Attacks/Actions per melee round for unequal combatants

[jburkett]

Has anyone tried an alternate way of distributing attacks/actions during a melee round for combatants who have a different number of attacks/actions? Under the combat rules in RUE, if you have a character with 6 attacks/actions vs a character or NPC with 4 attacks actions each will attack and counter attack, etc for the first four actions of the round until the character with 4 attacks/actions at the same rate. Then, the character with 6 attacks/actions gets to use the remaining 2 attacks/actions at the end of the round and the character with 4 can only defend (parry or dodge). So, (back to my question) has anyone tried a different distribution where, for example, the character with 4 attacks action are more equally distributed through out the 15 second melee? I guess I just find it odd that a character with 4 attacks/actions can use them at the same rate as a character with 6 during the first part of the melee round. I don't think this would be hard to figure out especially if you use graph paper to determine your initiative and attacks distribution for two or more characters during the round. The 15 second round would be divided into a number of segments equal to the number of attacks/actions for the character with the most attacks/actions. In the example above, that would be 6. Then, the other characters' attacks would be equally distributed (as much as possible) across those segments. For the 6 vs 4 example, it the character with 6 attacks/actions has initiative, then the character with 4 could counter attack against attack 1, 2, 4, & 6. They could still parry or dodge at 3 & 5 (but, they would forfeit next attack if they dodge as per rules). 7 vs 4 would allow the character with 4 attacks to counter at 1, 3, 5, & 7. And, 5 vs 4 would allow the character with 4 attacks/actions to counter at 1,2,4,& 5. Anyhoo, I hope this makes sense. Please let me know if you think this might work or if you see it as upsetting the balance in combat. Thanks for your input!

[BuzzardB]

I have tried a few one-offs with various actions/melee distribution, both from suggestions on this forum and elsewhere.
The two options I have ended up liking the most are polar opposites in complexity.
First is the alternate Initiative rules from temporal-nexus.net (which seems to be down as of posting this) where the initiative roll is divided by the number of actions you get then places on a chart in those increments. So if Johann rolls an initiative of 12 and has for actions/melee then he gets his actions on initiative 12, 9, 6 and 3. [12 / 4 = 3, so 3 increments apart].

The second, and smoothest, method was that everyone has 5 attacks/melee.

[Incriptus]

I do find the "Extra Attacks at the end" to be easy, and best described as watching a wrestling match where the two characters are exchanging punches till the the guy with the most attacks per melee ends with a number of unanswered attacks.



My most recent experiment was the 5 phase melee round. Where you get any attacks over number 5 as an extra attack in descending phases.

I.E. if you have 8 attacks

Phase 1: 1 attack
Phase 2: 1 attack
Phase 3: 2 Attacks
Phase 4: 2 Attacks
Phase 5: 2 Attacks

----

In Effect it comes down to how much of an advantage do you want the extra attacks to be

By Placing the Extra attacks earlier in the melee round you increase there value. Since having 12 attacks is less useful in a fight that only lasts for 5 attacks. By redistributing those attacks you give the guy with more attacks an even bigger advantage.


Ultimately I ended up dropping it because of the extra "paper work"

[Eagle]

Take a look at the Hero System and their Speed Chart. They use a 12 second combat round, but they break it up exactly as you're describing. 12 seconds in a turn, and 12 "phases". So somebody with 4 attacks per round (Speed 4 in Hero) goes on phase 3, 6, 9, and 12. Somebody with 5 attacks goes on 3, 5, 8, 10, and 12. 6 attacks mean you go on 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12.

If you want to reproduce that effect, you could use their chart. There's no real need to tie each phase to one second of game time, and Rifts characters usually don't go above 8 or 9 attacks a round, so you really wouldn't need to modify it.

[Vincent Takeda]

I've changed how I handle attacks fundamentally. Everyone only gets one attack per round and a round is 2 seconds. Any time a character would normally get an extra attack per round, instead I give them an initiative bonus. Everyone rolls for initiative, then only the winner goes. Then everyone rolls for initiative again. Much less to keep track of, and much more exciting in terms of not knowing who's gonna get in the next shot.

