Bionic Systems: AED Impant?

[Dustin Fireblade]

Player is thinking of adding a AED into his bionic arm. It's already loaded with the "Medical Sensor Hand" and he thought this would be a good enhancement. I don't believe anything like that currently exists? If not I was thinking of basing it somewhat on a stun gun in terms of number of shocks delivered per energy clip. Thoughts?

[Slight001]

AED? my acronym database just pulled 'huh?' in response...

[eliakon]

If your looking at some sort of stunner in a hand.
There is the Electro-Stun Weapon implant in N&SS for bionic hands.
It lets you stun people by touch (electrical contacts) and 8 charges.
If that isn't quite what you want it might be a good starting point.

[taalismn]

AED? my acronym database just pulled 'huh?' in response...

Automated External Defibrillator
He wants to be able to shock people back into proper heartbeat patterns.

Yeah, I'd go with the modified tazer option.

[Slight001]

AED? my acronym database just pulled 'huh?' in response...

Automated External Defibrillator

Interesting.

I can see the problem then. Palladium's tech concepts are based on 1980's tech... if even that. Honestly with the technology needed to make bionics work it should be rather easy to rig up.

[eliakon]

AED? my acronym database just pulled 'huh?' in response...

Automated External Defibrillator

Interesting.

I can see the problem then. Palladium's tech concepts are based on 1980's tech... if even that. Honestly with the technology needed to make bionics work it should be rather easy to rig up.

My thoughts?
If it is being used for a purely medical purpose? Then I would say it should get at least two or three times as many 'shots' as a stunner. In all honesty... considering the amount of energy in an E-clip I would say the energy used in an AED would be pretty trivial, and for the purpose it is for can probably be more or less ignored.
Especially as it would, IMHO encourage this sort of gaming which I would, as a GM want to encourage instead of yet more guns.
The only time I would track charges is if they wanted to also have it be able to stun people.
In that case I would use the Electro-Stun weapon in N&SS which is basically this (two metallic contacts that run an electric current through the person stunning them...)

[glitterboy2098]

wouldn't you need two bionic hands for a defib? you need to feed the current through two paddles at very specific positions, if it is to work. and a single hand wouldn't be able to stretch far enough top lace the contacts correctly, even if the contact points are small enough to fit into fingers (i'm not sure you can do it that small without harming a patient by pumping too much energy over a small area)

[Dustin Fireblade]

wouldn't you need two bionic hands for a defib? you need to feed the current through two paddles at very specific positions, if it is to work. and a single hand wouldn't be able to stretch far enough top lace the contacts correctly, even if the contact points are small enough to fit into fingers (i'm not sure you can do it that small without harming a patient by pumping too much energy over a small area)

Yes, current AED's have two 'paddles' to allow a current between the two and the heart in the middle. I and the player know this quite well, but was basically willing to overlook that requirement in favor of a single hand system because 'super-science'

[Dustin Fireblade]

My thoughts?
If it is being used for a purely medical purpose? Then I would say it should get at least two or three times as many 'shots' as a stunner. In all honesty... considering the amount of energy in an E-clip I would say the energy used in an AED would be pretty trivial, and for the purpose it is for can probably be more or less ignored.
Especially as it would, IMHO encourage this sort of gaming which I would, as a GM want to encourage instead of yet more guns.
The only time I would track charges is if they wanted to also have it be able to stun people.
In that case I would use the Electro-Stun weapon in N&SS which is basically this (two metallic contacts that run an electric current through the person stunning them...)

Yeah I don't know that it would be really needed to track the number of shots to be honest, given the unlikely number of times it would be used. Probably will end up doing as you mention, at least twice as manner as a standard stunner.

[boring7]

wouldn't you need two bionic hands for a defib? you need to feed the current through two paddles at very specific positions, if it is to work. and a single hand wouldn't be able to stretch far enough top lace the contacts correctly, even if the contact points are small enough to fit into fingers (i'm not sure you can do it that small without harming a patient by pumping too much energy over a small area)

Yes, current AED's have two 'paddles' to allow a current between the two and the heart in the middle. I and the player know this quite well, but was basically willing to overlook that requirement in favor of a single hand system because 'super-science'

Yeah. I mean this is rifts, having the thumb on a tentacle-like extension that "unspools" up to 5 feet and can run enough voltage (over enough of a distance) to shock-start an elephant heart is par for the course.

Probably ought to be able to do a tesla-arc between pinky and thumb just for the showmanship/intimidation factor. Might even add "can reliably knock a person (who was already tied-up/helpless) unconscious in a single go" with perfectly-calibrated shock to the nervous system "because super-science."

[drewkitty ~..~]

I agree with the GB that a defibrillator would need to be is two hands due to the physics of how a defibrillator works.

Tazer-like stunner….would increase the cost by +30% for sdc stunner, and double for able to stun MDC beings. With the char having to 'opt into' using the mdc setting of the stunner, as a safety feature

[masslegion]

I hope someone other than the 'borg performs the CPR between AED delivered shocks on a SDC being. One failed roll for some kind of advance pull punch roll and... "Well the good news, their heart is working again. The bad news the sternum/ribs fractured, pierced and collapsed the lung/s, or some other internal injury/bleeding."

