Looking for Some GM Advise

[Okey-Dokey]

I have a few questions for all of ny fellow GM's..

#1. How much is to much? Gold, treasure, loot. When my players stumble into an ancient ruin thats been sealed for centuries, just how much treasure is to much?

#2. Magic Items: I feel like the "enchantments" from alchemist shops are more of a modern day thing. So when I'm stocking an ancient ruin (ill continue using this example) from th early days od the elf-dwarf war (or older), what are the alternatives to the alchemist enchantments, other than Rune weapons. And how do I know if a magic item is just to powerful?

#3. Rune Weapons(items): What's an appropriate level to award my players with these powerful pieces of history? I'm talking about the ones that they can actually use! Finding the ALL-POWERFUL AXE OF REALLY COOL AXE STUFF is great and all but if its only going to allow a diabolic sycophant to wield it. Than its just a plot device and not much of an award.

#4. Final Question: How do you handle a party who has truly struck it rich. Theyve put in the time and effort to protect their findings, to fully mine a location of its tresures and hidden wealths, theyve managed to transport insane amounts of coin to the bank. Whats to keep them interested in continuing a life of adventure when theyve got the funds to live like kings in castles of their own?


Can't wait to see youre replies, and hope to see more questions posted as well

[Father Goose]

This is largely subjective. The number one rule I use is "will this unbalance my game?" If yes, they don't get it, if no, they do.

Answers to your questions
1. Some of the published books have some truly massive treasure hauls, so whatever you decide it won't be "too much" compared to what is already there. However, there comes the logistical problem of "how will we transport this much weight?" Such considerations can be the inspiration for continued story. After all, if they are loaded down heavy with treasure, they make good marks, don't they? If they keep it hidden and treat the ancient vault like their bank, then there is the chance for looters to slip in while they are out. In other words, never fear you are giving too much. There are plenty of ways to legitimately take it away if you regret your decision later.

2. I use the examples of enchanted items, the examples of rune weapons, and my own imagination and invent items that I find interesting. There is no limit to what you can make. If you can imagine it, you can include it. If you feel it is too powerful, make it unique and impossible to replicate, then craft story around its importance. Otherwise, go for memorable and interesting.

3. This is largely a question of where you are in your story. Will the possession of a rune weapon unbalance your current story? If so, wait a while to award it. Level is less of a concern than the story. That said, I usually wait a few levels before letting my players have powerful items, lest I spoil them.

4. To purchase property, they will need to have leave from the sovereign of the land. Same if they want to build a castle, etc. There will be oaths to swear, promises to make, deals with suppliers and neighbors, and years of construction. So, build a story around proving their worth to the king (or whatever the title) in order to earn the privilege of owning land. Then require them to swear a variety of oaths of fealty and service in order to retain the land and/or build upon it. Require them to enter into various contracts with others in the course of making the necessary arrangements for their new home. Then, threaten the land or its neighbors. Have them duty bound to respond. Have the king call on them for service. Draw them out of their homes to protect it, protect their business partners, or fulfill their oaths of service to the sovereign. There are lots of ways to encourage them to continue the adventure, you just have to adjust your perspective.

Hopefully some of this proves helpful. Just remember the main goal of the game: Have fun telling an epic tale together.

[Okey-Dokey]

Definitely good suggestions

[Father Goose]

Definitely good suggestions

I have found that Palladium games do not have the rigidity of many other games. This can be frustrating at times (no clear answers/guidelines), but mostly it means that I have the freedom to explore the story I want to explore without worrying too much about it destabilizing something. Also, the fluidity of the setting means that you have increased options for self-correcting if things go in a direction that you dislike. Relax, tell the story you want to tell, and have fun with it. Your players will thank you for it.

[kiralon]

If all their money is in a bank, do a bank robbery plot. PC's have just gone and stolen all that money from something, something has now gone and stolen all that money from them. For a laugh just have the money hidden, so if the pc's actually go looking for their money, the bad guys then take it, but if they go around with truth spells the bad guys can say truthfully "we didn't take any of your money anywhere"
also
Taxes, if they got money, the crown wants it.

Ruins: Lots of people will have already been through the ruins, as they have had thousands of years to do so, so the good stuff will usually be in the spot that consistently kills/scares off explorers.

But I try not to give bonuses more than 2 higher than they already have to things if its a major ruin, and usually just try alternate stuff on easy ruins.

