I'm working on a way for a mage to boost a spell that they know to a higher level, either to provide additional protection or to do more damage when needed.
I want it to balance out so it is something a mage can do, but it is going to cost.
My first thought i to have it cost the standard casting cot (15 PPE) plus the standard cost per each additional level in power.
Example: A third level wizard wants to finish off a troll before it finishes off his knight buddy. He has 120 PPE left. He wants to cast Call Lightning at 10th level power, doing 10D6 damage. It costs him 15 to cast it at level 3 power. To cast at level 10, he needs to add another 7 levels of PPE into the spell, for an additional 105 PPE. Total cost, 120 PPE. The wizard blasts the troll to smithereens, saving the knight, but he is now drained for the rest of the battle.
Has anyone else played with this idea? What did you find that worked for game balance?
Boosting spells
Moderators: Immortals, Supreme Beings, Old Ones
-
Whiskeyjack
- Adventurer
- Posts: 687
- Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:35 pm
- Location: Thunder Bay, NW Ontario
-
Library Ogre
- Palladium Books® Freelance Writer
- Posts: 10311
- Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2001 1:01 am
- Comment: My comments do not necessarily represent the views of Palladium Books.
- Location: Texas
- Contact:
Re: Boosting spells
Some other systems have built it in, but Palladium, sadly, does not, and I think their numbers are generally haphazard enough to make it difficult to generalize.
If I were to do something like this, I'd be inclined to make it paying additional PPE for an additional chunk of levels... so your example wizard would spend 45 PPE and cast as a 9th level wizard, or 60 and 12th level, rather than 105 to get to 10th.
Another option might be paying the level of the spell as a premium to increase the effective level by 1, though I worry that gets pitifully cheap at higher levels.
If I were to do something like this, I'd be inclined to make it paying additional PPE for an additional chunk of levels... so your example wizard would spend 45 PPE and cast as a 9th level wizard, or 60 and 12th level, rather than 105 to get to 10th.
Another option might be paying the level of the spell as a premium to increase the effective level by 1, though I worry that gets pitifully cheap at higher levels.
-overproduced by Martin Hannett
When I see someone "fisking" these days my first inclination is to think "That person doesn't have much to say, and says it in volume." -John Scalzi
Happiness is a long block list.
If you don't want to be vilified, don't act like a villain.
The Megaverse runs on vibes.
All Palladium Articles
Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
When I see someone "fisking" these days my first inclination is to think "That person doesn't have much to say, and says it in volume." -John Scalzi
Happiness is a long block list.
If you don't want to be vilified, don't act like a villain.
The Megaverse runs on vibes.
All Palladium Articles
Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
Re: Boosting spells
I also give a chance of failure, spell casting is a skill so give a chance of failure so that the extra ppe can be lost. I recommend just writing up a table having a critical success cost no extra ppe, a critical failure use up all the casters ppe or the ppe of the spell * the level of the spell.
Spellcasting has %100 chance of working, and higher levels cost more xp per level so each level you go up should be harder than the previous so
Overburn
It costs the spells ppe again to activate overburn (so fire ball being 10 and cast at lvl 5 by a level 3 wizard would cost and extra 10 to activate overburn)
Every level has % chance of failure equal to the level * 5 percent
so going to lvl 4 is %20 chance of failure and going to lvl 5 is %25 so all told it has a %45 chance to fail, but the caster can spend PPE at 1ppe to %1 ratio to reduce the failure chance.
So if this wizard spent another 20 ppe (total of 40 now) it would reduce the spell failure chance to %25 so the caster has to roll below %75 to Cast the spell. 76 - 99 is failure, %100 is always a critical failure and a %1 is a critical success (Doesn't cost any extra ppe at all).
Write up a crit fail table (The 10,000 random magic effect netbook is a lot of fun for this) and hey presto - overburn.
Spellcasting has %100 chance of working, and higher levels cost more xp per level so each level you go up should be harder than the previous so
Overburn
It costs the spells ppe again to activate overburn (so fire ball being 10 and cast at lvl 5 by a level 3 wizard would cost and extra 10 to activate overburn)
Every level has % chance of failure equal to the level * 5 percent
so going to lvl 4 is %20 chance of failure and going to lvl 5 is %25 so all told it has a %45 chance to fail, but the caster can spend PPE at 1ppe to %1 ratio to reduce the failure chance.
So if this wizard spent another 20 ppe (total of 40 now) it would reduce the spell failure chance to %25 so the caster has to roll below %75 to Cast the spell. 76 - 99 is failure, %100 is always a critical failure and a %1 is a critical success (Doesn't cost any extra ppe at all).
Write up a crit fail table (The 10,000 random magic effect netbook is a lot of fun for this) and hey presto - overburn.
