Robotech gone.

Alpha 11 · Unread post by **Alpha 11** » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:55 pm

Well, if you haven't seen the lasted RTT update, Palladium has last the licence to Robotech, again.

tobefrnk · Unread post by **tobefrnk** » Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:04 pm

Guess this would explain the silence on Ghost Fleet. Sad.

kennethk · Unread post by **kennethk** » Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:44 pm

Without going into the RTT debacle, I am curious if Harmony Gold has given Palladium a deadline for selling all Robotech products.

NukeBass · Unread post by **NukeBass** » Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:59 pm

Based on the last paragraph of the RTT update 218, they have until the end of March to liquidate everything. My older brother and I are talking about trying to startup a game soon and I was hoping the Ghost Fleet and that long promised book of ships would come out in the near future. That will never happen, but it does sound like they are required to stop selling the pdfs on DriveThru RPG too, so hopefully those will go on sale before the drop dead date.

kennethk · Unread post by **kennethk** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:25 am

I am just needing the New Generation and Genesis Pits to have all the books. I think we should hear in the next week or so how they are planning to liquidate their remaining stock. While its a shame they are losing the license, if the sale is nice enough, I may pick up the Gold Edition version as well

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:43 am

Damn. I should have expected this.
Well, yet another piece of my happy childhood drops away and is lost....

bielmic · Unread post by **bielmic** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:53 am

tobefrnk wrote:Guess this would explain the silence on Ghost Fleet. Sad.

That would explain the silence on Ghost Fleet for maybe the last 6 months but not the years since it was announced.

taichara · Unread post by **taichara** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:24 am

bielmic wrote:
tobefrnk wrote:Guess this would explain the silence on Ghost Fleet. Sad.

That would explain the silence on Ghost Fleet for maybe the last 6 months but not the years since it was announced.

The Ghost Fleet Saga idea was only tossed around/confirmed in 2017 or so ...?

Shotgun Jolly · Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:19 am

So, I guess these forums here will be locked or deleted. Seeing the licence is being lost?

glitterboy2098 · Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:34 am

the last time they lost it, they kept the forums open. i can't imagine it'll be lost this time. heck, the forums right now include macross II, and that one ended nearly two decades ago.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:22 pm

Shotgun Jolly wrote:So, I guess these forums here will be locked or deleted. Seeing the licence is being lost?

Nah....we were bandying around ideas like crazy here for decades before the license came back. We just won't be able to expect any official new material. Which is a shame, because I REALLY wanted to see what they'd do with the Southern Cross ships and I was rather hoping for bleed-back over to the RPG of new material from the board game.
HG wants to do anything with the franchise? They shouldn't try to clamp down on the pockets of active fandom still working.

DocTom · Unread post by **DocTom** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:53 pm

Sadness

Tiree · Unread post by **Tiree** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:31 pm

I think it was expected due to the outcome of RRT

Let's see, here are some of the biggest fails of Robotech, the 2nd coming...

Manga - Even though I was not an initial supporter of this style. I have to admit, I was hooked, and wanted to see the rest of the line to continue with this format. But I was a minority, and the books moved to normal size - after 3 Manga Editions.

Change in Writers - This is one of those 'quasi negatives' in my book. Writers and artists should be interchangeable when your talking RPG's. But in this instance it was more of a slash and burn.

Rules Update - Some could say that the rules were updated. Some could say they weren't done fully enough. Others might say it wasn't done at all. I fall into the camp that TSC updated the rules somewhat. But by Masters character creation grew leaps and bounds. The only downfall was changing writers, and the progress that was made thrown out.

RRT - this was a boondoggle from the get go. You could see the handwriting on the wall when they went after this Kickstarter Project. I'm not a Mini's rpg player, so it was one of the reasons why I never backed it But I was watching it like a train wreck in slow motion. I just couldn't keep my eyes off of it.

There were so many things that went haywire with RRT, it was the proverbial nail in the coffin. You had part-count-gate, then mini-to-con-not-to-backers-gate, wave-2-vaporware, no convention support. It was geared as collectable mini's, with an entry price way too high for any pickup gamer.

