Seljuk Witches?

[Warshield73]

So I have been toying around with a Seljuk villain for a convention game and I wanted him to be unique but couldn't come up with anything. Then I saw this thread on Witches and I got thinking could a Seljuk become a witch?

They can't become wizards and the like but could they become a witch or maybe get mystically bestowed abilities from Heroes Unlimited? If yes could they become a Warlock or something like that were the powers come from outside.

[Curbludgeon]

I'd say the line "no magical O.C.C. can be taken by this race" in the O.C.C.s entry is pretty conclusive. The species' description talks about there previously having been shamans, which were among those made unavailable, for whatever that says about granted casters in general. That said, there are still some edge cases. A Seljuk Cosmo-Knight can use P.P.E., for example, and a Psionic Seljuk should be able to activate a technowizard item. Whether or not a non-psionic Seljuk Cosmo-Knight can activate a TW item could be up in the air.

[drewkitty ~..~]

As an NPC I see no mechanics problem with it, cause they get their PPE from their pact. Except for how would the SN entity contact the Seljuk to make the pact. With a NPC that is a 'handwavium' situation the GM can do fiat.

[Warshield73]

I'd say the line "no magical O.C.C. can be taken by this race" in the O.C.C.s entry is pretty conclusive. The species' description talks about there previously having been shamans, which were among those made unavailable, for whatever that says about granted casters in general. That said, there are still some edge cases. A Seljuk Cosmo-Knight can use P.P.E., for example, and a Psionic Seljuk should be able to activate a technowizard item. Whether or not a non-psionic Seljuk Cosmo-Knight can activate a TW item could be up in the air.

My basic problem is that there are several races that do not study magic but can become priests or witches and the like so I was thinking along those terms. Also it does seem that almost an mortal race can become one so I was thinking along those lines.

As an NPC I see no mechanics problem with it, cause they get their PPE from their pact. Except for how would the SN entity contact the Seljuk to make the pact. With a NPC that is a 'handwavium' situation the GM can do fiat.

Witches in general are NPCs so yes definitely. I was actually thinking about a seljuk so obsessed with his peoples magical past and how he was cut off from magic by his ancestors that he sought the being out.

Of course with covid and no conventions this year, both local conventions I normally attend have been canceled as has POH, this will certainly just drop into my ever growing pile of unused plot ideas and NPCs.

[drewkitty ~..~]

thought/idea: Maybe the npc was a eugenics (see PU2) chimera with other race's genes that can use magic.

[Curbludgeon]

I'd argue there's a difference between a species that due to various cultural factors doesn't study magic and one for whom the potential was explicitly burned out. In addition to the line under the O.C.C. entry, the Magic Powers entry states: None. Can never use or learn magic - no P.P.E.. Of course, a few lines earlier it does list them as have 1d4 P.P.E., but that's editing for you. Obviously it's more important to Rule of Cool this sort of thing than handwring over rules, and playing against type is great, but even if I had a Seljuk character ran through the Book of Heroes treatment I'd lean towards rerolling any magical results. Plus with reptilian humanoids having maybe the second most diverse variety of treatments across Palladium you can't help but trip over eight shades of lizard wizard, so a bit of role protection isn't all bad.

As a tangent, should a Witch's granted abilities suffer the same penalities as a learned or intuitive practitioner of magic when bionics are forced upon them? In what way if any is the written blanket ban on such different than in the above?

[Fenris2020]

Seljuk can become Cosmo-Knights.
Cosmo-Knights can Fall.
Fallen Knights can become pseudo-Ley Line Walkers, among other things.

[RockJock]

I kinda fall into the NPC can do it, but I probably wouldn't allow a player to do it. The fallen CK is the perfect example. A Falle Cosmo Knight is 100% able to become a witch, and if it the power level works for your game then go for it.

[Fenris2020]

I kinda fall into the NPC can do it, but I probably wouldn't allow a player to do it. The fallen CK is the perfect example. A Falle Cosmo Knight is 100% able to become a witch, and if it the power level works for your game then go for it.

A Fallen Knight is about as powerful as a Full Conversion 'Borg.

[eliakon]

I kinda fall into the NPC can do it, but I probably wouldn't allow a player to do it. The fallen CK is the perfect example. A Falle Cosmo Knight is 100% able to become a witch, and if it the power level works for your game then go for it.

A Fallen Knight is about as powerful as a Full Conversion 'Borg.

A Knight, Fallen or Cosmo though is not the old race either.
"Their bodies and souls are seared and reshaped by cosmic forces."
and
"they are supernatural beings"
seems pretty clear cut that a CK Seljuk who falls is a Fallen Knight, not a Seljuk.

[Fenris2020]

I kinda fall into the NPC can do it, but I probably wouldn't allow a player to do it. The fallen CK is the perfect example. A Falle Cosmo Knight is 100% able to become a witch, and if it the power level works for your game then go for it.

