Giant-sized weapons

[Soldier of Od]

Back in the day, from 1st edition Palladium Fantasy, where it said "giant weapons do one additional die of damage", we always assumed, as it didn't say what sort of die, that it simply increased the number of dice used for that weapon, so a giant-sized 2D6 weapon does 3D6, a giant-sized 2D4 weapon does 3D4, 1D8 becomes 2D8, etc. They copied and pasted the same note into 2nd edition, though the weapon damages changed. I'm sure we read somewhere in 2nd edition that what it should say is "giant weapons do one additional six-sided die of damage", and that is how we have been playing it in recent years, but I just came to look for that reference now and I can't find it. All the references to giant-sized weapons I can find just say "additional die of damage". Does anyone know where I can find the reference that makes this clear (if indeed it does exist!)? Thanks.

[Veknironth]

Well, I've always gone with an extra die, whatever that die happened to be.

-Vek
"I've also heavily house ruled weapon damage."

[Kraynic]

This has been a thought provoking post. I have used the extra d6 (with house rules to add more based on overall size), but I thought it was out of the 1st Edition Revised book. I thought maybe it was in the descriptions of the playable large races. Upon looking, there is nothing that I can find in the core book that might have given me that idea.

The only thing I can come up with is that it is from NPCs contained in Book 2: The Old Ones and Book 3: The High Seas. An example from Book 2 would be the attendants of Fire Brand, the Giant on page 135 with his 3d6 axe, 2d6 scimitar, though the bullwhip only steps up from 1d8 to 2d6 and the dagger only went from 1d6 to 1d8. On the other hand, there is also a 2d8 trident on pg 138 with Master Slayer, and a 2d8 iron staff on the next page with Brother Wind.

In Book 3, there is a Nimro Giant on page 123 that has a 2d8 trident, a 2d6 short sword, but also several knives and daggers are listed as still only doing 1d6.

So... do as you will?

[Library Ogre]

I've always used "extra die of whatever size", but I also worked on some alternate rules that converted most damages to d4s.

[Soldier of Od]

This has been a thought provoking post. I have used the extra d6 (with house rules to add more based on overall size), but I thought it was out of the 1st Edition Revised book. I thought maybe it was in the descriptions of the playable large races. Upon looking, there is nothing that I can find in the core book that might have given me that idea.

The only thing I can come up with is that it is from NPCs contained in Book 2: The Old Ones and Book 3: The High Seas. An example from Book 2 would be the attendants of Fire Brand, the Giant on page 135 with his 3d6 axe, 2d6 scimitar, though the bullwhip only steps up from 1d8 to 2d6 and the dagger only went from 1d6 to 1d8. On the other hand, there is also a 2d8 trident on pg 138 with Master Slayer, and a 2d8 iron staff on the next page with Brother Wind.

In Book 3, there is a Nimro Giant on page 123 that has a 2d8 trident, a 2d6 short sword, but also several knives and daggers are listed as still only doing 1d6.

So... do as you will?

Thanks, guys. Kraynic - most of those damages correspond to first edition (e.g. a 1D8 trident, giant-sized, does 2D8). I don't know whether you are looking at first or second edition books, but I'm guessing they just forgot to update the weapon damages for those NPCs in second edition. I suppose the several knives are just normal sized knives. Don't know about the irregular ones, but whatever the reason, they aren't saying +1D6 either! I guess it just is one more of whatever the damage dice are, then. Not sure where I got the +1D6 from! Thanks for all of your help.

[Kraynic]

Kraynic - most of those damages correspond to first edition (e.g. a 1D8 trident, giant-sized, does 2D8). I don't know whether you are looking at first or second edition books, but I'm guessing they just forgot to update the weapon damages for those NPCs in second edition. I suppose the several knives are just normal sized knives. Don't know about the irregular ones, but whatever the reason, they aren't saying +1D6 either! I guess it just is one more of whatever the damage dice are, then. Not sure where I got the +1D6 from! Thanks for all of your help.