-
Whiskeyjack
- Adventurer
- Posts: 687
- Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:35 pm
- Location: Thunder Bay, NW Ontario
Re: Boosting spells
Thanks for the feedback. Some good ideas there. I'll mull it over and see what I can come up with for the game.
Re: Boosting spells
Whiskeyjack wrote:I'm working on a way for a mage to boost a spell that they know to a higher level, either to provide additional protection or to do more damage when needed.
I want it to balance out so it is something a mage can do, but it is going to cost.
My first thought i to have it cost the standard casting cot (15 PPE) plus the standard cost per each additional level in power.
Example: A third level wizard wants to finish off a troll before it finishes off his knight buddy. He has 120 PPE left. He wants to cast Call Lightning at 10th level power, doing 10D6 damage. It costs him 15 to cast it at level 3 power. To cast at level 10, he needs to add another 7 levels of PPE into the spell, for an additional 105 PPE. Total cost, 120 PPE. The wizard blasts the troll to smithereens, saving the knight, but he is now drained for the rest of the battle.
Has anyone else played with this idea? What did you find that worked for game balance?
Ah yes “going nova”. It can change balance drastically...but then Palladium never really has been balanced (and the creator quotes several times in the rules how the system is not supposed to be balanced.)
However I do not find the potential for a wizard to do say 20 dice damage (and then have bingo PPE) to be OP to begin with. Because that level 2 Wolfen barbarian with paired axes is doing 40d6+64 (or a mere 20d6+32 if he parries) every round...and that’s assuming he has a PS under 16 (unlikely).
I would keep it simple as well. Your approach is pretty straightforward and I’d leave it at that. Don’t see the need for magic fumbles. A wizard with no mana is going to be in enough trouble already...
Necromance if you want to.
We can bring your friends to life.
But your friends aren't dead and if they aren't dead.
Well, they're no friends of mine.
We can bring your friends to life.
But your friends aren't dead and if they aren't dead.
Well, they're no friends of mine.
-
drewkitty ~..~
- Monk
- Posts: 17782
- Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
- Location: Eastvale, calif
- Contact:
Re: Boosting spells
Meta-Magic.....thou it's not called that....R30
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
-
ShadowLogan
- Palladin
- Posts: 7671
- Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:50 am
- Location: WI
Re: Boosting spells
Megaversally Rifts WB16 Federation of Magic (also in Book of Magic, not sure if they appear in a later book in PF line) does have a piggy back spells (so create variants that boost aspects):
"Energize Spell" (BoM pg111), extends the duration of a spell that is non-instant duration
"Illusion Booster" (BoM pg112), extends the duration of illusion spells
"Illusion Manipulation" (BoM pg128), allows one to edit an illusion spell (ex, an illusionary wall can be edited to show damage from an attack)
Rifts Techno-Wizards are also able to manipulate outputs of spells in their devices to better match what they need (an example was to trade strength for duration in "Carpet of Adhesion" to create useful sticky tires for better traction). Perhaps all wizards can do this with their spells, rebalancing parameters (ie I trade range for increased damage), they just don't usually preferring to stick to the default balancing.
Alternatively there are also two Wizard Invocations that establish that you can "hold" a spell ("Create Magic Scroll" and "Talisman") w/o durational constraints that are part of the PF2E setting. So why not a spell/ritual (or spell casting ability though I'd go with spell/ritual) designed to temporarily "hold" a casting like a Scroll or Talsiman, and then you cast the spell you want repeatedly to charge it up for release. This would obviously take more time to cast (you are essentially super charging the spell), and likely needs to be further fleshed out.
"Energize Spell" (BoM pg111), extends the duration of a spell that is non-instant duration
"Illusion Booster" (BoM pg112), extends the duration of illusion spells
"Illusion Manipulation" (BoM pg128), allows one to edit an illusion spell (ex, an illusionary wall can be edited to show damage from an attack)
Rifts Techno-Wizards are also able to manipulate outputs of spells in their devices to better match what they need (an example was to trade strength for duration in "Carpet of Adhesion" to create useful sticky tires for better traction). Perhaps all wizards can do this with their spells, rebalancing parameters (ie I trade range for increased damage), they just don't usually preferring to stick to the default balancing.
Alternatively there are also two Wizard Invocations that establish that you can "hold" a spell ("Create Magic Scroll" and "Talisman") w/o durational constraints that are part of the PF2E setting. So why not a spell/ritual (or spell casting ability though I'd go with spell/ritual) designed to temporarily "hold" a casting like a Scroll or Talsiman, and then you cast the spell you want repeatedly to charge it up for release. This would obviously take more time to cast (you are essentially super charging the spell), and likely needs to be further fleshed out.