems currently in the game.

[taalismn]

Go for it...if you can get so many disparate species with few physical commonalities able to work together and work together EFFECTIVELY, all the more power to you.
Though these folks are going to be facing problems from both their canonical kin and scared paranoid good (or at least 'looking out for our own hides first') sorts.

And there's problems like:
Giant Spider: (to orc) "There's a little issue of my species normally regarding yours as FOOD."

[SycophantNagaraja]

Go for it...if you can get so many disparate species with few physical commonalities able to work together and work together EFFECTIVELY, all the more power to you.
Though these folks are going to be facing problems from both their canonical kin and scared paranoid good (or at least 'looking out for our own hides first') sorts.

And there's problems like:
Giant Spider: (to orc) "There's a little issue of my species normally regarding yours as FOOD."

I hadn't planned on using spiders (I have two players deathly afraid of them and I'd be beaten for it ). But that was going to be a focus behind the scenes. Obviously they don't see things like much of their kin, at least in the usual sense. Which is why they eventually start to slowly break their isolationism. The need for trade from potential towns willing to trade (which would obviously be a fun variant too "wait... what?!" )

[taalismn]

Having beings that can normally be considered to be macroparasites(need to drink blood/life energy/extreme emotions) as citizens can be fun for the issues it raises. Or just beings that get buzzed-high off emotional states like fear or hate, so those who have decided to eschew those habits have to prove that they're not going to flip out and give in to temptation one day. THink REALLY monstrous beasties like Neuron Beasts or Witchlings...GOOD examples of those would be rarer than hens' teeth, and might suggest some nasty villains who are tracking them(gang of Neuron Beasts tracking an 'aberrant' member for example).
Sure, even if the source material sez a particular monster can't be good-aligned, you can make the case that the PC/NPC is a statistical freak, a Thoth-level improbability that nevertheless exists, or that all other similar specimens have been killed off by their brethren before any outsiders ever knew about them. The rarer the monster that's gone good, the meaner and nastier the hunting party you can make that's following them, and decides to take out the freak's friends to bury the evidence or to torture the fugitive(s) into giving themselves up.

Antagonistic enough?

[Alrik Vas]

There are plenty of d-bee races in rifts to throw in here. Though if you're looking for things that aren't humans with a different face (though there are some real characters among the "human looking" d-bees) you could always go with the CB1, has a ton of monstrous, intelligent creatures in there.

[SereneTsunami]

Adding in refugees from Tolkeen is a easy way to get some weird combinations of D-Bees together.

I like the idea of a fade town that has a normal town built up around it, and they trade with each other whenever the fade town pops back into place.

I think that the leader of a "Monster town" would have to be strong to hold all the different races toegether. The internal politics would be fun to detail.

[J_cobbers]

I think there's an in game precedent kinda if you look at Lazlo. All non-evil being are welcome, heck one of they guys running it, Plato, is a dragon.

[SolCannibal]

One way to explain a big number of refugees from the Calgary Rift staying together to make a kingdom would be the classic slave rebellion/prison break happening amidst the disorder/workload overload of the Minion War coming in full to Rifts Earth - damn, one or more group of heroes & rogues (or infernal rivals) could SPARK exactly such an incident to cause trouble to whatever infernal powers control the Calgary kingdom.

For a giant i would be tempted to go with either a Titan from Palladium or a Jotan TW, both may be found in the Conversion Book.

For the other monsters i would probably use some critters from Conversion & Sourcebook, mixed with some made-up races using the quick roll monsters tables from pages 249-252 of the RMB. Using the "Earth Mutant, or D-Bee, or alien that is humanoid but has unusual features." sub-table in page 18 of the RMB, to tweak the appearances of the book monsters a little could be fun too, i guess.

[Blue_Lion]

One way to explain a big number of refugees from the Calgary Rift staying together to make a kingdom would be the classic slave rebellion/prison break happening amidst the disorder/workload overload of the Minion War coming in full to Rifts Earth - damn, one or more group of heroes & rogues (or infernal rivals) could SPARK exactly such an incident to cause trouble to whatever infernal powers control the Calgary kingdom.

For a giant i would be tempted to go with either a Titan from Palladium or a Jotan TW, both may be found in the Conversion Book.

