Plausible Reason

[Zer0 Kay]

I would like a plausible way to assissinate...EMPEROR PROSEK. I've ran this topic in the past and just want to see if anyone has come up with a way to do it or the reasons it can't be done. If you have a better plot against another powerful Palladium icon lets here it but after you answer my query

RULE: Can't use anything to the tune of "Your the GM, just say it happened."

[Mack]

Auto-G. (Psyscape)

[Rallan]

Any class with temporal magic. Any class which can attack from the astral plane, or physically enter and leave the astral plane. Piece of cake really.

[Zer0 Kay]

What about all the psychics with sixth sense around him?

[Nekira Sudacne]

Any class with temporal magic. Any class which can attack from the astral plane, or physically enter and leave the astral plane. Piece of cake really.

psi-stalkers would have you soon.

they can have Astral Projection too. once they sense an Astral Traveler, one with Astral Projection (multiple actually) and other psychics with it will be after you.

[Svartalf]

What about all the psychics with sixth sense around him?

problem with 6th sense is it's personal. it detects danger, aimed at YOU

[Temporalmage]

You would only need someone with good security clearance, not too high as to draw attention. Black mail him or kidnap him to get the opportunity to brain wash him. Show that one person the error of Emperor Prosecs ways, and that the Emperor must die. (Psionics and magic could easily be used as long as it didn't leave any tracable residue.) Then send this hapless person back into Chi-town to continue his/her job. When the opportunity showed itself your brainwashed agent will get as close to the Emperor as possible and do the job for you.

Killing any one is very possible. Nothing is totally protected. If it wasnt' possible to kill the emperor then how in the hell did his WIFE get kidnapped by Dunscin???

[Zer0 Kay]

What about all the psychics with sixth sense around him?

problem with 6th sense is it's personal. it detects danger, aimed at YOU

Read it again. It will also warn you if someone close to you is in danger. I'm sure they mean emotionally, however, I'm sure his uh...Psy Battalion guards are quiet close to him they are likely all Zealots.

[Zer0 Kay]

Killing any one is very possible. Nothing is totally protected. If it wasnt' possible to kill the emperor then how in the hell did his WIFE get kidnapped by Dunscin???

Likely because at the time the CS was equally paranoid about psyonic and mystic powers and didn't have or at least use psystalkers. The Psystalker program likely didn't come into its prime until after Dunscon abducted Prosek's wife.

[Zer0 Kay]

Come on all I was asking for plausible. What I should have asked is how does one eliminate a single target with a single shot who is protected by a group of guards some of which have 6th sense? In other words how do you bypass 6th sense?

[Zer0 Kay]

I am going to say yes and no to the original post yes there has got to be a way to assassinate the Emperor but it is damn near impossible to do so without making him a Martyr only driving the Coalition even more
Lynx

Ah a Martyr but to what end? If it is beleived that NGR did it rather than Tolkeen. What if Tolkeen does do it and finds a way to blame it on Quebec?

If it's a matter of who takes over. If the assassination can be done once it can be done again. As long as they don't know how it was done.

[Temporalmage]

Come on all I was asking for plausible. What I should have asked is how does one eliminate a single target with a single shot who is protected by a group of guards some of which have 6th sense? In other words how do you bypass 6th sense?

Oh, well if that's all you want to know then thats easy!! Just have your assasion have the psycic power of Group Mind Block. It has a range of 120 feet, and 6th sense only has a range of 90 feet. Plus you could always argue the sniper angle, at ranges that would beat out the range of 6th sense.

Remember that the Emperor is a man of the peaple. He has an ego just like everyone else. That means that he would like pictures of himself shaking hands with the troops, participating in parades, being present at grand openings of military bases, or even manufacturing facilities...etc. All of these leave openings for a well funded and highly motivated person to assasinate him. A group would be too large and too easily noticed before they could get the job done. This would be better for a lone individual with a singular purpose to acomplish. IE the lone gunman.

[grandmaster z0b]

I don't think it would be too hard; do some recon with either astral projection or a psi-ghost, then cast mystic portal to his location and shove a nuclear device through to the other side. Sure 6th sense will go off but how far can he get in the 3 seconds before the bomb goes off?
Actually it would probably be even easier with a band of magically militaristic and fanatical CS- haters. A suicidal mage strapped with explosives is one very hard thing to fight. He can spend years preparing amulets and other magic items to protect him from incoming fire and all he has to do is get close enough (in the case of a nuke thats a few kms) to the emporer and press a button.

