Lazlo vs. the CS

[jesse04]

Hystrix

are you sure you're mentally sane ? I'm serious.
I'm talking about REAL arguments. You know, in real life.

[dark brandon]

as for lazlo, they would most likely not stay and fight but evacuate their populations. i say this because this is what they tried to incourage tolkeen to do, and as the books say the defenses at lazlo are just slightly less powerful than tolkeen, which means that they certainly couldnt stand up to the cs for very long. this is not the only reason i say this. lazlo would never consider something such as the sorcerers revenge(they are not those kind of people), lazlo doesnt have nearly the same number of dragons or warlocks, and their location is strategically bad.

Remember, tolkeen wasn't initially "evil". I have little doubt in my mind that if CS put the same kind of pressure on Laslo as it did on tolkeen for as long as they had...Lazlo itself would probably resort to much more "shadier" means.

[Hystrix]

Hystrix

are you sure you're mentally sane ? I'm serious.
I'm talking about REAL arguments. You know, in real life.

Oh. When did this stop being a Rifts discussion?

[gelidus]

Yes Lazo would like not to fight and avoid all the deaths. But if they do run will the CS hunt them down to where they rift to? If they do they are in alot more trouble, They do not know the area, they do not have there city to hide in anymore and one your out like that getting togeather ANYTHING including food would be a pain in the ***. If a 6'3 320 lbs black belt was going to kill me no matter what I did. I would fight. Am I going to win? Prolly not. But hey I might get lucky, and I'm dead anyways so what the heck?

[Sureshot]

Hystrix

are you sure you're mentally sane ? I'm serious.
I'm talking about REAL arguments. You know, in real life.

Oh. When did this stop being a Rifts discussion?

When you post stuff life this:

"Uh, I'm sorry, that is not pointless. THere are countless example in other games/books where pilots can't read, but can pilot. Robotech is a great example. The Zentreadi can't read. Neither can the lower level bioroids or invid. Also, have you EVER been inside a SAMAS? No? Well then maybe you arn't aware of how simple/complicated the controls are? Then maybe you have NO IDEA what the qualifications are. I suspect if the pilots can't read there are methods of teaching them how to pilot. Also, have you ever met a PA pilot in real life? No? Well again, you have NO basis other than just saying "pilots have to read. period." Nice try come back again."

You do realize that a)Sams don't exist except in imagination and in the RMB b)Also there are no PA armor pilots in real life at least I have not meet them and c)using the counterargument of the sams controls is strange to say considering once again it's a fictional suit of armor. d)I have yet to meet someone who is in the army who can't read. Sure in Rifts and rpg settings it's not something that is needed but in real life try to get a job without at least a minimal amount of literacy.

[dark brandon]

Yes Lazo would like not to fight and avoid all the deaths. But if they do run will the CS hunt them down to where they rift to? If they do they are in alot more trouble, They do not know the area, they do not have there city to hide in anymore and one your out like that getting togeather ANYTHING including food would be a pain in the ***. If a 6'3 320 lbs black belt was going to kill me no matter what I did. I would fight. Am I going to win? Prolly not. But hey I might get lucky, and I'm dead anyways so what the heck?

Well, If lazlo knows their history, and they probably do, If they move away from an area, say out west, it would take the CS a heck of a long time to reach that area. By then, as with most great nations under dictatorship, they won't have the strenght as they will be too busy trying to keep themselves together (once they lose the common enemie they will turn on themselves).

true, i would do the same if i were in a situation like that.
also, i agree that any evacuation of the population of lazlo would still result in high losses. although i dont think they would go to another dimension(although i think that would be their safest bet), i cant remember which book it was in but it was sugested to tolkeen to rebuild in the west away from the coalition borders. if lazlo tried to do that, not even they would have the capability to safeguard all those people and with the the position of lazlo there arent many ways out.

I always thought that if tolkeen has pooled it's magic resources together, they could have caused all of tolkeen to teleport anywhere in NA. They were near like a whole mess of ley lines and had a whole mess of magic and magic users. I bet lazlo if pushed in the same corner could do this. If anything it would be much simpler to find an area out west that is right for settling, then create a semi-perminent rift...Open enough so builders can go and well, build and when it comes time, the mass migration.

