What I am doing with armor...

[KillWatch]

For many years now I've been using armor this way;

AR-10/2=DR
AR: 16-10=6/2=3=Damage Resistance. Meaning that it subtracts 3 from all damage done to it.
Rolling above the AR only means that you are able to damage the armor, otherwise no damage is done
Unless someone specifically targets an area that is unarmored, or a hit location table is used, the attacks generally hit the torso

NAR: NAR=DR

[Grazzik]

If it works for you...

I've used something somewhat different:
- Below AR - full damage to armor
- Above AR - half damage to armor, half damage to wearer

Combat is usually such a crunchy drag, why prolong the agony by nerfing hits?

Added benefit (for the GM?) is that the constant damage to armor forces PCs to repair/replace, meaning they need resources/$$$ (i.e. provides motivation to do something).

And, yes, a rules lawyer would hold up a baseball bat and march over to a tank with a glint of righteous indignation in their eye... but that's where a good GM steps in.

[KillWatch]

For us its keeping the characters alive longer, and making the armor more utilitarian. The DR helps with the wear on armor as almost every battle does some serious damage to armor, but that, again is damage not going to the PC

[Grazzik]

Yeah, I can see that would be the case. It also frees up the PCs, so the play style can be more... heroic

BTW with lower risk of personal harm, do PCs use their armor as a crutch in dangerous situations, like jumping in front of fireballs to shield people because they are reasonably assured that the armor will absorb the damage? I'm always curious about how different rules impact PC decisions, as I usually learn something new, so thanks for bringing up the topic.

[KillWatch]

um,... how is armor not a crutch in those situations? I mean in its function it is a crutch, allowing the wearer to perform actions they wouldn't normally, like a parachute. If a player wants to possibly perform a self sacrificial move im all for it
However, it hasn't been an issue of metagaming. Most of my current players are not so rules lawyer-y. They are all relatively new or I introduced them to the game. they don't behave like typical gamers, both good and bad

[matt.reed]

What I've been doing, which some players like, others do not, is that we remove the AR from armor altogether. You get to choose when your armor is struck.

Now this does guarantee something like 'you're not just going to get shot in the head on a nat 20 and thats the end of you' but I will point out that thats also a boon, unless you are the more 'the dice fall where they may' style. I tend to play more narratively.

Now the catch to this is 'You can only spend armor in increments of ten' So if I stab you for six points of damage. You decide if the armor takes 10 damage, or if it slips through the plating, and you take 6 SDC damage.

I've had several situations in the past where someone could have full on high tech armor, someone shoots them in the head with a crit, and whelp that armor didn't help em at all, because gunshots to the head do direct to HP damage, (in the Heroes book in the Robotics section of all places)

Plus you also have people with a high P.P. who just kill you almost regardless of armor, I've dealt with that too, I actually said in Fantasy once, "Well the full plate didn't help this guy at all so why should I bother?" That was back in the more munchkin days, lol.

[foilfodder]

Each G.M. and their players will have a different opinion on what should change and how. When I feel an existing rule needs a change SIMPLE and FUN usually wins out over REALISM.

Palladium game systems rarely take into account the source of what causes the damage (impact, ballistic, fire, explosion, energy beam, etc. ) an attack is simply a number denoting structural points or hit points to be removed from the target. A more realistic system for attacks/damage vs armor might rate armor vs each damage type, but that would be a big job to figure out and present in a useable format.

Remember to playtest. The A.R. provided by S.D.C. body armor can be changed or ignored, but will have significant effect on combat lethality. Ignoring vehicle and Natural A.R. significantly alters the staying power of tanks and super-powered juggernaunts. Called shots vs partial armor like vests or jackets that do not protect the head or legs are possible with existing rules but can always be tweaked.

[Grazzik]

Agreed - simple and fun is best.

