Forgotten People

[gaby]

Forgotten People will have al PF,sl Races from Rifter,I hope it will also have OCCs too,Like the Archers,s Occ from Rifter 45.

What do you wants in it?

[Zer0 Kay]

Gerseidi

[Stone Gargoyle]

Various races of elves that vary from what we've seen in the books so far. New types of playable races in general.

[Father Goose]

As I understand it, Forgotten People will feature some new races, but will also expand the culture and history of existing races in order to make some more interesting to play, as well as enriching the world setting in general.
It is from that premise that I am writing my submission. I am working to flesh out the culture of some existing races to make them more interesting to play.

[Stone Gargoyle]

As I understand it, Forgotten People will feature some new races, but will also expand the culture and history of existing races in order to make some more interesting to play, as well as enriching the world setting in general.
It is from that premise that I am writing my submission. I am working to flesh out the culture of some existing races to make them more interesting to play.

Well as written Palladium's elves are not that fun to play. At least with D&D you have different kinds of elves. But what I'm talking about races that may have been made different by magic's touch upon them.

[Prysus]

As I understand it, Forgotten People will feature some new races, but will also expand the culture and history of existing races in order to make some more interesting to play, as well as enriching the world setting in general.
It is from that premise that I am writing my submission. I am working to flesh out the culture of some existing races to make them more interesting to play.

Greetings and Salutations. And how did you come upon that understanding? I haven't seen much about it, but if I missed something I'd love to learn more. This is one of those projects I keep seeing Kevin mention, and every time he does I'm asking: "But what is this book about?!" I gather a lot of it is from previous Rifter material, from what he's said, but not sure what type of material.

Additionally: Submission? Are they taking submissions? Is this by invite or can I talk to someone?

Well as written Palladium's elves are not that fun to play. At least with D&D you have different kinds of elves. But what I'm talking about races that may have been made different by magic's touch upon them.

Eh, as an individual I can do without Wood Elves and River Elves and Dark Elves and ad nauseum, and then repeat with Dwarves, and Gnomes, etc.

"I just ran into Wood Human today."
"A what?"
"Wood human. Look, he's standing right over there."
"That's a forest ranger."
"No, he's a Wood Human. They're a thing, like Ice Humans who live further up north in the cold."
"You mean Inuit? I think trying to classify them as a different species of human is probably offensive."
"And let's not forget Dark Humans! They're all evil."
"Okay, now I know this is offensive."

With that said, if we include Rifts, there are also Asgardian Elves and Jungle Elves. There are also other variations such as Space Wolfen, and different types of Dwarves. I'm not always a fan of the concept, but Palladium has done such things. With that said, since you mentioned "different by magic's touch upon them," once upon a time I wrote this: The Magic of Elves.

That was one of my attempts to add some variety while leaving them Elves, and trying to tie in the Asgardian Elves and so forth. But, of course, that's not official. That's all for now. Farewell and safe journeys.

[Father Goose]

[justify]

As I understand it, Forgotten People will feature some new races, but will also expand the culture and history of existing races in order to make some more interesting to play, as well as enriching the world setting in general.
It is from that premise that I am writing my submission. I am working to flesh out the culture of some existing races to make them more interesting to play.

Greetings and Salutations. And how did you come upon that understanding? I haven't seen much about it, but if I missed something I'd love to learn more. This is one of those projects I keep seeing Kevin mention, and every time he does I'm asking: "But what is this book about?!" I gather a lot of it is from previous Rifter material, from what he's said, but not sure what type of material.

Additionally: Submission? Are they taking submissions? Is this by invite or can I talk to someone?

This came from a conversation I had with Kevin a while back. I don't really know any more about the book than what I said. As for a submission, I mentioned that I had some ideas and he said to send them in. It wasn't an open 'all call', nor was it 'by invitation only.' Rather it was a right place, right time, no promises, kind of situation. I'm sorry about the confusion and hope this clears things up.

[Prysus]

This came from a conversation I had with Kevin a while back. I don't really know any more about the book than what I said. As for a submission, I mentioned that I had some ideas and he said to send them in. It wasn't an open 'all call', nor was it 'by invitation only.' Rather it was a right place, right time, no promises, kind of situation. I'm sorry about the confusion and hope this clears things up.

