So, about the Meta-

[Fenris2020]

Does anyone actually use the Rifts meta-stuff as-written?
Do you handle it more like the Four Horsemen or Xiticix (and other problems)?
Do you ignore it completely?

As for the groups I've been in... we're mainly military/ veterans, and laughed off the whole Siege on Tolkeen as pure lunacy. We did appreciate Tolkeen getting fleshed out, and the CS won in our campaign, but it was costly. General Holmes' foray into the Hivelands didn't work out well, and the survivors perished out in the wilderness after that long with no re-supply. The cities had troubles with adult dragons 'porting in and out from time to time, casting spells like Annihilate and so on. The civilian death-toll was pretty high. The CS never figured out that some of the civvie tourists walking around taking photos were servants of dragons.
We tried to work in the Xiticix, but the world-book upped their power levels a LOT from what they originally were; even with NPCs helping, we only managed to take out a small hive.
Juicer Uprising went pretty much along the lines of how it did in the book.
Taking out the Horsemen went through a LOT of characters, both PC and NPC. Katrina Sun is a recurring NPC.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Does anyone actually use the Rifts meta-stuff as-written?
Do you handle it more like the Four Horsemen or Xiticix (and other problems)?
Do you ignore it completely?

As for the groups I've been in... we're mainly military/ veterans, and laughed off the whole Siege on Tolkeen as pure lunacy. We did appreciate Tolkeen getting fleshed out, and the CS won in our campaign, but it was costly. General Holmes' foray into the Hivelands didn't work out well, and the survivors perished out in the wilderness after that long with no re-supply. The cities had troubles with adult dragons 'porting in and out from time to time, casting spells like Annihilate and so on. The civilian death-toll was pretty high. The CS never figured out that some of the civvie tourists walking around taking photos were servants of dragons.
We tried to work in the Xiticix, but the world-book upped their power levels a LOT from what they originally were; even with NPCs helping, we only managed to take out a small hive.
Juicer Uprising went pretty much along the lines of how it did in the book.
Taking out the Horsemen went through a LOT of characters, both PC and NPC. Katrina Sun is a recurring NPC.

In my experiance: People tend to use the Meta for anything that doesn't directly impact the game or players. I.E. unless it's part of the campaign it happens on schedule. if it is part of the campaign, then it varies wildly by GM and preference.

[Sohisohi]

No, because I allowed my players more freedom with the palladium catalog and generally use the most expanded version of the content provided, I use the events as markers of time then the specific timeline of events as-written. Infact, I've changed so much of the lore to make so much of the content fit. . . I can no longer remember what is canon and what is imagined.

I think the canon is something like BtS > CE > RIFTS, but Laslo breaks the whole "time travel is impossible" thing.

That being said, if you are new to the game, stick with the books until you are comfortable breaking away from it.

[darthauthor]

I agree with Fennis about the Siege on Tolkeen being biased in favor of the CS.

It is NOT impossible for the CS to win, just no the way they did it.
Holmes would be been wiped out or resuced by the CS when he turned around and went back the way he came into the hivelands.
So much for the invasion from the North.

Members of the Federation of Magic would has seen a chance to revenge themselves on CS supply lines. Not so much as helping Tolkeen as they are helping themselves and takng revenge upon an old enemy. Opportunistic Bandits would do the same.

I honestly don't think the emperor would attack Tolkeen while wage a war of unification Free Quebec.

I feel Lazlo would send aid to Tolkeen supply wise.

Dragons are arrogant but not stupid. Mature ones would wipe out CS units left and right on their own (say 100 a day via magic such. Although finding them would make that number smaller).

As generals of their human subjects their tactics would be quite intelligent. I'd imagine, if I were one of them, would come at the CS in a couple of ways:
1. Start a platoon of Dragon Blood Juicers as my special forces.

2. Buy some T-Man from Atlantis to make another platoon.

3. Transport troops and supplies via teleportation and spells like "Circle of Travel." This alone would outmanuver most CS platoons. This would allow the CS to be attacked from at least two side.

4. Form a platoon of human mercs to impersonate CS forces to pilot CS vehicles. This undercover platoon will know all each others faces and secret sign language cues. Together, and on their own, they will infiltrate CS squads and relay intelligence, damage or destroy the weapons and equipment of the CS, and in the extreme assassinate.

5. Hire Sunaj assassins and maybe a platoon to do what they do best.

6. Make a deal with the Splugorth. For their aid they can take CS humans as slaves.

7. Transport or eradicate D-Bee labor (farming, mining, etc.) outside of the CS terriorty to deny the CS of the benefit.

8. Steal undefended crops grown in the CS and mined ore using Circle of Travel, Featherlight and teleport: lessor to which I could hide them to Tolkeen or to aid D-Bees I have sent away.

9. Adopt a strategy of wearing the CS down by:

A. Setting traps and mines in the path of CS advance to slow their pace.

B. Hit and run tatics designed to directly damage CS vehicles, armor, equipment and food.

I did some math on ley lines and supportive spells and their casters. Logistically, Dragons and Tolkeen has the CS outmatched. The spell "Sustain" cast on a ley line by an average ley line walker should cover a man for a week. Most wars being won by attrition Tolkeen and the Dragons would have this one in the bag.

