California:Canon

[Not-a-rogue-scholar]

I am putting together something California.
Here are some of the few things I know are cannon (Official) about Rifts California. I would like to know more about the state, from The Rifter, books, or creators comments. So if you have something official about California, please.

<California:Largely a wilderness with dramatically different regions, from lush forests and subtropical zones to high mountains, plains,
and terrible deserts. Most of the cities throughout the region were obliterated by earthquakes,floods, tidal waves, fires, storms and some of the most devastating plagues to hit the continent. There are pockets of civilization.
<Major leyline and nexus activity in the Los Angeles Forest and Antelope Valley areas .As well as the Inland Empire and San Bernadino
areas.In other words, the south central part of California.
<Psi-stalkers and Simvan raider activity reported on both sides of the north eastern borders of California that links the state with Oregon
and Nevada.
<All major coastal cities are rocked by 1000 foot (330 meter) tall tidal waves.
<Ash from Yellowstone and Mt. St. Helens blankets ground 7-20 feet (2-7 meters) deep during the apocalypse.
<Along the shared border,with Nevada and Arizona, are treasure hunters searching for pre-rift artifacts.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Canon.

One N.

A Cannon is a gun.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Also, there are kingdoms there large enouh for the New Navy to have sold them equipment in quantity.

[Killer Cyborg]

Canon.

One N.

A Cannon is a gun.

Seconded.

https://www.google.com/search?q=define+ ... irefox-b-1

[Mack]

Canon.

One N.

A Cannon is a gun.

Seconded.

https://www.google.com/search?q=define+ ... irefox-b-1

It's a Rifts forum. Not a Webster's Dictionary forum.

Let's be a little more welcoming to a new member.

[Not-a-rogue-scholar]

New West, pp. 21 shows the whole coast of California riddled with new islands, peninsulas, bays and inlets. It appears less than 1/20 of the state is lost to the ocean.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Off the top of my head, the New/Spirit West books and the RMB has text about Calif.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Canon.

One N.

A Cannon is a gun.

Seconded.

https://www.google.com/search?q=define+ ... irefox-b-1

It's a Rifts forum. Not a Webster's Dictionary forum.

Let's be a little more welcoming to a new member.

i wasn't remotely insulting to said new member, and simply corrected his incorrect use of a word so that people would understand what he meant.

I didn't insult the guy, tell him he was stupid, or even hint that at an insult of any kind. And that i then answered his question.

words matter, their meanings matter, and using the correct language and words is key to getting your point across succinctly and preventing misunderstandings. Its entirely likely he didn't understand that they are two different words or their correct meaning - now he knows. We here in the real world call it a "teachable moment".

So, lets pretend that you're not a completely incompetent sanctimonious excuse for a "moderator" who causes way more problems than he ever solves, and who just barged into a thread where nothing was going on to cause an issue because of a childish inability not to play favorites or take shots at people he doesnt like.

Warning: Official Warning issued for insulting language. Mack

[torjones]

Canon.

One N.

A Cannon is a gun.

Seconded.

https://www.google.com/search?q=define+ ... irefox-b-1

It's a Rifts forum. Not a Webster's Dictionary forum.

Let's be a little more welcoming to a new member.

i wasn't remotely insulting to said new member, and simply corrected his incorrect use of a word so that people would understand what he meant.

I didn't insult the guy, tell him he was stupid, or even hint that at an insult of any kind. And that i then answered his question.

words matter, their meanings matter, and using the correct language and words is key to getting your point across succinctly and preventing misunderstandings. Its entirely likely he didn't understand that they are two different words or their correct meaning - now he knows. We here in the real world call it a "teachable moment".

So, lets pretend that you're not a completely incompetent sanctimonious excuse for a "moderator" who causes way more problems than he ever solves, and who just barged into a thread where nothing was going on to cause an issue because of a childish inability not to play favorites or take shots at people he doesnt like.

This kind of thing should be said in private. One should not air their laundry in full view of the public. Consider it a Teachable Moment.

[torjones]

I am putting together something California.
Here are some of the few things I know are cannon (Official) about Rifts California. I would like to know more about the state, from The Rifter, books, or creators comments. So if you have something official about California, please.