In this case I hope they place their non-bionic hand on the bottom to get enough force with both hands for CPR, but not too much from a bionic limb using the normal hand as a pressure gauge. So minor damage could still be done that leads to more internal injuries, especially if they don't have a paramedics or similar skill. Especially if this arm is relatively new the whole pirate joke with the punch line of how he got the eye-patch, " a bird pooped in my eye..... Arghhh, but that was meh first day wit' me hook"

[taalismn]

Just don't get suckered into using it on a Power Leech...those little ####ers will fake a cardio event just to get somebody pumping current into them. It's just when they start moaning ecstatically that you realize you're not working on a human-mutant Psi-X.

[kaid]

wouldn't you need two bionic hands for a defib? you need to feed the current through two paddles at very specific positions, if it is to work. and a single hand wouldn't be able to stretch far enough top lace the contacts correctly, even if the contact points are small enough to fit into fingers (i'm not sure you can do it that small without harming a patient by pumping too much energy over a small area)

Yes, current AED's have two 'paddles' to allow a current between the two and the heart in the middle. I and the player know this quite well, but was basically willing to overlook that requirement in favor of a single hand system because 'super-science'

Or just have cable with a pad on it that can extend/retract from the arm so you can place the contacts as needed. Would not need to be very big so would be pretty easy to work into a bionic hand.

[Voodoolaw]

AED? my acronym database just pulled 'huh?' in response...

Automated External Defibrillator

Interesting.

I can see the problem then. Palladium's tech concepts are based on 1980's tech... if even that. Honestly with the technology needed to make bionics work it should be rather easy to rig up.

My thoughts?
If it is being used for a purely medical purpose? Then I would say it should get at least two or three times as many 'shots' as a stunner. In all honesty... considering the amount of energy in an E-clip I would say the energy used in an AED would be pretty trivial, and for the purpose it is for can probably be more or less ignored.
Especially as it would, IMHO encourage this sort of gaming which I would, as a GM want to encourage instead of yet more guns.
The only time I would track charges is if they wanted to also have it be able to stun people.
In that case I would use the Electro-Stun weapon in N&SS which is basically this (two metallic contacts that run an electric current through the person stunning them...)

You should be right. Depending on rhythm, people are shocked at anywhere from 50 to 360 or 400 joules - usually 200, 300, or 360. 1 joule is equal to one watt over one second, or something close. Have to imagine an E-clip holds exponentially larger stores of energy. I kind of wonder if it should even require a power source outside of what powers the arm, assuming complete replacement of the extremity.

[Killer Cyborg]

I can see the problem then. Palladium's tech concepts are based on 1980's tech... if even that.

Hm.
Right... like steampunk, only in a different era.
Ataripunk?
Coalpunk?
Applepunk?
Reaganpunk...?

[Slight001]

I can see the problem then. Palladium's tech concepts are based on 1980's tech... if even that.

Hm.
Right... like steampunk, only in a different era.
Ataripunk?
Coalpunk?
Applepunk?
Reaganpunk...?

Reaganpunk... lol. The republicans preferred form of technology... it works despite all logical evidence that it shouldn't... kind of reminds me of Warhammer 40k's Ork race.

Warning: Let's leave political comments out of the Rifts forum. ~ Mack

On a more serious note another term would be retro future... basically the future as imagined by those in the past. Fallout is a fair example of this genre.

[Library Ogre]

Another option to suggest to him: an RMK/IRMSS system in the arm.

[Killer Cyborg]

On a more serious note another term would be retro future... basically the future as imagined by those in the past. Fallout is a fair example of this genre.

[Blue_Lion]

wouldn't you need two bionic hands for a defib? you need to feed the current through two paddles at very specific positions, if it is to work. and a single hand wouldn't be able to stretch far enough top lace the contacts correctly, even if the contact points are small enough to fit into fingers (i'm not sure you can do it that small without harming a patient by pumping too much energy over a small area)

Unless like the device it is mimicking it two sticky tabs with a wire that are housed in the hand/arm with the medical hand use to detect the need.

Hospital and ambulances have manual ED with shock paddles, the AED (that I trained on) have leads attached to sticky tabs that you attack the person.

[ShadowLogan]

Player is thinking of adding a AED into his bionic arm. It's already loaded with the "Medical Sensor Hand" and he thought this would be a good enhancement. I don't believe anything like that currently exists? If not I was thinking of basing it somewhat on a stun gun in terms of number of shocks delivered per energy clip. Thoughts?

As others have stated, there isn't anything for this purpose w/stats. There are a few stun weapon implants though (5 examples are: Neural Mace & Electric Rod (B-SBpg96), Sitnger Appendage & Shock Shield (B-SB pg93) and Stun Blaster (B-SB pg108).

Providing one to a borg is simple enough (mechanics wise is another matter), just use a suitable sized storage compartment (Bionic SB pg90/RMB pg241) that houses such a device. Unfortunately it will have to go into either the leg or chest (per text) technically, but there are "concealed compartments" in the arms for devices so you might be able to get it that way at your/GM's discretion. You can even avoid using an Eclip to power the device, and just go with a separate battery system (base stats on real world system, maybe with an increase to reflect advances in battery tech) or hook it into the 'borgs power system (for unlimited payload).