For the other monsters i would probably use some critters from Conversion & Sourcebook, mixed with some made-up races using the quick roll monsters tables from pages 249-252 of the RMB. Using the "Earth Mutant, or D-Bee, or alien that is humanoid but has unusual features." sub-table in page 18 of the RMB, to tweak the appearances of the book monsters a little could be fun too, i guess.

I could see Larson brigade using agents to engineer something like that.

[SolCannibal]

One way to explain a big number of refugees from the Calgary Rift staying together to make a kingdom would be the classic slave rebellion/prison break happening amidst the disorder/workload overload of the Minion War coming in full to Rifts Earth - damn, one or more group of heroes & rogues (or infernal rivals) could SPARK exactly such an incident to cause trouble to whatever infernal powers control the Calgary kingdom.

I could see Larson brigade using agents to engineer something like that.

True, Larsen might be up for that kind of trick indeed - Crow's Commandoes could be an even better fit for this kind of tactic. Braddock's Bad Boys might work too, though i tend to imagine Braddock as a more straightforward, meat-&-potatoes kind of strategist than a guerrilla, attrition and sabotage kind of guy.

Or for a very cruel twist, the Shadow Warriors, the merc company that are in fact a Splugorth front, helped liberate them, to mess with the infernal threat and stealthily set up a monster kingdom of their own to prop up and play with in the future. The company acting as a sort of patron/ally of the city while subtly guiding towards becoming a puppet state/front for the atlanteans could make for a very interesting source of intrigue, i guess

One book the OP, based on its comments about Gargoyles & Simvan, might be better off avoiding is Sourcebook 3: Mindwerks, as its wholy about monsters, D-Bees and organizations that gravitate around the NGR x Gargoyle Empire's sphere of influence.

OP, do you have a preference for book races or would homebrewed stuff be fine with you too? This thread here has a bit of fun stuff of both types if one is looking for some variety to mine.

[Blue_Lion]

One way to explain a big number of refugees from the Calgary Rift staying together to make a kingdom would be the classic slave rebellion/prison break happening amidst the disorder/workload overload of the Minion War coming in full to Rifts Earth - damn, one or more group of heroes & rogues (or infernal rivals) could SPARK exactly such an incident to cause trouble to whatever infernal powers control the Calgary kingdom.

I could see Larson brigade using agents to engineer something like that.

True, Larsen might be up for that kind of trick indeed - Crow's Commandoes could be an even better fit for this kind of tactic. Braddock's Bad Boys might work too, though i tend to imagine Braddock as a more straightforward, meat-&-potatoes kind of strategist than a guerrilla, attrition and sabotage kind of guy.

Or for a very cruel twist, the Shadow Warriors, the merc compaany that are in fact a Splugorth front, helped liberate them, to mess with the infernal threat and stealthily set up a monster kingdom of their own to prop up and play with in the future. The company acting as a sort of patron/ally of the city while subtly guiding towards becoming a puppet state/front for the atlanteans could make for a very interesting source of intrigue, i guess

One book the OP, based on its comments about Gargoyles & Simvan, i guess might prefer to avoid is Sourcebook 3: Mindwerks, as its wholy about monsters, D-Bees and organizations that gravitate around the NGR x Gargoyle Empire's sphere of influence.

OP, do you have a preference for book races or would homebrewed stuff be fine with you too? This thread here has a bit of fun stuff of both types if one is looking for some variety to mine.

Larson was at the rift to prepare for the minion war spill over in the book after math. That is why I said them, they are canonically involved before most known powers.

[SolCannibal]

One way to explain a big number of refugees from the Calgary Rift staying together to make a kingdom would be the classic slave rebellion/prison break happening amidst the disorder/workload overload of the Minion War coming in full to Rifts Earth - damn, one or more group of heroes & rogues (or infernal rivals) could SPARK exactly such an incident to cause trouble to whatever infernal powers control the Calgary kingdom.

I could see Larson brigade using agents to engineer something like that.

True, Larsen might be up for that kind of trick indeed - Crow's Commandoes could be an even better fit for this kind of tactic. Braddock's Bad Boys might work too, though i tend to imagine Braddock as a more straightforward, meat-&-potatoes kind of strategist than a guerrilla, attrition and sabotage kind of guy.