[Veknironth]

Well, money in the form of gold isn't as beneficial to a mobile group as you'd think. There are two situations:

1. The loot is found in some corner of a civilized realm. In this case, the PCs have to be surreptitious in how they move the loot. If they have someone buy or rent a cart or wagon, then they can load that up. But then they have to keep it lying around and they'll have to either conceal its presence or explain where they acquired it. If word is out that they found it in the corner of said kingdom, the king or local lord will most likely lay claim to the coins, since it was found on his or her property. If they conceal it, they'll have the problem of currency. They'll have all of this currency that is way out of date. It will have different rulers on it, the weights will be different, etc. Many people might not accept it as legal tender. They might have a mountain of worthless coin. And word might get out that there is a group with all this old coin. That can attract a lot of attention (local rulers, thieves guilds, opportunists, etc.) Finally, the local authorities might not want a huge infusion of cash into their economy for fears of inflation.

2. The loot is found far away. Now, they have whatever is on them to fill with lucre. So, there might be 5 million gold coins, but how many sturdy bags do they have? And are they going to walk through the wilderness with said bags? How much will that slow them down? Do they now have enough food and water for what is now a longer trip? Are they targets for brigands? They could easily be confronted by a large force who just wants the bags. They don't even want to fight, and will let the PCs go with just the ransom. If they make it back to safety and decide to buy carts or wagons, there are two perils. The first is being followed. After all, why would a group of itinerants be buying empty carts and wagons? They are obviously going after something valuable. The second concern is someone else having found or looted the ruins while they were looking for means to transport the loot.

As for the second question, look at the spells that are available in Palladium and at powers of rune weapons. You can mix and match any of those powers.

For Rune weapons, I'd only give out the ones that are included in the books. That is, unless you have it as a MacGufffin or a plot point. I'd also recommend looking up the thread here on the difficulties of keeping a rune weapon. You almost HAVE to keep the possession of a rune weapon a secret and how does someone go about that?

If the party has navigated all the problems above, they can decide how they want to spend their money. If they splurge on magic items to help them in their journeys, that's pretty easy. They just have to take on greater challenges. If they want to remain sedentary, which is a realistic in character thing to do, then they can re-roll a poorer, more motivated character. Or, you can convene at the table and tell them how they enjoy breakfast, hunting, a play, etc..

-Vek
"Worrying about encumbrance isn't fun, but it's a great limiting factor."

[Library Ogre]

I have a few questions for all of ny fellow GM's..

#1. How much is to much? Gold, treasure, loot. When my players stumble into an ancient ruin thats been sealed for centuries, just how much treasure is to much?

#2. Magic Items: I feel like the "enchantments" from alchemist shops are more of a modern day thing. So when I'm stocking an ancient ruin (ill continue using this example) from th early days od the elf-dwarf war (or older), what are the alternatives to the alchemist enchantments, other than Rune weapons. And how do I know if a magic item is just to powerful?

#3. Rune Weapons(items): What's an appropriate level to award my players with these powerful pieces of history? I'm talking about the ones that they can actually use! Finding the ALL-POWERFUL AXE OF REALLY COOL AXE STUFF is great and all but if its only going to allow a diabolic sycophant to wield it. Than its just a plot device and not much of an award.

#4. Final Question: How do you handle a party who has truly struck it rich. Theyve put in the time and effort to protect their findings, to fully mine a location of its tresures and hidden wealths, theyve managed to transport insane amounts of coin to the bank. Whats to keep them interested in continuing a life of adventure when theyve got the funds to live like kings in castles of their own?


Can't wait to see youre replies, and hope to see more questions posted as well

1) How rich do you want them to be? Figure out how much it costs to live, and how long it's going to be until their next score. Give them a little bit above that... enough that they've got a win, but small enough that they're hungry.

2) I tend to view magic in Palladium as cyclical. The Millennium of Purification was the bottom of the most recent cycle. It's now on the upswing, with new magics being created and old magics being rediscovered. So, including some alchemy isn't inappropriate, depending on the age. If you want something with an old and weird feel, give it a non-standard enchantment and make the design clearly archaic. The sword is a bronze leaf-blade. The writing is indecipherable, save through magic. Even when you can read it, it's nearly incomprehensible, since it's an allusion to a poem in a language that hasn't been spoken in about 35,000 years. Instead of being an entire blade made fully out of flame, the edges of the blade light up with flickering wicks of fire. The scabbard is warded, but one ward is one that the diabolist in the party doesn't recognize, since the current version of that ward symbol was developed during the Elf-Dwarf War.

3) If you're going to include a rune weapon, make it worth something. Think of Rune Weapons as being similar to droids in Star Wars... even the lesser ones need to have a personality, even if it comes out during the course of play. Spending time around living minds should wake them up and sharpen them, and they should become characters, even if they can only talk to the person holding them. That said, however, every rune weapon is a potential assassin magnet. Really, there's no reason to bring in rune weapons until you want to deal with that as a story factor.

