Your Opinion: Where are the IQ bonuses?

[EliBenedict]

Another metagame question:

Why are IQ bonuses so fleeting in Palladium games?

You can boost all your physical attributes except PB by taking physical skills.

There are martial arts forms in Ninjas and Superspies, and Rifts Japan, that give bonuses to MA and ME along with physical attributes. But none give bonuses to IQ.

Many OCCs give bonuses to physical attributes, or ME or MA. But there are only a small handful that give bonuses to IQ, and even those tend to be just a point or two.

Even with Heroes Unlimited, all of the base attributes got an "Extraordinary [x]" minor power in the core book, except IQ. "Extraordinary IQ" didn't show up until the third Powers Unlimited book.

Why is it so rare to increase a character's IQ? Your thoughts?

[ShadowLogan]

The author/creator of the system likely views the attribute as intrinsic most likely. All the other attributes can be enhanced by skills/training above their intrinsic starting point but raw intelligence (like the IQ attribute) isn't something that can be "trained" up in the real world (you can teach people to be more intimidating/charming, increase their endurance for stresses, move faster, and lift more). Now don't confuse raw intelligence with knowledge (you can be pretty smart, but have a limited knowledge base but also the reverse).

[Aermas]

There is a Rifter full of IQ & other mental bonus giving skills

[Grazzik]

Chaos Earth Core Book pg 26 gives IQ bonuses for genetic manipulation. But if you are simply looking for skills based bonuses, the Advanced Training in HoH give IQ bonuses for Nonhuman Studies and Officer courses. You could maybe home brew some AT courses around game theory, math, gambling, and analytical skills.

Keep in mind that IQx10 is the "exact" IQ score (RUE pg 279) and, as there have been several types of IQ tests published before and since RUE, we don't know what scale this refers to. That said, using the current deviation IQ scoring method, only 5% of people should have > IQ 12. So if your PC rolls 13+, this is already exceptional and IQ bonuses on top of that have a faint whiff of min-maxing. Perhaps a new meaning to a "brain fart"?

[EliBenedict]

Keep in mind that IQx10 is the "exact" IQ score (RUE pg 279) and, as there have been several types of IQ tests published before and since RUE, we don't know what scale this refers to. That said, using the current deviation IQ scoring method, only 5% of people should have > IQ 12. So if your PC rolls 13+, this is already exceptional and IQ bonuses on top of that have a faint whiff of min-maxing. Perhaps a new meaning to a "brain fart"?

Applying the "'real world' IQ = 'palladium' IQx10" principle breaks down for modern IQ tests, though.

As you noted, modern IQ tesrs define IQ as a standard distribution curve with a mean of 100 and a SD of 15.

But palladium ability scores have a built in distribution curve based on dice roll probabilities. A little more than 1 in 10000 characters will roll a palladium IQ of 30. That distribution corresponds to a real world IQ of 155 or so, not an IQ 300 (which would be one out of several trillions).

A palladium IQ of 12 only puts you in the top 37%, which corresponds to a real world IQ of 104 or so.

Given that the only in-game benefit of a one point boost to IQ is a 1% increase to the chance of success for skills, I'd say it's much less min/maxy than, say, a one point boost to PP, which gets you a 5% increase to your chance of success when attacking or defending, and which you can easily get.

[ShadowLogan]

Even with Heroes Unlimited, all of the base attributes got an "Extraordinary [x]" minor power in the core book, except IQ. "Extraordinary IQ" didn't show up until the third Powers Unlimited book.

Yes and No. While the (current edition of the) HU line may have only recently added, the old TMNT line done by PB included such a powerset in their Transdimensional Turtles source book.

The 1E Robotech line included IQ alterations on the Invid Experimentation tables (in Book 5: Invid Invasion) due to the result of biological and/or evolutionary alterations to the human subject. In the 2E line in the "New Generation" and "Genesis Pits" Source Books they revisited the concept, and in the NG SB created a cyber-implant that gave an IQ boost.

Rifts has genetic engineering that allows for the increase in the IQ attribute that can be done by the Gene Splicers, IINM even the CS can do it (WB13), and then there is the Gene Tech (in one of the PWbooks), and quite possibly also the Splugorth (WB2 either Bio-Wizardry OR Kittani genetic engineering). IIRC one of the D-Bees in WB30 is actually a GE mutant (actually not the only one) created recently in SA (implying they could potentially also do gene work).