And this is just my perspective from an outside observer. I'm sure there are more reasons as well.

I remember calling PB and talking to Alex on two separate occasions. The first to remind them that the New Generation book should have the missing material that was placed in the Deluxe version of Shadow Chronicles in the book. The second to tell him that they shouldn't reprint it, since they decided to go full size and drop the manga line. Stop the page count bloat of books through copy/paste!

glitterboy2098 · Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:49 pm

one positive that might come out of this is that with the loss of the license, Palladium may open up these forums for the posting of actual game stats again. they put a ban on it after getting the license back, due to HG's restrictions. without that license the restrictions should no longer apply.

though we'll obviously need to talk to the Mods and PB after the end of March to be sure.

mech798 · Unread post by **mech798** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:24 am

So this will leave us with the not-so-great comic and... what?

devillin · Unread post by **devillin** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:13 am

I wonder if we could get the raw pdf of Ghost Fleet Saga. Since it can't be released for money any more.

glitterboy2098 · Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:13 am

i'm pretty sure it wasn't complete enough for that.

Tiree · Unread post by **Tiree** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:57 pm

Yeah, Jason Marker turned in Marines too, and instead we got a different book.

ShadowLogan · Unread post by **ShadowLogan** » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:17 pm

glitterboy2098 wrote:one positive that might come out of this is that with the loss of the license, Palladium may open up these forums for the posting of actual game stats again. they put a ban on it after getting the license back, due to HG's restrictions. without that license the restrictions should no longer apply.

though we'll obviously need to talk to the Mods and PB after the end of March to be sure.

Well the standard restrictions would still apply no converting IPs I would suspect. So we probably couldn't post game stats for the uncovered mecha (like the Carpenter Fighter, the Wolf Fighter, Alpha/Shadow Drone, Super Shadow Fighters, etc) in Robotech itself.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:16 pm

ShadowLogan wrote:[
Well the standard restrictions would still apply no converting IPs I would suspect. So we probably couldn't post game stats for the uncovered mecha (like the Carpenter Fighter, the Wolf Fighter, Alpha/Shadow Drone, Super Shadow Fighters, etc) in Robotech itself.

Damn it, you had to remind me of all the peripheral fun stuff we'll now never see officially statted out!
Along with the Southern Cross ships, particle beam-packing Quadranos,....etc, etc.... :nh:

Alpha 11 · Unread post by **Alpha 11** » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:31 am

taalismn wrote:
ShadowLogan wrote:[
Well the standard restrictions would still apply no converting IPs I would suspect. So we probably couldn't post game stats for the uncovered mecha (like the Carpenter Fighter, the Wolf Fighter, Alpha/Shadow Drone, Super Shadow Fighters, etc) in Robotech itself.

Damn it, you had to remind me of all the peripheral fun stuff we'll now never see officially statted out!
Along with the Southern Cross ships, particle beam-packing Quadranos,....etc, etc....

We could always do them up "behind the sceans" as it were.

ShadowLogan · Unread post by **ShadowLogan** » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:01 pm

Alpha 11 wrote:
taalismn wrote:
ShadowLogan wrote:[
Well the standard restrictions would still apply no converting IPs I would suspect. So we probably couldn't post game stats for the uncovered mecha (like the Carpenter Fighter, the Wolf Fighter, Alpha/Shadow Drone, Super Shadow Fighters, etc) in Robotech itself.

Damn it, you had to remind me of all the peripheral fun stuff we'll now never see officially statted out!
Along with the Southern Cross ships, particle beam-packing Quadranos,....etc, etc....

We could always do them up "behind the sceans" as it were.

You mean you haven't been? :?:

Rabid Southern Cross Fan · Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:04 pm

I want to be bluntly honest: it sucks for Kevin and Co. and I feel bad, because I helped to push this through years ago with Tom Bateman when he was still at Harmony Gold. Maybe this is for the best, though. Palladium should concentrate on the Rifts IP because there simply isn't enough staff to cover Robotech and give it the attention to detail it needs/deserves.