What I've liked was what they added in Rifts re knockdown effects depending on the amount of damage caused and then when they added knockdown effects with different types of ammo. The damage itself is rather a mundane element, but the effect of being knocked back 10ft in a firefight, perhaps out of reach of a dropped weapon or artifact, adds cinematic flair. If there could be more clarity on the non-damage side-effects of various weapon types, it could really amp up the fun, without simply worrying where to apply damage and how much.

[knightmare6]

I use AR as a damage buffer, don't bypass, damage to armor as normal. Bypass it, the armor absorbsl the damage first (reduce damage by A.R. rating, but no SSDC damage as normal)

If you have natural AR, the damage is reduced by the AR rating first. Don't bypass natural AR, no damage as usual to the being.

Armor-Piercing bullets? Darkblade? Better not get hit.

Makes A.R. more useful than just a "to-hit" number, especially with how some PCs can have crazy combat bonuses!

[drewkitty ~..~]

For newbs...
How the canon text says how normal armor AR works. Any roll below the armor's AR hits and damages the armor. And any roll above the AR damages the char wearing the armor.

This means all the armors with a AR 4 don't do Jack, if you are following the canon text to the letter.
***
My house rule is that to start off with, all armor's get a +4 to their AR score. So those armors with just a AR 4 will actually Do Something.

I do like the Grazzik's idea that even if the strike roll is over the AR that the damage is halved.
-----------------

Talking about Natural AR....
The Canon text says that any roll 'below or equal to' the NAR does no damage. Only strike rolls above the NAR do any damage to the creature. SDC 1st. Without any chance of doing any damage to the creature's HP till all the SDC is gone.

*******
Force Field Note: They act with the same mechanic as NAR but they only have a AR Score of 4. Which means: if the Strike hits, the Force Field takes the hit and its SDC is depleted before depleting anything underneath.

[NMI]

For newbs...
How the canon text says how normal armor AR works. Any roll below the armor's AR hits and damages the armor. And any roll above the AR damages the char wearing the armor.

This means all the armors with a AR 4 don't do Jack, if you are following the canon text to the letter.
***
My house rule is that to start off with, all armor's get a +4 to their AR score. So those armors with just a AR 4 will actually Do Something.

I do like the Grazzik's idea that even if the strike roll is over the AR that the damage is halved.
-----------------

Talking about Natural AR....
The Canon text says that any roll 'below or equal to' the NAR does no damage. Only strike rolls above the NAR do any damage to the creature. SDC 1st. Without any chance of doing any damage to the creature's HP till all the SDC is gone.

*******
Force Field Note: They act with the same mechanic as NAR but they only have a AR Score of 4. Which means: if the Strike hits, the Force Field takes the hit and its SDC is depleted before depleting anything underneath.

Can you give a book and page reference in HU of something with AR 4?

[drewkitty ~..~]

I will take that the word 'something' that you mean 'armor'.

While not in HU2 the Cloth armor in PF2 core book 270 has an AR of 5. It is one step under Quilted armor (in both HU2 core book and PF 2 core book). The same basic comment when talking about AR 5 armor. It's just the char would have a 1 in 20 chance of the armor doing anything in melee with nat. die rolls instead of none.

Quilted armor having an AR 8 actually has some chance of blocking an attack via the standard canon rules for AR, having a 1 in 5 of doing anything in melee combat under the canon rules with nat die rolls.

[NMI]

I will take that the word 'something' that you mean 'armor'.

I used the word "something" and meant to use the word. How you interpret it is on you. There is no need to correct me or anyone else/

While not in HU2 the Cloth armor in PF2 core book 270 has an AR of 5. It is one step under Quilted armor (in both HU2 core book and PF 2 core book). The same basic comment when talking about AR 5 armor. It's just the char would have a 1 in 20 chance of the armor doing anything in melee with nat. die rolls instead of none.

Quilted armor having an AR 8 actually has some chance of blocking an attack via the standard canon rules for AR, having a 1 in 5 of doing anything in melee combat under the canon rules with nat die rolls.

It works as is because not everyone can afford quality armor. Yes, an AR of 4 sounds pretty silly and pointless, but a person also needs to consider the aesthetics or look.