[jaymz]

How IQ bonuses work are problematic at the get go.

Being more "intelligent" won't make you a better gymnast or swimmer by default in the real world, but it does in Palladium. Especially if your physical attributes do not back it up. A physically above average person of average intelligence is likely to be a better swimmer than an above average intelligence but physically average person.

As for a 1 point increase for something like PP or ME increasing your chances by 5% on a die roll etc... maybe? Bonuses actually increase at half the rate IQ bonuses do, needing a 2 point increases to get that +1 bonus. IQ bonuses start with +2% at a 16 and go to +16% at 30. Others are +1 at 16 and +8 at 30. Now is it a faster increase in that regard? Yes, but most of the combat related skills that I am aware of (HtH, WPs, etc) also do not increase by 5% every level where % based skills do increase anywhere from 1%-5% every single level. I think due that difference between the die rolls needed and progression for the two "classes" of skills (d20 combat skills and d100 non-combat skills respectively) it works out pretty evenly at the end of the day.

The simplest way to deal with this imo is as follows:

Give skills "governing attribute/s" that uses the IQ table for a % bonus to that skill.

Examples:

Gymnastics would be governed by PP (and/or PS)
Seduction would be governed by MA (and/or PB)
Climbing would be governed by PS (and/or PP)

In the case of having multiple governing attributes you can have them both give bonus or just the highest of the two.

Having the skill already means you know HOW. A higher IQ doesn't really mean you know MORE how.

----

Now, separately, SHOULD a few select skills perhaps allow for increases in the IQ attribute? Absolutely. Your IQ is not hardwired and unchangeable for your entire life. Proper training and such can allow some minor increases in one's IQ just as ones intellect can be decreased by various factors (say a roll on the insanity tables that results in trauma/mental illness, for example).

Further, maybe having a 16+ allows one to attempt skills they don't know? Say at half the base skill % but allow the IQ bonus to apply?

----

There are several ways to handle all of this.

Anyway, hope any of that made sense

Make of it what you will.

[EliBenedict]

As for a 1 point increase for something like PP or ME increasing your chances by 5% on a die roll etc... maybe? Bonuses actually increase at half the rate IQ bonuses do, needing a 2 point increases to get that +1 bonus

Thanks for the catch on PP bonuses accruing only at every other level of attribute increase.

Even so, that still has the PP bonus accruing essentially at 2.5% per point, as compared with 1% per point with IQ.

And the paucity of other "chance of success" bonuses to strike and defense (from H2H skills and WP), as compared with the ubiquity of skill increases with every character level makes the relative value of PP greater, when compared to IQ.

Again emphasizing that granting IQ boosts to characters is a fairly marginal effect, in terms of figuring game balance.

I like your idea of using another attribute to govern specific physical related skills and the like (that's what Gurps, D&D and pretty much everyone else does) but it would also have the effect of further increasing the value of PP while decreasing that of IQ.

So again, why so few boost to IQ?

I tracked down the IQ boosting skills content from Rifter 19, and noticed the KS specifically designated it as "optional content"

So I guess it comes down to what some of the earlier commenters noted. KS writes under the working framework that intelligence is fixed and inherent.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Pretty much. Skills, knowlege, and Experience can all be trained, more or less indefinately (In more Modern settings without OCC's. you can just keep taking online and night courses and keep learning more skills regardless of level indefinately), but actual intelligence rarely shifts much, if at all.

Consider: It's not just a skill bonus, or number of skills; it's the way the character thinks about, and interacts with the world. Consider Flowers for Algernon. As the protagonist's IQ kept going up to genious level, he became slowly unrecognizeable to his friends, so slowly he didn't really notice it happening himself, because to him, he wasn't changing too much, he was still "himself", living in his own head. but the way he interacted with the world changed dramatically.

That's more or less why raising IQ is so rare. With few exceptions (if any), genetic manipuation of some sort is the only way to accomplish it. The only way to raise IQ is to change the person, because the IQ is the person. If you could just boost IQ the way you can PS, a person going from 10 IQ to 20 IQ wouldn't be recognizeable as the same person, even to his own parents.

[EliBenedict]

If you could just boost IQ the way you can PS, a person going from 10 IQ to 20 IQ wouldn't be recognizeable as the same person, even to his own parents.