Tiree wrote:Yeah, Jason Marker turned in Marines too, and instead we got a different book.

Not just that, but Tommy Yune intentionally scuttled canon material that SHOULD have gone into The New Generation sourcebook and UEEF Marines sourcebooks. Namely the MOSPEADA Armo-Soldiers (including the Jackal which was actually IN THE SHOW) and updated art for the classic REF Battloids from The Sentinels (one of which, the MAC II actually appeared in Robotech: Love, Live, Alive). I put a good chunk of the blame for this drekfest where it squarely belongs: Harmony Gold. Instead of us getting an RPG that was as close to the Tv series as humanly possible, we got a hacked together mess that contradicted itself over and over again. Instead of 1 massive rulebook ala Rifts that covered all the basic OCCs/MOSs and some mecha/vehicles from each of the 3 eras (which I and a bunch of others suggested) we again got a chopped up, fragmented badly pieced together RPG. Way too many errors that made absolutely zero sense were included in the game, due in part to the boneheads at HG who couldn't care less if they made plot holes the size of galaxies.

Of course, there is plenty of blame to go onto the shoulders of Palladium. EVERY SINGLE FIRST PRINTING OF EACH BOOK HAD A MASSIVE LIST OF ERRATA THAT WAS IGNORED! Literally, I cannot fathom WHY we were ignored. The problems in the text simply COMPOUNDED the problems with the game. On top of piece-mealing the setting (which fragments the franchise and contributes to a balkanized viewing of the whole) there was the moronic decision to include SLMH, thanks in no small part to Jason Marker and Tommy being idiots, literally undermining the very nature of Robotechnology and the overall narrative. Then there was the MDC and damage bloat at both ends that completely and totally screwed the middle for no other reason than "Yea, Southern Cross mecha are weak! Macross FTW11111" that fed a certain ignorant group of non-Robotech fan trolls to these boards (one of whom, as I understand it, is on a lifetime ban. Bravo!) There were directed energy small arms that did more damage than directed energy full size mecha gunpods, which makes zero sense. On top of the fact the tech progression made no sense stat-wise cause, again, "DURRR! MACROSS IT TEH BESTEST AND MOST AWESOME11111". I won't even mention the whole "MARINE CORPS!" that was never mentioned in the Tv series and so badly gobbled up the mythology of the USMC that it hurt to read. Again, when the Tv series is ignored for no legitimate reason we end up with this kind of mess.

The simple fact is that this time around, Palladium and Harmony Gold dropped the ball AGAIN! What we needed was a game that resembled a toolbox full of "goodies" that allows the GM to construct a sandbox of their favorite time periods of the show. Too much canon information, vehicles, mecha and ships were missing in favor of nonsensical drek that in many cases wasn't even tangentially mentioned in the Tv series, like the IMUs. Instead of Space Station Liberty, Moon Base Luna, Moon Base ALuCE-1, Dark Side Moon Base and the like....we got the UEEF Marines...as told by the Jack McKinney novels. This shouldn't have happened.

DocTom · Unread post by **DocTom** » Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:28 pm

I actually see this as a chance to fix what we don't like about the game. I think it would be cool to have some short fan made supplements

Alpha 11 · Unread post by **Alpha 11** » Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:57 pm

DocTom wrote:I actually see this as a chance to fix what we don't like about the game. I think it would be cool to have some short fan made supplements

I could go for that. Have a group of fans get together and do that.

Tiree · Unread post by **Tiree** » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:44 pm

I could totally see a revamp of the character creation process.

