Could an Atlantean become a Master Vampire?

[darthauthor]

I have read that Atlanteans are immune to phyical transformations.

They can not be turned into a vampire by the slow bite/kill thing a vampire does.

But if a Vampire Intelligence reached out to a really evil atlantean and offered them the choice to become a master vampire could they?

[Grazzik]

A modern True Atlantean? No, but there is a potential for a very ancient vampiric Atlantean...

Cannot be physically transformed by any means, including but not limited to the following: metamorphosis potions and spells, the transformation ritual, vampire transformation, petrification, turn to mist, growth/reduction spells/potions/super powers, curses, wishes, or any other form of magic or supernatural transformation spell or enchantment.

Before you go saying that this is due to the Marks of Heritage so just have an ancient Atlantean from the time before the Marks, DB15 pg 14 says the pierced heart tattoo is to ward off the vamp's mind control powers. Therefore, the inability to be turned into a vampire is physically inherent to the Atlantean. DB15 pg 48 says that this is because the True Atlanteans changed their own genetic structure to prevent the transformation. See pg 13 for greater detail.

If you really want to have a vampiric Atlantean, they would have to be from a time before the genetic change - see the write up on the Vampire Crusades (DB15 pg 11-13). The event that launched the Crusades saw some Atlanteans turned into vampires, Masters and Secondaries. But in that case, it was so long ago that the character probably has substantially less bonuses and benefits (e.g. maybe no Marks since they became mandatory after the fact with the Crusades) than modern True Atlanteans who have benefited from millennia of magical and medical improvement. The Atlanteans from before the DNA alteration were genetically just humans, so just roll up a regular vampire a few thousand years old with the trappings of Atlantean culture.

[darthauthor]

I acknowledge the writing says, "Vampire Transformation"

I question if that transformation means being bitten and becoming a secondary vampire (which I interpret as they can not) or if it includes making a "deal" with a Vampire Intelligence.

Making a DEAL with an Alien Intelligence is, in my mind, different than a vampire transformation.
You look deeper into things. You look at the reason why. If I understand, your understanding, the body of a True Atlantean is wired (by their DNA or whatever) to be impossible to change.

Question: Does that include after the True Atlantean has died?

[Grazzik]

I acknowledge the writing says, "Vampire Transformation"

I question if that transformation means being bitten and becoming a secondary vampire (which I interpret as they can not) or if it includes making a "deal" with a Vampire Intelligence.

Making a DEAL with an Alien Intelligence is, in my mind, different than a vampire transformation.
You look deeper into things. You look at the reason why. If I understand, your understanding, the body of a True Atlantean is wired (by their DNA or whatever) to be impossible to change.

Question: Does that include after the True Atlantean has died?

WB1r (Vampire Kingdoms Revised) is the key source that describes becoming a master in detail.

True Atlanteans cannot become vampires. They have a natural immunity to vampire transformation, and are the sworn enemy of the undead. True Atlanteans cannot be transformed by any means, including the vampire's Slow Kill.

Seems pretty definitive.

However, to answer the question posed, as the True Atlantean has to be alive to make the choice to become a Master vampire (WB1r pg 37), being dead precludes the becoming a vampire since a dead person can't choose anything. They're dead. On accepting to become a Master, the Atlantean doesn't die...they are replaced:

A moment later, the individual undergoes an agonizing transformation, as his body is torn apart and reassembled on a molecular level. The ordinary person is replaced with something new and horrible: A Master Vampire

So, if a True Atlantean cannot transform, then they can't transform into a Master.

[Mouser13]

Personally I think choice overrides. See examples with NPC that impossible combos and see in old FAQ I know most allows Hawk people to lower their immunity they have to roll a save vs magic.

[The Beast]

RAW they couldn't. Personally I'd allow gods and alien intelligences to override that rule so you could end up with a TA vampire lord. However I wouldn't allow a vampire intelligence to override the rule so any TA vampire lords in a game I ran would have been cursed (or rewarded) to be that way (depending on the god).

[Nekira Sudacne]

I acknowledge the writing says, "Vampire Transformation"

I question if that transformation means being bitten and becoming a secondary vampire (which I interpret as they can not) or if it includes making a "deal" with a Vampire Intelligence.

Making a DEAL with an Alien Intelligence is, in my mind, different than a vampire transformation.
You look deeper into things. You look at the reason why. If I understand, your understanding, the body of a True Atlantean is wired (by their DNA or whatever) to be impossible to change.

Question: Does that include after the True Atlantean has died?

It does not say "They cannot become secondary or wild vampires"

it says they are immune to "Vampire Transformation"

That includes Master Vampire Transformation.

They cannot make a deal with a vamprie intelligence to become a vampire. Choice has nothing to do with it, they've been metaphysically and genetically altered to make it impossible. Nothing about a vampire intelligence can override this, it was done specifically as a racial declaration of war against them after all. Preventing even the willing from being turned ensures there cannot be traitors. It makes sense, it was done to forclose the very possibility you're asking about.

[Fenris2020]

RAW they couldn't. Personally I'd allow gods and alien intelligences to override that rule so you could end up with a TA vampire lord. However I wouldn't allow a vampire intelligence to override the rule so any TA vampire lords in a game I ran would have been cursed (or rewarded) to be that way (depending on the god).

On the other hand, even a vile deity would have second thoughts about doing so; the Atlanteans are watched for one reason or another by various deities. A deity might choose to over-ride the Atlantean immunity, only to have five or six deities of two or three other pantheons curb-stomping him/ her for it.

[eliakon]

I would say that if a VI *really* wants an Atlantean Vampire... it can use its Prototypical Deific powers to do so.
But its going to be using a *lot* of PPE and likely an investment of a chunk of its DC and HP to do so...

