PPE per melee round from ley lines

[Axelmania]

PF2p181 mentions under 2nd paragraph of "Ley Lines, Nexus Points, & PPE":

Men of magic can syphon a fragment of the energy from these lines,
especially during certain periods and positions of the moon and stars.
The additional magic energy is often only accessibly directly at a ley line nexus
and must be used while it is available.
The PPE cannot be saved and used later.

I think I had some misconceptions about this because Rifts Ultimate Edition didn't exactly mention these prohibitions ("must be used" + "cannot be saved") so maybe they don't apply.

I used to think that the 10 PPE/melee could be used to replenish one's PPE stores, but I think I was wrong about that. I guess you'd have to use it quickly for casting a spell, though I'm not entirely sure how quickly. Like if you wanted to cast a 20 PPE spell you'd need to tap for 2 melees to cast without tapping your own, but is that possible, or can you only tap the 10 and it's gone if it's not used?

Is that maybe what the "3xPPE for PE in minutes/hours" I've seen in some errata refers to? I can't remember which (if either) is canon for PF2.

Being unable to recharge your base PPE using this 10/melee from being at/on a line (or half mile from nexus, if off a line) is probably why it separately lists your own PPE reserve replenishing at 10 per 30 minutes (without meditation!) which would seem pointless to do if you could get that much in 15 seconds.

As a house rule I'd probably like to simplify that to 1 per 3 minutes, to allow someone to dip their toe onto a line for shorter periods of replenishment. I think I'd also stack this with usual sleep/meditation rates (which could be legal, it never says to replace the usual rates so it might be viewed as a supplement).

I wonder about ways around this though. Talisman PPE batteries (pg 215) seem line one, since you could create those using the 10/melee PPE.

When it says "can then be used at a later time to bolster the character's normal PPE reserve" I don't know that it necessarily means you could recover your base PPE using them though, but rather it seems like they might function like a ley line where it's an excess you can use to boost spell-casting directly?

IE if you have 0/100 PPE and a pair of 50 PPE talismans which are full, I don't know if you could just suck out the PPE to replnish your base and then toss away the empty talismans, I think maybe you'd need to keep the talismans as a "bolster" for direct spellcasting? Correct me if I'm wrong but I guess that's how I view the word "bolster" and the lack of mention that you could explicitly recover from them.

Another comparison I'm wondering about with Rifts. RUE 186 says that mages can suck 10 PPE / melee from ley lines, which makes it sound like it's the same as PF. This seems to contradict PF2p280 which says "energy levels are roughly 60% less than Rifts Earth". It made me think that if PF has merely 40% of the energy that it should instead be 4/melee instead of 10/melee.

However I must keep in mind: Ley Line Walkers/Rifters can draw 20/round from a ley line (and I think Mystic Knights too, it notes they can draw double in Federation of Magic), so THAT should probably be viewed as the full level. Rifts has double the levels, but only Walkers/Rifters have the skill to actually tap it safely.

That said... 40% of 20 PPE is actually 8 PPE not 10 PPE, so shouldn't we actually be tweaking the PPE/round in PF2 to 8/melee?

The only other explanation I can think of is that 10 PPE is 40% of 25, so perhaps the PPE/round in Rifts at lines is actually 25 but nobody's skilled enough to grab it, Walkers/Rifters simply come closest at 20.

[kiralon]

You could likely use the energy casting a spell as a ritual.
I think mysteries of magic has a bit of an update to this, ill check it out when it get home from work.

[The Beast]

The RUE rules about ley lines don't apply in the PFRPG setting, and visa-versa. Each system has their own rules on the subject. Personally I think that's stupid and would like a more universal set of rules for the settings, but it is what it is.

[Axelmania]

I'm not sure if RUE has any rules for ley lines not present in PF except for maybe a chance of Rifts opening on them too at times of power (not just nexuses as normal in other settings). If anything, PF actually seems to have rules which RUE neglected to reprint, such as spells doing more damage / duration / range on lines/nexuses or PPE base regenerating faster on them. Probably an oversight.

You could likely use the energy casting a spell as a ritual.
I think mysteries of magic has a bit of an update to this, ill check it out when it get home from work.

Great rec, pg 22 actually mentions it's 50% above your usual PPE for PE in melee rounds, far more limited than the 300% for PE in minutes/hours we'd seen previously in errata (perhaps that was intended for Rifts only?)

Then there's this cool massive 600ppe/level rule with a max cap of 1 melee round so it's not of any especial use in dealing with lower rates like 10/melee, more for peak periods or massive blood sacrifice.

