Martial Arts in other systems?

[PalladiumBrony]

OK, first off let me say I love all the extra Martial Arts presented in Mystic China and N&SS - so much delicious flavour! But it does raise a question. Across all the other Rifts games (Palladium Fantasy, Rifts, After the Bomb, Dead Reign etc.) you have so few other choices. It's like everyone learns HTH: Basic, or MAYBE Commando or the generic "Martial Arts" which is like MMA fighting. So, here's what I came up with: If your character can take Hand to Hand: Martial Arts by any means (even if it costs you multiple skill slots), you can substitute in any of these specialised martial arts (Moo gi gong, Savate, Pro boxing/pugilism, kyokushinkai Karate, or any of the twenty different kinds of Kung Fu available) on a one-to-one basis (However many skill slots it takes to learn Martial Arts, that's how many slots it takes to learn a specialsed Martial Art). The list of hand-to-hand combat skills I have access to across all the books I have is as follows (if a skill appears in more than one book, I've just cited the book I prefer to use )

Hand to Hand: Jade Fan (Chi Hsuan Men) World book 25: China 02
Hand to Hand: Kendo World Book 08: Japan
Hand to Hand: Teng-jutsu (see Tengu R.C.C.) World Book 08: Japan
Hand to Hand: Hsien Hsia (Immortality) Mystic China
Hand to Hand: An Yin Kung Fu (Meditative/Mudra) Mystic China
Hand to Hand: Ba Gua Kung Fu (Eight Trigrams) Mystic China
Hand to Hand: Bak Mei Kung Fu (White Eyebrow) Mystic China
Hand to Hand: Chao Ta Kung Fu (Performance) Mystic China
Hand to Hand: Gui Long Kung Fu (Dragon Spirit) Mystic China
Hand to Hand: Hsing-I Kung Fu (Mind Shaping) Mystic China
Hand to Hand: Liang Hsiung Kung Fu (Demon Combat) Mystic China
Hand to Hand: Ran Yu Kung Fu (Chi Katas) Mystic China
Hand to Hand: Shan Tung Kung Fu (Black Tiger) Mystic China
Hand to Hand: Tong Lun Kung Fu (Praying Mantis) Mystic China
Hand to Hand: Pao Chih (Animus Development) Mystic China
Hand to Hand: Shih Ba Ban Wu Yi (Eighteen Weapons) Mystic China
Hand to Hand: Triad Assassin Training (Automatic Pistols) Mystic China
Hand to Hand: Aikido (exclusive) Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Ch'in-na the art of seizing Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Chi hsuan men — the white jade fan (exclusive) Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Jujutsu Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Hwarang-do karate (exclusive) Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Isshin-ryu karate Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Kyokushinkai karate Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Sankukai karate Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: T'ang-su karate Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Bok pai Kung Fu (Crane Style) Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Ch'a ch'uan kung fu Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Choy-li-fut kung fu Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Fong ngan kung fu — phoenix eye Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Fu-chiao pai kung fu — tiger claw Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Li-chia kung fu — short-hand Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Mien-ch'uan kung fu — cotton fist Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Monkey style kung fu Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Pao pat mei kung fu — leopard style Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Pu Kung Fu Drunken style of kung fu Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Shao-lin kung fu Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: She Shen kung fu - Snake style Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Wu shu t'sung kung fu people's republic of china (exclusive) Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Xing chiao kung fu eagle claw Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Kuo-ch'uan — dog boxing kung fu Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Lee kwan choo Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Moo gi gong Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Ninjitsu (exclusive) Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Sumo (exclusive) Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Tae kwon do Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Tai-chi ch'uan Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Taido Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Te Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Thai kick boxing (exclusive) Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Tien-hsueh touch mastery (exclusive) Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Wui wing chun (exclusive) Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Yu-sool Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Zanji shinjinken-ryu Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Hand to Hand: Bishoudo Rifter 03
Hand to Hand: Chi-Kung Martial Arts Rifter 03
Hand to Hand: Chiang Di Chuang: Spear of the Earth's Strength Rifter 03
Hand to Hand: Gen Kuei Do: The Way of the Sai Ghost Rifter 03
Hand to Hand: Lei Feng Do: The Way of the Thunder Wind Rifter 03
Hand to Hand: Luan Mo: The Beautiful Devil Rifter 03
Hand to Hand: Mo Long Kung: Attack of the Devil Dragon Rifter 03
Hand to Hand: O-Ken Wa: Great Sword Harmony Rifter 03
Hand to Hand: Yung Huo Jen: The Eternal Fires of the Sword Rifter 03
Hand to Hand: Brazilian Jiujitsu Rifter 07
Hand to Hand: Capoeira (exclusive) Rifter 07
Hand to Hand: Command Sambo (exclusive) Rifter 07
Hand to Hand: Jeet Kun Do Rifter 07
Hand to Hand: Kick Boxing Rifter 07
Hand to Hand: Krav Mahga Rifter 07
Hand to Hand: Munen Muso Rifter 07
Hand to Hand: Pancracean/Pankration Rifter 07
Hand to Hand: Petjut Kilat Silat /Arnis Rifter 07
Hand to Hand: Pro Boxing (Pugilism) Rifter 07
Hand to Hand: Savate Rifter 07