[R Ditto]

Tough thing to deal with.
The first major problem is that Prosek would be under Chi-Town, where all the other high level/elite military/political personal would be, and not up top with the high level citizens. (Why the heck would he live up top where he would be in danger of some big sneak attack blowing the roof off of Chi-Town and wiping out the upper levels? He wants to be under his huge human shield, not on top of it)
Second, there isn't much that can be done to get past 6th sense unless you use a delayed attack.
Stuff like Group Mind Block stops mind attacks, empathy and telepathy, not 6th sense. 6th sense detects danger/threats to life in general, not simple hostile intent. E.g., a land mine or pitfall has no mind, but 6th sense will detect it since it is life threatening.

My best guess (from thinking of ways to kill Mechanoids) is a delayed measure, like a well hidden/concealed weapon set to a timer. It is totally harmless and immune to 6th sense until the timer reaches its final count down and is minutes away from exploding.
Another possible action is a time release substance. Again, no life threatening things detected until right before it fully releases, and by that time, it is to late.
Combine either with the fly sized robots ARCHIE has. Preferably in a place to where the explosion creates something like a bullet wound... the guards would be looking for a concealed gunman, not some little bug that may be hiding in Karl's hair, ear, or nose.
Another thing for the fly robot is some sort of contact poison, or even cyanide. It only needs to make brief contact with skin or get close enough to release cyanide in Karl's face.

One other obstacle might be Clairvoyance. Yet another obstacle might be the Vanguard. They could have an operative "botch" some sort of action and get away, putting the guards on high alert for more or less anything, especially if the "fleeing mage" dropped something hinting at some sort of hit on Karl Prosek.

One final idea is a multiple approach. While security is dealing with one 6th sense alert, they suddenly have a few more to deal with. Make it a catch 22 situation, so that they only have time to deal with one or a few, but not all of the threats.

For a really crazy idea... like the fact salt is made of two elements that are actually dangerous by themselves. Make a chemical (or nanites) of some sort that will break down salt into its base elements. It could be harmless by itself, and be in, say a drink or something. Next, have a chef accidently put a little to much salt in Karl's food, but not to much. As Karl finds his food is a little salty, and he goes to take a drink, the salt in the food ingested gets broken down into sodium (volatile when exposed to moisture) and chlorine (toxic gas from the inside). By the time danger is detected, they will have to work fast.

One final idea... get a tank with a 120mm smooth bore cannon and APFSDS rounds... 6th sense goes off, they can't find any danger in the immediate area and nothing on radar and the Dog Boys/Psi-Stalkers sense nothing psychic/supernatural/magical... and when Karl is "under cover" and immobile, then 3 miles away, a 120mm gun fires, and takes out Karl THROUGH his body guards/cover. The APFSDS would be DU or Tungsten, which means its going to go through stuff like a hot nail in a nail gun shot through butter.

And to think what all you can learn from military movies/shows, James Bond, and cooking shows... (no wonder to much salt is bad for you...)

[Dustin Fireblade]

Killing any one is very possible. Nothing is totally protected. If it wasnt' possible to kill the emperor then how in the hell did his WIFE get kidnapped by Dunscin???

Likely because at the time the CS was equally paranoid about psyonic and mystic powers and didn't have or at least use psystalkers. The Psystalker program likely didn't come into its prime until after Dunscon abducted Prosek's wife.

Just FYI, Lady Prosek was kidnapped in 102/103 PA timeframe. Prosek's youngest son was killed at the same time too.
Psi-stalkers, Dog Boys and Psi-battalion were in full operation.

[Temporalmage]

Easy answer...

Because God ((KS)) won't let him die in that universe.....


Harder answer with game logic....

He already has died many many many times... however chi-town science downloads his personality and memories every couple of days or so into several special computers... when he gets tagged by assassins they down load his mind back into a new body ((after all cloning dog boys isn't an issue, why not clone people?)) and say that the assassins killed one of his "look alikes".

For added fun.. exchange science with "Vanguard" magic......

For really added fun.. exchange science with "Dweller Beneath" type monster like the one that supported the Kreeghor.