I should have specified that those are all 1st Edition. I have been using that since '92 and I don't remember when (it had to be near the beginning) I started using the additional 1d6 for giant size. So a wolfen with a longsword would be doing 1d8 + 1d6 + 2 (for the bare weapon damage, since the longsword is 1d8+2 in 1E), but now I have no idea where I got that notion from. I even looked in the Compendium of Weapons, Armour, and Castles to see if there was something in there. I no longer have a copy of TMNT or the original Heroes Unlimited, so I don't know if there would have been something in one of those. I don't remember having access to anything else back in that time frame, so it kind of puzzles me where I got the "add 1d6 for large weapons" idea.

And I never really gave it a second thought for all this time until you posted. lol

[drewkitty ~..~]

If you figure giant weapons are used by ...giants....any extra damage they ""should do"" his covered/provided by the giant's high PS score.

Then there is also that said weapons are heavy. And there are existing rules that GMs can import from HU about damages by weight or by speed. That can be added to the 'nominal' damages for giant weapons.

[Reagren Wright]

From Mount Nimiro souccebook page 19: Don't forget that any weapon attacks from a Giant gain an additional 1D6 damage, due to the weapon's size and weight,
plus the Giant's P.S. damage bonus is applied to all hand weapons (axe, knife, sword, club, etc.). The P.S. bonus does not apply to the bow and arrow,
sling or similar weapons.

[Soldier of Od]

From Mount Nimiro souccebook page 19: Don't forget that any weapon attacks from a Giant gain an additional 1D6 damage, due to the weapon's size and weight,
plus the Giant's P.S. damage bonus is applied to all hand weapons (axe, knife, sword, club, etc.). The P.S. bonus does not apply to the bow and arrow,
sling or similar weapons.

Thanks, Reagren; I knew I'd seen it specifically say 1D6 somewhere.
I'm tempted to house rule it and add that 1D6 as an extra bonus for true giants, based on the wording - it always bugged me that an 8ft tall ogre's weapon has the same bonus to damage as an 18ft tall true giant's weapon, when it would be so much larger.

[Kraynic]

From Mount Nimiro souccebook page 19: Don't forget that any weapon attacks from a Giant gain an additional 1D6 damage, due to the weapon's size and weight,
plus the Giant's P.S. damage bonus is applied to all hand weapons (axe, knife, sword, club, etc.). The P.S. bonus does not apply to the bow and arrow,
sling or similar weapons.

Thanks, Reagren; I knew I'd seen it specifically say 1D6 somewhere.
I'm tempted to house rule it and add that 1D6 as an extra bonus for true giants, based on the wording - it always bugged me that an 8ft tall ogre's weapon has the same bonus to damage as an 18ft tall true giant's weapon, when it would be so much larger.

What I have done is to leave the 1d6 for everything labeled as using "giant" weapons that has an average height below 12 ft. I add another die at 12+, and another at 16+.

So a Wolfen or Troll would have the extra d6, most giants (Titan, Cyclops, Nimro, etc.) would have an extra 2d6, and Jotan would have an extra 3d6. I don't know if average heights have changed in 2E, but that is how they end up from the 1E description. Total house rule on my part, but I think characters should definitely fear being hit by weapons (at least with the Jotan) that may actually weight as much as the character (or more). The strength and damage adjustments of the various giants are just icing on the cake of intimidation and danger.

[Hotrod]

My own house rules for giants give them the extra die of bonus damage... and doubles the total. That's just one way in which giants in my house rules are terrifying in combat.

[Library Ogre]

My own house rules for giants give them the extra die of bonus damage... and doubles the total. That's just one way in which giants in my house rules are terrifying in combat.

My version created different scales... so, ogres and wolfen got a bonus die, trolls and giants got two or three.

[Hotrod]

True giants should be utterly horrifying to face in melee combat. That's why I have them hit earlier (giant reach), hit harder, and hit with attacks that can't be parried (only dodged).

[kiralon]

mine was extra 1d6 for each 6ft above 12ft, so 18ft is +2d6, 24 is 3d6 etc
And a large shield would let you parry 1h weapons 2 sizes up or 2h weapons 1 size up
small shield would let you parry 1h 1 size up
2h sword could parry 1h 1size up

[Kraynic]

And a large shield would let you parry 1h weapons 2 sizes up or 2h weapons 1 size up
small shield would let you parry 1h 1 size up
2h sword could parry 1h 1size up

I like that, and may very well start using those steps/stages in the next game I run.