DocTom · Unread post by **DocTom** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:14 am

What do you like the least about character creation?

mech798 · Unread post by **mech798** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:46 am

Guys, I wouldn't hold my breath for anyone else to get the license--because as of 2021, HG will likely lose any rights to well, anything other than the name robotech and the associated story. So any theoretical game, wouldn't be able to use anything from the series. No VFs, zentraedi, anything like that. If it was a really big property, I could see someone deciding to really ram through a game in a few months to get sales from 2018 to 2021, but the fact is, Robotech is a niche property. After all, why try to negotiate for a name of a 1980s cartoon, when the rights are now freed up to try and say, get a macross game going, which has far more brand recognition.

glitterboy2098 · Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:24 am

post 2021 we might see the actual macross stuff (macross plus, 7, frontier, zero, etc) finally start coming over.

that said, i wouldn't hold my breath for PB getting a macross RPG if that happens.. not only do i suspect that PB will probably avoid licensed material from now on, but PB's working with HG has probably soured PB's image in the eyes of Big West, given how often Big West and HG clashed.

Tiree · Unread post by **Tiree** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:47 am

DocTom wrote:What do you like the least about character creation?

Where to start... Standardization is probably my biggest pet peeve. Between all the books it's not standardized where it should be.

Let's tackle something easy: SDC
Base SDC, is there one?
SDC in TSC is provided by MOS
SDC in Macross is provided by MOS
SDC in Masters is provided by OCC
SDC in New Gen is provided by OCC
I want it standardized... SDC is provided by one or the other... I'd choose OCC myself and provide a bonus if needed by MOS

DocTom · Unread post by **DocTom** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:29 pm

I agree that the inconsistent layout of the books is an issue. It makes it hard to find SDC, I agree.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:35 pm

glitterboy2098 wrote:post 2021 we might see the actual macross stuff (macross plus, 7, frontier, zero, etc) finally start coming over.

that said, i wouldn't hold my breath for PB getting a macross RPG if that happens.. not only do i suspect that PB will probably avoid licensed material from now on, but PB's working with HG has probably soured PB's image in the eyes of Big West, given how often Big West and HG clashed.

Can PB claim hogtied victim, rather than willful accomplice, status?

jaymz · Unread post by **jaymz** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:56 pm

You guys are welcome to use whatever I have on my wikia in regards to rewritten or "new" materials.

Arnie100 · Unread post by **Arnie100** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:00 pm

If you want to see some of the best fan-made supplements, go over to The Rancor Pit forums for the Star Wars D6 game. Those fan books are excellent quality.

DocTom · Unread post by **DocTom** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:01 pm

Cool, thanks Jamz

jaymz · Unread post by **jaymz** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:02 pm

http://worldofjaymz.wikia.com/wiki/Cate ... (Palladium)

Don't click the link. Copy paste it. For some reason it doesn't paste the link properly.

Tiree · Unread post by **Tiree** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:22 am

jaymz wrote:http://worldofjaymz.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Robotech_(Palladium)

Don't click the link. Copy paste it. For some reason it doesn't paste the link properly.

If you put the URL tag around the URL, instead of leaving it free... it will pick up the ) for a proper link....

jaymz · Unread post by **jaymz** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:02 am

I'll try to remember that, thanks tiree

RobotechMaster · Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:59 pm

Frankly speaking, I'd like confirmation from the mod of this board whether the Robotech / Macross II subforum will continue running as usual or be locked down after the Robotech license ended end of this month.

Alpha 11 · Unread post by **Alpha 11** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:00 pm

taalismn wrote:
glitterboy2098 wrote:post 2021 we might see the actual macross stuff (macross plus, 7, frontier, zero, etc) finally start coming over.

that said, i wouldn't hold my breath for PB getting a macross RPG if that happens.. not only do i suspect that PB will probably avoid licensed material from now on, but PB's working with HG has probably soured PB's image in the eyes of Big West, given how often Big West and HG clashed.

Can PB claim hogtied victim, rather than willful accomplice, status?

Well, they did have Macross 2 for a while. That might help in their favor. Though they did get some of the ships wrong.

glitterboy2098 · Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:49 pm

they got a lot of stuff wrong, some of it worse than others. but to be fair, they also had zero real resources to draw on to determine what the right stuff should be. and the result was still eminently playable and fun.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:41 am

glitterboy2098 wrote:they got a lot of stuff wrong, some of it worse than others. but to be fair, they also had zero real resources to draw on to determine what the right stuff should be. and the result was still eminently playable and fun.

