Cold-Blooded transformation

[Curbludgeon]

A fun thing I noticed in the descriptions of non-human Juicers is that while Titan Juicer dwarves are specifically mentioned as gaining height, other races aren't. My hand is now forced, and I have to stat up a Kankoran Cold Blooded former-Titan. She'll be a 4'1" blue-tinged Vulpes cubicae named Hyacinth who, upon having to give up her native ways, dedicates her pseudo-unlife to filling the Lake of the Ozarks with her ungainly kind.

[Blue_Lion]

Have you bothered to read the Cold-Blooded entry and how stats are determined for an existing character? It's PS is determined by taking the PS score of the character before the transformation and then adding a bonus. It's MDC is determined by taking the character's HP and SDC, then adding a bonus. So a 98 lb weakling is going to have different stats after conversion than the Mr Universe candidate. Ergo, my "the muscle mass is there" argument is just a restating of what the canon text obviously is showing us. The existing flesh of the character at the time of the ritual most definitely matters in the determination of the result.

As to your OCC switch based argument, the only rules Palladium has given us for switching OCCs don't require you to lower your stats if your previous OCC gave you a boost. Go look at the rules in High Seas again if you need a refresher. There is no general rule eliminating bonuses from a previous OCC.

I did read it, and the rules for detox. Did you read the steps for detox? If you did not remove the bio comp you would have all bonuses of being a juicer. If you removed the bio-comp that triggers step 2 then step 3 giving you a detox charter. While the worse pains of detox takes 1d4 weeks the detox process does not say to wait. It says step 1 remove the bio-comp, step 2 choose a new OCC, step 3 rebuild the charter. Basically only step one happens in game, step 2 and three are triggered and done by the player when the bio-comp is removed. It does not say they happen at the end of 1d4 weeks but that you must do step 2 to continue his life. If you do not do step 2 as soon as the bio comp is removed he can not continue in game. Choosing to go coldblooded would likely meet the requirement of a new occ triggering the rebuild before the ritual is started.

I never said the general rules require lowering stats. I said by normal rules all stats are frozen but juicer detox rules are a special case. Special cases over ride the normal rules.

**Simply you have all bonuses of a juicer or are a detoxed juicer you do not get to pick and choose what to keep.**

[Blue_Lion]

They do if the bonus only exists as a part of the OCC.
No really.
The bonuses are part of the Juicer OCC. You are no longer a Juicer. Thus you are not keeping the Juicer OCC bonuses. That is pretty explicit in the Juicer write up...that as soon as you stop being a juicer you lose your juicer OCC bonuses. As such yes, class specific features over ride a general rule.
BUT since the Cold Blood isnt a class change but is nistead is a full on RCC change...well it doesn't even matter. You are not a Juicer(8)/Cold Blood(1) for instance. You are just a Cold Blood (1)...which is why you no longer get to keep all your perks of being a Juicer (8)
There is no "class change" to it.
Now sure, you can house rule it how ever you want... but the way it is written is the way it is written... and that way says nothing what so ever about class changing over and instead about remaking.

You are going to have to prove a quote that says bonuses that exist as part of the occ are not frozen like any other occ bonuses.
What keeps a ex-juicer from keeping his occ based bonuses are the detox rules.
However by the way the detox rules are written once you do step 1 you must do step 2 and then 3.

If he was still a juicer when he changed classes and did not do step 1 a juicer would have all occ bonuses.
If he choose to detox and removed the bio comp he would then get full detox penalties.

There would be compatabilty issues with the juicer and the cold-blooded process, like his bio comp trying to raise the body tempiture after the solustion lowered it, and his internal nano bots trying to stop masive loss of blood.

While not in the rules state it but there is also a therotical posiblty that the alchemical solution may have an adverse reaction with the juicers chemicals.

Keeping just part of the juicer bonuses and going cold blooded is a house ruled idea and not part of the rules. By the way I understand the rules once a charter get the juicer bonuses he either has all the bonuses of being a juicer or is detoxed. There is no middle ground the rules are binary, either you detoxed or you did not.

[Mack]

Here's part of the challenge when thinking about a Juicer's bonuses. Some comes from muscle mass which isn't going to suddenly vanish. But other bonuses come from the chemical cocktail and adrenal stimulation which will vanish pretty quickly. This is why it isn't easy or straightforward to determine what stats and bonuses a Juicer would keep if he were subjected to the Cold Blooded transformation.

The simple answers are
1) All
2) None

But it may actually be
3) Some.

That opens a different can of worms as we must decide how much of each bonus to keep.

[Blue_Lion]

Here's part of the challenge when thinking about a Juicer's bonuses. Some comes from muscle mass which isn't going to suddenly vanish. But other bonuses come from the chemical cocktail and adrenal stimulation which will vanish pretty quickly. This is why it isn't easy or straightforward to determine what stats and bonuses a Juicer would keep if he were subjected to the Cold Blooded transformation.

The simple answers are
1) All
2) None

But it may actually be
3) Some.

That opens a different can of worms as we must decide how much of each bonus to keep.

1 and 2 would be what the rules say.
3 may seam logical but it purely a house rule.


Are we debating what the rules say or peoples house rules? I have only been talking about what the rules say. Debating house rules really is pointless.

[Mack]

Here's part of the challenge when thinking about a Juicer's bonuses. Some comes from muscle mass which isn't going to suddenly vanish. But other bonuses come from the chemical cocktail and adrenal stimulation which will vanish pretty quickly. This is why it isn't easy or straightforward to determine what stats and bonuses a Juicer would keep if he were subjected to the Cold Blooded transformation.

The simple answers are
1) All
2) None

But it may actually be
3) Some.

That opens a different can of worms as we must decide how much of each bonus to keep.

1 and 2 would be what the rules say.
3 may seam logical but it purely a house rule.


Are we debating what the rules say or peoples house rules? I have only been talking about what the rules say. Debating house rules really is pointless.

The rules don't address this circumstance. If they did, then this topic would've been only a post or two long.

1, 2, and 3 are all house rules.

[dreicunan]

Here's part of the challenge when thinking about a Juicer's bonuses. Some comes from muscle mass which isn't going to suddenly vanish. But other bonuses come from the chemical cocktail and adrenal stimulation which will vanish pretty quickly. This is why it isn't easy or straightforward to determine what stats and bonuses a Juicer would keep if he were subjected to the Cold Blooded transformation.

The simple answers are
1) All
2) None

But it may actually be
3) Some.

That opens a different can of worms as we must decide how much of each bonus to keep.

1 and 2 would be what the rules say.
3 may seam logical but it purely a house rule.


Are we debating what the rules say or peoples house rules? I have only been talking about what the rules say. Debating house rules really is pointless.

The rules don't address this circumstance. If they did, then this topic would've been only a post or two long.

1, 2, and 3 are all house rules.

Well said. My own take is that the actual answer is 3, some, because that seems the most logical based on all that circumstances in play.