<California:Largely a wilderness with dramatically different regions, from lush forests and subtropical zones to high mountains, plains,
and terrible deserts. Most of the cities throughout the region were obliterated by earthquakes,floods, tidal waves, fires, storms and some of the most devastating plagues to hit the continent. There are pockets of civilization.
<Major leyline and nexus activity in the Los Angeles Forest and Antelope Valley areas .As well as the Inland Empire and San Bernadino
areas.In other words, the south central part of California.
<Psi-stalkers and Simvan raider activity reported on both sides of the north eastern borders of California that links the state with Oregon
and Nevada.
<All major coastal cities are rocked by 1000 foot (330 meter) tall tidal waves.
<Ash from Yellowstone and Mt. St. Helens blankets ground 7-20 feet (2-7 meters) deep during the apocalypse.
<Along the shared border,with Nevada and Arizona, are treasure hunters searching for pre-rift artifacts.

Most of those sound reasonable, except for the thousand foot high tidal waves. During the cataclism, that would have been an acceptable thing, but not for it to still be happening. Given the probabilities that those tidal waves are being caused by some kind of creature, or maybe even some mid-ocean event, the tidal waves generated from mid-ocean are circular in nature. they will travel in all directions until they either hit land or expend their energy. A thousand foot high tidal wave has the energy to travel around the world. The level of energy involved is way more than nuclear bombs, it's seriously mind mindbogglingly high energy levels. Do you happen to remember where you found that bit since you're saying that it's already canon? (sources for each would be nice!)

[Not-a-rogue-scholar]

Most of those sound reasonable, except for the thousand foot high tidal waves. During the cataclism, that would have been an acceptable thing, but not for it to still be happening. Given the probabilities that those tidal waves are being caused by some kind of creature, or maybe even some mid-ocean event, the tidal waves generated from mid-ocean are circular in nature. they will travel in all directions until they either hit land or expend their energy. A thousand foot high tidal wave has the energy to travel around the world. The level of energy involved is way more than nuclear bombs, it's seriously mind mindbogglingly high energy levels. Do you happen to remember where you found that bit since you're saying that it's already canon? (sources for each would be nice!) [/quote]


Chaos Earth. pp. 10, at the end of the Haiti/ Cuba paragraph.

[Dr Megaverse]

Spirit West has some information regarding some scattered Native American tribes.

If I'm not mistaken, Canada has some information regarding Centaurs in Western Canada that range into the PNW. I might be wrong.

Check out the atlas, I know it shows some details and shows a rather large ley line running through the Sierras.

[Warshield73]

This kind of thing should be said in private. One should not air their laundry in full view of the public. Consider it a Teachable Moment.

Agreed. Private messages would be great here.

I am putting together something California.
Here are some of the few things I know are cannon (Official) about Rifts California. I would like to know more about the state, from The Rifter, books, or creators comments. So if you have something official about California, please.

<California:Largely a wilderness with dramatically different regions, from lush forests and subtropical zones to high mountains, plains,
and terrible deserts. Most of the cities throughout the region were obliterated by earthquakes,floods, tidal waves, fires, storms and some of the most devastating plagues to hit the continent. There are pockets of civilization.
<Major leyline and nexus activity in the Los Angeles Forest and Antelope Valley areas .As well as the Inland Empire and San Bernadino
areas.In other words, the south central part of California.
<Psi-stalkers and Simvan raider activity reported on both sides of the north eastern borders of California that links the state with Oregon
and Nevada.
<All major coastal cities are rocked by 1000 foot (330 meter) tall tidal waves.
<Ash from Yellowstone and Mt. St. Helens blankets ground 7-20 feet (2-7 meters) deep during the apocalypse.
<Along the shared border,with Nevada and Arizona, are treasure hunters searching for pre-rift artifacts.