[Hystrix]

You do realize that a)Sams don't exist except in imagination and in the RMB b)Also there are no PA armor pilots in real life at least I have not meet them and c)using the counterargument of the sams controls is strange to say considering once again it's a fictional suit of armor. d)I have yet to meet someone who is in the army who can't read. Sure in Rifts and rpg settings it's not something that is needed but in real life try to get a job without at least a minimal amount of literacy.

Again you are comparing standards of today with a fictional future post-apocoliptic world. In fact according to the RMB, most of the planet is illiterate. Peaople have to make due. So they make complex (as far as enginnering and mechanics are conserned), yet simple (as far as piloting goes) machines to aid them in thier cause... why? Because the CS would have more pilos than engineers; More soldiers than mechanics; More unwashed illiterate masses, than highly educated men. They NEED those who can pilot thier machines of destruction. In order to do so they need to make the controlss of thier war machines easier to learn. It's out of nessesity.

Really, why don't you just argue the whole premise of Rifts Earth?

[dark brandon]

More unwashed illiterate masses, than highly educated men.

You know...most of the people who I knew that stank to high heaven were actually highly educated...

[PigLickJF]

How much longer will people feel the need to argue over something that can not be proven one way or the other?

Well, I can think of a few that have a couple of millennia under their belt with no end in sight, so...

PigLick

[Larsen]

Nice to see Janissary is still in the trenches of arguements trying to bring rationality to the masses. Keep up the good work Jan.

[PigLickJF]

Well, I can think of a few that have a couple of millennia under their belt with no end in sight, so...

A few people or topics?

Topics. I don't know any people more than about eighty years old.

PigLick

[Sureshot]

Again you are comparing standards of today with a fictional future post-apocoliptic world. In fact according to the RMB, most of the planet is illiterate. Peaople have to make due. So they make complex (as far as enginnering and mechanics are conserned), yet simple (as far as piloting goes) machines to aid them in thier cause... why? Because the CS would have more pilos than engineers; More soldiers than mechanics; More unwashed illiterate masses, than highly educated men. They NEED those who can pilot thier machines of destruction. In order to do so they need to make the controlss of thier war machines easier to learn. It's out of nessesity.

Really, why don't you just argue the whole premise of Rifts Earth?

That was not what I was trying to say. Jesse 04 made a good point about pliots needing training and you respond by saying things like "have you ever been in a suit of power armor". You were using stuff written in an rpg to prove a point. After reading what you wrote as an answer it made absloutely no sense at least to me.

As for the CS they went from an illerate bunch of poorly trained soldiers to the equivalent of a modern day army overnight. Considering the equipment in the CS they need to have some minimal literacy. At least the pilots and the officers. Plus you don't want to make the controls too easy to use or else anybody can take your mecha and use it against you.

Finally why would I want to argue the premise of Rifts Earth. I have better things to do with my time.

[Borast]

Maybe they were trying to hit 100 posts?

[Hystrix]

That was not what I was trying to say. Jesse 04 made a good point about pliots needing training and you respond by saying things like "have you ever been in a suit of power armor". You were using stuff written in an rpg to prove a point. After reading what you wrote as an answer it made absloutely no sense at least to me.

As for the CS they went from an illerate bunch of poorly trained soldiers to the equivalent of a modern day army overnight. Considering the equipment in the CS they need to have some minimal literacy. At least the pilots and the officers. Plus you don't want to make the controls too easy to use or else anybody can take your mecha and use it against you.

Finally why would I want to argue the premise of Rifts Earth. I have better things to do with my time.

You can get training w/o being literate. I really think literacy is less involved in this equation than you think. But my "have you ever been in a PA suit" is a good one as well. See, none of us have. Yet you and Jesse are saying these absolute statments about things that are fictional. Yes I understand that things should be complicated, but then again we are talking about power armor, which responds to the movements of the pilot. Fighter jets don't.

If you can't read, can you still walk? If the answer is yes, then maybe PA piloting is more about dextarity than literacy. I admit that a literate pilot may have an advantage over one who is illiterate. However, to say that you CANT pilot something that is fictional, that you, nor I have ever been in, and we really no little about in the real world is silly. It's called a universal negitive.

