Blue Flame (Warlock spell)

[kiralon]

This was used for the first time in todays sessions as normally none of the players would take it due it it having a save that stopped all the damage.

Is the spell centered on the warlock or does he cast it the range away and a circle of blue flame appear in front of him.
(if it is centered on him does it move with him)

And when it wears off it says it disappears without any trace of it having been there, so even though it is a numbing cold flame does it only affect people? Will it freeze water? Does the damage it has done to someone disappear without a trace and leave them uninjured after the spell has worn off? Do you have to keep making a save every round or does 1 work for the entirety of the spell? Is it illusionary as I cannot think of a reason why a save vs cold flame would = no damage when a fail is minimum 5d6 (1d6 per level) damage.



...stupid spell

[Kraynic]

I'm not sure if it is totally illusion, but it is a bit of an odd one due to having duration, but only dealing the damage once. Save or take the damage once, and it does no more to you is the way I interpret the spell. Personally, I don't have it deal any damage to objects or freeze water. I give it the same range as circle of flame, but that is totally my own addition due to it not saying the warlock is immune. There is no range listed in the book that I see, so you could have it centered.

[kiralon]

Imagine an air/fire 8th level warlock having that centered on him flying as an eagle over a battlefield invisible 30ft off the ground

[Veknironth]

Well, usually when I ask this kind of question someone will mention the intent of the spell as a guide. However, I can't tell what the intent is of this spell. Kray has an idea with the circle of flame - it is an area of effect spell. But, the range only says the diameter. It doesn't say how far away the spell can be cast. It could be a personal protection spell, centered around the caster, but I'm thinkig that isn't the intent. That would make the spell useful only when the caster is alone, and the game is generally best when played in a group. It would be fantastic as Kiralon suggested - a Warlock flying around freezing everything in as this blue flame races around. But it makes it very difficult to use in any useful way in a party.

So, then what is the actual range the spell cast be cast FROM the caster? I go with 90 feet. That seems to be the most common spell range.

I don't think the spell is illusory. I think the text is supposed to mean that there are no charred remains on the ground. Of course, if it's there doing 5d6, it's probably going to kill plants in its area of effect. If it were cast in an area of just stone, I think there would be no trace left.

Regarding the saving throw, I never liked the area of effect saving throws. You cast a cloud or something like this spell and somehow it just doesn't affect you? The person next do you is asleep, gasping, freezing, etc. but you aren't? I think the saving throw should be the person getting out of the area of the spell. That would remove the question of re-rolling saves each round. However, if you fail your save, do you continue to take damage every round? The spell implies no, but everything I know about extreme cold says you should. If you freeze to death, it usually happens over time. The damage you suffer remains.

-Vek
"It also is affixed to the spot where it is cast."

[kiralon]

I must say im a bit confused about the intent of this one, as generally damage spells don't normally save, espcially if they are elemental in nature, and the are of effect is humungous

[Kraynic]

I must say im a bit confused about the intent of this one, as generally damage spells don't normally save, espcially if they are elemental in nature, and the are of effect is humungous

I guess I view it as a very large impediment (area denial) that can make people think twice covering a much larger area than wall of flame. It doesn't have the duration of wall of flame, but it is still plenty long. It is visible, so I would think it would give most creatures pause. It does have a save, but also can deal a ton of damage depending on caster level. I'm not sure there is anything else even close to that large that can deal that amount of direct damage outside of certain AoE wards. Certainly not anything that is similar level, at least.

[kiralon]

If you can cast it away from yourself the spell is a killer because of the area of effect, imagine casting it on a boat, it would fill it from top to bottom.

[Soldier of Od]

I believe it is intended to be centred around the spell caster - if ever a spell description does not include a distance it can be cast away from the caster (and there isn't an obvious mistake!) I assume that means it has to be centred around them. Makes sense to me in this case, and I don't see any need to add something extra to this spell that it doesn't appear to have.

If it doesn't say it can be moved, I don't believe it can be moved. The effect remains where it was cast.

Unless a spell description says otherwise, I don't think you need to keep making additional saves vs. magic - if you save, you save. Would you have someone make additional saves vs. magic every melee they remained inside a cloud of slumber, etc.?

I guess as it "doesn't burn like normal flame", it just does damage in the same unexplained magical way as any other damaging magic effect that requires a save, such as purple mist, havoc, or similar spells. Going by the "no trace" comment, and for simplicity, I would say that things like inanimate objects that don't have a save vs. magic are not affected.

I've used this spell in the past, and have found it to be a really useful spell for fire warlocks who come up against opponents who think they have been clever by making themselves impervious to fire before the encounter! A bit of unexpected cold damage often comes as a nasty surprise!

For information, "Frostfire" in the Library of Bletherad book is an example of an actual physical "cold flame" spell.

[Kraynic]

If you can cast it away from yourself the spell is a killer because of the area of effect, imagine casting it on a boat, it would fill it from top to bottom.

