Well, I sort of asked this when I was wondering about a failed attempt to insert a memory. But I'll broaden the scope for this. The basic question is what happens to the target of a spell or ability (I'll use power) when the target saves against the spell? There are five main questions I have. 1. Does the power have any effect at all on the target if the target saves, or does the target save instinctively and have no idea what happened? 2. If the power has some effect, it is that the target starts to succumb to the effect but shakes it off when the save is rolled? 3. If the power has some minimal effect, does the target know the exact attempt that was made against him or her? 4. Does consciousness make a difference?
I'll list a few powers that have this issue:
1. Insert Memory - Does the target who saved against this have a sense that the memory insertion was attempted? Is the memory there but they know it's fake? Is it hazy? Do they have a sense that the Mind Mage is trying to insert said memory? Is it easier for the MM to insert the memory if the target is unconscious? Would that affect the target's knowledge of a failed attempt?
2. Hypnosis - Does the target start to think the way the hypnotist thinks and then come out of it? Can you plant a hypnotic suggestion to someone who is sleeping?
3. Charm - Same as above but since the charmed person is under the influence of the caster, would the target know it was that particular caster trying to charm?
4. Curses
5. Physical effects - Spells that are cast on someone like weightlessness, increase weight, levitationm, etc.. Does the PC know someone tried to alter them?
-Vek
"Never trust a mind mage."
Mental failure
Moderators: Immortals, Supreme Beings, Old Ones
-
Veknironth
- Hero
- Posts: 1560
- Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2000 1:01 am
- Location: Bowie, MD USA
- Contact:
-
Library Ogre
- Palladium Books® Freelance Writer
- Posts: 10306
- Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2001 1:01 am
- Comment: My comments do not necessarily represent the views of Palladium Books.
- Location: Texas
- Contact:
Re: Mental failure
I tend to go with, unless otherwise noted, "You always know about a successful save", but you don't necessarily get more information.
If I'm staring in your eyes and using Hypnosis, you might guess that the successful save is from me doing something to your mind... but you won't necessarily know it was hypnosis. It might be Insert Memory. If I just cast a spell and you just saved, you know that someone tried to affect you, and you might guess it's me, but you won't know what it is, necessarily.
If I'm staring in your eyes and using Hypnosis, you might guess that the successful save is from me doing something to your mind... but you won't necessarily know it was hypnosis. It might be Insert Memory. If I just cast a spell and you just saved, you know that someone tried to affect you, and you might guess it's me, but you won't know what it is, necessarily.
-overproduced by Martin Hannett
When I see someone "fisking" these days my first inclination is to think "That person doesn't have much to say, and says it in volume." -John Scalzi
Happiness is a long block list.
If you don't want to be vilified, don't act like a villain.
The Megaverse runs on vibes.
All Palladium Articles
Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
When I see someone "fisking" these days my first inclination is to think "That person doesn't have much to say, and says it in volume." -John Scalzi
Happiness is a long block list.
If you don't want to be vilified, don't act like a villain.
The Megaverse runs on vibes.
All Palladium Articles
Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
-
drewkitty ~..~
- Monk
- Posts: 17782
- Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
- Location: Eastvale, calif
- Contact:
Re: Mental failure
1(a)if the target of the psi power is mind blind, then, no. They will have no idea that they resisted a psionic power. If the char is psychic then maybe. Depending on how your GM 's ideas/house rules about this plays out.
(b) if it is a failed attempt then no the memories are not there.
(c) not hazy...not there
(d) see answer 1(a). you asked the same question as question 1(a)
(e) depends if you GM's house rules say it is.
(f) see answer 1(a).
2 (a) it isn't the Mind bond power.
(b) depends if you GM's house rules say it is.
3 (a)if the target of the magic spell is mind blind, then, no. they will have no clue that they just resisted a spell. If the char is psychic or sensitive to magic then maybe...depending on how your GM 's ideas/house rules about this plays out.
