Ancient Greek Mythology RPG- low fantasy vs. high fantasy?

[opweini]

So I've been thinking about the best way to do an Ancient Greek Myth RPG and want some feedback. I figure with these things, there's a sliding scale of realism and fantastical and I want to know which would you prefer to see?

On the one hand, you can have a very realistic, historical based setting. Sparta, Athens, Thebes, the Aecheans etc. with a touch of the fantasy. This is the greece you read about in the mythology books ripped right out of the pages and made into a setting. In this setting, the magic would be pretty limited. Think of the Troy movie with Brad Pitt, with a little more of Clash of the Titans. There are definitely monsters and you are a demigod hero in the Heroic age.

Pros: Very grounded in realism, a little gritty, and familiar. Cons: Some may find it too familiar and there is less room for artistic license. I'd be worried the project would be too much of a slave to it's source material.

The alternative is something much more fantastical. It would be a world inspired by Greek myth, but not a slave to it, taking some of the ideas presented in the source material and moving them forward. Magic might be more common, studied by philosophers who are trying to unlock the mysteries of creation. Gods are real (and may be different from Zeus and the Olympians) and interact with the people all the time. Heavy Hoplite cavalry riding into battle astride magnificent pegasi. Stuff like that. Think Exalted meets Magic the Gathering's Theros. You're a mythic demigod hero in the age of heroes but you are less unique, there are a lot of heroes running around, also the power levels of this game would probably be higher.

Pros: Unique setting, more room to shake things up and think outside of the box. Cons: Unfamiliar setting, if you're going to do ancient greek halfway, why not go all the way?

I am frozen by indecision here and need advice, what do you think?

[Prysus]

So I've been thinking about the best way to do an Ancient Greek Myth RPG and want some feedback. I figure with these things, there's a sliding scale of realism and fantastical and I want to know which would you prefer to see?
[snip]
I am frozen by indecision here and need advice, what do you think?

Greetings and Salutations. I'll offer my opinion, and you may take it for what you will, because I feel like we've looked at two very different myths.

On the one hand, you can have a very realistic, historical based setting. Sparta, Athens, Thebes, the Aecheans etc. with a touch of the fantasy. This is the greece you read about in the mythology books ripped right out of the pages and made into a setting. In this setting, the magic would be pretty limited. Think of the Troy movie with Brad Pitt, with a little more of Clash of the Titans. There are definitely monsters and you are a demigod hero in the Heroic age.

I personally view Troy with Brad Pitt as a HORRIBLE mythology movie. That movie (making no comment to it as a self-contained story, but only from a mythological standpoint) took a look at the myth, took out almost everything fantastical, and then tried to make it into a historical drama (with a some Hollywood thrown in, of course). That's not even low fantasy, that's anti-fantasy (or at least basic Hollywood action and/or war fantasy, which is to say not realistic but not what's typically classified as fantasy). The myths are wrong, gods don't really exist or interact. The myths are wrong, Achilles isn't really invulnerable and he's just a good fighter that rumors have built up around. The myths are wrong, everyone involved were just ordinary people. If a G.M. told me this was a mythology game and then gave me a Troy (movie) setting, I'd be extremely disappointed. I'm not saying this setting is necessarily bad in its own right, but don't advertise it as a Greek myth, because it is NOT.

Clash of the Titans (the older one even more so than the newer one), Hercules (Kevin Sorbo)/Xena (Lucy Lawless) from the 90s, Percy Jackson (to my understanding the books are far better than the movies), or The God of War (video games) would all fit better to mythology than the movie Troy (or even the Hercules movie with Dwayne 'the Rock' Johnson, which is another one that tries to take out the mythology of the stories).

Cons: Unfamiliar setting, if you're going to do ancient greek halfway, why not go all the way?

You wrote this con in relation to anything not 100% grounded in reality as we understand it today, but I feel this con closer applies to the first one ... because the first version removes a lot of the myth (basically, only taking the realistic aspects and then ignoring the other half). Now, if you said you wanted to run an Ancient Greek RPG, that's one thing. But you didn't say that. You specified an Ancient Greek Mythology RPG ... while then trying to strip out the mythology.