While magic and psychic healing would put soldiers back in action in a day with the benefit of a ley line.

At a ten killed CS for every one tolkeen defender ratio would wipe out the CS military to the point of them falling back once they have lost a third to half their fighters.

Not to mention the demoralization factors on the human military.

Glancing at Siege of Tolkeen #6

Dragon Population
19 Ancient Dragons - The Dragon Kings (only 4 are female).
101 Adult Dragons - The Princes (33% are female).
252 Dragon Hatchlings - The Heirs (40% female).
Note: An additional 2D4xlO Hatchlings (typically ranging from 1-4th level of experience) and 4D6 Adults (1D6+3 level of experience) are likely to be present at any given time. These are
transients and travelers who come to Freehold to visit, rest, trade goods, exchange information, or learn new things.

Even if only 10% participated in the fight against the CS They should do enough damage to wipe out one CS platoon a day. Their biggest problem would be finding enough CS in one spot.
They regenerate so their wounds would heal. They can all teleport and turn invisible at will.

They have allies too.

Estimated Breakdown of the non-dragon population:

1,200-2,000 Megaversal residents with another 1D4xlOO visiting at any given time. Temporal Raiders, Thornhead Demons, True Atlanteans, Kittani and demons, among others) and creatures of magic — only a thousand or so humans. Magic is very common.
2,000-3,000 Gargoyles
1,000-1,500 Gurgoyles
I,200-2,000 Brodkil
520 Simvan (two tribes, the River Lords and Blood Fang)
61,500 humans
57,000 D-Bees
11,000-15,000 others
60,000 Refugees (predominantly human and D-Bee)

Not as powerful as Dragons but they ought to be able to take out 1 to 10 times their number of CS. They may NOT work well together but even on their own they would kill a few CS before leaving. Their greater power is in trade of their magical abilities with each other. I find it difficult to imagine the CS would not lose half their number in any attempt to destroy or capture the dragon kingdom.

[Zer0 Kay]

First off when did Meta start to mean the opposite of what it means? The game as written, the world built by the authors is canon not meta. Meta, last I checked was short for metagaming which is a game within a game and in the case of RPGs it is essentially PK or playing with player knowledge that the player knows about the game but the character shouldn't know. So the 4HotA and Mechanoids and Shemarrian origin... having your character know about that when they shouldn't would be meta, the GM using canon in the game is not meta those things occurring in the game without the characters knowledge or influence is not meta. If those events happened and nothing was reported or experienced by your character that would reveal that those things happened and your character mentioned something... THAT would be meta.

I'd rather break... I have broken the time travel is impossible rule rather than breaking canon. And in doing so I have broken canon. Accidental time travel is possible but no one capable of controlling rifts has found a way to selectively do so. They have found that they have accidentally done so but can't replicate the conditions that cause it. As if the mechanism is within the Rifts and not within their machines.

[Zer0 Kay]

Double post

[Warshield73]

No, because I allowed my players more freedom with the palladium catalog and generally use the most expanded version of the content provided, I use the events as markers of time then the specific timeline of events as-written. Infact, I've changed so much of the lore to make so much of the content fit. . . I can no longer remember what is canon and what is imagined.

I think the canon is something like BtS > CE > RIFTS, but Laslo breaks the whole "time travel is impossible" thing.

That being said, if you are new to the game, stick with the books until you are comfortable breaking away from it.

Just because you use the "meta" plots doesn't mean your players don't have freedom. This is just the progression of the story that is this world. It's no different than when I used to play WE Star Wars in that your players didn't take part in the movie plots but those events had an impact on the world your players were in.

In my games I have the plots occurring and if the players want to take part in it they can. So while my original players took part in Mechanoids and Four Horsemen they had very little involvement in Tolkeen or Xiticix war and only got into the Juicer Uprising at the very end.

But just because they don't participate doesn't mean there is no effect. To me the meta plots make the world feel more dynamic and real and the players are more like people surviving in that world and less like gods shaping it.

[Grazzik]

These days, most storylines in my games start mid PA 110 to early PA 111, so everything canon is history and may or may not factor in the background. It gives a lot more open space to play in and take meta-story elements wherever the players want without constraint. By the time the meta-story is advanced by a new book a few years, my games will have run their course and will be ready for a new PC and storyline starting just past the new endpoint, allowing any new meta-stories to be factored into the background.

[Orin J.]

i always see the narrative in the books as "how we did it" which is to say the vision they had writing but not required (or good, some of this is pretty silly). the CS never gets the magical publicity turnaround they snuck in after the juicer uprising and ends up taking on a lot of issues with morale when i run it and that usually turns the main conflict into a cold war between the FoM and lazlo/new lazlo while the CS flails at tolkeen to the usual tune of no real victory and massive civ. casualties that a war between comparable powers entails. makes for lots of things for the players to do.