Obviously the "Exclusive" Martial Arts should remain exclusive to the Dedicated Martial Artist. Also please can someone clarify whether the Worldly Martial Artist can take Exclusive skills? I may have misread but from my reading, it doesn't explicitly say they can, but it doesn't explicitly say they CAN'T either - with some classes in N&SS it's very explicit that they may not take Exclusive martial arts forms.

[thorr-kan]

I believe the confusion of what is exclusive, what WMA can take, and what DMA can take are the results of the update from N&SS to N&SS revised.

To my knowledge, there is no official errata, nor is there likely to be.

[drewkitty ~..~]

The problem with the above list is that the ones from N&S and MC and the MAFs in the rifters are not Hand to Hand skills. They are Martial Arts Forms, that operate under different rules than h2hs. MAFs come with cultural skills and have "powers or techiques' that take years to master impeded in them.

As such.. The corrected list.
None of the MAFs are fungible with h2h Martal Arts

Martal Arts Form: Hsien Hsia (Immortality) Mystic China
Martal Arts Form: An Yin Kung Fu (Meditative/Mudra) Mystic China
Martal Arts Form: Ba Gua Kung Fu (Eight Trigrams) Mystic China
Martal Arts Form: Bak Mei Kung Fu (White Eyebrow) Mystic China
Martal Arts Form:: Chao Ta Kung Fu (Performance) Mystic China
Martal Arts Form: Gui Long Kung Fu (Dragon Spirit) Mystic China
Martal Arts Form: Hsing-I Kung Fu (Mind Shaping) Mystic China
Martal Arts Form: Liang Hsiung Kung Fu (Demon Combat) Mystic China
Martal Arts Form: Ran Yu Kung Fu (Chi Katas) Mystic China
Martal Arts Form: Shan Tung Kung Fu (Black Tiger) Mystic China
Martal Arts Form: Tong Lun Kung Fu (Praying Mantis) Mystic China
Martal Arts Form: Pao Chih (Animus Development) Mystic China
Martal Arts Form: Shih Ba Ban Wu Yi (Eighteen Weapons) Mystic China
Martal Arts Form: Triad Assassin Training (Automatic Pistols) Mystic China
Martal Arts Form: Aikido (exclusive) Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form:: Ch'in-na the art of seizing Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Chi hsuan men — the white jade fan (exclusive) Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Jujutsu Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Hwarang-do karate (exclusive) Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Isshin-ryu karate Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Kyokushinkai karate Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Sankukai karate Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: T'ang-su karate Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Bok pai Kung Fu (Crane Style) Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Ch'a ch'uan kung fu Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form:Choy-li-fut kung fu Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Fong ngan kung fu — phoenix eye Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Fu-chiao pai kung fu — tiger claw Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Li-chia kung fu — short-hand Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Mien-ch'uan kung fu — cotton fist Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Monkey style kung fu Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Pao pat mei kung fu — leopard style Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Pu Kung Fu Drunken style of kung fu Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Shao-lin kung fu Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: She Shen kung fu - Snake style Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Wu shu t'sung kung fu people's republic of china (exclusive) Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form:: Xing chiao kung fu eagle claw Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Kuo-ch'uan — dog boxing kung fu Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Lee kwan choo Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Moo gi gong Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Ninjitsu (exclusive) Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Sumo (exclusive) Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Tae kwon do Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Tai-chi ch'uan Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Taido Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form:Te Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Thai kick boxing (exclusive) Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Tien-hsueh touch mastery (exclusive) Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Wui wing chun (exclusive) Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Yu-sool Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Zanji shinjinken-ryu Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Bishoudo Rifter 03
Martal Arts Form: Chi-Kung Martial Arts Rifter 03
Martal Arts Form: Chiang Di Chuang: Spear of the Earth's Strength Rifter 03
Martal Arts Form: Gen Kuei Do: The Way of the Sai Ghost Rifter 03
Martal Arts Form: Lei Feng Do: The Way of the Thunder Wind Rifter 03
Martal Arts Form: Luan Mo: The Beautiful Devil Rifter 03
Martal Arts Form:Mo Long Kung: Attack of the Devil Dragon Rifter 03
Martal Arts Form: O-Ken Wa: Great Sword Harmony Rifter 03
Martal Arts Form: Yung Huo Jen: The Eternal Fires of the Sword Rifter 03
Martal Arts Form: Brazilian Jiujitsu Rifter 07
Martal Arts Form: Capoeira (exclusive) Rifter 07
Martal Arts Form: Command Sambo (exclusive) Rifter 07
Martal Arts Form: Jeet Kun Do Rifter 07
Martal Arts Form: Kick Boxing Rifter 07
Martal Arts Form: Krav Mahga Rifter 07
Martal Arts Form: Munen Muso Rifter 07
Martal Arts Form: Pancracean/Pankration Rifter 07
Martal Arts Form: Petjut Kilat Silat /Arnis Rifter 07
Martal Arts Form: Pro Boxing (Pugilism) Rifter 07
Martal Arts Form: Savate Rifter 07

