PracticalTW Antimatter Generation using the Annihilate spell

[taalismn]

Okay, here’s a thought exercise…

Provided you had the means already at hand to capture and store the generated/summoned antimatter, how many castings of the spell ‘Annihilate’ would it take to power a starship? Say, as a baseline, a modest starship of 10,000 tons mass?

Given that the spell summons a ’softball-sized’ sphere, we can maybe guess at the generated quantity, but from real-world calculations of the potential power of real antimatter, we may have to consider that the spell summons a rather weak concentration of anti-particles(the perceived ’softball’ being some sort of containment effect).

Of course, it then begs to be continued that with enough lapis lazuli to build your own TW ‘Annihilation’ device such that the cost per casting would be brought down, tack on some PPE accumulators/generators, you could then either have a magic AM factory going, or possibly a self-fueling starship with an AM drive(provided the hybrid system could be proven to be more economical, long-term, to operate than a straight-out tech AM drive or TW propulsion/power system).

[Omegasgundam]

Okay, here’s a thought exercise…

Provided you had the means already at hand to capture and store the generated/summoned antimatter, how many castings of the spell ‘Annihilate’ would it take to power a starship? Say, as a baseline, a modest starship of 10,000 tons mass?

Given that the spell summons a ’softball-sized’ sphere, we can maybe guess at the generated quantity, but from real-world calculations of the potential power of real antimatter, we may have to consider that the spell summons a rather weak concentration of anti-particles(the perceived ’softball’ being some sort of containment effect).

Of course, it then begs to be continued that with enough lapis lazuli to build your own TW ‘Annihilation’ device such that the cost per casting would be brought down, tack on some PPE accumulators/generators, you could then either have a magic AM factory going, or possibly a self-fueling starship with an AM drive(provided the hybrid system could be proven to be more economical, long-term, to operate than a straight-out tech AM drive or TW propulsion/power system).

Possible, but the we generally go out of the way to not state just how much AM is on a ship at a given time, but let me see if I can get some calcs from main body explosion results. The idea is simple enough that the UWW likely has a specialized spell without most of the 'thrower safety' features, which would be cheaper in terms of PPE than the normal one. If nothing else, its a practical way for the UWW to field AM CMs in mass, and if you don't have magic sensors you don't know ahead of time from the lack of emotions.

The infinite build likely has some sort of restriction, but I'd need come come up with just HOW exactly. I want to say that it should be expensive enough in terms a material to output its not exactly the most cost effective, but its likely better than normal fusion.

[taalismn]

Well, a straight Google search immediately pops up a figure for specific energy of antimatter being 180 MJipg, to ue as a starting point.
Then one has to figure out a figure for what megadamage is in terms of real life physics energy units.

[Omegasgundam]

Well, a straight Google search immediately pops up a figure for specific energy of antimatter being 180 MJipg, to ue as a starting point.
Then one has to figure out a figure for what megadamage is in terms of real life physics energy units.

The Hunter goes boom to the tune of 2D6x1000 MD to a 1K ft radius, Warshield 4D6x1000 to 1 mile, the Protector 6D6x1000 to 1 mile, and Pack Master is the same but out to two miles.

Assuming that they have super cheap and easy Phase Fields to handle the longer term storage, that's just what's in the reactor when it blows.

EDIT: Done some math.

Assuming perfect theoretical damage, Ani can do 800 MD, and an AMCM can do 2.4K. That means that an AMCM is equal to 3 casts of Annihilate, which is expensive.

Then giving a generous assumption that the blast from the ships going up has a multiplier of 2 AMCMs per 1K ft, and the Protector's blast is increased to 3 miles because is the most power hungry by far and it keeps it behind the Doombringer, we get the following.

Hunter: 10 AMCMs, or 30 Ani casts
Warshield: 104.6 AMCM, or 313.8 Ani
Protector: 475.2 AMCM, or 1425.6 Ani
Packmaster: 316.8 AMCM, or 950.4 Ani

That a lot of Annihilate you need to cast, and it also explains why escorts are around. They're that much cheaper to operate.

[Warshield73]

Okay, here’s a thought exercise…

Provided you had the means already at hand to capture and store the generated/summoned antimatter, how many castings of the spell ‘Annihilate’ would it take to power a starship? Say, as a baseline, a modest starship of 10,000 tons mass?

Given that the spell summons a ’softball-sized’ sphere, we can maybe guess at the generated quantity, but from real-world calculations of the potential power of real antimatter, we may have to consider that the spell summons a rather weak concentration of anti-particles(the perceived ’softball’ being some sort of containment effect).

Of course, it then begs to be continued that with enough lapis lazuli to build your own TW ‘Annihilation’ device such that the cost per casting would be brought down, tack on some PPE accumulators/generators, you could then either have a magic AM factory going, or possibly a self-fueling starship with an AM drive(provided the hybrid system could be proven to be more economical, long-term, to operate than a straight-out tech AM drive or TW propulsion/power system).

Possible, but the we generally go out of the way to not state just how much AM is on a ship at a given time, but let me see if I can get some calcs from main body explosion results. The idea is simple enough that the UWW likely has a specialized spell without most of the 'thrower safety' features, which would be cheaper in terms of PPE than the normal one. If nothing else, its a practical way for the UWW to field AM CMs in mass, and if you don't have magic sensors you don't know ahead of time from the lack of emotions.

The infinite build likely has some sort of restriction, but I'd need come come up with just HOW exactly. I want to say that it should be expensive enough in terms a material to output its not exactly the most cost effective, but its likely better than normal fusion.