[eliakon]

In our games (and several of the ones on the chat room) we use what is known as the "5 pass system"
Each round of 15 seconds is divided up into 5 3 second 'passes'
You distribute your actions equally in each pass. With left overs being assigned via dealers choice.
Thus if you have 5 APM you get 1/1/1/1/1. If you have 6 you could have 2/1/1/1/1 or 1/1/1/2/1 or what have you.
When it's your turn you take all the actions in that pass at one time. Thus super fast combatants can make multiple attacks, or power blows or aimed shots or whatever. While super slow combatants might have to skip entire passes.

This allows the speedsters some advantage, with out utterly destroying everyone. AND it also means that they have to make some decisions early instead of simply waiting until the end and then annihilating the weakest people left.

So far it has worked out well.

[Tiree]

I do a 5 phase set of attacks, with everyone attacks on phase 1. I then even space out the number of attacks, as they grow. So like in the example above for 8 attacks, Phase 1, 3, and 5 will be 2 attacks while 2 and 4 would be 1. If someone has 4 attacks, phase 3 they would not have an action.

Doing this set up, allows multiple action attacks to be start and finish in the same phase. Instead of having to cross multiple phases. This system was borrowed from Champions/Hero System.

Code: Select all

Actions -- Phase 1 -- Phase 2 -- Phase 3 -- Phase 4 -- Phase 5
--- 01 -------- 1 -------- 0 -------- 0 -------- 0 -------- 0
--- 02 -------- 1 -------- 0 -------- 1 -------- 0 -------- 0
--- 03 -------- 1 -------- 0 -------- 1 -------- 0 -------- 1
--- 04 -------- 1 -------- 1 -------- 0 -------- 1 -------- 1
--- 05 -------- 1 -------- 1 -------- 1 -------- 1 -------- 1
--- 06 -------- 1 -------- 1 -------- 2 -------- 1 -------- 1
--- 07 -------- 1 -------- 2 -------- 1 -------- 2 -------- 1
--- 08 -------- 2 -------- 1 -------- 2 -------- 1 -------- 2
--- 09 -------- 2 -------- 2 -------- 1 -------- 2 -------- 2
--- 10 -------- 2 -------- 2 -------- 2 -------- 2 -------- 2
--- 11 -------- 2 -------- 2 -------- 3 -------- 2 -------- 2
--- 12 -------- 2 -------- 3 -------- 2 -------- 3 -------- 2
--- 13 -------- 3 -------- 2 -------- 3 -------- 2 -------- 3
--- 14 -------- 3 -------- 3 -------- 2 -------- 3 -------- 3
--- 15 -------- 3 -------- 3 -------- 3 -------- 3 -------- 3

[jburkett]

In our games (and several of the ones on the chat room) we use what is known as the "5 pass system"
Each round of 15 seconds is divided up into 5 3 second 'passes'
You distribute your actions equally in each pass. With left overs being assigned via dealers choice.
Thus if you have 5 APM you get 1/1/1/1/1. If you have 6 you could have 2/1/1/1/1 or 1/1/1/2/1 or what have you.
When it's your turn you take all the actions in that pass at one time. Thus super fast combatants can make multiple attacks, or power blows or aimed shots or whatever. While super slow combatants might have to skip entire passes.

This allows the speedsters some advantage, with out utterly destroying everyone. AND it also means that they have to make some decisions early instead of simply waiting until the end and then annihilating the weakest people left.

So far it has worked out well.

This system sounds like something I could use. I like the dealer's choice aspect. Thanks!

[dark brandon]

In our games (and several of the ones on the chat room) we use what is known as the "5 pass system"
Each round of 15 seconds is divided up into 5 3 second 'passes'
You distribute your actions equally in each pass. With left overs being assigned via dealers choice.
Thus if you have 5 APM you get 1/1/1/1/1. If you have 6 you could have 2/1/1/1/1 or 1/1/1/2/1 or what have you.
When it's your turn you take all the actions in that pass at one time. Thus super fast combatants can make multiple attacks, or power blows or aimed shots or whatever. While super slow combatants might have to skip entire passes.

This allows the speedsters some advantage, with out utterly destroying everyone. AND it also means that they have to make some decisions early instead of simply waiting until the end and then annihilating the weakest people left.

So far it has worked out well.

This system sounds like something I could use. I like the dealer's choice aspect. Thanks!