4) Once the money gets to the point where they don't have to worry about it, then you either change the game, or drop those characters. Now that they have money, they probably have responsibilities, and people they are responsible for. If they have old enemies, they may hit them where they are vulnerable. Or they may attract attention of other powerful forces. Does a dragon want that rune weapon? Maybe there was an undead guardian that they missed in a tomb? Or someone takes a dislike to something else they're doing... someone had plans for the nexus they're using. Or, get deus ex machina... they're on an ancient holy site. Or a witch has been sent to kill them.

[pestigor]

Definitely good suggestions

I have found that Palladium games do not have the rigidity of many other games. This can be frustrating at times (no clear answers/guidelines), but mostly it means that I have the freedom to explore the story I want to explore without worrying too much about it destabilizing something. Also, the fluidity of the setting means that you have increased options for self-correcting if things go in a direction that you dislike. Relax, tell the story you want to tell, and have fun with it. Your players will thank you for it.

To me this is the strength of Palladium games. While there is a lot of material to use, there is a lot of empty space to go out on your own and make it yours.

Palladium is also, what I like to call "front loaded". At first level the character has some serious abilities (as compared to other fantasy games that use levels) so it is almost completely about story and timing for major magic items and almost nothing to do with levels. You can really GM "by feel" in this game. I just don't suggest going too Big all at once before you have a feel for your players and their characters.

[Father Goose]

Definitely good suggestions

I have found that Palladium games do not have the rigidity of many other games. This can be frustrating at times (no clear answers/guidelines), but mostly it means that I have the freedom to explore the story I want to explore without worrying too much about it destabilizing something. Also, the fluidity of the setting means that you have increased options for self-correcting if things go in a direction that you dislike. Relax, tell the story you want to tell, and have fun with it. Your players will thank you for it.

To me this is the strength of Palladium games. While there is a lot of material to use, there is a lot of empty space to go out on your own and make it yours.

Palladium is also, what I like to call "front loaded". At first level the character has some serious abilities (as compared to other fantasy games that use levels) so it is almost completely about story and timing for major magic items and almost nothing to do with levels. You can really GM "by feel" in this game. I just don't suggest going too Big all at once before you have a feel for your players and their characters.

Exactly what I was trying to get at. Level is less of a factor in decision making for Palladium. It's more of a reward and less of a prerequisite.
All the above advice is good and worth taking into consideration, but I stand by my previous statement: "Relax, tell the story you want to tell, and have fun with it." The more you play (especially with the same group) the more you'll get a feel for what level of complexity you want, what level of power you want, and what kind of stories work for you.

[Peacebringer]

How are the players going to carry it away? What are they going to do with it? To spend it, they have to go to a community and that community will have individuals that want what the players have. The wicked will try to swindle while the virtuous may assist for a fee.

When the players have a lot, I mean a LOT of wealth, the game moves from adventure to politics; they have to deal with NPCs and a whole other level. They will have to learn to deal with other PCs and NPC without using battle as their only option (which, most fantasy games are (Hack and Slash)).

During the California gold-rush, the miners found a lot of gold; they also found inflation increased due to their excess wealth. Shovels and tools and everything cost more because the miners had the gold to spend.

[Whiskeyjack]

A lot will also depend on the power level of the campaign. The one I'm currently running will have the group getting dragged into the minion war. While they haven't found tons of gold. They do have a variety of nice magical weapons that will assist them in the campaign. If it was a more down to earth game with mortal foes, they would likely be looking at nice gear with minor bonuses instead.
I've never found a need to heap gold on characters. If they are going to keep the game moving forward, useful items and enough gold to feed and cloth themselves seems to work.
If you have them based out of a single area, then you might give them enough to be able to afford a building that they can use as a home base, but keep in mind that they now pay taxes, get dragged into politics and may have responsibilities to the town.

[Hotrod]

#1. How much is to much? Gold, treasure, loot. When my players stumble into an ancient ruin thats been sealed for centuries, just how much treasure is to much?

The purpose of treasure in the game is to reward your players and allow them a chance to make some significant change for their characters. Appropriate amounts depend on where your characters start. If they've been shipwrecked and are wearing in rags with homemade weapons, a few dozen gold can make a huge difference; now they can afford some decent weapons and armor. If they're sporting full enchanted plate with custom magic weapons, rings, and a gallon of healing potions, then a few thousand won't make much difference to the party. By that point, life-changing treasure hauls are likely to require multiple pack animals or magic carry it all away. Good rewards at that stage are things like land, titles, ships, unique magic items, powers/abilities, et cetera, not money.