Greetings and Salutations. Thanks for the reply. Okay, about what I expected. I'm honestly just glad to have some new insights into the book. As for confusion, that was mostly just from lack of information by Palladium when they mention the book.

I was mostly just wondering about submissions because: http://www.prysus.com/pf_cultures.htm

I think all together it was 80+ page Word document (at about 10 font, Times New Roman). At one point it was attached to the Rifter 0.1 project. Palladium expressed some interest in possibly publishing it as a separate product, but lots of things were going on for Palladium and the Rifter 0.1 project was eventually dropped. I thought about bringing it up again (as they had talked about doing it separately anyways), but Palladium tends to be busy enough so I just kind of left it alone. This just made me think about it again is all.

Anyways, appreciate the time. Farewell and safe journeys.

[Stone Gargoyle]

Well as written Palladium's elves are not that fun to play. At least with D&D you have different kinds of elves. But what I'm talking about races that may have been made different by magic's touch upon them.

Eh, as an individual I can do without Wood Elves and River Elves and Dark Elves and ad nauseum, and then repeat with Dwarves, and Gnomes, etc.

"I just ran into Wood Human today."
"A what?"
"Wood human. Look, he's standing right over there."
"That's a forest ranger."
"No, he's a Wood Human. They're a thing, like Ice Humans who live further up north in the cold."
"You mean Inuit? I think trying to classify them as a different species of human is probably offensive."
"And let's not forget Dark Humans! They're all evil."
"Okay, now I know this is offensive."

I'm not talking about just skin color and culture, I'm talking about actual differences in the way they came up out of their fae origins. Elves speak the Dragon tongue, which is the language of magic, yet they are not portrayed as magical. They seem to be portrayed merely as pointy-eared humans.

With that said, if we include Rifts, there are also Asgardian Elves and Jungle Elves. There are also other variations such as Space Wolfen, and different types of Dwarves. I'm not always a fan of the concept, but Palladium has done such things. With that said, since you mentioned "different by magic's touch upon them," once upon a time I wrote this: The Magic of Elves.

That was one of my attempts to add some variety while leaving them Elves, and trying to tie in the Asgardian Elves and so forth. But, of course, that's not official. That's all for now. Farewell and safe journeys.

I shall have to take a look at what you have there.

[Reagren Wright]

Hey folks, Just though I say I know nothing about what's going on in Forgotten People. Not my project but looking foreward to it. Someone
did mention Tombs of Gersidi that one I can smile about . As for Elves all I can say is I hope some revisions in a future sourcebook appear
that makes Elves a bit more exciting and cool to play

[Stone Gargoyle]

Hey folks, Just though I say I know nothing about what's going on in Forgotten People. Not my project but looking foreward to it. Someone
did mention Tombs of Gersidi that one I can smile about . As for Elves all I can say is I hope some revisions in a future sourcebook appear
that makes Elves a bit more exciting and cool to play

It would be cool if elves had their own sourcebook and more of their history was gone into in greater detail.

[Father Goose]

What already existing canon races found in PFRPG (Corebook, World Books, Monsters & Animals, etc.), aside from the already mentioned elves, would you like to see expanded and expounded on?
Consider all the various races that are listed with OCC options for player character purposes (like gnomes, or dragon wolves), and ask yourself, "what races would be cool to play if only I knew more about them?"
What races do you already like to play, but wish they had a more developed canon definition for their culture?
What burning questions (or idle curiosities) do you have about the histories, cultures, or purposes of particular races?

[Stone Gargoyle]

What already existing canon races found in PFRPG (Corebook, World Books, Monsters & Animals, etc.), aside from the already mentioned elves, would you like to see expanded and expounded on?
Consider all the various races that are listed with OCC options for player character purposes (like gnomes, or dragon wolves), and ask yourself, "what races would be cool to play if only I knew more about them?"
What races do you already like to play, but wish they had a more developed canon definition for their culture?
What burning questions (or idle curiosities) do you have about the histories, cultures, or purposes of particular races?