List of canon h2hs. The OP's ideas about substation will work with most of these. Specifically Judo and Karate are the two that work best with the OP's ideas.
Yes
Hand to Hand: basic All current Core books
Hand to Hand: Expert all current core books
Hand to Hand: martial arts All current core books
Hand to Hand: Assassin All current core books
Hand to Hand: Judo rifts Japan
Hand to Hand: Aikido Rifts Japan
Hand to Hand: Jujitsu Rifts Japan
Hand to Hand: Karate Rifts Japan
Hand to Hand: Kendo Rifts Japan
Hand to Hand: Ninjustu TMNT core book page 61 (might be hard to get ahold of)
Hand to Hand: (class based combat skills) PF RPG 1st ed (there are like 7-8 different combat progressions)
Hand to Hand: Commando RGMG

These canon H2H don't work very well with he OP's Idea. For various reasons
Hand to Hand: Ninjitsu/Tai-Jutsu Rifts Japan
Hand to Hand: Samurai (Kanji Shinjinken-Ryu) Rifts Japan
Hand to Hand: Dragon RUE
Hand to Hand: Teng-jutsu (see Tengu R.C.C.) Rifts Japan
hand to Hand: Jade Fan (Chi Hsuan Men) World book 25: China 02 (it is debatable that the RC2 fighting forms are h2hs or MAFs.All of the ones with mystic powers associated with them can be exchanged with h2h MA.)

[PalladiumBrony]

The problem with the above list is that the ones from N&S and MC and the MAFs in the rifters are not Hand to Hand skills. They are Martial Arts Forms, that operate under different rules than h2hs. MAFs come with cultural skills and have "powers or techiques' that take years to master impeded in them.

As such.. The corrected list.
None of the MAFs are fungible with h2h Martal Arts

Martal Arts Form: Hsien Hsia (Immortality) Mystic China
Martal Arts Form: An Yin Kung Fu (Meditative/Mudra) Mystic China
Martal Arts Form: Ba Gua Kung Fu (Eight Trigrams) Mystic China
Martal Arts Form: Bak Mei Kung Fu (White Eyebrow) Mystic China
Martal Arts Form:: Chao Ta Kung Fu (Performance) Mystic China
Martal Arts Form: Gui Long Kung Fu (Dragon Spirit) Mystic China
Martal Arts Form: Hsing-I Kung Fu (Mind Shaping) Mystic China
Martal Arts Form: Liang Hsiung Kung Fu (Demon Combat) Mystic China
Martal Arts Form: Ran Yu Kung Fu (Chi Katas) Mystic China
Martal Arts Form: Shan Tung Kung Fu (Black Tiger) Mystic China
Martal Arts Form: Tong Lun Kung Fu (Praying Mantis) Mystic China
Martal Arts Form: Pao Chih (Animus Development) Mystic China
Martal Arts Form: Shih Ba Ban Wu Yi (Eighteen Weapons) Mystic China
Martal Arts Form: Triad Assassin Training (Automatic Pistols) Mystic China
Martal Arts Form: Aikido (exclusive) Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form:: Ch'in-na the art of seizing Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Chi hsuan men — the white jade fan (exclusive) Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Jujutsu Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Hwarang-do karate (exclusive) Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Isshin-ryu karate Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Kyokushinkai karate Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Sankukai karate Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: T'ang-su karate Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Bok pai Kung Fu (Crane Style) Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Ch'a ch'uan kung fu Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form:Choy-li-fut kung fu Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Fong ngan kung fu — phoenix eye Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Fu-chiao pai kung fu — tiger claw Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Li-chia kung fu — short-hand Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Mien-ch'uan kung fu — cotton fist Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Monkey style kung fu Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Pao pat mei kung fu — leopard style Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Pu Kung Fu Drunken style of kung fu Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Shao-lin kung fu Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: She Shen kung fu - Snake style Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Wu shu t'sung kung fu people's republic of china (exclusive) Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form:: Xing chiao kung fu eagle claw Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Kuo-ch'uan — dog boxing kung fu Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Lee kwan choo Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Moo gi gong Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Ninjitsu (exclusive) Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Sumo (exclusive) Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Tae kwon do Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Tai-chi ch'uan Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Taido Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form:Te Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Thai kick boxing (exclusive) Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Tien-hsueh touch mastery (exclusive) Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Wui wing chun (exclusive) Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Yu-sool Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Zanji shinjinken-ryu Ninjas & Superspies Revised
Martal Arts Form: Bishoudo Rifter 03
Martal Arts Form: Chi-Kung Martial Arts Rifter 03
Martal Arts Form: Chiang Di Chuang: Spear of the Earth's Strength Rifter 03
Martal Arts Form: Gen Kuei Do: The Way of the Sai Ghost Rifter 03
Martal Arts Form: Lei Feng Do: The Way of the Thunder Wind Rifter 03
Martal Arts Form: Luan Mo: The Beautiful Devil Rifter 03
Martal Arts Form:Mo Long Kung: Attack of the Devil Dragon Rifter 03
Martal Arts Form: O-Ken Wa: Great Sword Harmony Rifter 03
Martal Arts Form: Yung Huo Jen: The Eternal Fires of the Sword Rifter 03
Martal Arts Form: Brazilian Jiujitsu Rifter 07
Martal Arts Form: Capoeira (exclusive) Rifter 07
Martal Arts Form: Command Sambo (exclusive) Rifter 07
Martal Arts Form: Jeet Kun Do Rifter 07
Martal Arts Form: Kick Boxing Rifter 07
Martal Arts Form: Krav Mahga Rifter 07
Martal Arts Form: Munen Muso Rifter 07
Martal Arts Form: Pancracean/Pankration Rifter 07
Martal Arts Form: Petjut Kilat Silat /Arnis Rifter 07
Martal Arts Form: Pro Boxing (Pugilism) Rifter 07
Martal Arts Form: Savate Rifter 07

