Lemurians and Splicer Bio-tech

[Lordonyx]

Anyone know of any published examples of converting Bio-E to PPE? I really want to use the Splicers tech as a template for Lemurian Biotech, using PPE vs BIO-E for adding enhancements and such as well as using actual bio munitions instead of "Technology is bad" but we put missile launchers on our transport aircraft...

This would make a great jumping off point for adding variety to the Biomancy armaments of the Lemurians and Jungle Elves

[Curbludgeon]

Transdimensional TMNT has a Bio-E cost to become a spellcaster but there's not much to build off of, particularly since it uses spells/day instead of PPE. It's been a while since I've looked at Mutants of Avalon, so I can't remember if the druids therein are similar. I could see the utility of an exchange rate going anywhere from 1 PPE:1 Bio-E up to 1 PPE:5 Bio-E, depending on if one is leaning more towards TMNT/ATB or Splicers in terms of point totals.

What enhancements from Splicers are you most interested in converting? Many of the more niche items can be handled via spells, although I do like the idea of adding sensory organs to Lemurian Bio-Armor. Also, is this meant to be a permanent expenditure by the character, such that an Ocean Wizard might, instead of getting a variety of spells, mainly trick out a sea cucumber staff and manta ray cloak?

[ShadowLogan]

I pulled out Heroes Unlimited (2E) and compared the BIO-E for mutant animals vs the PPE for the base animal found in the magic section... There is not an established ratio between BIO-E and PPE (assuming max roll) based on those two sections. Part of it comes down to how BIO-E is acquired in HU/ATB/TMNT, the smaller you are the more BIO-E you have where PPE is not connected to actual size. IINM if you know the base weight/mass of the animal it might be possible to estimate their BIO-E based on one of the tables you can find in HU/TMNT (I'm assuming also ATB).

As I don't own Splicers or Lemuria I cannot be sure if this will work, but look for the PPE/BIO-E cost for identical (or nearly identical) features and use that as the ratio. The more examples that are 1:1 in terms of features to base this off of the better.

[Curbludgeon]

Lemurian Bio-Armor does list PPE creation costs, being in the couple to several hundred range, but since the Splicers Bio-E costs are similar they wildly exceed those seen in ATB/TMNT. A custom Biotic with 150 Bio-E ain't even a thing.

[Lordonyx]

Transdimensional TMNT has a Bio-E cost to become a spellcaster but there's not much to build off of, particularly since it uses spells/day instead of PPE. It's been a while since I've looked at Mutants of Avalon, so I can't remember if the druids therein are similar. I could see the utility of an exchange rate going anywhere from 1 PPE:1 Bio-E up to 1 PPE:5 Bio-E, depending on if one is leaning more towards TMNT/ATB or Splicers in terms of point totals.

What enhancements from Splicers are you most interested in converting? Many of the more niche items can be handled via spells, although I do like the idea of adding sensory organs to Lemurian Bio-Armor. Also, is this meant to be a permanent expenditure by the character, such that an Ocean Wizard might, instead of getting a variety of spells, mainly trick out a sea cucumber staff and manta ray cloak?

So I basically am looking to use Splicers tech as a baseline jumping off point to enrich the Biotech lore of the Lemurians.. for instance in splicers there are bio tech missiles and far more organic weapons, which lend themselves to Lemurian use easily.. also things like slap pads, optical enhancements etc.
One of the main issues I have with Lemurians is communication, how to they communicate with teams or vessels that are leagues or Miles away? or even call grandma in another floating city? there is no explanation given. So I like the idea of the bio communicators from splicers, although magic and telepathy allow for a greater possible range and versatility. The bio-com, sensors and resistances also are appealing as addons to Bio armor. Since Splicers bases available Bio-E on physical and mental endurance and increased by experience controlling and "bonding" with the tech, ie. levels. Engineers however can give out bonus Bio-E which surpasses this "limit" which seems to contradict the "your armor will eat you if its too beefy" excuse and just be an arbitrary reason to justify "levels", unless the engineer also enhances the "bond" for the pilot or biotic.. anyway, this limitation is moot when using symbiotic organisms created with bio-mancy. Bio armor and weapons are created by Gene-mages like spells of legend/rituals, basically time and large PPE expenditures (none of which are explained as being permanent except certain healing spells) Basically the same system of "evolution" could be used on weapon systems (giving characters points based on levels, or rewards) with new "additions" actually requiring new ritual magic gene-alteration by capable Gene-mages.
Anyway.. this is something I have been mind exercising with for years and finally decided to start trying to quantify, since getting more canon Lemurian lore and tech is a pipe dream in the current release reality. Also they will certainly discover the need to diversify and develop more powerful weapons as they discover the forces arrayed against their culture in Rifts earth and beyond.

[Shark_Force]

call me lazy, but unless you want to hand the ability to make the splicers stuff to a PC you don't need PPE costs in the first place.

by which I mean, if it's a secret technique known only to a select few in Lemuria (and those select few don't include one of the PCs) you can just ignore the PPE costs or at most simplify them down to "this is really hard to make and won't be given easily as a reward unless some truly impressive heroic deeds are accomplished" vs "this is a simple reward, and may even be something you could buy with a lot of money", or similar.

in any event, I very much doubt that you'll be finding anything remotely like a direct conversion rate between bio-e and PPE.

[Lordonyx]

call me lazy, but unless you want to hand the ability to make the splicers stuff to a PC you don't need PPE costs in the first place.

by which I mean, if it's a secret technique known only to a select few in Lemuria (and those select few don't include one of the PCs) you can just ignore the PPE costs or at most simplify them down to "this is really hard to make and won't be given easily as a reward unless some truly impressive heroic deeds are accomplished" vs "this is a simple reward, and may even be something you could buy with a lot of money", or similar.

in any event, I very much doubt that you'll be finding anything remotely like a direct conversion rate between bio-e and PPE.

That's cool, but I am looking for some basis in making the costs reasonably "fair and balanced" not just GM fiat.. no one needs to ask these questions if they are going to go with GM Fiat to begin with.

[Shark_Force]

I'm not convinced the bio-e costs are "fair and balanced" in the first place, or that they are strictly speaking intended to be.

just as a very basic example, consider the difference between claws and combat spurs, both enhancements from the same category on the same page of the splicers core book.

for 5 bio-e per limb (so 10 bio-e per pair of limbs), the claws add 1d6+3 to punch damage for an attack. for 10 bio-e per pair of limbs, the spurs add 4d6 to kick damage for an attack (basically the same as punch damage, in most cases at least), plus have an extra ability to do extra damage to specific targets. I suppose the claws at least have the advantage of being retractable, but then, the spurs are noted for being able to fold down as well.

moving on to the next ability, we have another 10 bio-e cost enhancement that adds 2d8 points to bite damage (but only to a single "limb", bearing in mind that bite damage is already starting lower than punch/kick damage.

these are all from the same category of enhancements, and are even on the same page (although the bite enhancement goes onto the next page as well I guess).