Psionic Power of Object Read

[darthauthor]

Can the Psychic power of Object Read but used on body parts or even a whole Corpse?

[Library Ogre]

I'd allow it; you're basically reading the impressions that have been left on an object, and a corpse is an object intimately tied to a specific aura.

[ShadowLogan]

Can a case be made for use on a corpse? Possibly.

Though we know the power is likely of limited value given True Atlanteans haven't been able to use this power to work out the identity of the Sunaj that are hunting them down. This leads me to think that corpse reading isn't intended to be within the scope of the power. Now it could certainly work on something the corpse is wearing/holding than the actual corpse, but again we have the metagame issue of the Sunaj/TAs.

A bit off topic, but magic wise there is no "Object Read" equivalent spell (and there are several Psychic powers that manifest as Spells), but Necromancy does have a spell suited for the task "Object Read the Dead"

While magic doesn't offer any "Object Read" equivalent as a spell, there is the Necromancy spell "Object Read the Dead" (Level 3, BoM pg189) which appears geared for this specific scenario. Though the wording of the Necromancy spell suggests the psionic version might also work on corpses ("a power similar to the psionic ability of object read, only this power is limited to diving things about the dead"), but the information gathered via the spell seems to be restricted to Impressions only (most of the examples seem outside the scope of the psionic power impressions listing IMHO that lead me to think no because of this part).

[Soldier of Od]

I would say no, specifically because there is a power - Object read the dead - (as mentioned above) to do this.

Object read allows you to gain information about the previous owner. Although it is possible to own a person (through slavery and such), I don't think the owner of said person could leave their impressions on them in the same way as a non-living object, because of that person's own aura.

If you want to learn something about the corpse, then object read personal items found on or with the body. If they are naked with no other items around (and you don't have a necromancer to object read the dead), tough luck.

[darthauthor]

Shadowlogan,

Thanks for the reference "Object Read the Dead" (Level 3, BoM pg189)

I feel an argument could be made for either way.

However, just because there exists a spell that CAN do it does not mean the psychic verision cannot.
There are many spells that do what psionics can.
I see no good reason, at the moment, why it can not go both ways, and the psionic can work like a spell.

As for the Sunaj. I did not know any been captured dead.
If limbs had been salvaged from a blood test and what not would probably show it to be Atlanteant (or at least Human) blood.
So, in my mind, even without Object read, if they had a Sunaj limb, checking it out through a microscope or what not would reveal them to be True Atlantean.
I thought the Sunaj had a self destruct tattoo in case of capture.

[ShadowLogan]

I agree an argument could be made either way. I focused on the not aspect as previous poster already covered the yes aspect.

That a spell exists doesn't preclude a psionic ability, but wording in the spell as I said could go either way regarding the psychic ability. Plus Palladium in this instance tends to take the view that Spell versions are the same as the Psionic version, just with a different power source.

Re: the Sunaj.
It's a plot hole regarding them is my point. I don't think anything has been said one way or the other, but it's hard to believe that the Sunaj haven't meet with some level of failure in all the time they've been at this revenge plot that someone/thing hasn't been recovered in the 50years or so they've noticed this going on (other clans suspect the actual clan knows something but aren't sharing per WB2) that they could have popped off an Object Read on.

[Warshield73]

I have to agree with Soldier of Od and say no. While object read probably won't work here are a few psionics that should.
1) You can use See Aura to learn about a body. There is no requirement that I have seen that requires the body to be alive.
B) Psychic Diagnosis should tell you how the person died and probably even give an estimate on how long they have been dead.
III) If your GM is very generous they may allow empathy to give you the a reading on the person at time of death. I have allowed this myself a few times but only when the brain is at least somewhat intact and only if it was traumatic. If the person died from old age, a sudden accident, or shot in the heart while asleep then no.

[Library Ogre]

I would say no, specifically because there is a power - Object read the dead - (as mentioned above) to do this.

Conversely, one might say that "Object Read the Dead" is a more limited version of Object Read... Object Read will read dead bodies and other inanimate objects, Object Read the Dead will only allow you to read dead bodies. The existence of the specific power doesn't mean that the general power (which came first) loses capability... WP Staff doesn't mean that WP Blunt no longer works for staves.

Object read allows you to gain information about the previous owner. Although it is possible to own a person (through slavery and such), I don't think the owner of said person could leave their impressions on them in the same way as a non-living object, because of that person's own aura.

Or you might consider the person to own themselves, and to have left psychic impressions on the body they no longer inhabit.

[Warshield73]

I would say no, specifically because there is a power - Object read the dead - (as mentioned above) to do this.

Conversely, one might say that "Object Read the Dead" is a more limited version of Object Read... Object Read will read dead bodies and other inanimate objects, Object Read the Dead will only allow you to read dead bodies. The existence of the specific power doesn't mean that the general power (which came first) loses capability... WP Staff doesn't mean that WP Blunt no longer works for staves.

I disagree with mostly about ORtD being limited. This spell provides a huge amount of data that is just not available to the psychic power. If you allow something like this though I think you have to be more specific. When a character wants to OR a vehicle for instance I make them focus on a control system, tire, hand, whatever the vehicle has so you may need to do the same with a body. I still think this is more in the realm of psychic diagnosis.

No matter what this is a hard line to draw. You can't OR a dead cow but you can a leather jacket? If you can read a dead body what about the severed hand of a still living person? You can't read the biological hand of a dead person but you can the bionic or cybernetic one? What if it's a biossytem replacement? Can OR biological excretions like poop? How about Urine?

Object read allows you to gain information about the previous owner. Although it is possible to own a person (through slavery and such), I don't think the owner of said person could leave their impressions on them in the same way as a non-living object, because of that person's own aura.

Or you might consider the person to own themselves, and to have left psychic impressions on the body they no longer inhabit.

I think this is the one way I could see it. In all PB games when you die your PPE doubles and leaves your body, presumably your soul leaves too so in that situation is your body just another discarded possession.

[Library Ogre]

No matter what this is a hard line to draw. You can't OR a dead cow but you can a leather jacket? If you can read a dead body what about the severed hand of a still living person? You can't read the biological hand of a dead person but you can the bionic or cybernetic one? What if it's a biossytem replacement? Can OR biological excretions like poop? How about Urine?

There are special techniques for object reading poop.

However, with regards to the leather jacket, I look at it this way: the leather jacket is made of cow, yes, but it is not the cow. It has been transformed into another object by processes designed to change its very nature. Furthermore, it's emotional context... it's psychic imprint... are almost entirely going to be about the jacket, not the cow it came from; that part has been stripped away in the course of scraping, tanning, cutting, and sewing.

On the other (severed) hand, a body part is still the person. It is now detached, and unalive... an object... but it is still the thing. The detached bionic hand was part of them, soaking in their essence, absorbing psychic resonance from them. That's what the psychometrist reads... the psychic impressions left in the flesh or plastic.