[Ed]

1) PFRPG-style summoner with goons.
2) Karl's Name is well-known.
3) Summoning is not (on this world)
4) Summoner must use pwer circle ("Summon Pawn")

5) Karl appears in middle of circle.
6) He is then misted by goons

Simplistic? Yes.
Possible? Yes.
Probable? Not really, as summoning is mostly unknown on Rifts Earth.
Would tehre be a defense? Nope.

Sure there is. Karl Proseck isn't his "True Name" summoners work off a beings true name not his public name.

[Nekira Sudacne]

1) PFRPG-style summoner with goons.
2) Karl's Name is well-known.
3) Summoning is not (on this world)
4) Summoner must use pwer circle ("Summon Pawn")

5) Karl appears in middle of circle.
6) He is then misted by goons

Simplistic? Yes.
Possible? Yes.
Probable? Not really, as summoning is mostly unknown on Rifts Earth.
Would tehre be a defense? Nope.

Sure there is. Karl Proseck isn't his "True Name" summoners work off a beings true name not his public name.

that's what his daddy called him. that's his true name.

[Mack]

1) PFRPG-style summoner with goons.
2) Karl's Name is well-known.
3) Summoning is not (on this world)
4) Summoner must use pwer circle ("Summon Pawn")

5) Karl appears in middle of circle.
6) He is then misted by goons

Simplistic? Yes.
Possible? Yes.
Probable? Not really, as summoning is mostly unknown on Rifts Earth.
Would tehre be a defense? Nope.

Sure there is. Karl Proseck isn't his "True Name" summoners work off a beings true name not his public name.

that's what his daddy called him. that's his true name.

Uh oh. She invoked the "daddy rule." That's right up there with the Chewbacca defense!

[Temporalmage]

1) PFRPG-style summoner with goons.
2) Karl's Name is well-known.
3) Summoning is not (on this world)
4) Summoner must use pwer circle ("Summon Pawn")

5) Karl appears in middle of circle.
6) He is then misted by goons

Simplistic? Yes.
Possible? Yes.
Probable? Not really, as summoning is mostly unknown on Rifts Earth.
Would tehre be a defense? Nope.

Sure there is. Karl Proseck isn't his "True Name" summoners work off a beings true name not his public name.

that's what his daddy called him. that's his true name.

So what's his MIDDLE name? Most of the peaple I know have a middle name at the very least. But none of them use thier middle name, and outside of close family no one knows it. Mine isn't listed on my drivers license, credit cards, bank statements, etc. So I geuss that means I can't be summoned. Lucky me! Also my wife is Catholic. She has two names given to her due to religion, the one she was born with, and now she's married to me and has a differant name. That's four names total. Which would be her true name?? She role plays so understands the question and I asked her...her response was that even SHE didn't know. I've read in other sources that a persons true name is more or less a spiritual thing that the person very rarely realizes themselves. What we would need would be a difinitive answer in what a true name is. Just my opinion.

[Nekira Sudacne]

1) PFRPG-style summoner with goons.
2) Karl's Name is well-known.
3) Summoning is not (on this world)
4) Summoner must use pwer circle ("Summon Pawn")

5) Karl appears in middle of circle.
6) He is then misted by goons

Simplistic? Yes.
Possible? Yes.
Probable? Not really, as summoning is mostly unknown on Rifts Earth.
Would tehre be a defense? Nope.

Sure there is. Karl Proseck isn't his "True Name" summoners work off a beings true name not his public name.

that's what his daddy called him. that's his true name.

So what's his MIDDLE name? Most of the peaple I know have a middle name at the very least. But none of them use thier middle name, and outside of close family no one knows it. Mine isn't listed on my drivers license, credit cards, bank statements, etc. So I geuss that means I can't be summoned. Lucky me! Also my wife is Catholic. She has two names given to her due to religion, the one she was born with, and now she's married to me and has a differant name. That's four names total. Which would be her true name?? She role plays so understands the question and I asked her...her response was that even SHE didn't know. I've read in other sources that a persons true name is more or less a spiritual thing that the person very rarely realizes themselves. What we would need would be a difinitive answer in what a true name is. Just my opinion.

according to Palladium fantasy, where the summoner is from, your true name is your first and last name, that your parents gave you.

Middle name has nothing to do with it.

taking a new name in life at any time for any reason has nothing to do with it.

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

my first level dedicated martial artist kills him with Activate Negative Chi.
the psi-stalkers and dog boys have no idea and go nuts looking for a mage or monster. i win rifts!