Most of those sound reasonable, except for the thousand foot high tidal waves. During the cataclism, that would have been an acceptable thing, but not for it to still be happening. Given the probabilities that those tidal waves are being caused by some kind of creature, or maybe even some mid-ocean event, the tidal waves generated from mid-ocean are circular in nature. they will travel in all directions until they either hit land or expend their energy. A thousand foot high tidal wave has the energy to travel around the world. The level of energy involved is way more than nuclear bombs, it's seriously mind mindbogglingly high energy levels. Do you happen to remember where you found that bit since you're saying that it's already canon? (sources for each would be nice!)

I got a different read from this. It looks to me as if it is saying that it was one 1,000 foot tidal wave during the cataclysm not a recurring event. Now I did a quick scan and I found tidal waves mention in a few books but no specifics as to height so I'm curious were that is as well but given what is in the books 1,000 foot seems more in place on the East coast than the West.

I did a quick search of a few books and only found California mentioned a few books. Most of what you have is in RUE but aside from that the best information is in Spirit West.

We know from WB 30 : D-Bees of NA that M'Raghiile Tree Men and Sasquatch live in parts of the state but that's about it. I found no information in Undersees or Canada about California specifically but it does talk about the west coast in general which might help.

In general the two books I use in California are Underseas and Spirit West as these contain information on the people you are likely to encounter there.

Also, there are kingdoms there large enough for the New Navy to have sold them equipment in quantity.

I couldn't find any mention of this, can you point me to where you found it?

One piece of supposition I've made that I think is backed up by the source material is that more of California will be mountainous than is true in the modern world.

...Rocky Mountains, better known as the Barrier Wall. I have reason to believe these are not the same mountains that existed before the Great Cataclysm, for many are the accounts of the mountains exploding or crumbling to mark the advent of the Cataclysm. Furthermore, pre-Rifts geological descriptions differ greatly from the mountains of today, suggesting the Barrier Wall is a much more recent formation.

This leads me to believe that if the Mountains are taller, they are probably wider too.

[torjones]

I am putting together something California.
Here are some of the few things I know are cannon (Official) about Rifts California. I would like to know more about the state, from The Rifter, books, or creators comments. So if you have something official about California, please.

<All major coastal cities are rocked by 1000 foot (330 meter) tall tidal waves.

Most of those sound reasonable, except for the thousand foot high tidal waves. During the cataclysm, that would have been an acceptable thing, but not for it to still be happening. Given the probabilities that those tidal waves are being caused by some kind of creature, or maybe even some mid-ocean event, the tidal waves generated from mid-ocean are circular in nature. they will travel in all directions until they either hit land or expend their energy. A thousand foot high tidal wave has the energy to travel around the world. The level of energy involved is way more than nuclear bombs, it's seriously mindbogglingly high energy levels. Do you happen to remember where you found that bit since you're saying that it's already canon? (sources for each would be nice!)

I got a different read from this. It looks to me as if it is saying that it was one 1,000 foot tidal wave during the cataclysm not a recurring event. Now I did a quick scan and I found tidal waves mention in a few books but no specifics as to height so I'm curious were that is as well but given what is in the books 1,000 foot seems more in place on the East coast than the West.

I admit that your reading is valid, however due to the unclear nature of the statement, so is mine, though I will admit that yours is more likely correct. Hopefully, he can be persuaded to chime back in with some clarification on this issue as well as the others mentioned.

I do agree with you that one chain of Tsunamis (the proper name for tidal waves that aren't actually caused by the tides, which I'm going to use from now on) would be more appropriate, and more than sufficient for total devastation, which is what I believe I said in my previous reply, quoted above. Even a 40' tsunami, quite small as such things go, is sufficient to wipe out most coastal areas, but not major cities like LA or San Francisco. Regular timber frame housing though would be wiped out.

We should also keep in mind that the worst tsunami on record, the 2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami, killed 227,898 people in 14 different countries. It quite literally erased cities from the world as though they were never there. This series of waves was only 100' high. (30 meters)

The Chicxulub impact the one that wiped out the dinosaurs, caused a Megatsunami (yes, that's the science name for it) that was over 330 feet tall, and secondary Tsunamis up to 100 feet high locally, and up to 50 feet in the North Atlantic and South Pacific. If it had hit the deep ocean rather than the shallow Gulf of Mexico, it would have been nearly 3 MILES in height. Even as it was, it still managed to send tsunamis world wide.