I largely agree with the above underlined but I think it goes further. Why create AM when you can open a Rift to an anti-matter universe and harvest it in bulk. In fact I think someone posted that idea a while ago. The simple fact is it would take several castings just for the AM to power a Black Eagle fighter much less full up warships. IMO

[taalismn]

[quote="Warshield73"/]
I largely agree with the above underlined but I think it goes further. Why create AM when you can open a Rift to an anti-matter universe and harvest it in bulk. In fact I think someone posted that idea a while ago. The simple fact is it would take several castings just for the AM to power a Black Eagle fighter much less full up warships. IMO[/quote]


Because the Annihilate spell seems much more common than the knowledge of the 'address' of an AM universe. Unless there's a stated way to search for a specific set of conditions when opening a rift with certainty, or that information has been supplied by another source, Annihilate, which has been stated as bringing AM from another universe, albeit akin to drawing it through a keyhole, is the easier to acquire route. Of course, a metamage or summoner/shifter might be able to , after seeing the Annihilate spell in operation, in effect hack the interdimensional code of the spell, and use that information to open a larger Rift to the same source, but they's still need to see the spell.
Annihilate also might be useful for refueling a ship in an emergency, due to the previous supply being somehow depleted, neutralized, or dumped, so it's still useful to know if it would work, and how much would be needed.

[Warshield73]

I largely agree with the above underlined but I think it goes further. Why create AM when you can open a Rift to an anti-matter universe and harvest it in bulk. In fact I think someone posted that idea a while ago. The simple fact is it would take several castings just for the AM to power a Black Eagle fighter much less full up warships. IMO

Because the Annihilate spell seems much more common than the knowledge of the 'address' of an AM universe. Unless there's a stated way to search for a specific set of conditions when opening a rift with certainty, or that information has been supplied by another source, Annihilate, which has been stated as bringing AM from another universe, albeit akin to drawing it through a keyhole, is the easier to acquire route.

For an individual PC this is absolutely true, but for a millennia old magic society like the UWW I bet they have several and given the math, no matter how you analyze it you need many casting of this spell to power even a small ship.

Of course, a metamage or summoner/shifter might be able to , after seeing the Annihilate spell in operation, in effect hack the interdimensional code of the spell, and use that information to open a larger Rift to the same source, but they's still need to see the spell.

To me I think the lore works better if you reverse this. Shifters looking for AM find a dimension and after harvesting parts of it for reactors they develop a spell that can leach small amounts for a combat spell.

Annihilate also might be useful for refueling a ship in an emergency, due to the previous supply being somehow depleted, neutralized, or dumped, so it's still useful to know if it would work, and how much would be needed.

This I think is the only real time you would see this spell being used and I myself would allow both a TW and even a regular engineer to jury-rig a magnetic collection field to try to collect the sample. Roll under your skill (plus penalties of course) and you get some AM to power your reactor, fail and boom.

[taalismn]

I'm thinking that a real nasty WMD, suicide move, or final deadman ####you move would be to open up a Rift to an AM-verse in the middle of a city, or critical area of a planet. Big enough Rift, with enough material coming through....owwww.....extinction event.

This might have happened accidentally an unknown number of times across the megaverse, or maybe the coordinates were lost because Shifters walked on through and went POOF before somebody figured out how to peek through a Rift and sniff it before actually making physical contact with it.

[ShadowLogan]

Annihilate Spell:
Does 2d4x100 MD to point of contact + 4d6x10MD to 3m radius
That is maximum of 800+240*# of objects in radius.

Power Leech RCC (WB12 pg126-7, yes I know RCB1r on pg49 for Energy Absorption) lists some energy storage options and their equivalent MDC value for the creature to absorb (and fun fact 1PPE = 1MDC in terms of energy they absorb):
-0.25MD = Flashlight/Radio Battery
-2 MD = Car Battery
-~200MD = Eclip (+100 for Long)
-2,000MD nuclear power PA/Bot/Vehicle or medium nuclear bomb
-~200MD per minute from a power plant for a city (size?)

Assuming a TW device can slowly siphon off the AM from an Annihilate Spell, and a ships power requirement does not exceed that of a nuclear powered city (or 200MDC per minute, with a reactor life of years of unknown length), and if we factor in the blast radius damage of 240MDC per object in a 3m radius:
-w/o the Radius it would power the ship for 4 minutes per casting needing 131,490 castings per year
-Assuming 12 humans w/1meter diameter zone of use: 18minutes per casting, or 28,585 casting per year
-assuming 1,948 Faeries w/0.12m diameter zone of use: 2,342minutes (~39hrs) per casting or 225 casting per year

Now the only issues that jump out are the size of the City Plant being drained in the Power Leech example, nor are we given a power output/requirement for a ship. Adding the objects in a radius can be problematic as evidenced by going with more smaller objects, plus this assumes a 2D plane and I think the radius would be 3D sphere. By Diameter Zone I mean a circular area within the larger circle, however technically you can get more people if we just consider the area (I used a webpage to calculate this for pipes inside pipes, which used uniform shape to create gaps, if we allow the use of those gaps by allowing different shaped zones...

If we pack the human/faeries zones in tightly so no gaps exist that jumps to 36 humans (or 11,143casting per year each providing 47minutes of power) or 2500 Faeries (or 175casting per year each providing 3,004min/50hr of power). Technically this can go even higher if we treat them as rectangular areas instead of the assumed average circular area.