4 They do what they do. The remove curse spell rolls vs the curse caster's spell str. Typically this is not more than 15. Do not add anything from the char that is affected by the curse to ether side of this roll.
5 (a)if the target of the magic spell is mind blind, then, no, they will have no clue that they just resisted a spell. If the char is psychic or sensitive to magic then maybe...depending on how your GM 's ideas/house rules about this plays out.
Levitation.
(b) if it is a failed attempt then no the memories are not there.
(c) not hazy...not there
(d) see answer 1(a). you asked the same question as question 1(a)
(e) depends if you GM's house rules say it is.
(f) see answer 1(a).
2 (a) it isn't the Mind bond power.
(b) depends if you GM's house rules say it is.
3 (a)if the target of the magic spell is mind blind, then, no. they will have no clue that they just resisted a spell. If the char is psychic or sensitive to magic then maybe...depending on how your GM 's ideas/house rules about this plays out.
4 They do what they do. The remove curse spell rolls vs the curse caster's spell str. Typically this is not more than 15. Do not add anything from the char that is affected by the curse to ether side of this roll.
5 (a)if the target of the magic spell is mind blind, then, no, they will have no clue that they just resisted a spell. If the char is psychic or sensitive to magic then maybe...depending on how your GM 's ideas/house rules about this plays out.
Levitation.
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
-
Veknironth
- Hero
- Posts: 1560
- Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2000 1:01 am
- Location: Bowie, MD USA
- Contact:
Re: Mental failure
Well, my big concern is can someone know that an attempt was made, save against it, but act as if it worked.
-Vek
"Just to be sneaky"
-Vek
"Just to be sneaky"
-
drewkitty ~..~
- Monk
- Posts: 17782
- Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
- Location: Eastvale, calif
- Contact:
Re: Mental failure
The psi text in the PF books don't get that specific. Which is why I referenced the GM so many times.
The other Games might have specific text that cover these things....but even then it would take the GM to import them to the PF game.
Looking at the situation you are concerned about.....As a GM, and the char was some sort of psion, if I thought it'd be fun for it to happen then it might happen
. Then again, if it would get too much in the way of the plot, I might not let it happen. But the game is suppose to be 'fun'...so it would have to be a major to much to not allow it even if it would be fun.
The other Games might have specific text that cover these things....but even then it would take the GM to import them to the PF game.
Looking at the situation you are concerned about.....As a GM, and the char was some sort of psion, if I thought it'd be fun for it to happen then it might happen
. Then again, if it would get too much in the way of the plot, I might not let it happen. But the game is suppose to be 'fun'...so it would have to be a major to much to not allow it even if it would be fun.May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
Re: Mental failure
I play that characters do feel something normally as the magic or psionics impinges on their aura, i usually describe it as a strange kind of pressure, however they do not know the source, and do not know what the effect was. However i play a detect magic combined with magic lore will allow a caster to figure out that a spell was cast on a person and failed, and if succeeded well enough even tell what the spell was and the direction it came from, and if the caster is still there point out the caster.
However I do have a magic lore skill that if someone who has the skill watches the caster they can figure out what the spell was.
If the charm worked and wore off yes I would certainly allow mages to figure out they were charmed (detect enchantment roll), and allow others to say yay or nay but not have a skill roll to back it up, otherwise a failed charm wouldn't give any indication, however, a wizard casting detect magic and using magic lore could ascertain that a spell was attempted up to knowing it was a charm spell with a very good roll.
However I do have a magic lore skill that if someone who has the skill watches the caster they can figure out what the spell was.
If the charm worked and wore off yes I would certainly allow mages to figure out they were charmed (detect enchantment roll), and allow others to say yay or nay but not have a skill roll to back it up, otherwise a failed charm wouldn't give any indication, however, a wizard casting detect magic and using magic lore could ascertain that a spell was attempted up to knowing it was a charm spell with a very good roll.