I've always thought they should do more with Centaurs. As it is, they have them basically living the same as horses and not given them a culture to speak of.

[Library Ogre]

I've always thought they should do more with Centaurs. As it is, they have them basically living the same as horses and not given them a culture to speak of.

All we really get is they love freedom so much that they die in captivity... but they also have an alliance with the Wolfen.

[Stone Gargoyle]

I've always thought they should do more with Centaurs. As it is, they have them basically living the same as horses and not given them a culture to speak of.

All we really get is they love freedom so much that they die in captivity... but they also have an alliance with the Wolfen.

They're always depicted almost naked. Do they ever wear clothes? If not, why not? Is so, what kinds of fashions do they wear? Would they wear leather or are they opposed to it as it comes from four legged animals? Would they even feel the need to wear armor? Those kinds of questions are generally not answered. Do they wear horseshoes, and if so, do they have Centaur blacksmiths?

[Soldier of Od]

Take a look at the Northern Hinterlands book, pages 97-99. There's a lot more about centaurs, including their secret city, Wildwind. They do wear leather and horseshoes (at least, they do here). It doesn't mention fashion but they definitely wear armour. Nomadic centaurs will often make trade in exchange for use of somebody else's smithy, so there are centaur blacksmiths.

[Stone Gargoyle]

Take a look at the Northern Hinterlands book, pages 97-99. There's a lot more about centaurs, including their secret city, Wildwind. They do wear leather and horseshoes (at least, they do here). It doesn't mention fashion but they definitely wear armour. Nomadic centaurs will often make trade in exchange for use of somebody else's smithy, so there are centaur blacksmiths.

I don't have the Northern Hinterlands book. I should probably get it then, huh?

[Soldier of Od]

Take a look at the Northern Hinterlands book, pages 97-99. There's a lot more about centaurs, including their secret city, Wildwind. They do wear leather and horseshoes (at least, they do here). It doesn't mention fashion but they definitely wear armour. Nomadic centaurs will often make trade in exchange for use of somebody else's smithy, so there are centaur blacksmiths.

I don't have the Northern Hinterlands book. I should probably get it then, huh?

Definitely!

[Stone Gargoyle]

Take a look at the Northern Hinterlands book, pages 97-99. There's a lot more about centaurs, including their secret city, Wildwind. They do wear leather and horseshoes (at least, they do here). It doesn't mention fashion but they definitely wear armour. Nomadic centaurs will often make trade in exchange for use of somebody else's smithy, so there are centaur blacksmiths.

I don't have the Northern Hinterlands book. I should probably get it then, huh?

Definitely!

Okay, ordered it. Thanks for the heads up!

[Hotrod]

I want to see descendants of the True Atlanteans who built the pyramids on the islands at the edge of the world, the Gruzzia islands, and the Floenries.

I'd really like them not to be standard True Atlanteans.

[Library Ogre]

I want to see descendants of the True Atlanteans who built the pyramids on the islands at the edge of the world, the Gruzzia islands, and the Floenries.

I'd really like them not to be standard True Atlanteans.

Take your pick: Grimbor or Ogres.

[Hotrod]

I want to see descendants of the True Atlanteans who built the pyramids on the islands at the edge of the world, the Gruzzia islands, and the Floenries.

I'd really like them not to be standard True Atlanteans.

Take your pick: Grimbor or Ogres.

Ok, that's actually awesome.

[kiralon]

Explains a lot about ogres.

[Okey-Dokey]

I want to see descendants of the True Atlanteans who built the pyramids on the islands at the edge of the world, the Gruzzia islands, and the Floenries.

I'd really like them not to be standard True Atlanteans.

Take your pick: Grimbor or Ogres.

Grimbor make perfect sense, especially if you're familiar with the hyborian age of Robert E. Howard

[Library Ogre]

...I am honestly not sure if the thing I wrote about troglodytes ever got published.

[SolCannibal]

Ogres and their apparent "family relation" to humans.

More on the Jotan, Kobolds and other ancient "master craftsman" races that might once have been associates if not near rivals to dwarves and elves.

Goblins, their connection to fae and whatever happened to lead into their change into something less magical.