[Dead Boy]

I would like a plausible way to assissinate...EMPEROR PROSEK. I've ran this topic in the past and just want to see if anyone has come up with a way to do it or the reasons it can't be done. If you have a better plot against another powerful Palladium icon lets here it but after you answer my query

RULE: Can't use anything to the tune of "Your the GM, just say it happened."

The first fact you have to accept is, Prosek can not be assassinated inside of Chi-Town. He's too well protected in there by a variety of defenses, both mechanical and psychic in nature, and may be some magic courtacy of the Vanguard without his knowing. So with that said, the best and only time Karl can be killed on one of few occasions he leaves the city for whatever reason. Outside he's vulnerable. Catch him in the air in his personal DHT, while he's inspecting the troops at army fort X, or should he ever attand some negotiations as a guest of the other party (depending on their defenses and such), and there's a chance of getting him. Even so, he will have an army of security around him at all times, (it's been postulated that he has at least a few high level [lv. 10+] CS Mind Melters and Psi Nulifiers as his personal body gurads), so it won't be easy. But it can be done.

[Zer0 Kay]

Interesting. In three years the consensus seems to have turned from my original post where it seemed that most people thought it near impossible to assassinate JP to most people believing it can be done. Where is Doom III when you need him?

[Nekira Sudacne]

according to Palladium fantasy, where the summoner is from, your true name is your first and last name, that your parents gave you.

Middle name has nothing to do with it.

taking a new name in life at any time for any reason has nothing to do with it.

There are numerous examples wherein a major Deity or individual has a long string of middle names to thwart true name magic. Marduk is an example.

Ahhhh. But True Name magic is almost unknown on Rifts. Why would he have the precaution?

You missed the point I was trying to make. Nekira was saying that middle names don't matter. But I'm saying that they do. That's all.

he fooled them by making them think that all those middle names were part of his true name.

they wern't, and so when they tried to invoke them, they didn't get him, as he wasn't called all that.

[Zer0 Kay]

It is safe to assume he has a "Secret Service" style group of guard, probably lossa Dog Pack types to watch out for magic etc. I myself have established him having tech and troops not in the books (you know, secret mods to his transports and such) just like POTUS does today. Personal prototype armor and other tech, blast shield on podiums, etc. Automated and hidden defences are likely, as well as area surveillance by hugh flying aircraft everywhere he goes. He probably also has elite bodyguards he goes everywhere with that are uber loyal supertrained SPECWAR types. On call medics and emergency evac means ready at all times are a must.

The catch is the same as bodyguarding today. No client can be protected, when they are a visable pubilc figure, from a suitablly dedicated attacker willing to lose their life. If the attacker is willing to "suicide bomb" or such, you could take Prossie out. The ramifications of such an act, and what the Coalition would resort to to prevent this (Ressurection spell?) are up to GM.

Verry nice I like how you do both sides with thought.

[Temporalmage]

"Writers Block" had a very good point about ramifications. The question shouldn't be "can" the Emporer be killed. But rather "Who" would dare kill the Emporer.
Here me out for a moment...
We all remember what it was like directly after 9/11. How everyone was wanting some sort of retribution, no matter what it cost, or who it was aimed at. Now imagine if the attack had taken out the president. How much further would the US have gone to seek retribution? Now insert Rifts. If the Emporer was assasinated, how far would the CS go to uterly destroy the party's responsible? I can imagine secret agents from Lazlo, New Lazlo, and even Dweomer trying very hard to stop such an act. If for no other reason than out of fear that such an act would be linked to them. No one is crazy enough to order the Emporer's death, just in case the assasion fails and the CS find out who was behind it. Even Dunscin isnt' that insane...yet.

[Zer0 Kay]

"Writers Block" had a very good point about ramifications. The question shouldn't be "can" the Emporer be killed. But rather "Who" would dare kill the Emporer.
Here me out for a moment...
We all remember what it was like directly after 9/11. How everyone was wanting some sort of retribution, no matter what it cost, or who it was aimed at. Now imagine if the attack had taken out the president. How much further would the US have gone to seek retribution? Now insert Rifts. If the Emporer was assasinated, how far would the CS go to uterly destroy the party's responsible? I can imagine secret agents from Lazlo, New Lazlo, and even Dweomer trying very hard to stop such an act. If for no other reason than out of fear that such an act would be linked to them. No one is crazy enough to order the Emporer's death, just in case the assasion fails and the CS find out who was behind it. Even Dunscin isnt' that insane...yet.