[LDMcFear™]

Okay first of all from what i garner from this post is Are PA pilots Literate or do they need to be in order to Pilot the PA. The Answer is no.

The reason for this is simple. Like Hystrix points out PA is an extension of the pilot, almost like a second skin and it responds to the pilot like your body responds to you. However you can argue that they need to read in order to use there weapons and navigation sustems, this is also not the case the whole suit could work off voice recognition are thought recognition. the heads up display could be totaly made up of informational pictures instead of words and numbers, hell the onboard computer could "tell" the information you need simply by asking for it. Eample...

SAMAS Pilot: "Range to Target"
ARMOR: "2340 Meters"
SAMAS Pilot: Speed to Target"
ARMOR: 340 Mph"
SAMAS Pilot: "How much ammo do I have left"
ARMOR: "400 Rounds"

Do you see what i mean. heel even ammo load could be displayed by a HUD graph indicating how much ammo remained.

Hell Training pilots would be simple to. Just explaining to them how the voice or thought recognition or HUD works, and through constant practice the pilots would be good to go.

[Sureshot]

You make an excellant point LDMcFear™. I never thought about it that way. Your explanation makes more sense than Hystrix one does. It also goes a long way to explain how the Coalition can have so many illiterate soldiers. Too bad it's never ever really explained in the books. Than again a lot of stuff is not.

I never ever said my statements were absolute Hystrix. You labelled them as such. Please stop that I don't really appreciate it. Why I don't know but you did. As you can see from what I wrote above I can admit that what I write is not absolute and that I can be wrong sometimes. I have yet to see you do that.

[LDMcFear™]

You make an excellant point LDMcFear™. I never thought about it that way. Your explanation makes more sense than Hystrix one does. It also goes a long way to explain how the Coalition can have so many illiterate soldiers. Too bad it's never ever really explained in the books. Than again a lot of stuff is not.

Thanks

Yeah it would be nice if KS could outline this more in detail, but hey we can't leave all the imagination up to him, then it wouldn't be fun anymore. But I'm glad I could help try clear this up or at least put it in a new perspective that can work

[Hystrix]

You make an excellant point LDMcFear™. I never thought about it that way. Your explanation makes more sense than Hystrix one does. It also goes a long way to explain how the Coalition can have so many illiterate soldiers. Too bad it's never ever really explained in the books. Than again a lot of stuff is not.

I never ever said my statements were absolute Hystrix. You labelled them as such. Please stop that I don't really appreciate it. Why I don't know but you did. As you can see from what I wrote above I can admit that what I write is not absolute and that I can be wrong sometimes. I have yet to see you do that.

How is this not clear?

I said:

Yes I understand that things should be complicated, but then again we are talking about power armor, which responds to the movements of the pilot. Fighter jets don't.

And yes saying that you can't pilot Power Armor without being able to read is kind of an absolute... However, I understand I could have missunderstood you, but that's what it sounded like...

Though I do concide that McFear did a better job of explaining it than did... oh well...

[Sureshot]

You make an excellant point LDMcFear™. I never thought about it that way. Your explanation makes more sense than Hystrix one does. It also goes a long way to explain how the Coalition can have so many illiterate soldiers. Too bad it's never ever really explained in the books. Than again a lot of stuff is not.

I never ever said my statements were absolute Hystrix. You labelled them as such. Please stop that I don't really appreciate it. Why I don't know but you did. As you can see from what I wrote above I can admit that what I write is not absolute and that I can be wrong sometimes. I have yet to see you do that.

How is this not clear?

I said:

Yes I understand that things should be complicated, but then again we are talking about power armor, which responds to the movements of the pilot. Fighter jets don't.

And yes saying that you can't pilot Power Armor without being able to read is kind of an absolute... However, I understand I could have missunderstood you, but that's what it sounded like...

Though I do concide that McFear did a better job of explaining it than did... oh well...

I have said All I wanted to say on this subject. Hysterix. I consider this conversation over. Feel free to post on the subject I will not answer.