[Not-a-rogue-scholar]

<California:Largely a wilderness with dramatically different regions, from lush forests and subtropical zones to high mountains, plains,

and terrible deserts. Most of the cities throughout the region were obliterated by earthquakes,floods, tidalwaves, fires, storms and some

of the most devastating plagues to hit the continent. There are pockets of civilization.

<Major leyline and nexus activity in the Angeles Forest and Antelope Valley areas .As well as the Inland Empire and San Bernadino

areas.In other words, the southern part of California.

<Psi-stalkers and Simvan raider activity reported on both sides of the north eastern borders of California that links the state with Oregon

and Nevada.

<All major coastal cities were (amended) rocked by 1000 foot (330 meter) tall tidal waves. (Chaos Earth PP. 10)

<Ash from Yellowstone and Mt. St. Helens blankets ground 7-20 feet (2-7 meters) deep during the apocalypse.

<Along the shared border,with Nevada and Arizona, are treasure hunters searching for pre-rift artifacts.

<D-Bees of NA that M'Raghiile Tree Men and Sasquatch live in parts of the state (wb:30) Cite Warshield73) Great find!

<P.A. map shows coast line riddled, from top to bottom of coastline, with new coves, peninsulas, and inlets. But, only les than 4% of the

state looks gone, contrary to the popular San Andreas prediction.

[glitterboy2098]

Also, there are kingdoms there large enough for the New Navy to have sold them equipment in quantity.

I couldn't find any mention of this, can you point me to where you found it?

In the fluff for the merovingian Tank, WB7 Underseas, pg120.
"About a hundred of these tanks have been sold to humans in North America, where they are used by mercenaries or the armed forces of small human kingdoms on the West Coast"

i would say that the low number sold and the use of the word small would suggest that these kingdoms are probably not much bigger than city-states, more in line with Kingsdale or New Lazlo at their biggest.

given the lack of any major nation-states in the canon, i would guess that any local kingdoms probably are lacking in the realm of heavy equipment. lots of infantry and horse cavalry, not much in the way of vehicles, especially stuff like tanks, power armor, and robots. so the new navy being willing to sell them tanks would be a welcome thing, and a way for the new navy to bolster those kingdoms and ensure their survival.

i would presume that the new navy probably also sells them infantry gear like the M-20 assault rifle (pg117). body armor sales would likely be limited to the lighter Navy body armor (pg 118) both of those items are listed as commonly traded. if they were willign to sell them tank though, it is probable that they'd be willing to sell them Ion weaponry like the M-20 rifles and M-2011 pistols, and the LAWS-3 rocket system (all pg116)


i would presume that many of the items available on the west coast would be made by bandito arms.. with their headquarters and factory being at Groom lake NV, they are already well west of the rockies, and pretty close to the west coast. while there is a bit of a nasty desert (death valley to the west, the Mojave to the south west) in the way, with their advanced transport equipment they could easily cross it or go around it. and they'd certainly have heard anything there is to find about kingdoms on the coast, given they were already scouting that way when they found the Groom Lake Facility and decided to become an arms manufacturer.

odds are though they'd have found a village somewhere in California and set up a trading post, and worked with existing traders and caravans as much as possible. minimizes the cost outlay relative to having to build a network from scratch. they probably do send out sales people with such groups though, and probably ran a few sales caravans of their own at first. especially since i doubt that the region has enough wealth that they would generate large enough sales to get much profit.

[kaid]

I believe lemuria at the very end talks a bit about some west coast indian civilizations in passing although its unclear if that includes california or the pacific northwest that we do have at least a bit of info on.

I believe that in Dbees of north america there is some lil cat dude alien that lives in the sequoia forest in cali. It seems like some of cali is left although very little info on it. I think the massive dimensional anomolies that seem to have setup along the rockies make knowing for sure hard.


Also on the tsunami issue some of the biggest tsunami are caused by collapsing volcanos. Given just about every volcano along the ring of fire popped off during the cataclysm I would imagine there was a lot of pretty sizable tsunamis coming from various different sources that would be criss crossing the pacific basin.