There's a note about rituals after which might modify that though, like maybe if you dumped the 600 PPE into the ritual, it might be okay if the ritual's not finished just then and it takes several minutes more, like the ritual might maintain it somehow until it's completed?

Pg 23 focuses on the lines but seems the same as the main book.

[Lukterran]

PF2p181 mentions under 2nd paragraph of "Ley Lines, Nexus Points, & PPE":

Men of magic can syphon a fragment of the energy from these lines,
especially during certain periods and positions of the moon and stars.
The additional magic energy is often only accessibly directly at a ley line nexus
and must be used while it is available.
The PPE cannot be saved and used later.

I think I had some misconceptions about this because Rifts Ultimate Edition didn't exactly mention these prohibitions ("must be used" + "cannot be saved") so maybe they don't apply.

I used to think that the 10 PPE/melee could be used to replenish one's PPE stores, but I think I was wrong about that. I guess you'd have to use it quickly for casting a spell, though I'm not entirely sure how quickly. Like if you wanted to cast a 20 PPE spell you'd need to tap for 2 melees to cast without tapping your own, but is that possible, or can you only tap the 10 and it's gone if it's not used?

Is that maybe what the "3xPPE for PE in minutes/hours" I've seen in some errata refers to? I can't remember which (if either) is canon for PF2.

Being unable to recharge your base PPE using this 10/melee from being at/on a line (or half mile from nexus, if off a line) is probably why it separately lists your own PPE reserve replenishing at 10 per 30 minutes (without meditation!) which would seem pointless to do if you could get that much in 15 seconds.

As a house rule I'd probably like to simplify that to 1 per 3 minutes, to allow someone to dip their toe onto a line for shorter periods of replenishment. I think I'd also stack this with usual sleep/meditation rates (which could be legal, it never says to replace the usual rates so it might be viewed as a supplement).

I wonder about ways around this though. Talisman PPE batteries (pg 215) seem line one, since you could create those using the 10/melee PPE.

When it says "can then be used at a later time to bolster the character's normal PPE reserve" I don't know that it necessarily means you could recover your base PPE using them though, but rather it seems like they might function like a ley line where it's an excess you can use to boost spell-casting directly?

IE if you have 0/100 PPE and a pair of 50 PPE talismans which are full, I don't know if you could just suck out the PPE to replnish your base and then toss away the empty talismans, I think maybe you'd need to keep the talismans as a "bolster" for direct spellcasting? Correct me if I'm wrong but I guess that's how I view the word "bolster" and the lack of mention that you could explicitly recover from them.

Another comparison I'm wondering about with Rifts. RUE 186 says that mages can suck 10 PPE / melee from ley lines, which makes it sound like it's the same as PF. This seems to contradict PF2p280 which says "energy levels are roughly 60% less than Rifts Earth". It made me think that if PF has merely 40% of the energy that it should instead be 4/melee instead of 10/melee.

However I must keep in mind: Ley Line Walkers/Rifters can draw 20/round from a ley line (and I think Mystic Knights too, it notes they can draw double in Federation of Magic), so THAT should probably be viewed as the full level. Rifts has double the levels, but only Walkers/Rifters have the skill to actually tap it safely.

That said... 40% of 20 PPE is actually 8 PPE not 10 PPE, so shouldn't we actually be tweaking the PPE/round in PF2 to 8/melee?

The only other explanation I can think of is that 10 PPE is 40% of 25, so perhaps the PPE/round in Rifts at lines is actually 25 but nobody's skilled enough to grab it, Walkers/Rifters simply come closest at 20.

Magic users can indeed replenish their PPE store. Per your same reference:

"Furthermore, the character's own P.P.E. recovers at the increased rate of 10 P.P.E. per half hour/30 minutes, without meditation!"

That is talking about the mage's PPE base.

The stuff that goes away and has to be used is when they have PPE above their max PPE base.

[Axelmania]

I don't think it says anywhere your base has to be at max to tap the 10/melee. Just that you can actively use the 10/melee for casting spells but need to stick around longer (30 minutes) to get your actual base to replenish 10.

[Hotrod]

I've played with Kevin twice. Casters at ley lines and nexuses get their "cost per spell" reduced by the available amount. That's how it works in his games.

[Axelmania]

That'd be the effect if you were only casting 1 spell per round, for sure. Of course, if you were casting 2 spells with a cost sum of 11 or more, you should still probably be out of luck.

[kiralon]

I've played with Kevin twice. Casters at ley lines and nexuses get their "cost per spell" reduced by the available amount. That's how it works in his games.

Lol, Kevin can't even play with the rules as written, that says something about the system.

but I like that idea, i'm stealing it. Pity he hasn't put it in the books.