Making Necromancers a force to be feared

[GoliathReturns]

Inspired by discussions on another thread-
Necromancers, in lore and legend, are a feared type of magi, for numerous reasons. But, looking back through reams of fantasy, one the biggest tropes about them is their ability to raise an army of the dead, and use it to terrorize the living. Unfortunately, in our rules set, this is not only unfeasible, it's actually impossible with RAW.

As such, I've got some proposed changes, tweaks, and additional powers for the necromancer. The biggest changes are the last 2.
1) Spell knowledge
Problem: As is, necromancers can only gain spell knowledge from someone else who knows the spell, or if they find a spellbook with it. This gets even worse when you consider their only way of speaking with the dead (like a past necromancer) comes from a wizard spell that is on the "necro related" list.
Proposal: Starting at level 2, necromancers can select one spell from the necromancer, bone magic, or "common wizard spells related to necromancy" list, up to their own level of experience, much like a standard wizard gaining spells.

2) Union with the Dead
Problem: time taken to do it greatly hinders the fear factor and oomph.
Proposal: For a permanent sacrifice of PPE, the transformation can be made permanent. The death mage is limited to 1 permanent transformation per 2 levels (1 @ 2, 2@ 4, etc, up to 7 @14). The permanent PPE costs are double the normal PPE cost of the transformation (IE, rodent claws typically cost 10 PPE, making them permanent would remove 20 PPE from the mage's total).

3) Augmentation and Additional Appendages
Problem: time taken to do it, as well as limited duration, makes the power less valuable
Proposal: For a permanent PPE sacrifice, the augmentation can be made permanent. Limited to 1 permanent augmentation per 4 levels (1 @4, 2 @ 8, 3 @ 12). PPE cost is a sacrifice of triple the normal augmentation cost (so, adding a dragon's tail, which normally costs 20, would remove 60 from max PPE). Additionally, the creature must be killed according to a secret ritual known only to necromancers (and never shared), which binds a piece of the creatures soul to the limb being taken. This limits the magic, meaning only one piece (two in the case of wings) can be taken from a creature. Even if you kill a dragon, you cannot use the tail and skull, or tail and horns. Only one limb/body part per creature. If you want a dragon skull, dragon tail, and dragon wings, you need to kill 3 different dragons. This ritual also means that if the creature is resurrected, part of its soul is tied to the necromancer, and the being is only at half power unless they're able to reclaim their body parts from the death mage.

4) Raising the Dead
Problem: Summoners are better at animating the dead than necromancers are.
Proposal: A secret ritual, known only to necromancers (and never shared). A secret blend of oils and pigments are used to draw the symbol of death on a skeleton or corpse (ingredients costs approx 1 gold per 5 symbols), the necromancer must stand anoint himself using the bodily fluids (blood or otherwise) from a vampire or other undead (requires 2 pints of fluid). After this, he performs a ritual that takes approximately 10 minutes. The result is that he can animate all marked dead within 300 feet. With this ability, he can animate up to 150 per level, and they remain "alive" as long as he is. Note, this is separate from the "normal" method used by necromancers to raise the dead, and the two abilities do stack- the animated dead from one do not apply to the limits of the other. PPE cost 200

5) The Monster
Problem: Not really a problem, just some flavor that is ideal from fantasy lore
Solution: This one I'm still working out details of. Basically, Frankenstein's Monster, flesh golem, etc... I think I can have some details figured out by tonight


--
GS

[ShadowLogan]

But, looking back through reams of fantasy, one the biggest tropes about them is their ability to raise an army of the dead, and use it to terrorize the living. Unfortunately, in our rules set, this is not only unfeasible, it's actually impossible with RAW.

It is possible with existing Rituals in the Main Book.

CIrcle Magic has an example (Animate & Control Dead Power Circle, pg149-50) that could raise an army rather quickly. Now this is a Circle Magic Ritual, but I have no problem with allowing a Necromantic version to exist (some Wizard Invocation Rituals are derived from Circles, like Protection Circles: Simple and Superior, then you have its various pentacles that are similar to circles like Summon & Crontrol: Animals, Rodents, Canines, Create Zombies or Golems so it could be a circle or a pentacle).

Given enough time, you can create a horde of Zombies and Mummies from the Wizard Invocations (https://forums.palladiumbooks.com/viewt ... p?t=185482), though sourcing the materials & PPE could slow production down. Per text in the Create Zombie there are stories of entire mines and plantations staffed by Zombies in the Western Empire and the the Land of the Damned.

IIRC Rifts mentions plagues of Zombies, though doesn't go into detail, so there might be a "plague" version(s) one could introduce if the Necromancer had access to such things (maybe its covered in Chaos Earth's Resurrection book? I don't have that line)

[Marcethus]

I like the ideas you have for #'s 1 and 4. Not sure about the others. Not sure I like the idea of making permanent sacrifice of PPE, especially available to players. As an NPC Villain you can tweak and modify however you see fit for your story and rules lawyers be damned.