Or for a very cruel twist, the Shadow Warriors, the merc compaany that are in fact a Splugorth front, helped liberate them, to mess with the infernal threat and stealthily set up a monster kingdom of their own to prop up and play with in the future. The company acting as a sort of patron/ally of the city while subtly guiding towards becoming a puppet state/front for the atlanteans could make for a very interesting source of intrigue, i guess

One book the OP, based on its comments about Gargoyles & Simvan, i guess might prefer to avoid is Sourcebook 3: Mindwerks, as its wholy about monsters, D-Bees and organizations that gravitate around the NGR x Gargoyle Empire's sphere of influence.

OP, do you have a preference for book races or would homebrewed stuff be fine with you too? This thread here has a bit of fun stuff of both types if one is looking for some variety to mine.

Larson was at the rift to prepare for the minion war spill over in the book after math. That is why I said them, they are canonically involved before most known powers.

Very good to know Lion, i really didn't remember that. But then i have only skimmed through Megaverse in Flames at most.

Things could be thorny for the CS propaganda-wise depending on the Brigade's degree of involvement with this refugee kingdom, due to Larsen's not quite a betrayer/enemy of humanity status even among CS citizenry.

[Blue_Lion]

One way to explain a big number of refugees from the Calgary Rift staying together to make a kingdom would be the classic slave rebellion/prison break happening amidst the disorder/workload overload of the Minion War coming in full to Rifts Earth - damn, one or more group of heroes & rogues (or infernal rivals) could SPARK exactly such an incident to cause trouble to whatever infernal powers control the Calgary kingdom.

I could see Larson brigade using agents to engineer something like that.

True, Larsen might be up for that kind of trick indeed - Crow's Commandoes could be an even better fit for this kind of tactic. Braddock's Bad Boys might work too, though i tend to imagine Braddock as a more straightforward, meat-&-potatoes kind of strategist than a guerrilla, attrition and sabotage kind of guy.

Or for a very cruel twist, the Shadow Warriors, the merc compaany that are in fact a Splugorth front, helped liberate them, to mess with the infernal threat and stealthily set up a monster kingdom of their own to prop up and play with in the future. The company acting as a sort of patron/ally of the city while subtly guiding towards becoming a puppet state/front for the atlanteans could make for a very interesting source of intrigue, i guess

One book the OP, based on its comments about Gargoyles & Simvan, i guess might prefer to avoid is Sourcebook 3: Mindwerks, as its wholy about monsters, D-Bees and organizations that gravitate around the NGR x Gargoyle Empire's sphere of influence.

OP, do you have a preference for book races or would homebrewed stuff be fine with you too? This thread here has a bit of fun stuff of both types if one is looking for some variety to mine.

Larson was at the rift to prepare for the minion war spill over in the book after math. That is why I said them, they are canonically involved before most known powers.

Very good to know Lion, i really didn't remember that. But then i have only skimmed through Megaverse in Flames at most.

Things could be thorny for the CS propaganda-wise depending on the Brigade's degree of involvement with this refugee kingdom, due to Larsen's not quite a betrayer/enemy of humanity status even among CS citizenry.

It was not in magaverse in flames, it was where he was when the CS took Tolkeen(if not the whole war). So when the minion war came to earth he was already waiting at the Calgary rift.

[SolCannibal]

Yes, true, it was one of the main factors on why Larsen - technically - did not take sides on the War on Tolkeen. Had completely forgotten that.

[Blue_Lion]

Yes, true, it was one of the main factors on why Larsen - technically - didi not take sides on the War on Tolkeen. Had completely forgotten that.

And makes him and the tundra rangers some of the first people fighting the minion war on earth. That would place him in a location to do it at a time when man power was short, and guerilla tactics would be needed.

[SolCannibal]

Right people at the right time indeed. Larsen as an ally/patron of a burgeoning city-state/refugee camp in the aftermath of dealing with the infernal intrusions on Rifts Earth could be interesting indeed as a set-up.

Also, the degree of participation of those refugees/survivors in combating the threat of either of the two groups of infernal invaders could influence how much tolerance/goodwill they receive on the part of the local powers that be throughout and after the conflict.

[Blue_Lion]

Right people at the right time indeed. Larsen as an ally/patron of a burgeoning city-state/refugee camp in the aftermath of dealing with the infernal intrusions on Rifts Earth could be interesting indeed as a set-up.