That is why one country or rogue faction should do it and frame another group. I don't care how powerful the CS, Lazlo or any other Rifts "superpower" is they still don't have the intelligence community the U.S. and Russia(?) have and look at how often they are incorrect. Like I suggested before it would be interesting to see what the CS would to if they beleived Triax, or Free Quebec or any other human nation assassinated Prosek.

[Temporalmage]

Like I suggested before it would be interesting to see what the CS would to if they beleived Triax, or Free Quebec or any other human nation assassinated Prosek.

Do you think the CS would attempt to carry a war past Atlantis to get to the NGR? Just curious about your opinion.

[Zer0 Kay]

Like I suggested before it would be interesting to see what the CS would to if they beleived Triax, or Free Quebec or any other human nation assassinated Prosek.

Do you think the CS would attempt to carry a war past Atlantis to get to the NGR? Just curious about your opinion.

Sanity says no. But as you said before if they beleived that NGR did it what would they do?

[Zer0 Kay]

Let alone putting the Naruni on either side of this given their "love" of the CS....ooohh, me thinks my Rifts campaign may see a twist some time....

Your welcome.

[Borast]

The first fact you have to accept is, Prosek can not be assassinated inside of Chi-Town. He's too well protected in there by a variety of defenses, both mechanical and psychic in nature, and may be some magic courtacy of the Vanguard without his knowing. So with that said, the best and only time Karl can be killed on one of few occasions he leaves the city for whatever reason. Outside he's vulnerable. Catch him in the air in his personal DHT, while he's inspecting the troops at army fort X, or should he ever attand some negotiations as a guest of the other party (depending on their defenses and such),<snip>

1) Prosek could easily be assassinated in the very bowels of Chi-Town. Be very difficult, and hideously expensive in terms of time, effort, and cash. (i.e.: talk to a certain "assassin" that stalks the NB dimentions for one.) HOwever, there are other technological means that could assassinate Prosek and his son and not leave identifiable traces. After all, there have to be SOME poisons that even Golden Age science cannot detect in the body.

2) How do you know that's not one of his half-dozen of so doubles? After all, outside of Chi-Town (or other HEAVILY fortified location), he's always in his armour! So, the guy who'se head you blow off could just be Joe Double who's paid obscene amounts of money to sit on his can all day, and go wave at the troops once in a while.

[Zer0 Kay]

I would think that would work to a certain extent, but who's to say that Joe 2 wouldn't use it as an excuse to attack someone else? Even if the evidence made it look like NGR, in the CS they could just say Free Quebec or Lazlo did it and get the people frothing at the mouth for retribution. NGR can't be attacked with so many enemies close to home, so you bide your time. Keep those friends close, and enemies closer. You still get KP dead, but the end result might be difficult to predict.

Joe 2 may do that but at the same time I dought that he'd let his fathers assassination by X be unavenged. I know he's a propaganda genious but there are ways of making the "evidence" public.

[Zer0 Kay]

You wouldn't need Magic Pigeon. All you'd need is Second Sight + Teleport: Lesser + one CS standard-issue grenade. Magic detection? The spells were cast elsewhere, not anywhere near Prosec--which may very well render them undetectable to psi (the rules are unclear). Why a standard CS grenade? To throw investigators off the track--they'll run around in circles looking for the traitor for hours, days, or weeks before coming to the conclusion that it couldn't have been an inside job. If they come to that conclusion instead of executing a bunch of people who are not liked by the coming regime. I can easily see Joe II framing Bradford for the assassination, for instance, if he couldn't find someone else to blame.

Sixth sense detects the danger not the intent. So even though the caster may be miles away, the danger of the grenade being there will trigger it off. I see Sixth sense as a focused, momentary, short range (temporally) precognition.

As far as the second sight, teleport idea consider using it as a TW sight and muzzle upgrade for a solid round sniper rifle.

[Dead Boy]

You wouldn't need Magic Pigeon. All you'd need is Second Sight + Teleport: Lesser + one CS standard-issue grenade. Magic detection? The spells were cast elsewhere, not anywhere near Prosec--which may very well render them undetectable to psi (the rules are unclear). Why a standard CS grenade? To throw investigators off the track--they'll run around in circles looking for the traitor for hours, days, or weeks before coming to the conclusion that it couldn't have been an inside job. If they come to that conclusion instead of executing a bunch of people who are not liked by the coming regime. I can easily see Joe II framing Bradford for the assassination, for instance, if he couldn't find someone else to blame.