The alternative is something much more fantastical. It would be a world inspired by Greek myth, but not a slave to it, taking some of the ideas presented in the source material and moving them forward. Magic might be more common, studied by philosophers who are trying to unlock the mysteries of creation. Gods are real (and may be different from Zeus and the Olympians) and interact with the people all the time. Heavy Hoplite cavalry riding into battle astride magnificent pegasi. Stuff like that. Think Exalted meets Magic the Gathering's Theros. You're a mythic demigod hero in the age of heroes but you are less unique, there are a lot of heroes running around, also the power levels of this game would probably be higher.

The fact you're viewing as Gods being real and interacting with people as DIFFERENT than Mythology is troubling to me. Mythology has gods interacting with mortals, demigods, centaurs, the Minotaur, Medusa, nymphs, harpies, etc.

As a Game Master, I've allowed players to play a Demi-God (Rifts Conversion Book 2: Pantheons of the Megaverse). Yes, they're powerful compared to normal humans. Yes, I'm perfectly okay with that because their real threats come from other fantastical beings.

Now, I also tend to make up my own settings with my own gods. I enjoy creating new worlds for a variety of reasons. With that said, if you want to do an Ancient Greek Mythology RPG, then I'd say stick with (mostly) the gods of mythology. And it's not bound by the actual Greek myths, because you're not just retelling a myth and shackling players to the exact same events and actions. Basically you'd be taking different protagonists (the player characters) and building a new story around them. That could even involve making new creatures. To me, the important thing would be keeping the feel of the myth, while still making something new.

As an individual, I like the fantastical. With that said, I have no objections to a historical, realistic, gritty Ancient Greek RPG that treats gods, demi-gods, centaur, and other fantastical aspects as nothing other than misunderstandings with a firm, logical, scientific explanation from a modern day perspective ... as long as the game/RPG doesn't try to claim to be a Mythology RPG. Those are my thoughts on the matter. Farewell and safe journeys.

[Soldier of Od]

So I've been thinking about the best way to do an Ancient Greek Myth RPG and want some feedback. I figure with these things, there's a sliding scale of realism and fantastical and I want to know which would you prefer to see?

On the one hand, you can have a very realistic, historical based setting. Sparta, Athens, Thebes, the Aecheans etc. with a touch of the fantasy. This is the greece you read about in the mythology books ripped right out of the pages and made into a setting. In this setting, the magic would be pretty limited. Think of the Troy movie with Brad Pitt, with a little more of Clash of the Titans. There are definitely monsters and you are a demigod hero in the Heroic age.

Pros: Very grounded in realism, a little gritty, and familiar. Cons: Some may find it too familiar and there is less room for artistic license. I'd be worried the project would be too much of a slave to it's source material.

The alternative is something much more fantastical. It would be a world inspired by Greek myth, but not a slave to it, taking some of the ideas presented in the source material and moving them forward. Magic might be more common, studied by philosophers who are trying to unlock the mysteries of creation. Gods are real (and may be different from Zeus and the Olympians) and interact with the people all the time. Heavy Hoplite cavalry riding into battle astride magnificent pegasi. Stuff like that. Think Exalted meets Magic the Gathering's Theros. You're a mythic demigod hero in the age of heroes but you are less unique, there are a lot of heroes running around, also the power levels of this game would probably be higher.

Pros: Unique setting, more room to shake things up and think outside of the box. Cons: Unfamiliar setting, if you're going to do ancient greek halfway, why not go all the way?

I am frozen by indecision here and need advice, what do you think?

Hello! And welcome to the boards.
I may be wrong, but from the way you have presented the two options here, I think that you secretly want to do it the second way, even if you don't know it yet!
That's the vibe I get from your post, anyway. So, go for a big super-fantastical world of your own making!