I mean, I guess I get what you're saying, but wouldn't the same logic apply to crazies (who aquire ever increasing mental illnesses as they increase in level) or a psychic who gain more and more sensitive abilities as level (presumably altering the way they perceive the world), or a shifter who makes a life-alterning pact with an extra-dimensional entity? Or for that matter, any character who gets a boost to ME or MA?

All of those characters are graining abilities or traits that would alter their personalities. Character change and development is part of role-playing.

[Library Ogre]

There are several ways to handle all of this.

Anyway, hope any of that made sense

Make of it what you will.

Unsurprisingly, I have written a post about some possible alterations to the skill system.

[Nekira Sudacne]

If you could just boost IQ the way you can PS, a person going from 10 IQ to 20 IQ wouldn't be recognizeable as the same person, even to his own parents.

I mean, I guess I get what you're saying, but wouldn't the same logic apply to crazies (who aquire ever increasing mental illnesses as they increase in level) or a psychic who gain more and more sensitive abilities as level (presumably altering the way they perceive the world), or a shifter who makes a life-alterning pact with an extra-dimensional entity? Or for that matter, any character who gets a boost to ME or MA?

All of those characters are graining abilities or traits that would alter their personalities. Character change and development is part of role-playing.

I mean, if any OCC routinely results in the person becoming unrecognizeable to former friends and family, it's gotta be the Crazy OCC that makes them go insane

And, sure. there's lots of ways for a person to change over time: It's actually natural for that to happen. but an IQ boost is both more dramatic and harder to acheive than most other forms.

The point isn't it's hard for a character to change persay, but that some kinds of change are harder to do than others. As pointed out, it's not actually impossible to change IQ, it's just really difficult.

[jaymz]

As for a 1 point increase for something like PP or ME increasing your chances by 5% on a die roll etc... maybe? Bonuses actually increase at half the rate IQ bonuses do, needing a 2 point increases to get that +1 bonus

Thanks for the catch on PP bonuses accruing only at every other level of attribute increase.

Even so, that still has the PP bonus accruing essentially at 2.5% per point, as compared with 1% per point with IQ.

And the paucity of other "chance of success" bonuses to strike and defense (from H2H skills and WP), as compared with the ubiquity of skill increases with every character level makes the relative value of PP greater, when compared to IQ.

Again emphasizing that granting IQ boosts to characters is a fairly marginal effect, in terms of figuring game balance.

I like your idea of using another attribute to govern specific physical related skills and the like (that's what Gurps, D&D and pretty much everyone else does) but it would also have the effect of further increasing the value of PP while decreasing that of IQ.

So again, why so few boost to IQ?

I tracked down the IQ boosting skills content from Rifter 19, and noticed the KS specifically designated it as "optional content"

So I guess it comes down to what some of the earlier commenters noted. KS writes under the working framework that intelligence is fixed and inherent.

But again you do not get a +1 strike or other d20 based bonuses every level from skills like hth or wp. Those are usually 2, 3, or even 4 levels apart (making you actual per level increase 2.5% to barely over 1%) whereas % skills increase every level by minimum 3% upto 5%.

Using skills to justify pp bonuses as being significantly superior while ignoring % skills steady increases every single level and how the skill types compare in that regard seems a bit of a cherry pick to justify trying to boost it for increased levels. -shrug

[Aermas]

30 P.P gives you +8 (+40%) to every important combat stat & is easier to get what with Acrobatics, Gymnastics, & all the winter sports skills. That's worth like 15 levels in a W.P.

30 IQ gives you +16% to all skills. But that's equivalent to 3 to 4 levels.

[EliBenedict]

Using skills to justify pp bonuses as being significantly superior while ignoring % skills steady increases every single level and how the skill types compare in that regard seems a bit of a cherry pick to justify trying to boost it for increased levels. -shrug

I think you've got that backwards. The fact that you get +5% chance of success every level with most skills, whereas you're only getting that bonus every other level or so with H2H skills, makes the relative value of PP greater when compared with IQ, not less.

Aermas makes this point well. If you're 15th level with H2H Assassin, and have a good WP 15th, you're +9 to strike, and +7 to parry. This makes the bonus +8 for a PP of 30 roughly equivalent to the bonuses for top tier H2H skills at 15th.