Sixth sense detects the danger not the intent. So even though the caster may be miles away, the danger of the grenade being there will trigger it off. I see Sixth sense as a focused, momentary, short range (temporally) precognition.

As far as the second sight, teleport idea consider using it as a TW sight and muzzle upgrade for a solid round sniper rifle.

Though there is some debate about whether one can teleport into Chi-Town in general, I think it would be safe to assume that the places Prosek and the CS political elite dwell in the city are well shielded. Anything that is cut off form the world with environmental shielding (like a robot vehcile) can not have any magic spell affect its interior. That includes teleprot spells. So you can just forget that idea, guys.

[Zer0 Kay]

Though there is some debate about whether one can teleport into Chi-Town in general, I think it would be safe to assume that the places Prosek and the CS political elite dwell in the city are well shielded. Anything that is cut off form the world with environmental shielding (like a robot vehcile) can not have any magic spell affect its interior. That includes teleprot spells. So you can just forget that idea, guys.

Where have you read that? From what I recall as long as the person has been there before he can teleport into it. Now I'd agree on vehicles and armor. First because one shouldn't be able to teleport into something that is moving. Second even if you do let them teleport into a moving target they've probably never seen the inside of the one their facing. NO they couldn't just because they've been inside another one. (that's as dumb as well these are all identical tract housing so I should be able to teleport into anyone since I live in one.) I can understand you point on not allowing second sight to penetrate since you don't know where to go. However the TW sniper rifle I thought up has the following:

Summon and control animal (hummingbird) enchanted with the following:
silence
d-shift ghost
d-shift distance
remote viewing
Teleport Superior

A environmentally sealed anything will not stop entangibility powers from working.

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

His own son will kill him. Joseph II will reach a point where he feels ready to rule, and there will be nothing to stop him.

oooh, SCANDAL.

[Zer0 Kay]

The only canon material that prevents a teleport is magic. Something of which the coalition, for some strange reason ( ), lacks.

There is no technological shielding vs a teleport.

No there isn't but if a force field can stop a Phase weapon it should be able to stop a promethian from passing through and the powers derived from them.

[Soundwave]

it says that prosek makes an annual inspection of the lone star facility. i'm sure the security would be pretty tight for an outing like this but still probably a lot less than when he's holed up in a fortified city. I think the best bet would be to hit him whilst he was in transit and bring enough people to be sure you get the job done. Emperor or not, if you shoot down his plane (or whatever) he's dead anyway. The trick would be to get both him and his son. There seems to be little point in killing one just to have the other pick up where the first left off. Similarly, I don't really see a motivation for his son to do him in. Not only does it say that he's "100 percent loyal" but his aberrant alignment would also indicate that he's not likely to have a hand in the succession process. Besides, its all coming to him eventually anyway so there is little point in advancing the inevitable. No, perhaps the best way to kill prosek is to kill his son. The emperor is aging. It is unlikely that he could father another heir to take the throne quickly enough such that by the time prosek dies (of old age) the new son will be old enough to take over. This means that, in a best case scenario, a regent will have to be put into office until the heir "comes of age." Looking at the people who would be in line for such a position, with the exception of general Cabot (who is even older than prosek), very few of them are likely to hand the reins of power back to prosek's heir. Kill Joseph and the Prosek line ends.

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

Looking at the people who would be in line for such a position, with the exception of general Cabot (who is even older than prosek), very few of them are likely to hand the reins of power back to prosek's heir. Kill Joseph and the Prosek line ends.

great, then we get a new tyrant who's going to "Do things right this time!"

killing Prosek isn't enough. You have to get to the people. Make them want to govern for themselves. And give them the knowledge and ability to do so.
i dont' know how you would go about doing it, but that's why I'm not in politics.

[Zer0 Kay]

The only canon material that prevents a teleport is magic. Something of which the coalition, for some strange reason ( ), lacks.

There is no technological shielding vs a teleport.

No there isn't but if a force field can stop a Phase weapon it should be able to stop a promethean from passing through and the powers derived from them.

Who said prometheans? Mages, adults dragon, dragon hatchling, etc. derive their powers from magic.

Where else would they?

The Prometheans powers are used by others as Magic, any Dragons is the embodiment of magic.