We use to do something like this, but instead of 5ths/ we did it in 4ths, and in the case of say 6 apm, it could go 1/1/2/2/, and was back loaded so that if you dodged or used a PA it didn't interrupt flow.

[glitterboy2098]

we tried 6 phases at first, and a few still do, but we settled on 5 because with a melee being 15 seconds, 5 phases results in each phase being 3 seconds, which makes figuring out time based stuff easier.

and one addition to "dealers choice" of note. any attacks not used during the melee are lost, and you can't stack more than one extra attack per phase (or two if you have 10+)

so if you have say 7 attacks, you can do any extra attack per phase twice.. but if you don't use them in the first 4 rounds, you'll only get in 6 attacks that melee, you don't get the make 3 in the last phase.

so juicers and high level robot pilots and others with loads and loads of attacks can be real combat machines still. but at all levels you have to strategize and take risks regarding what you use the attacks for. use your extra's early on for doing damage and you might not have enough for dodging. save extras early for dodging, and you have to start thinking over the risks later when you are running low on phases and still have lots of attacks to use. etc.

[Warshield73]

In our games (and several of the ones on the chat room) we use what is known as the "5 pass system"
Each round of 15 seconds is divided up into 5 3 second 'passes'
You distribute your actions equally in each pass. With left overs being assigned via dealers choice.
Thus if you have 5 APM you get 1/1/1/1/1. If you have 6 you could have 2/1/1/1/1 or 1/1/1/2/1 or what have you.
When it's your turn you take all the actions in that pass at one time. Thus super fast combatants can make multiple attacks, or power blows or aimed shots or whatever. While super slow combatants might have to skip entire passes.

This allows the speedsters some advantage, with out utterly destroying everyone. AND it also means that they have to make some decisions early instead of simply waiting until the end and then annihilating the weakest people left.

So far it has worked out well.

This system sounds like something I could use. I like the dealer's choice aspect. Thanks!

I have used a system like this for about 20 years, we call it Base Five.
Each melee is 15 seconds broken into 5 rounds of three seconds each. By making each round three seconds players know how much the can say and our character sheets have how far they can move in each round. For people with more then 5 attacks I give them dealers choice when to take them with one exception, I don't allow 2 attacks on round 1, unless they have 10 or more attacks.

I like this system because it keeps people involved, there turn comes around about every minute or two, but it also gives OCCs like Juicers a huge advantage.

I have had some friends try to do 3, 4, or even 6 phases and others do Base X which is the lowest number of attacks being the base. I just find it is more organized for it to be five rounds each time.

[SpiritInterface]

We tried a grid with 1-45 across the top and the Characters down the side. Then rolled initiatives, and divide your roll by the number of actions and that is the interval at which you got your actions.

As a example; if you had 6 actions and your total initiative was an 18 after adds. your first action would happen on 18, the next on 15, then 12, 9, 6, and last action on 3. If the interval didn't work out evenly the short intervals were put into the middle.

It got real interesting when you had high initiative, high action characters along with low initiative, low action characters. Or low initiative, high action and high initiative, low action characters.

[shadrak]

I create a system of "free/extra" attacks based on the lowest number of attacks in the interaction.

So, if I had 5 players and NPCs:
Player 1 = 7 attacks
Player 2 = 6 attacks
NPC 1 = 5 attacks
NPC 2 = 4 attacks
NPC 3 = 4 attacks....

I would play each melee round as a 4 attack melee round with the players with additional attacks able to do 2 attacks at some point during the combat...

This would allow them to aim/shoot or power punch/leap kick in a single action.

Generally, players tend to take their additional action immediately in the round which is how I would recommend it rather than taking 3 or 4 actions at the end of the round...

That is Player 1 has 7 melee actions and Player 2 has 4 melee actions with Player 1 having the initiative...

Player 1 dives for cover (1 action) and takes a wild shot (1 action) (2 of 7)
Player 2 dives for cover (1 action) (1 of 4)
Player 1 makes and aimed, called shot at player 2 who is now behind cover (3 actions) 5 of 7
Player 2 aims at player 1 (1 action) 2 of 4
Player 1 aims at player 2 (1 action) 6 of 7
Player 2 calls his shot (1 action) 3 of 4
Player 1 shoots (1 action) 7 of 7
Player 2 shoots (1 action) 4 of 4