Djinns being originally demon & deevyl hybrids has been retconned out of continuity or is it still canon though obscure and mostly forgotten lore?

[SolCannibal]

As an aside, must say the Titans, being essentially humans made bigger, prettier more magical, are kind of like Palladium's version of the True Atlanteans, at least imho, and least favorite of the giant races.

Speaking of giants.... it just crossed my mind that both Trolls and D-Ghouls are described as pasty grey or white, cadaverous-looking but deceptively strong gigantic beings.
Trolls are overall larger, but there is some common height range, at least according to the Conversion Book. That opens possibilties, i guess.

[Borast]

As I understand it, Forgotten People will feature some new races, but will also expand the culture and history of existing races in order to make some more interesting to play, as well as enriching the world setting in general.
It is from that premise that I am writing my submission. I am working to flesh out the culture of some existing races to make them more interesting to play.

Well as written Palladium's elves are not that fun to play. At least with D&D you have different kinds of elves. But what I'm talking about races that may have been made different by magic's touch upon them.

True...you have Elf, Dark-Elf, and Shadow Elf.

[kiralon]

Its not hard to make your own variants
I have elves with white skin and white hair with anime sized eyes, i have 7-8ft tall golden skinned elves, i have green tinged brown and black haired elves as well as noldor and sindarin elves.

Frm memory d&d had wood elves moon elves snow and sun elves, avariel grugach and drow, and most people played high elves im sure, and i think there was a water type elf that got +1 to hit with crossbows and tridents instead of bows and longswords

[Library Ogre]

I don't particularly care about having a variety of elven subraces... that can always get a little bit weird... but elven culture feels incredibly flat to me in Palladium.

[drewkitty ~..~]

As I understand it, Forgotten People will feature some new races, but will also expand the culture and history of existing races in order to make some more interesting to play, as well as enriching the world setting in general.
It is from that premise that I am writing my submission. I am working to flesh out the culture of some existing races to make them more interesting to play.

Well as written Palladium's elves are not that fun to play. At least with D&D you have different kinds of elves. But what I'm talking about races that may have been made different by magic's touch upon them.

True...you have Elf, Dark-Elf, and Shadow Elf.

I only know of elves, high elves and space elves in the PB game books. Where are these dark and shadow elves in a PB game book?

[SolCannibal]

As I understand it, Forgotten People will feature some new races, but will also expand the culture and history of existing races in order to make some more interesting to play, as well as enriching the world setting in general.
It is from that premise that I am writing my submission. I am working to flesh out the culture of some existing races to make them more interesting to play.

Well as written Palladium's elves are not that fun to play. At least with D&D you have different kinds of elves. But what I'm talking about races that may have been made different by magic's touch upon them.

True...you have Elf, Dark-Elf, and Shadow Elf.

I only know of elves, high elves and space elves in the PB game books. Where are these dark and shadow elves in a PB game book?

Aren't. I'm reasonably sure Borast's "Elf, Dark-Elf, and Shadow Elf" post was a quip on the "At least with D&D you have different kinds of elves. But what I'm talking about races that may have been made different by magic's touch upon them" comment from Stone Gargoyle.

I don't particularly care about having a variety of elven subraces... that can always get a little bit weird... but elven culture feels incredibly flat to me in Palladium.

Yeah, i'm more into localized cultures and fun stuff resulting from their particular stories and customs. But then i usually reskin/tinker such "fantasy subraces" as exactly that anyway.

That said, i think part of the issue with Palladium's elves is that what differences there are seem to be built-in and not really much discussed on.

First off, they are not the "agile/finesse race" balanced out to the humans "power" like in D&D and much post-Tolkenian fantasy. They are as physical but even more athletic than human. Theirs is not the delicate beauty of falcons or peacocks, but the brutal grace of jaguars & panthers, a fearful symmetry pleasant to watch not deal with.

They are long-lived and frequently learned, but in no way or form anything close to good with people or wise in dealing with them - while many associate this with arrogance, pride & prejudice, the truth is that they are just as blunt, rude and difficult to communicate with toward each other. Laconic and hermetic at best, antisocial if not sociopathic at worst. Maybe one of the reasons they have immersed themselves so much in the nations and cultures of the much more numerous, widespread and sociable humans.