Given that those bonuses start at PP 16, you can, roughly, say each point of PP over 15 is equal to one level of training in the skills it modifies.

Nearly all skills get you a +5% increase/level. So that +1%;for each point of IQ over 15 is equal to one fifth a level of training. Even for those stingy skills that give +3% increase/level, each point of IQ is only equal to a third of a level of training.

PP is definitely better, point for point, than IQ.

[jaymz]

Except your NOT getting combats bonis every other level with skills. More like every 3 or 4 levels. This is the third bloody time ivebpinted this out.

[Aermas]

Except your NOT getting combats bonis every other level with skills. More like every 3 or 4 levels. This is the third bloody time ivebpinted this out.

A W.P. in E. Rifles, the (arguably) most ubiquitous weapon for a Man at Arms O.C.C. gives bonuses at 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12

This gives a total bonus of +6 at level 12 which is pretty close to max level. This means your bonus to Strike increases by +5% every other level. It is also the equivalent of having a natural 27 P.P.
Combat also has a target number of 8 to strike in general, so working backwards it's like having a Skill starting at 60% & every other level it goes up by 5%. Also, laser sights & gear bonuses can increase your chances of hitting in combat, by ~5-15%

Most skills start in the 30s-50s range with O.C.C bonuses getting closer to 50-60% for your important skills. This means that on average its harder to succeed on a skill check than on shooting a guy, & IQ valued less overall than P.P.

[EliBenedict]

Except your NOT getting combats bonis every other level with skills. More like every 3 or 4 levels. This is the third bloody time ivebpinted this out.

Sure. Fine. But the point, which you still seem to be missing is that the less frequently yoiu get combat bonuses from skills, the more significant the combat bonuses from PP become, only further emphasizing the fact that PP, point for point, is much more valuable than IQ.

[jaymz]

And what you're apparently intentionally missing is this:

The higher % increases per level (3-5 so 45-75 over 15 levels) versus the infrequent combat bonuses at every 3 levels typically (+1 per 3 levels equivalent of about 1.65% per level or 25% over 15 levels) balances out the difference in the bonuses from attributes (16% vs 40% for totals at 15th level of 61-91% on skills versus +13 or about 65% on combat rolls)

Now add in that most characters don't typically increases attributes after creation barring some form of intervention, not too mention not all combat bonuses stack or are usable in all combat situations ill reiterate.

It. Balances. Out.

[Aermas]

And what you're apparently intentionally missing is this:

The higher % increases per level (3-5 so 45-75 over 15 levels) versus the infrequent combat bonuses at every 3 levels typically (+1 per 3 levels equivalent of about 1.65% per level or 25% over 15 levels) balances out the difference in the bonuses from attributes (16% vs 40% for totals at 15th level of 61-91% on skills versus +13 or about 65% on combat rolls)

Now add in that most characters don't typically increases attributes after creation barring some form of intervention, not too mention not all combat bonuses stack or are usable in all combat situations ill reiterate.

It. Balances. Out.

No it doesnt. See my previous posts. High IQ is worth 3 levels, P.P is worth 12. I broke down the percentages & everything.

[EliBenedict]

And what you're apparently intentionally missing is this:

The higher % increases per level (3-5 so 45-75 over 15 levels) versus the infrequent combat bonuses at every 3 levels typically (+1 per 3 levels equivalent of about 1.65% per level or 25% over 15 levels) balances out the difference in the bonuses from attributes (16% vs 40% for totals at 15th level of 61-91% on skills versus +13 or about 65% on combat rolls)

Now add in that most characters don't typically increases attributes after creation barring some form of intervention, not too mention not all combat bonuses stack or are usable in all combat situations ill reiterate.

It. Balances. Out.

I think you're confusing the issues. If I understand it correctly, your argument is:

-PP bonuses weigh more heavily on combat, whereas as H2H training has a weaker impact.
AND
-IQ bonuses have a weaker impact on skill checks whereas training/education weighs more heavily.
THEREFORE
The skill check and combat systems are balanced when considered against one another.

But the question at hand isn't whether the combat and skill check systems are balanced when compared against each other. The question is what is the relative impact of PP and IQ on their respective system.