Also, the degree of participation of those refugees/survivors in combating the threat of either of the two groups of infernal invaders could influence how much tolerance/goodwill they receive on the part of the local powers that be throughout and after the conflict.

Weaving a story from the threads you have is important skill for GMs.

[SolCannibal]

OP, you spoke about a kingdom of the PCs and of the Simvan as antagonists or at least minions of a major antagonist in the game.
Care to tell us more on those subjects? It might help bring up some interesting ideas, who knows.

[Hell knight]

So I've been kicking around an idea to form a monster/dbee kingdom with refugees from the Calgary Rift (ex-minions, slaves, political dissidents). Probably not a big kingdom given the difficulties I'd imagine some of them would have actually escaping if that was something they desired. What I'm having difficulty sussing out are the types of monsters might populate it. Open to ideas but initially I'm thinking a giant of some kind would be the leader (probably a selfish alignment). I was going to throw in some disenfranchised orcs and goblins and maybe a troll (all probably from the Calgary area). I was thinking probably some simvan but they are a main antagonist/minions for the main antagonist so I didn't want to overuse them. Also wanting to avoid the whole gargoyle thing because that's a focus of Europe. And I'm wanting to avoid demons/infernal types.

If all goes well they may wind up being an uneasy trading partner to the PCs kingdom and occasional source of drama but otherwise content to leave the players alone as there are bigger problems currently in the game.

Great idea i my self been making a kingdom of mostly mutant humans .

[SolCannibal]

I sort of started sketching a bunch of "ghettos" of D-bees and monsters, organized by world/dimension and race, through a random roll or two.

Still getting the hang of how it ends up, as the rolls kind of got the better of me and now i have 40-60 "variant critters" races (sort of based on mixing some bits from the Conversion Book) to sort out and organize.

[Axelmania]

I could see Dweomer having an outpost around Calgary to scout potential citizens. But there would definitely be lots of evil ones!

[SolCannibal]

I could see Dweomer having an outpost around Calgary to scout potential citizens. But there would definitely be lots of evil ones!

Hundred of miles or more away from their or the FoM's territory? Strange proposition it seems to me, specially considering Dweomer tends to be more isolated/self-contained in relation to other groups that inhabit the Magic Zone. That kind of espionage/recruitment gig doesn't really sound like their style to me.

Now Magestar, that is lead by a number of more compassionate/idealist breakaways from Dweomer, them i could see, though something sneakier than their usual portrayal, actually trying to infiltrate Calgary and set up some sort of "railroad underground"/refugee relocation program of sorts.

[Axelmania]

Dweomer has more resources to work with than Magestar. Dan Ironforge, being 6th level, would've already learned all 15th level spells when he reached 5th level, so he could certainly cast the Circle of Travel ritual (Book of Magic 152) but this does require the same mage to travel to both locations he wants to connect, and I don't know if Dan would want to risk traveling to calgary in person, especially when Magestar needs him. More than likely he instead had already created a CoT in Dweomer before leaving, and made a corresponding circle in Magestar so that he could easily go home to fetch supplies, allow for easy trade or military reinforcement/evacuation, etc.

Dweomer probably has a decent amount of 5th+level High Magi who aren't involved in city leadership who could more easily go on faked soujourns for the purposes of setting up hidden Circles of Travel connecting to Dweomer. These could be to secure locations so that any surprise interloping mages (only shifters, ley line walkers and temporal raiders can activate the circle if they are not the creator) can be stopped from revealing the city's location.

Another candidate we should consider is described right after: Stormspire. K'zaa knows all spells 1-15, and the population is 0.25% (1 in 400) High Magi. 18,072 residents means this is 45 high magi working for him, if even 1 is at least 5th level that'd be 1 other mage besides K'zaa himself who could make a Circle of Travel at outposts around the Calgary Rift allowing civil monsters to quickly teleport to Stormspire and get geared up.

The CS would probably want to hunt these down, but I don't know if they would radiate magic when not activated.

Dunscon / City of Brass probably does this too.

30 PPE is very cheap for the creator to re-active portals, and the 60 PPE needed for shifter/raider/walker (sorry, temporal wizards, you're not good enough) escorts is also pretty feasible, since you could easily refuel once you're back at base, or suck PPE from the nearby leylines.