Overall, i'd say they have more in common with Conan of Cimmeria or maybe more appropriately Kull of Valusia (something sort of hinted by the image in page 290 of PF) or immortals like MacLeod, Kurgan, Methos and others from the Highlander series or the spartans from 300, than the D&D and Peter Jackson movies' fare.

(And now i can't get the image of Santoro's Xerxes as the decadent Changeling or Titan ruler of a mighty empire lost in the mists of time, damn)

Just my two cents of - admitedly barely informed beyond their introductory description in PF or CB1 - thought.

[Borast]

As I understand it, Forgotten People will feature some new races, but will also expand the culture and history of existing races in order to make some more interesting to play, as well as enriching the world setting in general.
It is from that premise that I am writing my submission. I am working to flesh out the culture of some existing races to make them more interesting to play.

Well as written Palladium's elves are not that fun to play. At least with D&D you have different kinds of elves. But what I'm talking about races that may have been made different by magic's touch upon them.

True...you have Elf, Dark-Elf, and Shadow Elf.

I only know of elves, high elves and space elves in the PB game books. Where are these dark and shadow elves in a PB game book?

Heh... the comment about D&D having lots of kinds of elf.
The three are the elves of D&D. AD&D has a dozen or so main and off-shoots. D&D didn't.
That was what I was referring to.

[Soldier of Od]

I submitted a manuscript to Palladium just as the Rifter was ending that was a write-up of the (to quote from the existing books) "half-dozen elven cities that remain in the northeast corner of the Old Kingdom near the Eastern Territory" that are "all that's left of the Elven Empire" after "40% of the surviving Elven population migrated to the north-eastern quarter of their kingdom". As well as a 'world book' type write up of the cities themselves, I inserted a few excerpts from a fictional Palladium World anthropologist's observations about elven society.
I don't suppose it will ever see print now there's no Rifter, but fingers crossed!

[SolCannibal]

I submitted a manuscript to Palladium just as the Rifter was ending that was a write-up of the (to quote from the existing books) "half-dozen elven cities that remain in the northeast corner of the Old Kingdom near the Eastern Territory" that are "all that's left of the Elven Empire" after "40% of the surviving Elven population migrated to the north-eastern quarter of their kingdom". As well as a 'world book' type write up of the cities themselves, I inserted a few excerpts from a fictional Palladium World anthropologist's observations about elven society.
I don't suppose it will ever see print now there's no Rifter, but fingers crossed!

Rifter has been cancelled? Ow, i wasn't aware of that.

[SolCannibal]

I've always thought they should do more with Centaurs. As it is, they have them basically living the same as horses and not given them a culture to speak of.

All we really get is they love freedom so much that they die in captivity... but they also have an alliance with the Wolfen.

They're always depicted almost naked. Do they ever wear clothes? If not, why not? Is so, what kinds of fashions do they wear? Would they wear leather or are they opposed to it as it comes from four legged animals? Would they even feel the need to wear armor? Those kinds of questions are generally not answered. Do they wear horseshoes, and if so, do they have Centaur blacksmiths?

Kind of sorry that it took me so long to come back to this, but here we go.

Fashion and what do centaurs wear or not.... that's a pretty good question indeed, as the use of clothes has a complex and large variety of functions & reasons, protection from the elements being an important one but far from the unique or main reason and some of those motives relate also to the use of adornments like jewelry, makeup, tattoos or simple accesories/tools like bags, bandoliers, glasses and a number of other things, that might be of interest to differing groups of centaurs depending on their physical characteristics, enviroment, cultural mindset, technology level and so on.

On horseshoes and their use, the wiki can bring to mind some pretty good fodder to the subject, factors and reasons that can map interestingly on issues of migration, cultural & geographical changes and how they may influence each other, the subject of fashion and related social mores & specialization, among other possible venues of exploration/worldbuilding.

For those who might have an interest on smithing in nomadic societies, i found this and this, for a sample of ideas and imagery i guess.

