Selection of O.C.C.s from sourcebooks

[Soldier of Od]

Hi everybody,
What are your thoughts on which races from the original PFRPG main book or other books can select O.C.C.s that come out in sourcebooks/world books published after the initial publication of the race? In almost all cases, new O.C.C.s do not state what races can select them. For some it is obvious - if a race can choose any Men-of-Arms O.C.C. and a new one comes out, they can select it. But with others it is more difficult. And it becomes more confusing with entirely new categories of O.C.C., such as the entertainer category. Can an orc be an actor? Can a hobgoblin be a prestidigitator? And some new O.C.C.s don't even define which category they fall into. I'm not talking about what races may be likely to choose a particular O.C.C., but hard rules - can they, even if it might be considered unlikely or rare?
Is there anything I am missing that defines this? If not, what are your thoughts?
Thanks.

[drewkitty ~..~]

All the PF2 core book races can take any OCC or PCC in any of the PF source'/world- books, with accordance to their limitations.

Hob. Prest. : yes, but they wouldn't get much work in human/elf countries.
Orc Thesbien: yes, but same problem as the stage magician.

non-defined CCs: ....aahhh...stop...read the text and think about it. It is not hard to sus-out what the different CCs are through reading the class text and thinking about it.

To give an example: the juggler/knife throw is an adventurer because his main job is as an entertainer nor a fighter. Even thou they can throw things (knives/axes....) really well.

If you want to see how I see them scan this topic for the CCs from the PF books.
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=127182
All the books from the different games are mixed up, the core book and a few are in the 2nd post and the Bizantium book is near the end.
Wrote it up during the recession with the books I had then.

[Kraynic]

I tend to treat the actual OCC title is less important that the variety of skills it gives to mold the character. This is very definitely true of the entertainer classes.

That hobgoblin prestidigitator could very well be the very best thief you have ever seen when working a crowd, but isn't much on being able to stab someone in the back because blood is gross. (Seriously, a prestidigitator could make an incredibly good "light fingered" character.)

That orc might be the joker (village idiot?) of the tribe. Every group has to have one. It is almost a requirement isn't it? Not that it has to be an actor, but it would certainly work. On a more serious note, I could envision an orc actor being more of a lore master/storyteller.

That is pretty much how I look at new OCCs. Are they something that I can imagine fitting in some way with the way a certain race tends to lead life? Then I just go from there.

[Tiltowait]

My thoughts on this matter is to allow access. Just because not everyone may think of a Kobold Entertainer...doesn't necessarily mean there cannot be one. Of course I even allow 'exceptions' for race + cc combos with the thought that PC heroes are unique or special but you don't have to.

[Soldier of Od]

Thank you for all your opinions so far - but, I'm less interested in how people choose to redefine classes, or what exceptions to the rules they will allow, than I am in what the rules actually say. Some races make entire categories available (such as saying they may choose any men-of-arms or clergy), but others make a list of specific character classes to choose from, leaving no room for expansion other than what a GM chooses to allow. I would like more to go on than just my own judgement if possible. Does anyone know of any rules or notes hidden somewhere in the books that will help? Thanks.
Also, does anyone know if the Rifts books address this issue?

[drewkitty ~..~]

What I said; both my post in this topic and in the topic I gave a Link to; is 'Read the text to see what the text defines it as'.

In other words, Do the critical reading of the text yourself and see, without preconceptions, what the text of the class says it is.

And it is apparent to me you didn't do the critical reading of my former post. Otherwise you would not of misunderstood, as you post says you did, what I said. Through your dismissive accusations.

-----

Rifts books do not have any rules that apply to the PF game.

[Kraynic]

Thank you for all your opinions so far - but, I'm less interested in how people choose to redefine classes, or what exceptions to the rules they will allow, than I am in what the rules actually say. Some races make entire categories available (such as saying they may choose any men-of-arms or clergy), but others make a list of specific character classes to choose from, leaving no room for expansion other than what a GM chooses to allow. I would like more to go on than just my own judgement if possible. Does anyone know of any rules or notes hidden somewhere in the books that will help? Thanks.
Also, does anyone know if the Rifts books address this issue?

If you want things to be that concrete, you often will be disappointed with Palladium rule books. There isn't anything that I am aware of that would be that specific.

[Soldier of Od]

Thank you for all your opinions so far - but, I'm less interested in how people choose to redefine classes, or what exceptions to the rules they will allow, than I am in what the rules actually say. Some races make entire categories available (such as saying they may choose any men-of-arms or clergy), but others make a list of specific character classes to choose from, leaving no room for expansion other than what a GM chooses to allow. I would like more to go on than just my own judgement if possible. Does anyone know of any rules or notes hidden somewhere in the books that will help? Thanks.
Also, does anyone know if the Rifts books address this issue?

If you want things to be that concrete, you often will be disappointed with Palladium rule books. There isn't anything that I am aware of that would be that specific.

Yeah, I figured as much. I didn't expect something as concrete as "this is how to deal with new O.C.C.s", but I was hoping there might be something useful hidden away that I didn't know about. That happens with Palladium books too!

[Veknironth]

Well, I think as a matter of canon you're stuck in a grey area. Plus, you're going to have books that come out at different times (assuming there will be more PFRPG books)Without text, there is nothing to preculde a particular race from taking a new OCC but there is also nothing allowing it either. Some of that is oversight, or just the writer having the idea and not knowing how PCs will find a way to corrupt it. Some of it could be poor editing.

-Vek
"Without the odd editing choices, what would we discuss here?"