A Fallen Knight is about as powerful as a Full Conversion 'Borg.

A Knight, Fallen or Cosmo though is not the old race either.
"Their bodies and souls are seared and reshaped by cosmic forces."
and
"they are supernatural beings"
seems pretty clear cut that a CK Seljuk who falls is a Fallen Knight, not a Seljuk.

It's an OCC.
Is a Seljuk who becomes a Space Pirate also not a Seljuk?
Is a human who becomes a 'Borg no longer a human?
Hmmmm....
Both have been reshaped in order to follow their new life-path.
They are still their race.

[(SHIFTY)]

Are Seljuk still around? I thought I read something that they were being wiped out by some plague.

[Warshield73]

Are Seljuk still around? I thought I read something that they were being wiped out by some plague.

There population is in the hundreds of billions across 3 galaxies and the plague is just starting so it will take a long time. Assuming its not cured they will be a major part of the CCW for centuries.

[MadGreenSon]

I kinda fall into the NPC can do it, but I probably wouldn't allow a player to do it. The fallen CK is the perfect example. A Falle Cosmo Knight is 100% able to become a witch, and if it the power level works for your game then go for it.

A Fallen Knight is about as powerful as a Full Conversion 'Borg.

A Knight, Fallen or Cosmo though is not the old race either.
"Their bodies and souls are seared and reshaped by cosmic forces."
and
"they are supernatural beings"
seems pretty clear cut that a CK Seljuk who falls is a Fallen Knight, not a Seljuk.

It's an OCC.
Is a Seljuk who becomes a Space Pirate also not a Seljuk?
Is a human who becomes a 'Borg no longer a human?
Hmmmm....
Both have been reshaped in order to follow their new life-path.
They are still their race.

That's my thought too. Cosmo Knight is not a race, it's not in the genes, it's not a species or anything. If your dad was a Cosmo Knight you aren't a half Cosmo Knight, you're just a <whatever race here>.

Cosmo Knights are not a Cosmo Race who get their Cosmo Powers from their Cosmo Genes. A Seljuk Cosmo Knight is a Seljuk, who is a Cosmo Knight. Much like how a Seljuk Robot Pilot is a Seljuk, who is a Robot Pilot.

Seljuks are prevented from taking a magic OCC because their race's innate magical potential was sacrificed in an epic ritual that made their planet safe to live on. They aren't immune to magic or anything, they just have no innate ability to do magic anymore because of a ritual sacrifice.

Much like Cosmo Knights, Witches aren't about innate ability. Innate ability has nothing to do with being a Witch. Making a Witch Pact is allowing an Alien Intelligence or Demon/Deevil Lord to own, or lease, your soul in return for power. It's not your power. It's their power and they can withhold it or take it back if they choose to.

So yeah. Since it's all borrowed power, I'd say a Seljuk can be a Witch.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Is there a particular reason that the NPC is a Seljuk rather than just any of the other countless number of lizard-like alien species and mutants that exist? Why try to shoehorn an O.C.C. into a race that doesn't support it when you can just select another race? Especially in a Phase World/dimension-based campaign that is absolutely chock-full of races.

[Fenris2020]

Is there a particular reason that the NPC is a Seljuk rather than just any of the other countless number of lizard-like alien species and mutants that exist? Why try to shoehorn an O.C.C. into a race that doesn't support it when you can just select another race? Especially in a Phase World/dimension-based campaign that is absolutely chock-full of races.

I'd do it because it's unexpected.
Everyone "knows" the seljuk can't use magic, then suddenly...

[Warshield73]

I'd do it because it's unexpected.
Everyone "knows" the seljuk can't use magic, then suddenly...

To me the unexpected aspect is only part of it. I really wanted to focus on the idea of people wanting what they can't have and what lengths they would go to get it. A Seljuk fascinated by magic can't pursue it. Also, if they are serving one side or the other in the Minion War, how far can that go?

[SolCannibal]

Honestly, no issue at all for me. Are we worried about what, breaking any sort of balance, in Rifts/Phaseworld? Anyway, the inability to do magic is in itself a mechanical gimmick done in support of the narrative of the Seljuk's collective sacrifice of their magic potential for the sake of reordering the Ley Line patterns of their homeworld in a way that made it safer for them, that simple, no more no less.

An individual Seljuk going against that makes for another narrative on its own and i see no problem at all in making use of that in a game. In fact as a GM i would make a point of DRIVING HOME how in doing so the character is going LITERALLY against ancient, powerful sacrifices & vows willingly made by its ancestors, shaman or not and how its attempt to unravel them might have consequences not only for it, but the Seljuk people and its homeworld as a whole, possibly connecting the Supernatural Intelligence behind the Witch pact with the "wild times", along with possibly the plague now spreading across the Seljuk species in the Three Galaxies.