According to CB1 (my PF 2nd ed has no info on them, unfortunately), "On the Palladium World the centaur is a fearsome plains warrior whose people gather in tribes of 40 to 60 members. They are a nomadic people who dislike staying in any one place longer than a season. Although they are good craftsmen, they rarely have access to a proper hearth or tools. The Palladium centaur is a dying breed, succumbing to the superior numbers and weapons of both man and wolfen."

So, i'd say that nomadic horse riding cultures might make a decent source to take some ideas from, with some degree of adaptation obviously. All of that said, the centaurs never seen to have developed figures like Atilla, Gengis Khan or the persian emperors (persian military also relied in heavy cavalry and horse archery to a respectable degree, that would go on to influence a number of central asian successor cultures & states for more than a millenium after the end of their empire). Or if they did, such empires were swallowed and lost to the mists and sands of time.

All of that said, the "fearsome plains warrior" bit does give room for the implication of some degree of either raiding, tribute-charging or "protection racketing" on the part of individual tribes. As an aside, in a bit of a cosmic irony, it could be the reason there has never been such an empire (as far as we know) is the absence of any major cultures or trading routes like Earth's ancient Silk Road, full of tempting rich soft targets in the plains regions of the Palladium world favored by centaurs.

About leather and four-legged animals, are humans, elves or dwarves opposed to hunting apes, monkeys and primates for a variety of reasons & uses?
Kind of same issue here on how much centaurs "identify themselves" with equines, other ungulates - or any humanoids, for that matter.

As an aside, humans, ogres, elves, dwarves, goblins, orcs & trolls are probably more physically similar to each other than a bunch of different animals we are prone to put together and confound like deer, reindeer, elk, antilope and others. What brings questions on the matter of other hypothetic four-legged humanoid species, variations and their interactions - at least in fantasy lands homebrewed with PF but that are not the world of Palladium (as we know it - what of distant, unknown continents?) per se.

Ah, one more thing - considering their marked preference for a wandering lifestyle and mutual fondness for faerie folk, it has crossed my mind that centaurs making greater use of bronze in place of iron for their metalwork would make a lot of sense.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Heh... the comment about D&D having lots of kinds of elf.
The three are the elves of D&D. AD&D has a dozen or so main and off-shoots. D&D didn't.
That was what I was referring to.

I have my own Elf variant, They look oriental and are short. 4'-6" to 5'-6" 'ish. They don't get any bonus with the bow because they are mainly a seafaring folk because where they live is mainly archipelagos. It is because the sea is high or the land low....not known.

[Stone Gargoyle]

Heh... the comment about D&D having lots of kinds of elf.
The three are the elves of D&D. AD&D has a dozen or so main and off-shoots. D&D didn't.
That was what I was referring to.

I was referring to all versions of D&D, AD&D included. Palladium's elves are boring in comparison.

[Stone Gargoyle]

[Rifter has been cancelled? Ow, i wasn't aware of that.

Kevin has made t known that Rifter will not continue much longer and that future contributions will be collected and published as part of the game books.

[SolCannibal]

[Rifter has been cancelled? Ow, i wasn't aware of that.

Kevin has made t known that Rifter will not continue much longer and that future contributions will be collected and published as part of the game books.

Well, so contributions might still be possible, but published directly into books of the respective game lines?
Slower going, but sort of promising, i guess. Time will tell.

[Stone Gargoyle]

[Rifter has been cancelled? Ow, i wasn't aware of that.

Kevin has made t known that Rifter will not continue much longer and that future contributions will be collected and published as part of the game books.

Well, so contributions might still be possible, but published directly into books of the respective game lines?
Slower going, but sort of promising, i guess. Time will tell.

From what I understand, he is accepting contributions but the pay is low or nonexistent, which is why I've never bothered to submit anything.

[SolCannibal]

[Rifter has been cancelled? Ow, i wasn't aware of that.

Kevin has made t known that Rifter will not continue much longer and that future contributions will be collected and published as part of the game books.

Well, so contributions might still be possible, but published directly into books of the respective game lines?
Slower going, but sort of promising, i guess. Time will tell.

From what I understand, he is accepting contributions but the pay is low or nonexistent, which is why I've never bothered to submit anything.

Useful to know either way.