How persecuted are your psychics?

[Library Ogre]

So, since it came up in another thread, I went looking for notes about psychics and persecution in Palladium Fantasy. Most of it comes down to a single paragraph in the Psychic Sensitive PCC:

The life of the psychic is not always an easy one. Although adventurers and mercenaries are usually quick to accept a psychic among their group, many normal folk fear them as bewitched, inhuman monsters or frightening mutants. These people fear what they don't understand so they shun, chase away, or even attack characters with psychic abilities. Likewise, even in communities, like those in Bizantium, the Western Empire and Timiro, where magic and psionics are considered to be commonplace, psychics are often accused or suspected of mind control and other forms of mental manipulation. This fear and suspicion is not groundless paranoia, history is filled with Mind Mages who have used their incredible powers to shape, manipulate, conquer or destroy kingdoms. The Mind Mage is among the most feared P.C.C.s on the planet. By contrast, the Psi-Healer is the most respected of the psychics.

(PFRPG2e, p. 156)

To my reading, that is couched in indefinite qualifiers. "Not always." "Usually". "Many", but not most. "Often". That leaves a lot of wiggle room where psychics, especially those with less powerful or more useful abilities (q.v. Psi-Healers) are welcomed.

But how are your psychics treated, in general? Can you think of anything from the world books where psychics are specifically called out for anti-psychic bigotry, or pro-psychic stances?

[Veknironth]

Well, I am perhaps the foremost Mind Mage hater in the forums so this is right up my alley. In the games we played, the most active Mind Mage was one in our group. He was somewhat disliked, mainly because the player played him as a bit of an arrogant jerk. It was some pretty good role-playing. Now, as many people mentioned in the other thread and as was written in the quote text, the powers of the mind mage are frightening. Sure, there are a lot of people with powers and people will accept or fear them to varying degrees. Warlocks seem to have a good reputation even though they become weapons of mass destruction by level seven, and can summon elementals who are WMD's even earlier. But they can't alter your memory or take over your body. Those invasive things that a mind mage can do are the things that make one leery.

Now, the lower level psionic like minor and major weren't considered an issue. Minor psionics might have powers that aren't even noticeable to the observer. If you have Sixth Sense and Meditation, who would know? You could have some investigator who has Read Object and See Aura Someone like a psi-healer is probably going to be revered because all of those powers are helping the village or whatever. So I think the question for these folks is what powers do they possess and which ones do they display? And all of this can be altered by a person's comportment.

That's for individuals. Now for the powers, I think it follows similar lines. Healing powers are probably going to be well received. Physical powers, probably not. Seeing someone move objects with his or her mind, set fires, etc. are going to make the observer wonder "what if they use that power on me?" The sensitive powers are tricky. Most of them are subtle and not noticed. However, because of this they are probably the most feared. If you somehow know a person is a mind mage, like they perform psychic surgery and then form a psi-sword in front of a crowd, then you might worry that the mind mage has the feared ability to read your thoughts or change what you think. It's the array of powers that the mind mage has that causes fear.

I'd expect religions to be against both Wizardry and Psionics. They'd prefer their followers to place all of their faith and PPE into the gods. You wouldn't want some other person who isn't affiliated with your deity or pantheon to provide miracles without having all their daily PPE send to the god.

This is not addressing the main post, but from a purely mechanics point of view Mind Mages are a terror. They enact any of their powers with one attack action. In the time it would take a Wizard to cast Fireball, the Mind Mage could erect a TK Forcefield around someone, place a Pillar of Flame inside of it, and then use Fuel Flame for fun.

So in summation, Mind Mages are feared. They might be politely asked not to walk into town but a direct confrontation with one is ill-advised. So perhaps there aren't a lot of lynch mobs. People with psionics could be accepted or not. The standard Palladium resident would probably see if as neutral, but they might have been taught it is vile or dangerous, but that could be the same for just about anything.

-Vek
"Never trust a Mind Mage."

[Prysus]

But how are your psychics treated, in general? Can you think of anything from the world books where psychics are specifically called out for anti-psychic bigotry, or pro-psychic stances?

Greetings and Salutations. In my games, I generally don't worry much about the bigotry. But, I also believe that it's part of the setting that it should have bigotry involved, and it just doesn't suit my personal preferences to running a game.