[Zer0 Kay]

I've seen it written in several places that you can't teleport thru an energy shield (like the ones the Naruni sell). Only other energy shielding on rifts earth that is technolgoy based that I can think of is on The X-1000 UltiMax, but as far as I can tell there never was and still isn't any energy shielding technology produced by the Coalition. (correct me if i'm wrong)

That the general populace knows of.

[Svartalf]

The only canon material that prevents a teleport is magic. Something of which the coalition, for some strange reason ( ), lacks.

There is no technological shielding vs a teleport.

Book of magic disagrees with you.

It states that no spell cast outside of power armor, robots, or vehicles can have any effect on anything on the inside... and vice versa. That is the BASIC rule for ALL magic.

Some spells DO say that they ignore that rule... Teleport is not one of them.

As a side note, I emailed Palladium with the question about teleporting fusion blocks into power armor to kill the drivers, and they said that it wasn't possible because of the before mentioned rule.

Page 21 in the magic book for the power armor, robot, vehicle rules...

Page 114, and 153 for the Teleport rules.

Tech ... that rule does not apply in this particular case.

If you can teleport through a mountain into a sealed chamber, there's nothing particular in a bot or suit of power armor that will prevent teleportation. Where the Rule applies is that you could not cast a teleport spell at a PA pilot to get him out of his suit (of course the spell does not work like that, but we could posit a strictly "teleport others" one for argument's sake) anymore than you could cast an agony spell at him.

But if the mage is on Recon, and needs quick flight and casts T port specifying the passenger seat in so and so's bot (provided he knows the interior layout of the bot well) ... there's just no reason for that to be infeasible.

I don't know who answered your question about the fusion block.... but I'd say whoever that was answered through the arse. the one good reason you can't teleport an object inside an occuppied suit of PA is that there is likely no free space for you to know of so you can send the block into that.

[Zer0 Kay]

I'd have to go with Tech, kinda. I would agree that one can't teleport into a MOVING target. Even if you know the layout of the inside you don't know where it's going to be the minute you appear. Same I'd say goes for PA or just BA. The teleport power has a high rate of failure if you try teleporting into an unknown location. So I figure if it's moving you can't do it. The human body is always moving even if you can't see it with the naked eye.

So I'd say teleport into a stationary vehicle you know the layout of shure, a moving target no.

[Zer0 Kay]

Try a Cosmo-Knight.

FTL or supersonic flight past him giving a speech in an outdoor theater would cause him (and a bunch of others) to start to hemorrhage from the concussive force.

A. Cosmo-Knight=good
B. Plan includes harming innocent yet misguided bystandards
C. Only Cosmo-Knight that would do such a thing would be a fallen one and they don't have the powers.

So you must be kidding. Unless you think that the Forge beleives that the CS is a Galactic threat so a few innocent bystandards would be acceptable to rid the Galaxy of him. Now I'm joking, the CS may think the galaxy revolves around them but the Galaxy don't give a hoot about them.

[Svartalf]

I've seen it written in several places that you can't teleport thru an energy shield (like the ones the Naruni sell). Only other energy shielding on rifts earth that is technolgoy based that I can think of is on The X-1000 UltiMax, but as far as I can tell there never was and still isn't any energy shielding technology produced by the Coalition. (correct me if i'm wrong)

interesting assertion ... could you quote sources more precisely plz? I'd like to see for myself, and correct my opinion if it was formerly wrong

[Svartalf]

You say the rule doesn't apply.... I would ask why.

Note: I don't care about your personal feelings of what makes sense... Rifts doesn't make sense... I'm not asking why you think for game balance it should work that way... I'm asking why RULE wise.

Magic has limits/rules governing how it works in Rifts.... that is one of the limits/rules... state the rule that says T-Port doesn't apply to the lPower Armor/Robot/vehicle limit/rule.

Page Number would be nice... as I provided book and page number for my rule.

It's not even a matter of making sense. the rule of "not through a PA or bot hull" is specifically aimed at a mage trying to cast a spell at a target so protected (or casting from such a vehicle at a victim outside). It has no effect on how a spell effects apply.

If the spell effect is to travel, even through solid matter, then a PA suit's shell won't do a thing to prevent it at all.

Zerokay's objection about teleporting to a moving target, or one whose precise location you don't know, while I don't agree with it (the crux to teleportation reaching its intended destination is visualising the place, not knowing where you are relatively to it; and teleporting into a moving vehicle could be ground for a nasty jostle, not for the Tport failing) has more merit. Even if I wen't along with it, I'd allow free teleporting into a stationary PA, bot, or vehicle.