You've acknowledged that PP has a greater impact on its system than IQ. Which means that including a skill or two that gives an IQ bonus would unbalance the skill check system less than the existing PP bonuses you can get from acrobatics and gymnastics.

Think of it this way:

Suppose I put 16, half bound apples (PP), and a 8 pound papaya (H2H) on one side of a scale.

On the other side of the scale I put 16 quarter pound plums (IQ), and a 12 pound watermelon (skills) on the other.

It would be wrong to say "because the scales balance, the plums and apples both carry equal weight."

Now imagine someone told you: "You can't put another plum on the scale, because that would unbalance things. But, you can go ahead and drop these two apples (acrobatics and gymnastics) on there. It'll be fine."

That might raise a couple eyebrows.

[ShadowLogan]

Being more "intelligent" won't make you a better gymnast or swimmer by default in the real world, but it does in Palladium. Especially if your physical attributes do not back it up. A physically above average person of average intelligence is likely to be a better swimmer than an above average intelligence but physically average person.

Perhaps IQ in game terms isn't really equivalent to IQ measurement in the realworld (regardless of what is printed), perhaps it is a reflection on how "easy" it is for someone to learn/pickup a skill.

I think you've got that backwards. The fact that you get +5% chance of success every level with most skills, whereas you're only getting that bonus every other level or so with H2H skills, makes the relative value of PP greater when compared with IQ, not less.

Actually no. The IQ Bonus (per RAW) applies to just about every skill (over 400 including subskills and Class specific skills, and that ignores multi-take selections like Language/Literacy with there huge list of options), where the PP bonus applies to a small section of skills (WP: Ancient, HTH, technically WP: Modern does not use PP bonus normally).

It is also a bit like you are comparing apples to oranges here. The skills that check via percent dice have a fixed limit of 98% per RAW, even after bonuses (and penalties) that is a value you can not excede leaving some margin for failure at all times. The Skills that utilize the D20 roll have no upper limit to the bonus they receive (AFAIK), so in theory unless you use a house rule on a Nat 1 being an autofail, it is possible you'd never "fail" (ignoring the opposing D20 roll with its modifiers).

To illustrate:

If you have a PP of 30+ (via attribute roll, skill selection, race, and class, which means +8 to S/P/D), and HTH: MA with the skills of Acrobatics, Gymnastics, Athletics (General), Boxing, Wrestling, Fencing, and WP: Sword. At level 15 you would be +17 to strike with a sword, +22 to parry with a sword, and you'd have a +10 to roll along with +16 to dodge. These can go even higher with the right selection of equipment, race, and class (for examples: an Amaki Duelist is +2 strike with a sword, give them a PF Dwarven superior crafted blade and that's another +2, IIRC there are Power Armor suits that also have bonuses in melee that would apply)

If we take your view that means the +22 to parry with a sword in the D20 mechanic check, becomes 110% in the D100 mechanic check which gets capped at 98% (it also essentially wastes 3 of those parry points when you convert).

[Grazzik]

Maybe it is just me, but I'd be curious if anyone else found these kind of stat comparisons meaningful because I find them distracting from the main point - that there are very few buffs to mental stats in Rifts. Perhaps it's the way Rifts tends to be generally biased towards beefing physical stats rather than mental stats because of the setting's themes of conflict, struggle and survival. Perhaps it is because you can't rollplay "smart" as dice rolls are just luck, you can only really roleplay "smart". The numbers game when it comes to skill bonuses is useful but can easily be made meaningless through multiple skill modifiers depending on the scenario or simply a spiteful GM. So, perhaps don't sweat it so much.

I find it curious that no one seems to mention any use of the Perception mechanic from NB which is heavily impacted by IQ or attribute rolls for puzzle solving. However, these have been discussed at length on other threads. Admittedly, they would have to be house ruled into a Rifts game, but worth considering.

Also, why do discussions like these devolve to talking about Level 15 chars? Is it because people generate characters at Level 15 on the regular or play the same character for years on end racking up massive XP every week? Do a lot of actuarial accountants play Rifts? Sometimes it feels like it. Most of my games I've GMed or just played have characters under Level 6 unless they start at a higher level, say 2d4+2. I don't recall offhand anyone playing a level higher than 10 recently, except a Lizard Mage and an ancient Nightbane that were rolled up as high level chars according to RAW. Given the nature of these chars, a couple points here and there didn't seem to make much of a difference.