Yeah. As I see it, you either need to add caster immunity so that the caster isn't having to make the save to avoid damage, or add range so that the caster isn't in the area of effect unless they choose to be for some reason.

I don't generally worry too much about naval use of spells due to ranged weapons out-ranging most spells pretty easily. And once you are in spell range, turn about is fair play if both sides have casters. This would be one of very few spells a fire warlock could contribute that would potentially lead to an intact vessel that you could take as a prize. Most everything else is just burning everything to the waterline.

[drewkitty ~..~]

This was used for the first time in todays sessions as normally none of the players would take it due it it having a save that stopped all the damage.

Is the spell centered on the warlock or does he cast it the range away and a circle of blue flame appear in front of him.
(if it is centered on him does it move with him)

And when it wears off it says it disappears without any trace of it having been there, so even though it is a numbing cold flame does it only affect people? Will it freeze water? Does the damage it has done to someone disappear without a trace and leave them uninjured after the spell has worn off? Do you have to keep making a save every round or does 1 work for the entirety of the spell? Is it illusionary as I cannot think of a reason why a save vs cold flame would = no damage when a fail is minimum 5d6 (1d6 per level) damage.
...snip

Is it illusionary?..no (there is a similar cold fire spell in the LoB page 74 which is also a cold burning flame.

Range: The how far away was omitted, so looking at the other level five fire elemental spells I would guess I'd rule (from a GM perspective) for the center to be somewhere between 60 and 90 feet away.

Who/what does it effect....Anything living is/can be effected by this spell.

Saving throw or throws?....depends on the GM evilness. From a GM POV I would most of the time just have one save....but if I'm feeling evil about it I'd might have chars roll each melee round. But then it would be more because of the NPC using it, rather than just feeling angry at the world that day. And once they failed they stay failed.

Making a Saving throw.....I might as a GM just let the char that made their save to avoid the damage but they still feel the cold.

Damage is damage. It stays till healed or heals.

As for the possible after effects, after the spell ends....
....I might have those caught in the spell effect area and failed their save vs magic will be suffering from hypothermia and maybe some times frost bite. (smaller/more frail chars chars would suffer these more than larger chars.)
...water....maybe freezing. depends on the GM, or the environmental situation.

[kiralon]

The reason i thought it was illusionary is because of the save for no damage and then sit in it for 5 minutes (at minimum level power) and absolutely destroy something that failed its save (100d6 damage), not to mention it disappears without a trace at spell end, if it made the air that cold to do that much damage there would be ice over everything.
*cough* cloud of slumber then blue flame *cough* is a nightmare mix.
And no damage to armour is a bit odd too.
But then
Being able to cast it at range it would have to be more than 75 feet or the lvl 15 warlock would be in the area effect as 10ft per level is a massive diameter, it chews up enemies rapidly, especially when the player has an elemental summoned.
And frostfire doesn't have a save so it is definitely what i would call physical damage, and just that no save makes me think the spells are very different.

That leads to
do multiple blue flames overlap and do more damage.

[Soldier of Od]

The reason i thought it was illusionary is because of the save for no damage and then sit in it for 5 minutes (at minimum level power) and absolutely destroy something that failed its save (100d6 damage), not to mention it disappears without a trace at spell end, if it made the air that cold to do that much damage there would be ice over everything.
*cough* cloud of slumber then blue flame *cough* is a nightmare mix.
And no damage to armour is a bit odd too.
But then
Being able to cast it at range it would have to be more than 75 feet or the lvl 15 warlock would be in the area effect as 10ft per level is a massive diameter, it chews up enemies rapidly, especially when the player has an elemental summoned.
And frostfire doesn't have a save so it is definitely what i would call physical damage, and just that no save makes me think the spells are very different.

I guess maybe calling it "illusionary" might be a bit misleading to some people - I just think of it as a magic effect that works using magic - I don't think it needs to be explained any further. I agree this spell and frostfire are vey different.

do multiple blue flames overlap and do more damage.

Yes, I reckon so. Save vs. each one in turn.

[Prysus]

The reason i thought it was illusionary is because of the save for no damage and then sit in it for 5 minutes (at minimum level power) and absolutely destroy something that failed its save (100d6 damage), not to mention it disappears without a trace at spell end, if it made the air that cold to do that much damage there would be ice over everything.

Greetings and Salutations. I don't have time for a long post, and my initial instinct was just to say it's magical and therefore defies physics as we know it.

However, the above comment made me think maybe it's more absorbing body heat. So if you save, you basically resist the magic trying to draw the heat from your body. No damage to the area because it's not actually cold. This would be devastating to Fire Elementals which are made of heat (as noted in the spell description), and why it would get around a fire resistance (it's not burning, it's drawing in heat).

Anyways, just a thought. Farewell and safe journeys.

[kiralon]

I do like that idea, and it would explain the other oddness of the spell.