Temporalmage wrote:Killer Cyborg wrote:I'll just ask your opinion, then.
So you think that the rule makes any sense at all?
Since you've asked for my opinion I'll give it to you. Depends on the situation. I've said once or twice on this topic that I personally have allowed players in my games to teleport into robots, vehicles, etc. As long as it's one of thier own that they've had for a while. I would never allow someone to teleport a fusion block into a robot, or power armor to make an easy kill though. Nor would I allow players to abuse teleportation, or any spell for that matter.
I would definitely allow somebody to teleport a fusion block into a robot or power armor for an easy kill.
If they could pull it off, which is unlikely.
For one thing, right off the bat, even if they are 100% familiar with the place that they are trying to send the fusion block, there's still a chance that it won't work. Not a big chance (20% failure initially), but still a chance. If the teleportation fails, then the object being teleported could be anywhere within the range of the spell (5 miles per level). It could be just outside the vehicle, it could appear in a crowded bar a mile away, it could harmlessly explode 3 mile up in the sky, or it could appear in the caster's backpack.
For another thing, how are they going to consider the cockpit of an enemy vehicle to be a "known" location? The only way I'd allow it is if they had actually been inside that particular vehicle before (never steal a mage's car, BTW). If the caster has line of sight into the vehicle's cockpit, then he could count the location as "known" (he's looking right at it), but most combat vehicles in my game have tinted windows (Certainly all CS vehicles do). Meanwhile, while he's trying to peep in the window and spending 7.5 seconds trying to get line of sight, the vehicle gets to SHOOT HIM. This is likely to disrupt his concentration. If he's trying to see into a robot vehicle, he is likely to be shot at least 3 times before he gets the spell off (which he probably won't, since he'd getting shot).
I'll list off a few more things:
-The damage on a basic fusion block is 1d4x10. That's not going to bust most armor anyway. It may kill the GB Pilot suit (50% chance), but since you can't see into the armor anyway it doesn't really matter. The mid-grade fusion block does 2d6x10 MD, which will destroy most armor from the main book rather easily, but Heavy Deadboy might well survive and the newer CS armor would be tough to kill this way. The Heavy fusion block does 4d6x10 MD, which will toast pretty much any body armor, but as I said; good luck teleporting it inside. Besides, they cost 8000 CR a pop. Where I come from, that's money that the PCs probably don't want to waste unless they have to. Oh, and they could always use multiple Fusion Blocks, but if they're going to do that then they could likely blow up the armor from the outside anyway, so the teleporation is a moot point.
-As for teleporting yourself inside a vehicle, again I say "Good Luck". As with Teleport: Lesser, you have to know where you're going. Well, you could try to teleport into a vehicle based on limited knowledge (A brief description), but that's a 20% chance of success. I'm not woried.
Really, what you should be truly worried about is something that your much-quoted passage makes worse rather than better.
A suit of Glitterboy Armor weighs 1.2 tons, approximately 2400 lbs if my math is right. A mage can teleport himself and 1000 lbs per level using Teleport: Superior.
So if he's within 20' of the Glitterboy and manages to teleport away, he can take the GB armor with him! Same with any other vehicle, bot, or PA that is within his weight limit.
You're probably thinking "But the pilots would just go along with the armor.... The mage would get killed."
Nope.
As you like to point out, magic cannot penetrate vehicles. The spell would only be able to target the vehicle, not the pilots.
As you like to point out.
As for the rule I've quoted I've used it a few times, such as when characters wish to cast "fear" on robot pilots they can see. Just as an example that came up last weekend. If I as a GM puts the party against an enemy such as a robot or giant vehicle, I expect the party to combat it with conventional spell casting, or unconventional thinking. Not by trying the easy way out by teleporting in and slicing the pilots throat, or using teleporting grenades/fusion blocks. That kind or roleplaying would have serious concequences in any gaming world. And my players know that. I always remind them that whatever they can do, the NPC's can do also. How many times could a player do the things I've listed above before the enemy did the same to them. And how messed up would that be to look the player in the eye and say, "sorry, the fuision block timer is at 2 seconds when in 'pops' into your lap. Your dead."
Turnabout is fair play.
I've got nothing against turning the PCs tricks against them.
That's the thing about being a GM; if they want to play with cheap and easy kills, then I can play that way too. And they're more invested in their characters than I am in my NPCs.
I have argued this topic for this long for two reasons. The first is how the rules read, and the inclusion of "all magic". But you've all heard that part of my argument many times and I'll not bore you with it again. But the second reason is this: If you/we/me as GM's or players, allow an opening in those rules that say "no magic" by allowing teleport to work. How would you justify a spell that common sense dictated couldn't work, but didn't specifically say wouldnt'. Do ya understand? There must be a line drawn in the sand somewhere that say's "this will work but this won't". And I believe that line is the rule I've quoted so often. Unless a spell specifically negates that rule then it shouldn't work through robots or giant vehicles. Though each GM can interpret what makes a vehicle a giant in his own fasion.
I've already listed a bunch of reasons why teleporting into enemy vehicles wouldn't work. Between that and the fact that most spells already say that they can't penetrate vehicles, there is no need for the specific rule that magic can't penentrate vehicles.
Especially since one of Palladium's biggest problems is that they keep introducing poorly thought-out rules into a once great game.
Now if only you could get your information right!! 
but you're cool in book 
I am sorry, but I could swear that there was a type of teleport spell that specifically mentioned what it could or could not pass through. Swap places is not what I thought. I'm actually a bit embarassed here, and a little surprised that you yourself didn't catch that faux pas and rub it in my face. 
Unfortunatly that places our argument back to where it was a few pages ago.