#2. Magic Items: I feel like the "enchantments" from alchemist shops are more of a modern day thing. So when I'm stocking an ancient ruin (ill continue using this example) from th early days od the elf-dwarf war (or older), what are the alternatives to the alchemist enchantments, other than Rune weapons. And how do I know if a magic item is just to powerful?

What challenges do you want your players to focus on? If the enchantments add a new dimension to those challenges or cut down on otherwise tedious processes, then they're good to include. If they trivialize key obstacles, then they're too powerful. For alternatives to rune weapons, you have magic items and potions in many of the sourcebooks. Western Empire has the best magic enchantment selections outside the basic book. There's also Crystal Magic items from Island at the Edge of the World, millennium tree items/bows from Eastern Territories, Great Oak items from Bizantium, some nifty items from Northern Hinterlands, and a whole bunch of great herbal magic items in Rifts England that are good to import.

#3. Rune Weapons(items): What's an appropriate level to award my players with these powerful pieces of history? I'm talking about the ones that they can actually use! Finding the ALL-POWERFUL AXE OF REALLY COOL AXE STUFF is great and all but if its only going to allow a diabolic sycophant to wield it. Than its just a plot device and not much of an award.

My favorite items are ones that grow with the character. Crystal magic items can be great for this, but you can work in features to your weapons or armor over time in other ways by incorporating/adding special materials, enchantments, or refinements as you go ("Well dun, thar, heroes! Oill re-smyth thy sward so it bytes thy foes bitter!") ("You have my gratitude for returning my daughter to me. I shall grant each of you an eternal enchantment for a weapon or object of your choosing. What do you wish for?"). Finally, I'd consider rewarding players with stuff that isn't purpose-built for combat. For example, a gem of direction could be tremendously useful if you incorporate navigation into your adventures, some healing ointments that allow severed limbs to be reattached, or a Gullet of Iron potion that allows changelings to guzzle salt and booze might mean more than a +2 Dagger of Stabbing.

#4. Final Question: How do you handle a party who has truly struck it rich. Theyve put in the time and effort to protect their findings, to fully mine a location of its tresures and hidden wealths, theyve managed to transport insane amounts of coin to the bank. Whats to keep them interested in continuing a life of adventure when theyve got the funds to live like kings in castles of their own?

Change the game. Raise the stakes. Are they going to bury their treasure in the bank or invest it in some kind of business? If so, what kind of business? Ships are huge money sinks that can also be highly lucrative; maybe they can become traders. Are they going to try their hand at being nobles? Political intrigue starts to come into play, and decisions about marriage alliances, taking sides in local conflicts, rooting out bandits/local supernatural nasties... there are tons of adventure opportunities out there. You can also crush them. Perhaps the Crown needs money to pay for its debts and declares the party to be traitors; now they must escape with whatever they can carry. Perhaps their ships sink or get captured by privates/privateers. Perhaps they get framed for some heinous crime. Great rises and falls can make for high adventure, and having some ebb and flow to your characters' power, wealth, and fame keep things interesting. For inspiration, consider Game of Thrones, Vikings, The Count of Monte Cristo, and some of your favorite serialized stories.

[MT_Juicer]

I have a few questions for all of ny fellow GM's..

#1. How much is to much? Gold, treasure, loot. When my players stumble into an ancient ruin thats been sealed for centuries, just how much treasure is to much?

I've been thinking about this in particular lately. I recently watched Triple Frontier and it made me think about sending a group after a giant score and the difficulty that comes along with just the large quantity of loot. A huge haul has immense weight and space considerations, and not to give away any spoilers, they have to work on a tight timetable.

Okey-Dokey wrote:
#3. Rune Weapons(items): What's an appropriate level to award my players with these powerful pieces of history? I'm talking about the ones that they can actually use! Finding the ALL-POWERFUL AXE OF REALLY COOL AXE STUFF is great and all but if its only going to allow a diabolic sycophant to wield it. Than its just a plot device and not much of an award.

I think the rune weapons work well as a MacGuffin. Perhaps they find a piece of Castlerake or even just a lead on the location of a legendary item, like Frostfoil. They could be directed along through your adventure with clues/hints. Maybe they find a lesser item that was mistakenly reported as the legendary weapon/armor/item. I'm a big fan of piecemeal equipment, such as the armor that only works if all the pieces are together. Putting the set together can be the necessary steps to be able to defeat the big baddie that drives your adventure.

[Father Goose]

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