[GoliathReturns]

*snip*

RAW, any spell that's level 7 or above can have a ritual version. I used the circle as the basis (and I notice I forgot to add the PPE cost, I'll fix that after this post. Looking at 200 PPE). Basically, I made a near-identical specialized necromancer ritual, that functions like the circle, so that the circle remains specifically a summoner thing.

Zombies and mummies are quite different than the standard animated dead. I wanted to keep this to be focused on the basic variety, letting zombies and mummies stay with their unique rituals.

I like the ideas you have for #'s 1 and 4. Not sure about the others. Not sure I like the idea of making permanent sacrifice of PPE, especially available to players. As an NPC Villain you can tweak and modify however you see fit for your story and rules lawyers be damned.

I like the permanent cost of PPE for things that are permanent, especially for something as powerful as these could be. It makes you think long and hard if the cost is worth it. And, it's not like this becomes a requirement, just an option.

If you want to so it without a permanent cost, I'd say the PPE cost should be drastically higher. Conversely, you could leave it as a permanent cost, but making it much lower- say, the regular PPE cost instead of double/triple as I suggested.

--
GS

[ShadowLogan]

Other suggests for fixing the Necromancer:
1. Necromancers have a variation of the (Wizard) Ward Spell that allows them to raise an animated skeleton with a longer duration (or instead of the Wizard "wards" they have a necromantic "ward"/"ward-phrase" to do that)
2. Rifts Mystic Russia introduced new Necromancer magic IIRC, it can be found in Rifts BoM (lumped in with necromancy, though I'm not sure if was supposed to be its own thing or not as I don't have Mystic Russia), that I'm not sure if it was ported to PF but if it wasn't it would give them more options (IINM a lot of them are item creation)
3. Necromancers have a variant of the Nxla summoning portals that create its Xombies (Rifts WB12), though here instead of creating Xombies it creates animated dead and not linked to Nxla but another necromatic "force" (call it entity, god, AI, elemental plane, etc).
4. Necromancers who have access to diabolism (either as multi-class or another person) could place permanency wards
5. Necromancers have magic item(s) that allow them to raise armies of animated dead, and can't do it as strictly a ritual or spell (aren't there examples of this already in lore, like Maxpray* or Sword of Bone ((LotD2 pg176))
6. Necromancers have a spell/ritual to create Skeleton Fighters/Servants that are less advanced forms of Mummy, but more advanced than the Animate & Control Dead spells. Or result in "cheaper" versions of Bone Fiends or Eviscerals (LotD2)

*They mention a Raise Dead Circle, which is a different name than the Circle Magic version, so maybe there is already a circle out there (no need to invent a new one).

[Northern Ranger]

Your changes fix key problems and keep necros balanced. The soul-binding ritual is cool but could slow things down. The big raise-dead ability is strong, add limits to avoid breaking balance. Keep “The Monster” simple and thematic. Overall, good tweaks with some care needed on complexity.

[Curbludgeon]

There is some "official" stuff in the Rifter, such as Bloodlust Zombies in Rifter 62 and the Mortificant effect Zombie Apocalypse in Rifter 50, and Mummy Immortalus in Rifter 78. A Necromancer can also command Vampires for a time and has access to demons and entities.

[Plane]

Entities is a good point, the Tectonic Entity in BTS and Rifts (not sure if it's in PF) can be made from various things including "skeletal remains" meaning it should be able to animate a corpse too.

Mystica Russia had introduced new spells for necromancers to create new permanent magic items capable of casting spells (free on a per-day basis like D+D, old-style PRPG, or rune weapons) so we could just introduce more of those like one that could animate skeletons in lieu of them spending PPE on it.

[foilfodder]

I put some research into how different Palladium systems handle zombies and the casters that create them. I had purchased and painted up Zombicide Black Plague and saw it as a good opportunity to use the boardgame pieces in my roleplaying sessions.

As others have mentioned, a Wizard, Witch, Diabloist or other O.C.C. can use a Power Circle (p. 118 PFFRPG ) in creating the undead. Game-mechanics wise the undead is rather powerful. The Fantasy, Heroes Unlimited and Rifts versions all create zombies which are immune to normal weapons. If you want hordes of zombies your players can take down by the dozens, you'll need something else, or have them well-equiped with magic weapons

What I came up with was infection style zombies. A disease that progresses in corrupting a living host. The mind grows weaker and although the body appears to rot, the host becomes stronger and more resistant to damage. The Necromancer can control them through basic commands, like a pack of trained dogs, and save magic to protect themselves. Players have the moral complication of fighting through sick/deranged living beings rather than mindless undead.

[Reagren Wright]

Hey guys love all this necromancy talk. Necromancers and I have a long history together, especially since I introduced a race of beings into the
Palladium Fantasy Role Playing Game that use them and their witch wives to turn sea serpents into sailing vessels Love to talk
about Necromancy and ideas on how to implement it as a player and/or G.M.