For me it was the combination of right time, right place; I picked up my first copy during a street fair in Vineyard Haven during summer vacation. Bought it at a small gaming store off the main drag and took my first copy of the 1st ed Robotech up to a little park(Owen Park) overlooking the harbor and engaged in a reading fest in a little overlook pavilion. The weather was good, the summer still young, I was (fairly)young, and still had the optimistic glow of nerdom and geekry of the anime fad sweeping my generation. That may have given it all an aura of mystique that weathered the later critical commentary of others. So forgive me for waxing nostalgic about futures past.
Ah, fond memories.. :heart:

jaymz · Unread post by **jaymz** » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:34 am

On regards to these forums....pb didn't have the rt license for a period of time and haven't had the m2 license for quite a while and during the time they had neither this forum remained. No reason to believe they'll be shut down now.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:34 pm

jaymz wrote:On regards to these forums....pb didn't have the rt license for a period of time and haven't had the m2 license for quite a while and during the time they had neither this forum remained. No reason to believe they'll be shut down now.

It lives with its fanbase...though for a while there, it went some strange places with the fanbase(i.e. Robotech SuperDimensional Fortress Mordecai...

)

jaymz · Unread post by **jaymz** » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:34 pm

I'll stick to my wiki thx. Lol

Arnie100 · Unread post by **Arnie100** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:00 am

Alpha 11 wrote:
taalismn wrote:
glitterboy2098 wrote:post 2021 we might see the actual macross stuff (macross plus, 7, frontier, zero, etc) finally start coming over.

that said, i wouldn't hold my breath for PB getting a macross RPG if that happens.. not only do i suspect that PB will probably avoid licensed material from now on, but PB's working with HG has probably soured PB's image in the eyes of Big West, given how often Big West and HG clashed.

Can PB claim hogtied victim, rather than willful accomplice, status?

Well, they did have Macross 2 for a while. That might help in their favor. Though they did get some of the ships wrong.

What do you mean "some"? Lol

Kagashi · Unread post by **Kagashi** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:53 am

I'm saddened and happy. Saddened that Palladium and Harmony Gold had a second chance at greatness and both companies fell short. Happy because now another property can try and make a good RPG.

This line was plagued with red flags from the beginning with the announcement of manga sized books. Followed by making "Robotech like Rifts". Then, different writers whom didnt seem to read each other's work was a continuity nightmare. Only Marker's Macross work was not only true to the series (mostly) but it also offered great game mechanics; Masters followed in a decent fashion, but the MOS system just made each character the same as the next one. There was no reason why it didnt just use existing OCCs with timeline notes. Kevin S's stuff was a regurgitation of writing that had an antiquated feel to it, unwilling to think outside the box. Genesis Pits and New Gen books were decent...but they had a feel from the old days of just crap thrown together as a catch all to sell a book. Then there was Marines. Jackson didnt even do basic research, watch any of the shows, read any of the canon comics, nor even bother to see what anybody else did in previous books. It was written for 1st edition.

I am not surprised Palladium lost the licence. I wish their second chance went differently; but I'm glad the opportunity is open for another system to get it right.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:11 pm

IMHO, I don't think there's another company that will try a Robotech RPG.
If we're lucky, the Tactics game may continue, but a true RPG? Outside fan efforts, I don;t see it happening.

jaymz · Unread post by **jaymz** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:30 pm

taalismn wrote:IMHO, I don't think there's another company that will try a Robotech RPG.
If we're lucky, the Tactics game may continue, but a true RPG? Outside fan efforts, I don;t see it happening.

Seeing as I've already rewritten pretty much all the mecha, I'll gladly take on rewriting the rest.

jaymz · Unread post by **jaymz** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:33 pm

And I'll rewrite the old third invid war stuff to go with it.