Short of the VI choosing to play the "I am a god" card...
no you can't become a True Atlantian Vampire, Nightbane, or any other kind of transformation that does not have an explicit excpetion built into it (as a few kinds of transformation do)

[eliakon]

RAW they couldn't. Personally I'd allow gods and alien intelligences to override that rule so you could end up with a TA vampire lord. However I wouldn't allow a vampire intelligence to override the rule so any TA vampire lords in a game I ran would have been cursed (or rewarded) to be that way (depending on the god).

On the other hand, even a vile deity would have second thoughts about doing so; the Atlanteans are watched for one reason or another by various deities. A deity might choose to over-ride the Atlantean immunity, only to have five or six deities of two or three other pantheons curb-stomping him/ her for it.

Meh no pantheon is going to do anything over some random evil Atlantian deciding to join the Vampires.
We know this is canon as the collective response to the Sunaj is... deific indifference. So much for "They are being watched"

[Fenris2020]

RAW they couldn't. Personally I'd allow gods and alien intelligences to override that rule so you could end up with a TA vampire lord. However I wouldn't allow a vampire intelligence to override the rule so any TA vampire lords in a game I ran would have been cursed (or rewarded) to be that way (depending on the god).

On the other hand, even a vile deity would have second thoughts about doing so; the Atlanteans are watched for one reason or another by various deities. A deity might choose to over-ride the Atlantean immunity, only to have five or six deities of two or three other pantheons curb-stomping him/ her for it.

Meh no pantheon is going to do anything over some random evil Atlantian deciding to join the Vampires.
We know this is canon as the collective response to the Sunaj is... deific indifference. So much for "They are being watched"

Not at all.
The Sunaj are an internal matter.

[eliakon]

RAW they couldn't. Personally I'd allow gods and alien intelligences to override that rule so you could end up with a TA vampire lord. However I wouldn't allow a vampire intelligence to override the rule so any TA vampire lords in a game I ran would have been cursed (or rewarded) to be that way (depending on the god).

On the other hand, even a vile deity would have second thoughts about doing so; the Atlanteans are watched for one reason or another by various deities. A deity might choose to over-ride the Atlantean immunity, only to have five or six deities of two or three other pantheons curb-stomping him/ her for it.

Meh no pantheon is going to do anything over some random evil Atlantian deciding to join the Vampires.
We know this is canon as the collective response to the Sunaj is... deific indifference. So much for "They are being watched"

Not at all.
The Sunaj are an internal matter.

Which presumes that the gods all know, and care.
Which given that the WOG is "no one knows" I find to be... unlikely (then again I find the Sunaj to be unlikely but they are canon so I... cope)
Also the logic is inverted.
That is because "allying with an Alien Intelligence" is "allying with an Alien Intelligence"
If an Atlantian can willingly ally with a Splugorth to get what it wants, it can willingly ally with a VI to get what it wants as well.

[Fenris2020]

RAW they couldn't. Personally I'd allow gods and alien intelligences to override that rule so you could end up with a TA vampire lord. However I wouldn't allow a vampire intelligence to override the rule so any TA vampire lords in a game I ran would have been cursed (or rewarded) to be that way (depending on the god).

On the other hand, even a vile deity would have second thoughts about doing so; the Atlanteans are watched for one reason or another by various deities. A deity might choose to over-ride the Atlantean immunity, only to have five or six deities of two or three other pantheons curb-stomping him/ her for it.

Meh no pantheon is going to do anything over some random evil Atlantian deciding to join the Vampires.
We know this is canon as the collective response to the Sunaj is... deific indifference. So much for "They are being watched"

Not at all.
The Sunaj are an internal matter.

Which presumes that the gods all know, and care.
Which given that the WOG is "no one knows" I find to be... unlikely (then again I find the Sunaj to be unlikely but they are canon so I... cope)
Also the logic is inverted.
That is because "allying with an Alien Intelligence" is "allying with an Alien Intelligence"
If an Atlantian can willingly ally with a Splugorth to get what it wants, it can willingly ally with a VI to get what it wants as well.

And the splugorth is still unable to transform the Atlantean into a bio-borg or similar.

[eliakon]

RAW they couldn't. Personally I'd allow gods and alien intelligences to override that rule so you could end up with a TA vampire lord. However I wouldn't allow a vampire intelligence to override the rule so any TA vampire lords in a game I ran would have been cursed (or rewarded) to be that way (depending on the god).

(so we recall what started this)

On the other hand, even a vile deity would have second thoughts about doing so; the Atlanteans are watched for one reason or another by various deities. A deity might choose to over-ride the Atlantean immunity, only to have five or six deities of two or three other pantheons curb-stomping him/ her for it.

Meh no pantheon is going to do anything over some random evil Atlantian deciding to join the Vampires.
We know this is canon as the collective response to the Sunaj is... deific indifference. So much for "They are being watched"

Not at all.
The Sunaj are an internal matter.

Which presumes that the gods all know, and care.
Which given that the WOG is "no one knows" I find to be... unlikely (then again I find the Sunaj to be unlikely but they are canon so I... cope)
Also the logic is inverted.
That is because "allying with an Alien Intelligence" is "allying with an Alien Intelligence"
If an Atlantian can willingly ally with a Splugorth to get what it wants, it can willingly ally with a VI to get what it wants as well.

And the splugorth is still unable to transform the Atlantean into a bio-borg or similar.

The Splugorth minions are at least yes.
We don't know for a fact if a Splugorth itself could undo the transformation the Atlantians wrought and mess with them if it decided to break out its divine powers and not just use the toy box. But given that there are several canonical loopholes and oversights in the power that can already explicitly used to cause a transformation of an Atlantian... I sort of suspect that anyone bringing full god mojo to the table can mess up basically any mortal in its power.