List of canon h2hs. The OP's ideas about substation will work with most of these. Specifically Judo and Karate are the two that work best with the OP's ideas.
Yes
Hand to Hand: basic All current Core books
Hand to Hand: Expert all current core books
Hand to Hand: martial arts All current core books
Hand to Hand: Assassin All current core books
Hand to Hand: Judo rifts Japan
Hand to Hand: Aikido Rifts Japan
Hand to Hand: Jujitsu Rifts Japan
Hand to Hand: Karate Rifts Japan
Hand to Hand: Kendo Rifts Japan
Hand to Hand: Ninjustu TMNT core book page 61 (might be hard to get ahold of)
Hand to Hand: (class based combat skills) PF RPG 1st ed (there are like 7-8 different combat progressions)
Hand to Hand: Commando RGMG

These canon H2H don't work very well with he OP's Idea. For various reasons
Hand to Hand: Ninjitsu/Tai-Jutsu Rifts Japan
Hand to Hand: Samurai (Kanji Shinjinken-Ryu) Rifts Japan
Hand to Hand: Dragon RUE
Hand to Hand: Teng-jutsu (see Tengu R.C.C.) Rifts Japan
hand to Hand: Jade Fan (Chi Hsuan Men) World book 25: China 02 (it is debatable that the RC2 fighting forms are h2hs or MAFs.All of the ones with mystic powers associated with them can be exchanged with h2h MA.)

Ahh, OK I see... I've found something else here, in Rifter #03 in the article on specific martial arts forms (page 25 for reference), it contains rules that could allow almost anyone from outside the N&SS game to learn martial arts forms... the article is specifically talking in the context of the ones presented, but I see no reason the same logic can't apply to any of the Martial Arts Forms from the discussion so far: For anyone who hasn't got Rifter 03, here's how it works. The character must:

* Have a reasonable opportunity to learn the martial art - which is largely a factor of the setting and the whims of the GM.
* Have, or be allowed to take, Hand to Hand: Martial Arts
* If they can upgrade their existing HtH to Martial Arts, they must sacrifice the requisite "other" skills to raise their Hand to Hand to the level of Martial Arts (ex, if their OCC says "knows Hand to Hand: basic but can upgrade to MA for the cost of 2 other skills"
* Further, they must sacrifice an additional number of "other" skills to replace their Hand to Hand: Martial Arts with a MAF. This is 4 skills for a non-exclusive form, and 6 skills for an exclusive form.[/list]

I quite like this system actually, because it makes a wider range of martial arts available to a wider range of characters across the Megaverse, but it also appropriately taxes them in terms of skill breadth - the more intensive your martial arts training, the less time you will have bothered to spend learning anything else.