Though I did include it into one of the backgrounds of a character I once ran. He demonstrated his abilities in public to help someone, and the town became horrified and soon turned against him. He would've been lynched, had he not escaped in time. But that was part of his story (not something the G.M. did), and during game he always did his best to hide his powers so no one would publicly ever discover what he was (and he hid it well).

As for the World Books, the only other reference that comes to mind is Western Empire and Lord Itomas (page 30-32). This is the actual emperor, who is noted for bringing the Empire to heights it hasn't known in a long time and reducing taxes on the people, yet he has to avoid using his psionics or the people will come to fear him. This is why he's noted as favoring subtle abilities. There would be no doubt be politics involved as well, but the fact psionics are what would allow the politics to turn the people on him is also telling.

While the Psychic Sensitive note is the most prominent that comes to mind, I can also think of the Psi-Healer.

The Psi-Healer is the most respected and honored of all the psionic P.C.C., even those who charge outrageous sums for their services. Many people believe them to be holy men, endowed with the healing power from the gods ...

While we are struck with another vague term as "many", here we see it used to justify people liking Psi-Healers. They're not psychics, they're "holy men, endowed ... from the gods."

That's all for now. Farewell and safe journeys.

[kiralon]

In my games those who are healers are generally revered by the lower classes and viewed by some suspicion by those in power.
Those who are found out to be mind mages are either asked to work for the government(rarely, have to be already friendly), Told to never use their powers whilst in the kingdom and if they want to stay they will be checked out regularly or leave and never come back on pain of death (most common).
Those who have committed a crime using psionics are blindfolded and gagged until their hearing (which is usually an emergency session) and they are beheaded asap, as holding them is too expensive and impractical. (Unless they are a nobles son etc)

[Hotrod]

All the powers in the Healing category are either too subtle to notice or not threatening. Psi-healers and major/minor psychics who choose these powers aren't likely to face any significant persecution, because these powers are almost exclusively helpful.

Just under half of the Physical category are obvious, intrinsically showy, and threatening to some degree. Psychics who use ectoplasm, telekinesis, teleport object, spontaneous combustion, et cetera are likely to face some persecution and mistrust, unless they are very careful about how they use them. These physical powers tend to look similar to magic effects, so folks may treat psychics with these kinds of powers similar to how they might treat a wizard or mystic. However, these powers can and often do come with other, more threatening and scary psychic powers, so they may face some prejudice.

Many powers in the Sensitive category are liable to bring the worst sort of persecution. Being able to see things and know things about other people, being able to read minds, and being able to manipulate others is what tends to creep people out the most about psychics, especially those who don't keep what they learn from their abilities to themselves. Communing with animals and spirits, Astral projection, Object Read, See Aura, and Telepathy are particularly scary to laypeople and are likely to bring suspicion, prejudice, and persecution.

Powers in the Super category tend to be the most obvious and the most threatening, which is a major reason why Mind Mages are particularly feared.

[Braden Campbell]

How does Joe Palladium know the difference between a display of psychic power and a wizardly effect? Why would one group more more feared/hated than the other?

[Kraynic]

How does Joe Palladium know the difference between a display of psychic power and a wizardly effect? Why would one group more more feared/hated than the other?

Probably because wizardry is usually noticeable. Casting a spell isn't something that can be disguised as scratching your elbow (or at least I don't allow that in my games). On the other hand, what outward sign is there of someone trying to read your mind? Is the spending of psionic energy visible in some way? Do they have to squint real hard to read your mind? I think that is the scary thing about psionics. There is no outward sign, and no way to pick the psion out of a crowd. That isn't to say that magic isn't scary and can't do horrible things to you. Magic is usually much less secretive about it. Just the mystery of psionics will make it seem more dangerous.

Outside of Byzantium, I haven't really dealt with it much in my games. However, that may be because I tell people that attempting to Hypnotic Suggest your way into free gear from merchants is a good way to end up imprisoned and/or executed. With that out of the way, people tend to keep their mind to themselves and use more passive information gathering abilities around npcs.

[kiralon]

How does Joe Palladium know the difference between a display of psychic power and a wizardly effect? Why would one group more more feared/hated than the other?