I know the rules and limits governing Rifts magic ... have known them intimately for some 12 years now. precisely nothing ... and do I need to give page number? May I suggest you read again on BoM p 21, especially after the first sentence of §2 (you know which section)? I wish I could quote the place the rule first appeared in RMB, the text there might have been clearer, but I just can't find again where the damn passage is.

Sorry, but if you want to limit the effects of teleport, you're invoking the wrong rule... you're applying this one in that case is clearly a mistake.

[Zer0 Kay]

You shouldn't be able to teleport into body armor either. I think the point here is that environmental sheilding on a room doesn't matter. If you've been in it before. It's not like when you teleport you turn into a gas that won't be able to seep into the room. So you're saying that magic can't penetrate a sealed room so if a Rift erupts under Chi-Town all the sealed rooms won't be permiated by the blue energy field? Don't think so.

The reason why most of the magic powers will not work on the occupants of a vehicle is because there is no line of site. I believe the book actually says something to that effect. Teleport doesn't require line of site however you must know the exact point of destination which would be impossible in a moving vehicle or one that has moved since the last time you've seen it.

[Svartalf]

You shouldn't be able to teleport into body armor either.

The reason why most of the magic powers will not work on the occupants of a vehicle is because there is no line of site. I believe the book actually says something to that effect. Teleport doesn't require line of site however you must know the exact point of destination which would be impossible in a moving vehicle or one that has moved since the last time you've seen it.

Not teleport into body armor? whew, and I thought I had found a way to suit up nice and quick !!

And I don't agree with you. the spell makes it amply clear that visualisation, not knowing where you are relative to target is the key. namely, if you know what the place you target looks like, and it is within range, you don't need to know where you are.

(ex, you've been rendered unconscious, you wake up in a place you don't know, but definitely don't want to stay in either ... if you can muster the 600 PPE, you can teleport home, even though you don't know where home is, since you don't know where you are)

By that reasoning, and unless some other rule says otherwise (and there isn't any that does) ... the target being mobile and in an unknown location, or even currently moving does not matter at all, so long as you know the apparence and layout of the place you want to go, whether it's the copilot's seat in Spud's Titan Assault bot, or your berth in the group's mobile home. (mega camper/truck/ giant ATV...)

[Zer0 Kay]

You shouldn't be able to teleport into body armor either.

The reason why most of the magic powers will not work on the occupants of a vehicle is because there is no line of site. I believe the book actually says something to that effect. Teleport doesn't require line of site however you must know the exact point of destination which would be impossible in a moving vehicle or one that has moved since the last time you've seen it.

Not teleport into body armor? whew, and I thought I had found a way to suit up nice and quick !!

And I don't agree with you. the spell makes it amply clear that visualisation, not knowing where you are relative to target is the key. namely, if you know what the place you target looks like, and it is within range, you don't need to know where you are.

(ex, you've been rendered unconscious, you wake up in a place you don't know, but definitely don't want to stay in either ... if you can muster the 600 PPE, you can teleport home, even though you don't know where home is, since you don't know where you are)

By that reasoning, and unless some other rule says otherwise (and there isn't any that does) ... the target being mobile and in an unknown location, or even currently moving does not matter at all, so long as you know the apparence and layout of the place you want to go, whether it's the copilot's seat in Spud's Titan Assault bot, or your berth in the group's mobile home. (mega camper/truck/ giant ATV...)

Hmm didn't mean it that way about the BA but that may work better. I ment if someone is wearing it you can't teleport something into it just like you can't teleport something into them.

There are obviously limits I'm sure someone with biology can't use it to teleport a grenade into someones stomach.

So if you visualize third seat in cockpit of Skull Walker. Which Skull Walker are you going to appear in?

If you visualize same as above and their either folding or rotating seats that happen not to be in the same possition you remembered does that mean your going to be hurt if not grusomely killed when you materalize.

If you visualise same as above but instead of in a chair you visualize standing on the floor and someone else is already in the spot do you both die?

Oh and you know exactly where your home is as long as it's not a mobile home. Mine is in 657 Dahlia, Altus OK smack dab in the middle of freakin no place where even the storms avoid. It's kinda cool watching the storms on NOAA its almost eerie how they often seperate and go around.