[guardiandashi]

I believe lemuria at the very end talks a bit about some west coast indian civilizations in passing although its unclear if that includes california or the pacific northwest that we do have at least a bit of info on.

I believe that in Dbees of north america there is some lil cat dude alien that lives in the sequoia forest in cali. It seems like some of cali is left although very little info on it. I think the massive dimensional anomolies that seem to have setup along the rockies make knowing for sure hard.


Also on the tsunami issue some of the biggest tsunami are caused by collapsing volcanos. Given just about every volcano along the ring of fire popped off during the cataclysm I would imagine there was a lot of pretty sizable tsunamis coming from various different sources that would be criss crossing the pacific basin.

I would say that as mentioned the ring of fire, might be a good place to start to guesstimate how many tsunami attacked the coasts, with a margin for error for things like Hawaii having multiple triggered tsunami large scale fault triggered ones and similar.

I just Google'd an got 452 active and dormant volcanoes in the ring (horseshoe shape more or less) and i am notsure that Hawaii is officially included.

[Not-a-rogue-scholar]

I am putting together something California.
Here are some of the few things I know are cannon (Official) about Rifts California. I would like to know more about the state, from The Rifter, books, or creators comments. So if you have something official about California, please.

<All major coastal cities are rocked by 1000 foot (330 meter) tall tidal waves.

Most of those sound reasonable, except for the thousand foot high tidal waves. During the cataclysm, that would have been an acceptable thing, but not for it to still be happening. Given the probabilities that those tidal waves are being caused by some kind of creature, or maybe even some mid-ocean event, the tidal waves generated from mid-ocean are circular in nature. they will travel in all directions until they either hit land or expend their energy. A thousand foot high tidal wave has the energy to travel around the world. The level of energy involved is way more than nuclear bombs, it's seriously mindbogglingly high energy levels. Do you happen to remember where you found that bit since you're saying that it's already canon? (sources for each would be nice!)

I got a different read from this. It looks to me as if it is saying that it was one 1,000 foot tidal wave during the cataclysm not a recurring event. Now I did a quick scan and I found tidal waves mention in a few books but no specifics as to height so I'm curious were that is as well but given what is in the books 1,000 foot seems more in place on the East coast than the West.

I admit that your reading is valid, however due to the unclear nature of the statement, so is mine, though I will admit that yours is more likely correct. Hopefully, he can be persuaded to chime back in with some clarification on this issue as well as the others mentioned.

I do agree with you that one chain of Tsunamis (the proper name for tidal waves that aren't actually caused by the tides, which I'm going to use from now on) would be more appropriate, and more than sufficient for total devastation, which is what I believe I said in my previous reply, quoted above. Even a 40' tsunami, quite small as such things go, is sufficient to wipe out most coastal areas, but not major cities like LA or San Francisco. Regular timber frame housing though would be wiped out.

We should also keep in mind that the worst tsunami on record, the 2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami, killed 227,898 people in 14 different countries. It quite literally erased cities from the world as though they were never there. This series of waves was only 100' high. (30 meters)

The Chicxulub impact the one that wiped out the dinosaurs, caused a Megatsunami (yes, that's the science name for it) that was over 330 feet tall, and secondary Tsunamis up to 100 feet high locally, and up to 50 feet in the North Atlantic and South Pacific. If it had hit the deep ocean rather than the shallow Gulf of Mexico, it would have been nearly 3 MILES in height. Even as it was, it still managed to send tsunamis world wide.

You are correct. The 1000 footer was at the time of apocalypse. I found the creators really adjusted the map to show the consequences of the wave and California's fault controversy in undersea wb.
If you were to surmise, would the lord of the deep's movements cause unpredictable tsunamis?

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Canon.

One N.

A Cannon is a gun.

Seconded.

https://www.google.com/search?q=define+ ... irefox-b-1

It's a Rifts forum. Not a Webster's Dictionary forum.

Let's be a little more welcoming to a new member.

i wasn't remotely insulting to said new member, and simply corrected his incorrect use of a word so that people would understand what he meant.