So, wrt the initial discussion on IQ bonuses, it is what it is wrt RAW unless you pick a species with a high IQ stat roll, have genetic/experimental augmentation, a few specific skills or Advanced Training, super powers, or magical intervention. There is optional and home brew material that could be used. As to whether this matters depends on the flavor of the game you play and whether it is a thinking game, a hack-n-slash, or something in between.

[EliBenedict]

Maybe it is just me, but I'd be curious if anyone else found these kind of stat comparisons meaningful because I find them distracting from the main point - that there are very few buffs to mental stats in Rifts.

Yeah I got kind of lost in the sauce there.

KS mentions somewhere that "smart" depends on the person roleplaying the character, backing up your take.

I both agree and disagree. In real life, sometimes very smart people act really stupid with very poor judgment.

And it seems like the same argument regarding role-playing could be made about ME and MA (which seem to get more bonuses).

Like, say you havce character who has a very high ME, but who's played by a player that tends to go with the crowd of other players at the table, even against their better judgment.

Or the character who has a high MA, but who's played by a player that's always putting their foot in their mouth.

More fundamentally, role-playing is about acting, taking on a character who is not yourself. I have no idea what a 200-year-old man cursed with immortality would actually act like. But I've tried to play one at the gaming table. And it was a fun challenge.

Seems like playing a character who's intelligence is different than you own would be an interesting challenge.

I think there could even be ways for the game master to facilitate this. It's been years since I played it, but if I recall GURPS had a character trait called "common sense." If the GM agreed to let your character purchase it, then they were supposed to roll an intelligence check for you whenever you're character was about to do something foolish. If you succeeded, they were supposed to warn you "maybe you should think about that." The stated purpose was to help an impulsive player play the part of a cautious character.

Regarding the comparisons of 15th level, yeah that definitely happens. I think at least part of it is because of the erratic way H2H bonuses acrue at each level. If you go three levels with no strike bonus at all, and then suddenly pick up a +2 bonus, it makes level by level comparisons difficult.

Looking at what happens at 15th level gives you, notionally, the ability to see the whole arc of the thing, like noticing that the attack/defense bonuses for max PP are, basically equivalent to max H2H training.

In some sense, that's misleading though, since you get your PP bonuses at 1st level, and most characters aren't getting anywhere near a 30 PP. So the actual situation is more likely that mid-level PP bonuses are dominant at lower levels, but slowly get ecclipsed by training bonuses at higher levels.

[Curbludgeon]

I don't know if I'd say there are few ways to increase "I.Q." in Megaversal.

[Aermas]

I don't know if I'd say there are few ways to increase "I.Q." in Megaversal.

Is there a list of stuff like this for all the attributes?

[Curbludgeon]

I doubt it, and ain't personally inclined to do another one. It wouldn't be that bad for something like MA or PB, and while physical stats get more skill bonuses there would have to be a lot more indexing of e.g. species. A list for Spd would, I think, prove unwieldy.

[Aermas]

I could have sworn one already existed but got blackholed

[glitterboy2098]

generally boosting mental attributes is not a common thing for palladium, and to be honest, i think that works just fine. IRL it is very difficult to amplify someone's ability to learn, remember, handle stress, and so on. especially on a permanent basis. you can give yourself small boosts for a short time using medications, be they simpler things like stimulants or more complex stuff that effects brain chemistry, but those tend to bring with them a lot of side effects that make much of the process a wash. we've had a little success in recent years with using non-chemical stimulants (like EM fields and what not) but those still fall under the "limited duration with unwanted side effects". as a result IRL in most cases the medication approach tends to be restricted to methods to help individuals re-balance their minds to cope with day to day life (like ADHD, autism, etc medications, stuff to help prevent seizures, etc.)

so making it tricky to increase IQ, MA, and ME in the game makes some sense to me.

[Aermas]

generally boosting mental attributes is not a common thing for palladium, and to be honest, i think that works just fine. IRL it is very difficult to amplify someone's ability to learn, remember, handle stress, and so on. especially on a permanent basis. you can give yourself small boosts for a short time using medications, be they simpler things like stimulants or more complex stuff that effects brain chemistry, but those tend to bring with them a lot of side effects that make much of the process a wash. we've had a little success in recent years with using non-chemical stimulants (like EM fields and what not) but those still fall under the "limited duration with unwanted side effects". as a result IRL in most cases the medication approach tends to be restricted to methods to help individuals re-balance their minds to cope with day to day life (like ADHD, autism, etc medications, stuff to help prevent seizures, etc.)

so making it tricky to increase IQ, MA, and ME in the game makes some sense to me.