Wizards wear robes, mind mages wear soft leather, chainmail, full plate or armour with babies tied to it, depending what they are fighting.
Mind mages are pretty much impossible to stop without killing them.
They can wipe your mind and make you think you're a chicken
or worse, they can assassinate the king, then wipe your mind and make you think you did it.
Bugger all things that protect from psionics
if you aint psionic your base save is 15+ rather than 12+
Mind mages can do a 20d6 Blast at level 1
The regenerate isp faster than a wizard does ppe
They can regenerate ISP even when being tortured/stopped from sleeping.
Are a munchkins wet dream. You get all your game enders by lvl 5.
No save vs telekinesis (they pick you up turn you around so you cant parry and backstab you to death).
Or use the ol levitate drop kill method.
They can teleport things by touch
They can rip your heart out of your chest by touch no save.
They can get hth expert
they can create a shield to parry energy blasts at -3
can create a sword that does 6d6 damage at level 4 that cant be taken away from them without death.
can create airtight forcefields around things
and can touch the death star and automatically know how to use it, or a car, or a giant suit of power armour etc.
Can take hth assassin or hth martial arts if they want to.

But otherwise mind mages are fine.

[Veknironth]

Well, Braden asks an interesting question. Most of what we are considering are the powers as listed in the Palladium books. We have all the knowledge about what can be done and how the various OCCs do it. But the people in the world don't have this handy guide to the rules of their lives. It's entirely possible that a remote location wouldn't know the difference between psionics, magic spells, witchcraft, divine intervention, etc.. They might react to it in all manner of ways - fear, awe, worship, whatever. Now, these are going to be people who don't know that these powers exist. They've never encountered them or heard tell. Once they do encounter them I expect their opinions if the powers would be colored by the actions of the person wielding said powers.

As for the more educated or enlightened Palladium chap, I guess they'll base their opinions on experience, study, or word of mouth. If it's experience then a lot will depend on that individual's experience with the powered person. If it's study or hearsay, you're going to have people fear the mind mage based on what they might be able to do. You know or suspect that the person can do all of the sneaky, invasive things that have been enumerated in previous posts and you are going to be worried about mind mages in advance. That could lead to the persecution. And combinations of these can occur. For example, someone has a bad experience with a mind mage and imparts that distrust into others. So, the persecution will be an expression of pre-existing ideas applied to anyone that is either suspected of being a psionicist, proven to be one, or has admitted to it.

Of course, how do you know what's what? A learned person might be able to recognize a psi-sword or psi-shield if he or she sees it. They could know that only psionicists can erect an invisible force-field and recognize it if they see it in action. But can they distinguish between a wizard's fireball and a Pyrokinesis fireball? Can they tell the difference between Telekinesis, Super Telekinesis, and the spell Telekinesis? I think some people could but most could not. So, unless the Mind Mage tells you it was him or her and that he or she did it on purpose you might not know. However, you could have a standing rule of trusting wizards and not mind mages. So, assuming you have the resources, you could question or examine anyone who is shown having such powers. See Aura, which ironically requires either psionics or magic, would tell you if someone had the requisite PPE to cast a bunch of spells or if that person had psionic ability. But absent any extra sensory information it's probably impossible. So any society that wants to put into place a prohibition against wizards or psionists should have the means. Laws don't matter if they can't be enforced.

-Vek
"Never trust a mind mage."

[kiralon]

That's one of the reasons the world is 3 days old, like many other things, people would have developed methods for detecting psionicists and preventing psionic attack beyond what is available now (Which is pretty much nothing). There are militia and guards to protect against mundane thievery/violence, so why aren't there things to protect against the supernatural.

[Orin J.]

-how are your psychics treated, in general? Can you think of anything from the world books where psychics are specifically called out for anti-psychic bigotry, or pro-psychic stances?

i'm going to be blunt, nearly every time i've run palladium FRP i've left out the psychics entirely. part of the time because they confused the people i was teaching the game to, and part of the time because my usual players were all emotionally scarred from the old D&D garbage psychic system.

that said, i've always assumed they were treated like normal men of magic by everyone except other mages (who know something's up, and know the psychic is deeply lacking in the "greater truths" of magic) and that both were treated more or less the same. after all, it's much easier to simply say you were a wizard than you had been born with powers you don't understand and avoid accusations of being devil spawn. why risk the trouble when you can ******** your way out of it?