I didn't insult the guy, tell him he was stupid, or even hint that at an insult of any kind. And that i then answered his question.

words matter, their meanings matter, and using the correct language and words is key to getting your point across succinctly and preventing misunderstandings. Its entirely likely he didn't understand that they are two different words or their correct meaning - now he knows. We here in the real world call it a "teachable moment".

So, lets pretend that you're not a completely incompetent sanctimonious excuse for a "moderator" who causes way more problems than he ever solves, and who just barged into a thread where nothing was going on to cause an issue because of a childish inability not to play favorites or take shots at people he doesnt like.

This kind of thing should be said in private. One should not air their laundry in full view of the public. Consider it a Teachable Moment.

Incorrect. NOT shining a light on this kind of thing is how it continues to happen. EVERY forum that has a "we dont talk about moderation in public" policy is riddled with corruption because you cant talk about the corruption.

The entire concept of "you should be genteel and hide the dirty laundry" is garbage.

It deserves to be seen..

Consider yourself taught.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Also, there are kingdoms there large enough for the New Navy to have sold them equipment in quantity.

I couldn't find any mention of this, can you point me to where you found it?

Underseas. In the description of the Merovingian tank.

Over 100 of them have been sold to Kingdoms on the West Coast; since we know that Washington and Oregon are basically uninhabited except by non-tech using Indian Preserves.. that leaves Cali.

Theyve also sold Iwo-Jima class ships, and other gear to those kingdoms as well (over 250 Iwo Jimas, though some of those assuredly went to Tritonia and other trading partners).

[torjones]

It's a Rifts forum. Not a Webster's Dictionary forum.
Let's be a little more welcoming to a new member.

i wasn't remotely insulting to said new member, and simply corrected his incorrect use of a word so that people would understand what he meant.
I didn't insult the guy, tell him he was stupid, or even hint that at an insult of any kind. And that i then answered his question.
words matter, their meanings matter, and using the correct language and words is key to getting your point across succinctly and preventing misunderstandings. Its entirely likely he didn't understand that they are two different words or their correct meaning - now he knows. We here in the real world call it a "teachable moment".
So, lets pretend that you're not a completely incompetent sanctimonious excuse for a "moderator" who causes way more problems than he ever solves, and who just barged into a thread where nothing was going on to cause an issue because of a childish inability not to play favorites or take shots at people he doesn't like.

This kind of thing should be said in private. One should not air their laundry in full view of the public. Consider it a Teachable Moment.

Incorrect. NOT shining a light on this kind of thing is how it continues to happen. EVERY forum that has a "we don't talk about moderation in public" policy is riddled with corruption because you cant talk about the corruption.
The entire concept of "you should be genteel and hide the dirty laundry" is garbage.
It deserves to be seen..
Consider yourself taught.

Incorrect yourself. It's not about being genteel or otherwise snooty, it's about morals and manners. It's also not about the person you're insulting being a mod. Praise publicly, chastise in private. Manners Makes The Man. This does not mean that you can't talk about moderation in public, you just don't badmouth someone to their face in public. I believe It's even against the forum rules:

No name calling, insults, flames, harassment, etc. Feel free to disagree with each other, but do so in a civilized manner. Likewise attacks on Kevin, Carmen, Alex, Wayne and any other staffer or freelancer will not be tolerated.

(emphasis mine)
You were being decidedly uncivilized, Manners are what make people civilized, the person you were being uncivilized to is, I believe, considered to be a Staffer. It was most certainly a quite rude attack on such a person. Regardless of it being against the rules of the forum, it's inappropriate behavior in an otherwise civilized society.
You clearly have issues with this particular moderator, but that is something that you should take to the other mods or the admins (NMI maybe?), at least the specifics. The other people on this forum can do nothing about it, you are merely breeding ill will. Take the behavior up with someone who can do something about it so you don't reduce your estimation in the eyes of others and you accomplish your goal of getting the behavior you believe to be inappropriate at the very least looked at. If it never gets taken up with the moderators bosses, they won't know something is even potentially wrong.
Yes, that means that a Mod should also send a message privately with the warning instead of putting you on blast like that initial "friendly warning" message, but your response was clearly in the wrong, which is very likely why you picked up the "official warning" for it. Consider yourself taught.