[kiralon]

+1 With the fantastical version, some things will be similar but you have room for others to be different. Maybe one of the players saves one of Medusa's sisters from the curse etc. Maybe Odysseus needs extra crewmembers, but having a living world with stories going around helps with the fun and immersion. I'd certainly make sure to read up on the mythos so you don't get out Greeked by the players though. (Nobody ever talks about Chrysoar the winged boar, brother of pegasus)

[Kraynic]

If you are going with Greek Mythology, there is nothing keeping the characters from being really grounded in the mundane world. It simply means they are even more susceptible to simply being pawns in the games of the gods, or not even being pawns but having their lives affected by the gods moving their pawns around the board of the world. Just depends on which view on the world you want the characters to be operating from. You could even go comedic with it if you wanted to...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhmwE0tW6lQ

[Curbludgeon]

Welcome to the forum, opweini!

For my druthers, I say go full-on sandalpunk. Aiming for historical accuracy is a game you can't win. For many would-be historians the desire to find fault is the point in engagement. When you add in various societal woes of the period like misogyny and all the slavery(being things which could be addressed in a more fantastic game with a light but respectful hand), it becomes a concern of just for whom a firmly true-to-life ~antiquity game is catering, and why they're seeking it out.

To stay in keeping with X-punk conventions, characters should in some way be chafing under/rebelling against elements of established order. The gods are an easy fit for this, as are stylized versions of all the different groups in the East Mediterranean. As fractious as both sets are, characters could easily find themselves in a party of nuanced divided loyalties. This is enhanced when contrasted with developments in philosophy, the creative arts and natural philosophy, especially when a somewhat oppositional relationship is suggested between conventional/divine/creative forces. In a fantastic setting Xenophanes' rejection of gods' anthropomorphism may actually siphon power from the divine font. When Heraclitus proclaims fire is the principle substance, he's not just blowing smoke.

What might a party in such a game look like? An example:

• Cleisthenes, Athenian statesman who while noble of birth helped lead a class revolt and established democratic principles
• Hypatia of Alexandria, developer of the astrolabe, mathematician, and suspected Neoplatonic witch
• Telesilla of Argos, renowned poet, celebrant of the Muses, who rallied an army of women and slaves to repel a Spartan army
• Zeno of Elea, of the paradoxes which first considered certain infinities, who defiantly spit his self-severed tongue at a tyrant and arrested motion by remaining unmoved
• Hero of Alexandria, the most renowned inventor of his age, who devised windwheels and steam engines
• The High Priestess of Demeter and Kore, she who stands as her goddess, Keeper of the Lesser and Greater Mysteries

Now sure, these people were historically separated by hundreds of both years and miles, but when the setting allows divine blessings, astro-magic, and flying machines that's surmountable.

I'd love to hear, opweini, any details you'd be interested in sharing about your project. What sort of scale are you looking to feature? Are clashing armies more or less likely than, say, the Labors of single heroes? Also, what kind of game system are you considering for this? I happened to be flipping through OGL Ancients the other day, and while I wouldn't suggest it as an engine it did have some interesting ideas on armor coverage in battle, mundane uses of rhetoric, different degrees of divine influence, fantastic inventions, etc.

[Stone Gargoyle]

I would go full-on fantasy with Gods, Demi-Gods and fae beings. I would stay away from too much realism in terms of history and established stories. Using this system, you can mix PFRPG and Heroes Unlimited to get what you want. Be creative with it and have fun.

[Rogerd]

If you are looking for examples from existing rpg's...you have a lot to choose from.

Lex Arcana is a Greek inspired one, and fairly gritty from what I recall.

Odyssey of the Dragonlords is for 5e, and the gods resemble those from mythology....but are not Zeus.

Arkadia is also for 5e, and the gods are definitively from Greek myths.

Mythic Battles: Pantheon. It uses it's own engine, and offers a lot of choices for player chargen, like demigod etc.

Palladium Fantasy. You can easily steal from here for your game too, it has demigods, and gods that are very reminiscent of an MCU Asgardian if they were ten feet tall. This could easily be combined with Ninja's and Superspies, and remove the chi powers, so you get a world replete with martial excellence.