So you're saying is we need a BrainJuicer O.C.C! We can really punp those IQ numbers up, just gotta juice it! Some quality brain juice going to the ol' grey matter! No low IQ when you're juicing Newton's Apples! Lotsa juice going straight to the brain! Make you pull Double J equations! Jx2=Awesome! After 5 years you blow a gasket & die though.

[Grazzik]

generally boosting mental attributes is not a common thing for palladium, and to be honest, i think that works just fine. IRL it is very difficult to amplify someone's ability to learn, remember, handle stress, and so on. especially on a permanent basis. you can give yourself small boosts for a short time using medications, be they simpler things like stimulants or more complex stuff that effects brain chemistry, but those tend to bring with them a lot of side effects that make much of the process a wash. we've had a little success in recent years with using non-chemical stimulants (like EM fields and what not) but those still fall under the "limited duration with unwanted side effects". as a result IRL in most cases the medication approach tends to be restricted to methods to help individuals re-balance their minds to cope with day to day life (like ADHD, autism, etc medications, stuff to help prevent seizures, etc.)

so making it tricky to increase IQ, MA, and ME in the game makes some sense to me.

So you're saying is we need a BrainJuicer O.C.C! We can really punp those IQ numbers up, just gotta juice it! Some quality brain juice going to the ol' grey matter! No low IQ when you're juicing Newton's Apples! Lotsa juice going straight to the brain! Make you pull Double J equations! Jx2=Awesome! After 5 years you blow a gasket & die though.

...or you don't die with the Last Call, but turn zombie-like looking for... BRAINS! Eat brains or die. No alternatives, only the ol' grey matter. Sentient beings only, no bunny or chicken brains. One whole brain per feeding... no snacks or bits of brain jerky. The more you eat, the more you need. Initially, each brain you eat gives you 96 hours of normalcy (where you can also eat normal food), but every brain reduces this time by an hour until you need constant feeding (think sucking down a brain slurry through a tube). Can't get brains or your feedbag runs out? Go dormant until you smell brains (don't ask how, it's Rifts). All the while, you are still mortal - you are not a supernatural zombie of any kind, just need to eat brains - and start to starve whenever you are dormant and don't eat normal food (I'm sure there are RAW for starvation and its effects in a book somewhere). Dormant too long and you die. Assuming regular feeding with no period of dormancy, after 194 days brains no longer maintain a normal state and the BrainJuicer goes feral. Dormancy management could stretch this out by a few days, or even years with a rigorously strict timetable of dormancy periods and intravenous feeding.

However, note that brains are high in calories (~2400 kcal each), so eating more than one brain a day (usually around Day 183 after Last Call) will cause the BrainJuicer to gain weight unless the energy is burned off through extra activity. Brains are also high in cholesterol, saturated fats, and iron, but despite some really nasty digestive side effects, likely not an immediate life threatening issue for a BrainJuicer before they go feral. Afterwards, expect serious health issues to emerge.

Story Idea:

Spoiler:

The party find a bunker with the promise of a cache of loot. There are no guards, just automated systems. Turns out to be an experimental medical facility that maintains BrainJuicers after Last Call in a dormant state tended to by medi-bots. Some were put under early, but others have already gone feral - all are currently dormant and intravenously feed like coma patients. The party can get into the bunker, but can't get out. The bunker is rigged with a public safety feature to explode if a highly complex random cypher isn't regularly decoded and activated by one of the smart non-feral BrainJuicers. The party has arrived just before one of the BrainJuicers is to be revived to decode the cypher.

Does the party figure out what these comatose people are?
Do they trigger the revival of the BrainJuicers with their brain smell?
Has the supply of brains run out? How do the medi-bots react to the "new supply" of brains?
Does the revived non-feral BrainJuicer suffer from mental health issues or decides it's better to let the bunker blow?
How does the party get out of the bunker?
Does the party intentionally/unintentionally release the BrainJuicers (feral and non-feral) from the bunker?